You are here: Home / Visa Stuff / The Thailand Retirement Visa Guide

The Thailand Retirement Visa Guide

This post will provide you with all the information you need to obtain your retirement visa, and answer all the nagging questions to which you have seen conflicting answers for all over the Internet.

Let's get started.

What is a Retirement Visa?

In truth, there is no such thing as a retirement visa, per se. However, when we talk about a retirement visa, we refer to it as such because people applying are generally retirees intending to spend their retirement in Thailand.

Moreover, you can't work on this type of visa, so it's generally for those who've stopped work and entered the sunny side of life.

What most refer to as a retirement visa is officially known as an extension of stay based on retirement.

The way the extension of stay based on retirement is obtained is by entering Thailand on a Non Immigrant O Visa, which we will discuss a little later, and then by obtaining the retirement extension from an immigration office – provided you meet the requirements.

Retire in Thailand, enjoy the good life.

What Are the Retirement Visa Requirements?

There are three key requirements, as follows:

  • You must be over 50 years old
  • You must have a monthly income of 65,000 Thai Baht or more
  • Or,  ฿800,000 in a Thai bank account for 60 days+ before applying for the extension. And ฿800,000 remaining for 3 months after the extension, and ฿400,000 thereafter. 

The ฿800,000 must be in the bank for at least 2 months before your visa application.

As of 1st March, 2019, the ฿800,000 must also remain in your bank for 3 months after the extension, and, after those 3 months, you must keep ฿400,000 in there indefinitely. 

You also need a letter from your Thai bank to confirm the ฿800,000 is there and has been there for the required time frame. 

Note that you need a letter from your bank verifying the balance and a copy of your bank book.

Note that you can also use foreign currency, but the money must be the equivalent of ฿800,000 Baht.

There are a number of banks offering foreign currency accounts, but you must make sure that the amount you have in there equals the requirement for the extension of stay: exchange rates fluctuate throughout the year, and this may leave you short if you don't monitor it.

=> Read more about opening a Thai bank account here.

Instead of having ฿800,000 in a bank account, you can show an income of ฿65,000 per month, without having to bring the money into Thailand.

For those who don't want to tie up such a large amount of money in what essentially will be a zero interest account, it may be preferable to use this requirement, particularly if you have a steady pension income, or income from investments. 

You will need to provide details of this income over a three-month period, by way of bank statements and through a notarized letter from your embassy that verifies the monthly income. 

New Rules for UK and US Nationals

British and US nationals are no longer able to obtain a letter from their respective embassies to confirm that they have a pension income or other income of the required ฿65,000 amount.

This means that nationals of these countries will have to go down the route of having ฿800,000 in a Thai bank account, or they must have the ฿65,000 income paid into a Thai bank account each month and prove this by way of a 12-month bank statement history.

This is problematic for those who have not held a bank account for 12 months. It is therefore likely that British and US nationals will have to go down the 800k lump sum route, at least for the first year anyway.

On the plus side, money transfers to a Thai bank account are relatively cheap these days (see the link below).

=> Learn the cheapest way to send money to Thailand

* It is expected that other embassies will follow suit and stop issuing income letters too. I will update this article as and when this happens.

What If I Don't Meet the Financial Requirements?

Perhaps you don't have an ฿800,000 lump sum of money to put in a Thai bank account, or a monthly income of ฿65,000. In this case you can still meet the financial requirements by combining the two. 

For example, let's say that you earn 50,000 a month. That would equal ฿600,000 a year.

In this case you would only need to deposit ฿200,000 in your Thai bank account to make up the required ฿800,000. However, you would need to provide both the letter from the bank and the proof of income letter from your embassy

(British and US nationals are currently unable to obtain this income letter). 

What Documents Do I Need for a Retirement Visa?

To obtain the extension based on retirement, you will need to attend an immigration office, such as the office located at the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Bangkok. On the day you will need 5 things, as follows:

  1. Passport with Non Immigrant O Visa inside. Photocopies of: photo page of passport, page showing visa, page showing last entry date into Thailand.
  2. TM.7 (extension of stay form completed and signed). Attach a passport photo and include phone number by your signature.
  3. Departure Card (TM.6) (make a photocopy)
  4. 2 passport size photos
  5. Proof of funds and or proof of income (letter from bank/embassy). Bank letter cannot be more than 3 days old. If using the lump sum application route, you'll need an updated photocopy of your bank book page that shows the balance. Obviously take your bank book along too.
  6. Proof of address (copies of rental agreement, and utility bills (if you have them))
  7. Application fee of ฿1,900 THB

*Sign all photocopies. 

90-Day Reporting

Once you have your retirement visa,  there are two important rules that you must follow to ensure that you do not overstay your visa or invalidate your visa.

  1. You must conduct 90 day reporting. This means you must report to an immigration office in Thailand every 90 days.  This is because Thailand has a law that states that a foreign national must produce his/her address if staying in the kingdom for 89 or more days. The address is reported on a TM48 form.
  2. Perhaps the most common mistake foreign nationals make when living in Thailand on a retirement visa is leaving the country without getting a re-entry permit. A re-entry permit can be obtained from an immigration office or the airport before leaving the country.

This permit will be stamped in your passport and protects your visa from  expiring while you are outside of the country. If you do not get a re-entry permit, then your visa will be invalidated and when you re-enter Thailand you will get a standard 30 day exemption stamp.

As noted, you can obtain a re-entry permit as you are leaving the country. However, if you are able to plan in advance, it may be better to get one a few days before you leave to ensure that you get it done in time and don't miss your flight if you are in a rush to the airport. The re-entry permit form is known as TM13.

I have written extensively about the re-entry permit in this post here.

How to Renew Your Retirement Visa

Your retirement visa (extension of stay based on retirement) will last for one year. But don't wait until that year is almost up before you start planning to renew it. In fact, you can renew your visa up to 45 days before it expires.

Remember that you need to ensure that your Thai bank account balance does not fall below the ฿800,000 threshold three months prior to renewing your visa. 

Also consider that if you need a proof of income letter from your embassy, you should plan this at least a few weeks before you apply for your visa.

Some embassies require you to make an appointment and they may be busy at the time you apply. Don't worry though, the letter from your embassy will be valid for six months, so is perfectly fine to obtain the letter up to a couple of months before you need to renew your visa.

Rules for Those Retiring with a Spouse (Dependent)

It may be the case that you're a foreign couple who want to retire to Thailand. In this situation, there are two possibilities for obtaining the visa:

  • Each partner obtains a retirement visa by following the financial requirements laid out above: that is ฿800,000 in a Thai bank account two months prior to applying; or proof of ฿65,000 income per month, as verified by your embassy; or a combination of the two.
  • One of you obtains a retirement visa and the other receives a visa as his/her dependent.  The visa holder is generally the male party.

The easiest route is for you to both independently get visas. One reason for this is that if the main visa holder were to pass away then the dependent's visa would be immediately void.

This could be problematic because it would  present you with a visa issue to overcome at a time when you would be going through a lot of grief and having to sort out a lot of other things in your life.

In this situation, you could essentially leave the country and come back in on a 30-day exemption stamp, or get a tourist visa from a Thai embassy in a neighbouring country. But this still might not give you the time you need to get all your affairs in order and take care of probate.

It sounds quite morbid, but it is worth considering – because at a time like this you would not want the hassle of sorting out visa issues.

The other reason to avoid going down the dependent visa route is that Thai immigration has moved the goalposts on this visa are a couple of times over the last decade. Both times they have reverted back to the original rules, but it can cause confusion and be problematic.

In the case of a dependent, immigration requires the financial aspect of the extension to be provided by the male party and not through a joint bank account.

Similarly, if you are using a letter from your embassy to prove your income to extend your visa, this must solely be in the man's name and not in joint names. In other words, the income is verified as the man's income and not a joint income.

It is also worth noting that if you are seeking to obtain a dependent visa for your spouse and your spouse is not yet 50 years old, your spouse must enter Thailand on a Non-Immigrant O Visa.

This is because a 30-day on arrival stamp cannot be converted into a Non-Immigrant O Visa inside Thailand, if you are not yet 50 and seeking an extension based on retirement. 

Getting Your Non Immigrant O Visa

The most common pathway to getting the extension based on retirement is to obtain a Non Immigrant O Visa (90 day validity) from your home country before you arrive Thailand.

You can obtain this visa in Thailand, but then that's an extra step that you will have to go through with immigration before applying for your extension of stay based on retirement. It really isn't difficult to get from your home country either, so it is advisable that you do this.

Here are the requirements for the UK Thai Embassy. Please note that requirements may differ slightly from country to country.

  • Visa application form
  • Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months and at least 2 blank pages, as well as the photocopy of passport. The actual passport must be submitted with visa application form.
  • Two (2) recent photos (taken within the past 6 months)
  • Supporting documents for the purpose of visit to Thailand. (Please see details for each type.)
  • A copy of pension statement if the applicant is a pensioner, or a copy of 1-month bank statement showing your income from pension, or 3-month bank statement of at least £10,000 

Once you have your Non Immigrant O Visa,  you can enter Thailand and stay for 90 days. You will have to wait 60 days before you can file your retirement visa application at the immigration office and follow the steps laid out in this post.

Getting a Retirement Visa (O-A) Instead

You should also know that you can obtain a long-stay visa (generally known as a retirement visa) inside your home country. It's known as an O-A visa.

Rather than include all the details in this post and confuse the two options, I wrote a separate post on this. 

In a nutshell, there's more paperwork involved and it requires you to have a specific insurance policy. Though it does have some benefits that the extension we have discussed here doesn't have.

+ Read more on the O-A visa here

Have I missed anything? Still got a question? Leave it in the comments below.

More Tips for a Better Life in Thailand

Send Money to Thailand:

Use Transferwise. It is fast, cheap, and gives you the market exchange rate. Me and the majority of my readers are using it.

Get Good Health Insurance:

Start with a quick quote from Cigna. Then compare my other recommendations here.

Improve Your Thai Skills:

Learning Thai makes life here easier and more fun. I use Thaipod101. It is free to get started & easy to use.

Protect Your Online Privacy:

A VPN protects you against hackers and government snooping. I always use one. You should too. Read why here.

Comments Sort by : newest | oldest

  1. Simon says

    Good afternoon and a Happy New Year to all.
    I have 2 questions, please, on the 'Non Immigrant O Visa (90 day validity)' applied from in the UK (which is where I am located).
    1. For how long is it valid from its date of issue? That is if, for example, I get the visa on 1 February this year, dated 1 February this year, then within what time frame do I have to use it and get on a flight to Thailand? A week, a month, three months or what?
    2. Entirely seperately, is this first 'Non Immigrant O Visa (90 day validity)' a single-entry visa or can I request a multiple entry visa instead in my initial visa application?
    Thank you again in advance for any help on these issues (especially Question 1).
    Reply

    • Max says

      1) It's valid 3 months.
      2) The 90 days Non-immigrant O is a single entry visa because the whole idea is to extend it 1 year or leave the country after 90 days counting from the day of entry. When having a multi entry 90 days visa, you must leave the country every 90 (actually 89) days.
      Reply

  2. Simon says

    Hi there: a quick question on something raised in your editorial above, to which I cannot find the answer.
    As background, I am looking to follow your advice on the 'retirement' visa and go initially on the 90-day Non-Immigrant O Visa (with 90 days validity) and then convert it when there to the one-year OA visa (I am 55, have the British passport, £10,000+ in a personal bank account, have the visa application form, have two recent photos).
    HOWEVER, you say here that you need 'supporting documents for the purpose of your visit' and say to see details later but I can't find them.
    QUESTION: what supporting document/s do I need if I am going there to retire?
    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Reply

    • JamesE says

      You've got a couple of things wrong. First, you don't convert the Non-O (Retirement) into an O-A, you extend it for a year. The O-A is only available for issue in your home country. Second, the financial requirements for the extension are much higher than £10,000 - more like 19,200 at today's exchange rate. Plus, that amount has to be in a Thai bank account for at least two months before you go for your extension. Read through the comments (particularly Max's) as there has been a lot of discussion about this.
      Reply

    • Max says

      Simon, you're not converting your visa when going for the 1 year extension based on a 90 days Non-immigrant O at the local immigration office. You're just extending your stay, and it's not an O-A. About documents, just check out the requirements on the UK embassy website if you need proof of being retired when applying for the 90 days Non-immigrant O visa based on retirement.
      Reply

    • Robert Morton says

      You are a bit confused. If your intention is to get the Retirement in Thailand, you may arrive either Visa Exempt (currently 45-days), or on a 60-day Tourist Visa. Then, immediately after your arrival, you must haul arse to open a Thai Bank Account, and transfer 800,000 Baht into Thai Bank Account. Then, you apply for a 90-day Non-O Visa at local Thai Immigration Office. If on Visa Exempt, you use Form TM87, if on Tourist Visa TM86. You are required to apply with minimum 15-21 days remaining on permitted Stay, depending on Office (Chiang Mai, requires 21 days). Requirments: TM87 or TM86 (stated purpose: "For Retirement"), 2000 Baht, Copy of all relevant pages of Passport (i.e. Facepage, and Entry Stamp); copy of TM30 (that is the required arrival form that is either completed by your Hotel or Condo, or you do yourself at Immig. Office w/i 24 hrs of arrival); copy of proof of residency (Rental Agreement, or Hotel Reservation -- some offices may not allow if only staying at a HOtel); and most importantly proof of the money in Bank (Copy of Bank Book, and a certified Letter from the Bank usually costing 100 Baht). Above is all simple and straightforward, so no need for spending money on a Visa Service. If all docs. in order, Immig. Office will put a Sticker in your Passport that you are "under consideration", and a date to return to pick up your Visa Stamp (prior to your Stay expiration). Next, when you have 30 days remaining on the Non-O (and your Bank Money has "seeded" 60 days -- i.e. stayed on deposit), you go back to Immig. Office to apply for the 1-yr Retirement Extension. Requirements.: TM7 (Req. for Extension of Stay); 1900 Baht, and all other same docs. as above (newly updated of course). And, you will receive 1-yr Extension of Stay -- usually same day, if you arrive in morning. Note: For both processes above, your Bank Passbook Balance must be updated same date as application, and the Bank Letter should be no more than 7 days old -- easiest just to do both same day just before going to Immig. Office). Finally, you should/must get a Re-Entry Stamp -- easiest/best to just do immediately after you get your 1-yr. Extension stamp. It can be single Re-Entry for 1000 Baht, or 3800 Baht for unlimited multiple Re-Entry. The Re-Entry Stamp allows you to leave and return to Thailand, without invalidating your 1-yr Extension. If you fail to do that, then your Extension of Stay is nullified, and you must start the process again. (Also, if you want or need to leave Thailand while on the initial 90-Day Non-O, same thing -- must get Re-Entry Stamp.). Hope that is all clear.
      Reply

      • Max says

        Robert, I think you're abit confused as well. Arriving on a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement is a third option. It's doable and works fine as long as you open a Thai bank account straight away and transfer the 800k. That's the only critical part and you don't need any changes from visa exempts or tourist visas to a 90 days Non-immigrant O visa. Just one application for the 1 year extension.
        Reply

        • Simon says

          Yes, and once you arrive on that Non Immigrant O Visa with 90 days attached to it you have 30 days to find and open a Thai Bank account because, to apply for the extension when in Thailand, you need to show THB800,000 in your account for the previous 60 days ONLY, not 90 days, right? Although, obviously opening one asap is a priority anyhow.
          Reply

          • Max says

            The 800k "must" be in your account 2 months prior to the day you apply for the 1 year extension. This is not negotiable at immigration. You don't have 30 days to open a bank account and transfer the money. Just do the math.
            Reply

            • Simon says

              You wrote in November the following, a direct quote: 'If you arrive on a 90 days Non-immigrant O, then you have up to 30 days to open an account and transfer money from back home.'
              I think we are quibbling over days here.
              The point seems to be that there is some breathing room to open an account. As you also put, you need to find an address that is not a hotel and so on, so it is tight, but it does not need to be done the second I step off the plane. That was all I was saying.
              Reply

              • JamesE says

                Max's key words are: "up to". Every day you dawdle on the front end is a day you've removed on the back end to handle any unforeseen delays (which there will be), or requests for extra documents (which there will be) or having a run of bad luck finding a bank branch to open your account or find a place to live (which there may likely be). So, yeah, you have 30 days but only if you are feeling really, really lucky.
                Reply

        • Robert Morton says

          Max, I am NOT confused at all. I provided clear and absolutely accurate information and instructions, for arriving Visa Exempt &/or Tourist Visa, and the process for obtaining Retirement Stay thereafter: i.e. Change/Conversion to 90-Day Non-O; and then the final 1-yr Retirement Extension. I fully understood OP's initial suggestion to first get the Non-O Outside the Country. But, believe that is not the easiest nor best course of action. I prefer the IN-Country Method, because it does not require Medical or Criminal Check. Following my Instructions, is guaranteed to succeed at any Immigration Office; and as noted is not difficult. (I also understood and agree with both you and James, that OP was confused with reference to "O-A").
          Reply

          • Max says

            You wrote there were only 2 options. But there are 3. I know a lot of people arriving on a 90 days Non-immigrant O based on retirement that opened an account the first week. Everything is about planning and a bit know-how. IF you don't know where to stay when you arrive, it might be tight when it comes to time. As I said, opening the bank account is the only tricky part,BUT if picking the correct bank, in my opinion Bangkok Bank, it's still doable. The location is also important, because bank branches in Thailand don't work the same way and they don't care the least about changed requirements,they follow the ones they've followed for years. Meaning, many Bangkok Bank branches still prefers the Resident Certificate from immigration, and it works perfectly. Believe me, my branch works that way. Another way is to go a big mall or two and try banks there, they are well known for not following requirements,and people are still reporting about being able to open accounts when on tourist visas.
            Reply

            • Robert Morton says

              Max, I did NOT say "there are only 2 Options". I merely provided clear and totally accurate information & instructions for obtaining Retirement Stay upon arrival with Visa Exempt or Tourist. Of course, I understand that another option is to apply for Non-O outside Thailand at a Thai Embassy/Consulate. BUT, in my opinion, it is better/best option to do it the way I suggested, so as to avoid the necessity of Medical & Criminal Check. True, you are given a little bit more time to open Bank Account if you apply for the Non-O outside of Thailand, but I don't think an extra week or so is a big deal, and still enough time to do it my way, as many including myself have done successfully many times. FYI -- There's also a 4th Option you neglected to mention: Applying for an O-A Visa outside of Thailand, to get 1 yr stay (that can be "stretched" to 2 years), and then thereafter following my instructions for further 1-yr extensions. But, again, I do NOT recommend, for same reasons above, as well as additional requirement of Medical Insurance for O-A Visas. Now Max, kindly stop being so argumentative (and apparently defensive). You are not the only one around who has good advice to give to people about Thai Visa stuff.
              Reply

            • Robert Morton says

              James, you are correct that no Medical nor Criminal Check req'd for Non-O outside Thailand (only for O-A/X). My bad. BUT, for Non-O outside country you ARE required to get Health Insurance for duration of your Stay, which is still an additional expense / hassle you don't have when applying In-Country. And, as mentioned I do understand that applying outside country provides a little more time to open your Thai Bank Acct., deposit money and obtain docs. But, I say still simple and easy to apply inside Thailand, and still sufficient time to get it done provided you "haul arse" as I originally advised. That being said, our Moderator/Host Peter is right, we are all basically "on the same page". Several Options, and everyone has to decide for themselves what works best.
              Reply

  3. John says

    May have been dealt with already but I cannot find any info on whether the income option of 65000 baht a month for an over 50 extension of stay MUST be sourced from a pension or can you remit deposits from overseas from savings accumulated from interest and rental income. I do not receive a pension
    Reply

    • Max says

      Officially,the source of the 65k/month deposits must be from pension. People than can obtain income letters from embassies or consulates,must show those letters when extending their stay, and they don't have to transfer money monthly. Expats,though, from the US,UK and Australia might have to show proof (again officially) of the source of those 65k plus getting 12 months bank statements from their Thai banks when extending their stay. These are official requirements since January 1, 2019.
      Reply

  4. Paul Haynes says

    Hi l am in the UK and wish to get O/A visa can some advise on company that evisa will except is it only Thai company l do not want to buy the compulsory insurance for it to be rejected on the e visa site .Is there a list perhaps and l have to choose. Many Thanks
    Reply

    • Max says

      Why do you want an O-A Visa? Why not go for a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement and extend it another year at the local immigration office. No health insurance is needed for the 1 year extension,just for the first 90 days.
      Reply

        • Max says

          Paul, you don't need an insurance when on an initial 90 days Non-immigrant O visa when extending it another year in Thailand. Only O-A and O-X visas requires an insurance. Going for an O-A is not a smart choice especially when the insurance,from October 1 this year,must cover $100,000 or 3 million baht.
          Reply

        • JamesE says

          Do you need insurance for the visa or for actually using? The requirement for "retirement visas" is only for the length of time you will be stamped into the country for. Using Max's plan the O - Retirement only requires 90-days of insurance coverage as that's the length of time you will be stamped in for. Your one-year extension will fall under different rules so no insurance is required. Getting an O-A visa will get you stamped into Thailand for a full year, so that's how long your policy has to be valid for. As TTL says you can get a cheap policy to meet these requirements. However, if you want a policy that provides actual coverage that you can use, then you're free to pick whatever policy you want even if it doesn't meet Thailand's requirements. If it covers your visa requirements, fine. If not just get a minimum policy through Mr. Prakan to meet the visa req's and keep your preferred policy for actual medical needs.
          Reply

          • Max says

            If anyone needs an insurance that actually works in real life,you just stay away from expensive private hospitals in places like Phuket,Bangkok and Pattaya. That way you don't need an insurance with a very high coverage. There are a lot of very good government hospitals in Thailand where the costs are up to 50% less compared to very expensive hospitals. That means an insurance doesn't have to cover 3 million baht which is a ridiculously high sum. The worst problem with Thai insurances,in my opinion, is the annual cost when you are 66 years of age or older. From 66 years of age you are considered "over aged" which is a term insurance companies uses, and the annual cost suddenly gets much higher. Then every 5 year it gets higher and higher.
            Reply

    • JamesE says

      Paul, Max is correct on the best way to proceed. However, if you still wanted an O-A (to avoid the Thai bank requirement and keep your funds in the UK, for example) the rules are pretty clear: the insurance has to be issued by a Thai company (they're all approved) or by a foreign company who will complete the form stating that your coverage is valid in Thailand. When I ran into this with the COVID insurance I used a foreign policy underwritten by AXA - which does have a Thai subsidiary - and which provided me with a policy statement that included all the info, stamps, and signatures that would need to be on the Thai form. It was accepted for visa and immigration/public health no problem.
      Reply

  5. Gary Williams says

    My wife is Thai and i want to remain in Thailand with her. I am presently in the U.S. and as i understand it i should apply for a O-Retirement visa here in the U.S. before coming to Thailand. This requires i have 800,000 baht in bank in the U.S. with a letter from my bank stating i do have this amount in the bank. Also with this visa i am not required to have a health insurance policy ? Where do i obtain the application form for this visa ? Is there any other requirements to receive this visa ?
    Reply

    • JamesE says

      Almost, but not quite. You can get the O-Retirement (a 90-day visa) with the requirements here: https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/nonoretirement/ Once you get to Thailand you have one month (a minimum of two months before the "until" date stamped in your passport) to deposit ฿800,000 in a Thai bank account in your name only. Then, two months after you put the money in the bank, you can apply for an extension of stay based on retirement. The extension gives you one year's stay in Thailand (with the 90-day report requirement). So, if you arrived on Sunday, January 1, 2023 you would be permitted to stay until Friday, March 31, 2023 (90 days). You would have to have your deposit done no later than Tuesday, January 31, 2023 (two months before your permission to stay ends) so that you can go to immigration and apply for your extension. The mixing of days (permission to stay) and months (bank account requirements) is a bit confusing. Just do that ASAP. The O visa comes with a minor insurance requirement for the 90 days you will be stamped in on arrival. After you extend the insurance requirement goes away. There is no application form anymore, it's all done online through the eVisa system (the link is in the page on the Thai Embassy's website I posted above).
      Reply

  6. Eric says

    Hi - if I understood this correctly, then the easiest approach for me to get a retirement visa would be to apply now for a non-immigrant O visa (ie also taking out a 90 days Thai health insurance and apply via e-visa here in Hong Kong), await confirmation via email, and then - after arriving in Thailand in Jan - open a local bank account, deposit 800k THB, wait 2 months, get the bank's confirmation and then apply in Bangkok for the extension based on retirement.

    My question: the e-visa application seems to allow multiple entry for non-immigrant O visa, so that means that I can leave Thailand and return as I please during that 90 days time window, or is there something I should be careful about, any pitfalls out there?
    Reply

    • Max says

      After 60 days into your 90 days Non-immigrant O you can apply for the 1 year extension. The 800k must be transferred from abroad and be in your account 2 months prior to the day of application.
      You need a bank letter from your bank to show a minimum of 800k and to verify it's your account. You have to get the letter the day (the latest) before you apply for the extension. About the multi entry 90 days Non-immigrant O visa. Your can stay up to 90 days and then you must leave and then you're able to re-enter. You should go for the single entry 90 days Non-immigrant O if you're going to extend your stay 1 year based on retirement . If you want to leave when you're on the 1 year extension, you just pay 1,000 baht for a re-entry permit at the local immigration office or at the airport.
      Reply

      • Eric says

        Thanks, Max. I will have to go back to Hong Kong regularly, so might choose the multiple entry version of non-immigrant O visa initially (for the 90 days period).

        Any views on the insurance? I looked at some links here but they all seem more suitable for longer term personal health (whereas I probably just need something for 90 days to meet the visa requirement when applying from outside Thailand)
        Reply

    • Ron says

      Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but can't you avoid a lot of headaches and having to purchase insurance if you do the following?

      Arrive on a 45 day visa exemption

      Open a bank account bringing the required documentation such as proof of passport, residency, lease agreement, address, enough money for a deposit, and preferably a Thai speaker.

      Transfer money into that bank account (800000 but). That transfer needs to show the money came from outside of Thailand

      If you need more time, exit and re-enter on another visa exemption.

      Then apply for a non-o 90 day visa to avoid the insurance requirements.

      Then after 60 days apply for a one year extension.

      Then continue extending into the future. I've forgotten how many days you should apply for an extension prior to the current extension expiring. Hopefully someone here can fill in the blank of the matter
      Reply

      • TheThailandLife says

        You can open a bank account and deposit your money in those 45 days but you have to reside in Thailand for 60 days before applying for a Non O Visa. I'm not sure if doing a 30-day extension would count in this regard; it would be up to immigration. The easiest route is a Non 0 Visa, single entry, which doesn't require insurance at most Thai embassies.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          Having said that, I was just reading around and came across one visa company that says you can change from a visa on arrival to a Non Immigrant O Visa (90 day), so perhaps you can do as you said. Maybe Max or James have experience with this.
          Reply

            • Max says

              Eric,read my post where I described the procedure. You don't need any assistance from an agent or lawyer. You can change from a 60 days tourist visa or from a visa exempt to a 90 days Non-immigrant O at the local immigration office. Cost: 2,000 baht. The procedure is quite straightforward. You need 800k (international transfer) in a Thai bank account the day you apply for the change and same amount 2 months prior to the day you apply for the 1 year extension. The bank account is the most important thing and it has to be done as soon as possible. If you need more time than 45 days, you just extend the stay another 30 days at immigration. It means you only have 15 days to open the bank account if you chose to arrive on a visa exempt. You can always go for a 60 days tourist visa which is also extendable another 30 days.
              Reply

            • Max says

              This is the documents needed together with form TM86 (when changing from 60 days TR visa) or TM87 (arriving on a visa exempt):
              2 forms with a 4x6 cm photo on each form, with one set of documents with each form. Passport copies: the first page with photo and the page with the entry stamp. If arriving on a 60 days TR eVisa, one copy of the visa. Copies of the condo contract/lease. One bank letter from the Thai bank (cost:100 baht) verifying the owner of the account and showing at least 800k. A copy for the second set is allowed. The bank letter must be obtained either the day before if going to immigration early in the morning OR the same day if going to immigration later in the day. Copies from the bank book: The first page with name and account number and the page showing transactions and balance (at least 800k).The balance in the bank book must be same as in the bank letter. Update the bank book when asking for the bank letter. Every copy must be signed at the bottom in blue ink. Now you should have 2 sets of documents. Go to the local immigration office and get 2 forms at the front desk or Google TM86 or TM87 and download it and fill it in on the computer. I always copy my forms to a USB-drive and print them out (2-sided printout if the form has 2 sides) at the nearest photo shop. Don't forget to sign them in blue ink. Everything you need is in the passport (and in the eVisa if you arrived on a tourist visa). That's all. I don't think I have forgotten anything.
              Reply

              • Eric says

                That's very comprehensive - thanks a lot, Max. Both approaches seem doable with pros/cons - either getting the health insurance and applying for non-immigrant O visa from home right away, or arriving on visa exemption and changing to the O visa later on. (I could imagine opening a bank account might be easier when arriving with an O visa, instead of visa exempt tourist status).

                Is there actually any requirement to be physically in Thailand for the 2-3 months between getting the O visa, depositing the 800k and then applying for the one year extension? Or can I travel in an out during that time (assuming I have a multiple entry O visa)
                Reply

                • Max says

                  You can't do this in the wrong order. First arrive on a visa of your choice, I wouldn't go for the visa exempt option. As you said,it might be easier to open an account on a 90 days Non-immigrant O visa,but you must have an official address, a hotel isn't officially allowed. First find a place to stay,where in Thailand are you planning on staying anyway? What works in one place might not work in another place even if there are official rules and requirements. If you don't have a plan,then you might be screwed. You just have so much time to find a place to stay with a lease and to open a bank account. That's what you must do first. The easiest way to open an account is actually in big malls where almost every bank have a branch. For some strange reason some branches don't follow their own requirements. Try Bangkok Bank,Kasikorn Bank, Siam Commercial Bank (SCB), Krungsri Bank, or Krungthai Bank. There are more banks but not so many commercial banks. The 800k must be in an account the day you apply for the change of visa. If you arrive on a 90 days Non-immigrant O, then you have up to 30 days to open an account and transfer money from back home. You can't be late because this is not negotiable at immigration. I think you should concentrate about finding a place to stay and to open an account,not about travelling in the meantime. After 30 days into the 90 days Non-immigrant O, you must have the money and apply for the 1 year extension. You can't leave the country after that because you have filled in the date of entry in the application (form TM7) with a copy of the entry stamp in the passport. When you've got the 1 year extension, you can travel as much as you want using a multi re-entry permit.
                  Reply

                  • Ron says

                    Max this all is invaluable information. Thanks for the detailed summary.

                    One question if you could clarify. You said "After 30 days into the 90 days Non-immigrant O, you must have the money and apply for the 1 year extension."

                    As I understand it the money must be in the bank for 60 days prior to applying for the 1 year extension. So that part makes sense. But can't you apply within at least 15 days (I've read Chiang Mai requires 21) prior to the expiry of your permission to stay for the extension? I'm probably misreading your quote but it sounded from it that you'd need to be at immigration within 60 or more days prior to the expiration of your permission to stay. I just want to be sure because obviously timing is going to be tight even if the window is 15 or more days. Thanks
                    Reply

                    • Ron says

                      You wrote,"After 30 days into the 90 days Non-immigrant O, you must have the money and apply for the 1 year extension."

                      I'm saying you don't need to apply for a 1 year extension 30 days into the 90 day visa. Most offices the deadline would be 75 days or less into that visa with Chiang Mai requiring it to be 69 days or less.

                      You wrote it as you'd have to apply for an extension 30 days or less into that visa. The money needs to be in the bank by then but your application doesn't.

                      That's what I'm talking about

                    • Max says

                      My bad,Ron and Eric. Blame it on FIFA World Cup. I was watching a game on tv while writing. It should of course be "after 60 days into the 90 days Non-immigrant O you can apply for a 1 year extension". Nothing else. I don't know how many times I have explained the procedure and when I wrote 30 days I saw 60 days in front of me.
                      Another thing immigration might ask for is the TM30 receipt. TM30 is the form used for registering an address. Officially it should be submitted within 24 hours after arrival except when immigration is closed,like Sat-Sun and holidays. They can actually fine you 1,600 baht if not submitting it.It's free and you just need the copies I mentioned before from your passport and lease. Signed at the bottom in blue ink. Plus form TM30,of course. Immigration will staple a receipt inside your passport.Keep it there. When applying for extensions make a copy of it and add it to the rest of the documents. Now I think I haven't forgotten anything 🤔. (Hopefully)

                  • Eric says

                    I agree and thanks for sharing all the details! Having to go back to Hong Kong once or twice every month makes it probably more tricky, so I need to figure out the best approach that allows me that.

                    I already got a condo lease under my name near Sukhumvit, so just a bank account is missing which I’ll tackle when I get there.
                    Reply

          • Max says

            Visa on arrival? You mean visa exempt? It's possible to change from a visa exempt to a 90-days Non-immigrant O at the local immigration office. It's the same procedure as when changing from a 60 days tourist visa to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa but instead of form TM86 it's form TM87. The only problem might be time when it comes to achieve an official address and a bank account. You also need 2 sets of documents instead of one when applying for the change. The fee is 2,000 baht. In my opinion arriving on a 90 days Non-immigrant O is the best way even with a 90 days health insurance. Just go for the cheapest option incl deductibles. This means only one visit to immigration which will cost 1,900 baht instead of a total of 3,900 baht and a lot of headache because of the stuff that needs to be done after arrival on a visa exempt.
            Reply

          • Robert Morton says

            Not True. Referring to the Nov. 21 comment, that said you must have resided in Thailand for 60 days, before applying for the 90-day Non-O Retirement. Just applied and approved in CM for change from initial 45-day Visa Exempt to 90-Day Non-O Retirement, with no difficulty.
            Reply

            • Max says

              You must have misunderstood those posts. Those posts were about a 1 year extension "from" an initial 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa. Then, after ~60 days into those 90 days you can apply for the 1 year extension. You are talking about the change from a 45 days visa exempt "to" a 90 days Non-immigrant O. That's a totally different thing.
              Reply

              • Robert Morton says

                Max, respectfully, I did NOT misunderstand, and am fully aware of the differences between the 2 processes. The Posts above, discussed BOTH. And, below I quote the Post dtd. 11/29/22 at 03:39am from Editor "Thailand Life", I was replying to, which you will see DID in fact erroneously state that a person has to reside in Thailand for 60 days before applying for the "Non-O" ( after arriving on 45-day Visa Exempt).

                "TheThailandLife says

                You can open a bank account and deposit your money in those 45 days but you have to reside in Thailand for 60 days before applying for a Non O Visa. I'm not sure if doing a 30-day extension would count in this regard; it would be up to immigration. The easiest route is a Non 0 Visa, single entry, which doesn't require insurance at most Thai embassies.
                Reply
                Nov 21, 2022 at 3:39 am"
                Reply

  7. Ron says

    Is there some out of date information here? The Thai Embassy DC site

    shows you need insurance with the 90 day non-o visa.

    But this site is indicating it is better to get the non-o 90 day visa rather than the non 0-A because you can avoid the insurance cost and hassle.

    https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/nonoretirement/

    "The applicants must submit the following:

    Health insurance policy document issued by a Thai or foreign insurance company, stating that the applicant is medically insured for the period and with coverage as mentioned above:
    (a) In case of a foreign insurance company, the applicant must submit the original insurance policy document with 2 copies;
    (b) In case of a Thai insurance company, the applicant must submit 2 copies of the insurance policy document or, if available, the original insurance policy document with 2 copies. A list of Thai insurance companies participating in the scheme can be found here: http://longstay.tgia.org

    Foreign Insurance Certificate as stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and Health Insurance of Thailand, which must be completed, signed and stamped by the insurance company. The form can be downloaded here: Foreign Insurance Certificate Form"
    Reply

    • Max says

      In my opinion several embassies all over the world have misunderstood the part about Insurance requirements. Anyway,you just need the insurance for 90 days which doesn't cost much. When extending the stay 1 year at the local immigration office based on an initial Non-immigrant O Visa, you won't need an insurance. But if you go for an O-A you need a 1 year insurance covering USD100,000 or 3 million baht which isn't free, and you have to pay for that insurance every year.
      Reply

      • Ron says

        Thanks. I assume that the insurance requirement still applies when applying for a non-o in Thailand.

        My plan is to arrive on a 45 day exemption, open a bank account, extend the 45 day exemption if needed and then apply for the 90 day non-o. After that extend that non-o annually.

        I've read where this approach is possible. Is that right?
        Reply

        • Max says

          There's no mandatory health insurance when applying for the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa in Thailand or when applying for the 1 year extension. Otherwise,you are correct. The bank account is important. The 800k must be in your account the day you apply for the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa and 2 months prior to the day you apply for the 1 year extension. This is not negotiable.
          Reply

    • JamesE says

      This is a "check the fine print" situation. If you get an O - Retirement you have to have minimal insurance ฿40,000/฿400,000 for the "length of your stay"; AKA 90 days. You can then extend your permission to stay for a year with no further insurance requirement. If you go with an O-A you need a metric-ton of insurance US$100,000 (฿3,000,000) for the length of your stay; AKA 1 year. And the requirement doesn't go away with extension. Much cheaper to go with the O - Retirement.
      Reply

  8. John Baxter says

    I did my last 90 day report on 4 September 2022 and was scheduled to
    do the next one on 4 December 2022. At the time I was on a covid extension of stay. I now have an Non O Visa over 50 granted on 31 October 2022 with an expiry date of 28 January 2023. I take it that the January date is my new date for the 90 day report but would appreciate any advice in this regard. I note that the visa stamp says I was "admitted" on 31 October 2022
    Reply

  9. Nick says

    Hi Guys
    I have an OA visa...I did annual renewal this March..so looking at the end in march next year.
    I have now made the permanent move to Thailand.
    I am 56.
    I "married" my partner at Xmas...full family Issaan wedding with Sin sot but we did not do any legal paperwork at the time. Have all my divorce paperwork here now so will do that soon.
    I am slightly confused about marriage visa and retirement visa and what I should be doing now...OA visa can only be renewed once?
    So now need to apply for O visa?
    Or is there an actual marriage visa.
    Do we need to get married? Neither of us in great desire to rush to gov office but also neither of us against marriage..just we both had difficult ones and are very happy together...had more important stuff to do this year on farm!!
    I have had a thai bank account for 2 years and can do the financial checks ok.
    We own our own house.
    Could you just clarify what my options are...thai friends are muddying the waters...everyone is an immigration expert it seems!!!!
    Thank you
    PS great website
    Reply

    • Max says

      To "kill" the O-A you must leave the country without a re-entry permit and come back again on a 30(45) days visa exempt or a 60 days tourist visa. You can then change to a 90 days Non-immigrant O at the local immigration office, or even better return on a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement. Then you can apply for a 1 year extension after 60 days.That's by far the best option. Less visits at immigration.
      You must be officially married to be able to use the marriage option,meaning you need to visit the district office (amphoe) where you got married and registered the wedding.
      You can extend the permission of stay based on retirement on an initial O-A annualy same as with the O. But if you go for the O, you won't need a health insurance. You need 400k in the bank if you go for the marriage option and 800k for the retirement option.
      Reply

      • Nick says

        Thank you for the reply...but why do I need to kill the visa...it will expire in 5 months?
        Secondly you mentioned extending the OA annually which I thought could only be done once..which I stated I had already done?
        Thirdly you talk about o visa then talk about Marriage or retirement OPTIONS so are you saying there are different versions of o visa? If so this is where the confusion is arising. I would have assumed the different visa options would have different names?
        Reply

        • Max says

          You can extend your permission of stay based on an initial O-A Visa as many times as you want. BUT, you must also have a 100,000USD or 3 million baht insurance when you extend your stay next year,and it's not free.
          A visa is what you have to be able to enter a country,but at the same moment it's used,and you're on a permission of stay. The only visa options for retirees or people that are married are: 90 days Non-immigrant O based on marriage, 90 days Non-immigrant O based on retirement and two Long stay visas based on retirement, the O-A and the O-X. These are the official "names". This is not hard to understand. Don't confuse a visa with a permission of stay. But,as I said earlier,if you want to do same as thousands of retirees have done this year prior to October 1, change from the initial O-A to O, then you must kill it by leaving the country without a re-entry permit and start all over again as I explained earlier. If not, stay with your O-A and pay a lot of money for the mandatory health insurance next year. I don't know who you've been talking to,but your O-A will not expire unless you're on overstay in March next year. So, you have a few months to think it over. It's basically just about money.
          Reply

          • Nick says

            Thank you Max that is a little clearer!
            Can I ask about the health insurance bit?...Do most people not bother with health insurance then? Obviously I started the OA visa during covid and travelled in and out quite a few times and huge ins at the time was a requirement along with the fun quarrentines.
            I am happy to pay for annual health insurance..last one was just a few £00 quid...as I had no real option i just paid for it.
            I have not seen anywhere that the OA visa goes on after 2 years...and if Health Ins is the only issue I am unsure why I would not just stay with it...I cannot kill it anyway as have multi entry.
            I just want least hassle for next 5 years then apply for citizenship.
            Thank you for your response.
            Reply

            • Max says

              You didn't pay for a USD100,000 or 3 million baht insurance last time. This new amount came into effect October 1 this year and you'll have to pay to a Thai insurance company. When you're on an O visa/extension, and you want an insurance you don't need that kind of coverage. You can pick one that suits you. The mandatory insurance is forced on you. To be honest, it's not very smart to go for an O-A and I have a hard time understanding how come you don't know how it works. The multi entry doesn't last forever,I think just the first year, and if you leave the country just before it expires, you get the second year for free when you re-enter. After that it works exactly same as an O,except for the mandatory health insurance when you apply for the 1 year extension. I also think you have misunderstood the citizenship part. I think you're confusing it with the PR-visa = Permanent Residency Visa. It's not something Thai authorities give away just because you're a nice guy. You better read up on it. It's harder to achieve than you think.
              Reply

              • Nick says

                I think your response is quite rude.

                I do not indeed currently have 3 Mill Baht insurance...I have 3.5 Million, the previous year I had 10 Mill. So please do not tell me what i do or do not have without any knowledge. Happy to send photo if you want.
                It is with a Thai insurance company recommended by immigration. It cost less than £300.

                Why do you say I do not understand how OA works?
                There appear to be numerous gaps in your knowledge
                I have been using one for 18 months and made 7 trips on it. I only did not understand the fact it can be renewed after 2 years as I have not seen that in writing anywhere.
                My renewal has multi entry as I requested it.
                I have been very busy on other projects and as i have a current visa working fine I have not devoted large amounts of time to march 2023. This was my first port of call to get an idea what other people have done. I will do my own research and get a Thai lawyer on the case at Christmas.


                The thing I asked you was what are people doing about their own health insurance ? Are people on O visas not bothering with health insurance then?
                I will have health insurance whether it is a requirement or not...hence my confusion on why not to just keep my current visa and not jump through new hoops for a differnt visa that does the same job.
                If it is purely financial based on the insurance cost ...that is not an issue for me.

                Finally Citizenship...why make a comment about being "a nice guy"? Utterly unnecessary on your part considering you know nothing about me.
                I have not asked for anyone's help on this. I know exactly what I need and have a 5 year plan to achieve it, thank you very much. You want to have a wager on my success? I am happy to put up cash into an escrow account for 5 years if you like? You name the amount....
                Reply

              • Max says

                First: You said an O-A Visa last 2 years and it will then expire, which it never does. Fyi, a visa is never renewed, your stay is extended. You're on a permission of stay, nothing else. That tells me you don't know how it works. Second: I told you about insurances. It's a huge difference between an insurance that's forced on you and an insurance you pick yourself after your needs. Why do you think thousands of expats have gone from O-A to O the last year? Third: A citizenship is not same as a Permanent Residency. A gentle piece of advice, knowing the correct terminology makes everything easier. I have been living in Thailand many years and there's not much I don't know about how everything works.
                Reply

  10. Simon says

    Hi, Peter,

    This website resource is great, as is your email letter update.

    I do, though, have one quick question on the GBP10,000 in the UK bank account for 3 months:

    the amount is fine but I do not currently have it in a personal UK bank account RATHER I have it in a UK business account (sole trader in my name) but I can move it easily to a Revolut Personal account or to a Wise Personal account. Are either of those two financial institutions (Revolut or Wise) okay to have the GBP10,000 in, as I could also get PDF statements if needed?

    I can't get through to the Thai Embassy here in London either by phone or email and nobody else seems to know.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Reply

    • Max says

      If you move your money to another account then the requirement to have the amount in that account for 3 months
      is not met. Wise or Revolut won't work because those are as you said financial institutions,they simply transfer money. They are not banks and a pdf statement from either of them is something you print out yourself. A bank statement issued by a bank will be stamped and signed.
      Reply

        • Max says

          The way it is intended, your money should be in a personal account showing monthly salaries and spendings. Meaning,the bank statement should show that you've had the required amount of money during the last 3 months. Having money in a business account just shows that you have money,if you know what I mean. But,when it comes to thai embassies or consulates, you'll never know what they really want,or if they even understand their own requirements. What works in one country won't work in another country. Go figure.
          Reply

          • Simon says

            Haha, yes, I do know what you mean.

            Basically, to be on the safe side, the money should be in a personal account at a regular bank, I think is the upshot of this.

            Thanks very much, Max, for your great help, which is definitive as far as I am concerned, so I have no further questions on this.

            Enjoy your day.
            Reply

  11. Douglas raynal says

    I have a retirement visa which expires june 23 i was back in the uk for a bereavement i have a re entry permit but my 90 day pass will expire on october 22nd and i return on 2nd november how do i get another 90 day pass ?
    Reply

    • Max says

      The only reason,in my opinion to use an agency, is when not meeting financial requirements. A 1 year extension based on retirement cost 1,900 baht and is totally painless if everything is in order, compared to at least 12-12,500 baht (sometimes even more) when using an agency. Many agencies won't do marriage extensions because it isn't the local immigration office that finally approves the application.
      Reply

        • Max says

          I don't believe that. That would be ~32,000 baht for a simple retirement extension, which I don't even think they do. Do you know anything about Thailand and visa agencies? I live in Thailand since many years. You never ever use an online visa-agency. You "ALWAYS" use a local agency because they have contacts at immigration. There are loads of them in every major city. The main part of the payment goes straight to the immigration office and the agency keeps the rest.
          Reply

    • Max says

      At the moment there's no TM6 card (arrival/departure) to fill in when arriving by air. The need for a return ticket depends on the type of Visa you arrive on. You won't be able to apply for a 60 days tourist Visa without a return ticket and arriving on a 45 days Visa exempt can be a problem because immigration might want to see an onward ticket or a return ticket. Instead, apply for a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement in your home country and then extend the stay 1 year after 60 days at the local immigration office as long as you meet the requirements.
      Reply

        • Max says

          You don't need a return ticket if you arrive on a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement. That's by far the best choice if you're going for a 1 year extension,as long as you meet the financial requirements like having a Thai bank account with correct amount of money.
          Reply

      • Robert Morton says

        Max, one correction to your Oct. 06 Post. In my considerable experience in/out of Thailand, my wife and I have NEVER been asked by Immigration for Proof of Departure Flight. The only one who ever asks is the Airlines -- and, most major airlines do request -- because they are the ones "on the hook" if you were to be refused entry (again, even though never happens). BUT, there are ways around that: i. Safest most conservative method is to purchase a fully Refundable Ticket, and then cancel it after you arrive. ii. You could find a Travel Website that offers free cancellation within 24-48hrs of purchase, so long as you will arrive in Thailand within time to cancel. iii. You can make print your own "Reservation" for departure. Obviously, if discovered, this could be a big problem. But, miniscule chance anybody cares enough to check.
        Reply

        • Max says

          Robert, I said "immigration might" ask for a return ticket or forwarding ticket. This have happened lots of times in Suvarnabhumi airport, especially during 2019 for some strange reasons (then the pandemic happened). This was discussed frequently online.
          Reply

          • Robert Morton says

            Max, it really is unnecessary for you to be so argumentative. Regardless of whether "Immigration might" ask for a return ticket, my point was most major Airlines WILL ask. And, then provided some helpful suggestions on how to deal with it. Sorry, if my attempts to offer additional valuable contributions offends your "Fiefdom".
            Reply

  14. Paul Haynes says

    I am arriving on tourist visa on 16th November, and shall be trying to obtain a multi entry retirement visa in Hua Hin not sure if this is O or OA. I can put 800k baht in my Bangkok bank before l leave UK but would rather put my private and state pension in it will be just above the required 65k. Not sure about what l have to produce regarding this, do l have access to these deposits each month really not sure about the criteria for the 65k. Any help would be appreciated
    Reply

    • Max says

      There's no such thing as a multi entry retirement visa. You must first change your 60 days TR Visa into a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement at the local immigration office. To be able to do that you must have 800k in your Thai bank account the day you're applying for the change. This is by far the easiest way. You're from the UK and starting with the 65k monthly deposit when doing the change of Visa means a lot of paperwork both in Hua-Hin and in Bangkok, and you can't get an income letter from your embassy as proof of your pension, it might not work. You can't deposit the 65k per month yourself, again because you're from the UK. Your pension must be transferred by your pension provider straight into your Thai bank account every month which also means a bad exchange rate. A combination of private pension and state pension won't work. These rules for UK,US and Australian citizens started January 1, 2019. In my opinion,start with the 800k in the bank method the first year,and change into the monthly deposit method the second year using the so called combination method = one part money in bank and one part state pension (a total of 800k), if Hua-Hin immigration allows that method. After 60 days into your 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa, you can apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement. You'll need the 800k in your account 60 days prior to the day of application.
      Reply

  15. Max says

    No need for a multi entry 90 days Non-immigrant O. A single entry is all you need if you're going for the 1 year extension based on retirement or marriage. The rest is just about money, monthly income or money in the bank = 800k or 400k when going for based on marriage. Everything else is already explained here at TTL.
    Reply

  17. Andrew says

    Hi. I intend to apply for a 90 day O visa, in my home country of Australia and then travel to Thailand. Whilst there I'd like to open a Thai bank account, as I would like to deposit the required 800k amount in order to meet the requirements to retire once the money has been there for the required 3 months, ( I'll be returning to Australia while this take place and then intend to re-apply for another 90 day O visa to return and then hopefully extend into a longer term option of retiring in Thailand ). My first question is, can I open a Thai bank account in order to deposit the 800k whilst on a 90 day O visa and how difficult is this, as I believe it's not easy? I also have a Thai partner that I intend to marry shortly, and believe that the amount required to retire in Thailand once married to a Thai national is reduced to 400k. My second question is, if I'm married to a Thai national is it easier to open a Thai bank account, and what other requirements do I need to meet in order to extend my 90 day O visa? Third question is what type of Visa is the best to apply for 'Spouse' or 'retirement' and which is easier to obtain?...Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to provide.
    Reply

    • JamesE says

      Read TTL's opening a bank account post for suggestions. It's here: https://www.thethailandlife.com/thai-bank-account-foreigners Second, plan on getting a statement of residence from your embassy. I don't know how it works for Oz but for the US they have a form that you fill out with whatever your bank requires and they notarize it (for an insane amount of money). For Bangkok Bank, at least, the requirements are address in Thailand, address in your home country, and identifying information (like your passport number, dates, etc.). This document will also work when you get your driver's license, another good thing to check off the to-do list early.
      Reply

      • Robert Morton says

        James your info. is out-of-date. US & UK (and I believe also AU) no longer certify Income Letters. And, without the Letter, the ONLY way you do the Income Method is to have your Pension Money deposited directly into Thai Bank Acct. FOR 12 MONTHS PRIOR TO APPLICATION. (And, must be done properly showing foreign bank origin of funds). So, now IMPOSSIBLE for first time applicant for Non-O & Retirement Extension, to get upon arrival (i.e. because had to have been making deposits for 12 months prior). So, only practical way now for US, UK (& AU ?) to get Non-O and Retirement, is the 800K Bank Deposit method.
        Reply

    • Max says

      1) Being able to open a bank account on a 90 days Non-Immigrant O depends on the branch and includes some luck.
      2) It's normally not easier to open an account when having a Thai wife unless she's a well known customer in the bank.
      3) You need a bank account when going for a spouse visa and for the retirement visa when extending it annually. The extension based on retirement is in my opinion easier,but you need 800k in the bank compared to 400k when going for the spouse alternative.
      Reply

  19. Mike says

    Max, great site! I have lived in chiang mai Thailand since 2015. Married thai woman 2018. I was on my 2nd o/a visa when they activated mandatory medical and would not extend my second year. When covid hit 2019 i was there on 60 day extensions. Started putting money direct deposit into thai bank in 2019 but after 13 months they wouldnot give us the spouse visa. I as told by head of immigration that i would have to leave country, come back with 800k "o" visa then apply for spouse visa. So i have given up on long term visa. At 72 i cant afford another o/a with medical. So i will come in with 90 day in immigrant o visa. Is that single entry and i just go to border to get another new 90 days each time? If i can get 6 months a year in thailand im good.
    Reply

    • Max says

      The info you got regarding leaving the country,coming back with 800k to get a visa based on marriage is not correct. The amount is 400k in a Thai bank,nothing else. 800k in the bank is based on retirement. If you're still on an initial O/A you can leave the country without a re-entry permit to kill it. If you re-enter on a 90-days Non-immigrant O visa based on marriage and have 400k in a Thai bank account,then after 60 days you can apply for a 1 year extension based on marriage (with a Thai wife). You can not do border runs to get another 90 days on a single entry Non-Immigrant O.
      Reply

      • Robert says

        Absolutely right I got my o visa in the UK based on I was married to a thsi in 2006 I already had a bank account and all I need was 400000 baht or an income of the same ie pension .after the 60 days appied to stop for the year immigration came to my home here and we had to have an independent witness who they interview we also had to have photo's of us outside our house with number marriage cirtificate letter from bank stating how much was in there and for how long , it was also suggested that you have medical insurance which I have with kasikorn bank . After applying they extended my visa for 1 month while they do paperwork. It seems like a lot of hassle but immigration where really helpfull especially the one in udonthani there service was first class . Also do not forget to repot at immigration every 90 days or they might not renew your 1 year visa.
        If you intend to buy a car you can if pay with cash but will need document from immigration other wise you need tabian ban yours will be yellow as a forgeiner. You can then get an id card . Also remember if you drive you need an international driving permit, but you can only use it for 3 months. Just get a thai driving licence. Again you need document from immigration and medical cirtificate plus driving permit and licence . It was quite easy . Good luck
        Reply

  21. Roger Cawthorn says

    I have an Australian military pension paid into my Australian bank every fortnight and well in excess of the 65000Baht per month requirement. I can get certified letter from the Australian Government to this effect. I transfer funds periodically, not every month, to my partners Thai bank account. In the last 6 months this amounts to over 500000Baht well in excess of the 390000(65000x6) required.
    You write that funds in the pension do not have to be in Thailand. Will the above meet the O-A visa rules.
    Roger
    Reply

    • JamesE says

      Your Australian deposits will qualify for your initial O-A but transfers to someone else will not help with your eventual extension. The ฿65K/mo or ฿800K balance must be in a Thai account solely in your name (with appropriate documentation) when you go to extend. Your alternative is an annual trip home and a new O-A based on your Australian income/balance. If you're planning on living in Thailand the O (Retirement) visa, with no background check or long-term insurance requirement, is really a much cleaner option than an O-A.
      Reply

    • Max says

      Starting September 1 the mandatory health insurance,(if you go for the O-A) must cover 3 million baht. It's not a very smart option. Start with a 90 days Non-immigrant O based on retirement and extend it 1 year at the local immigration office.
      Reply

        • Max says

          A foreign health insurance is accepted but there's a "Foreign Insurance Certificate" issued by the Department of Health. It has to be signed by your insurance company. Without that certificate your insurance won't be accepted.
          Reply

            • Max says

              I said what's official. You can easily find the official requirements online. Immigration must also come up with a reason for the rejection. What do you mean by "I agreed to have O Visa not O-A"? Are we talking about a 1 year extension in Thailand? If you were extending your stay (not a Visa) 1 year on an initial O-A Visa, then you can't change to an O at the local immigration office. That's not possible. You have to leave the country without a re-entry permit to kill the O-A, (if that's what you had),and re-enter and start all over again to be able to apply for an O.
              Reply

              • TheThailandLife says

                The O-A is initially applied for outside of the country at a local embassy, so your insurance would have been accepted upon the initial application. I don't see how the same insurance could then be refused when doing an extension. What immigration office was this? Could you have tried a different one?
                Reply

                • Max says

                  MFA runs embassies and consulates but not The Thai Immigration Bureau. What embassies/consulates accepts Thai Immigration can reject. They are doing it all the time when they deny people entry even when having a visa from an embassy or consulate, and they are not always right. Vital information between authorities is often non-existing.
                  Reply

                  • TheThailandLife says

                    Indeed. We all know that immigration have the right to refuse entry or reject a visa, but the requirements are a different thing entirely. The requirements should be applied consistently. But instead, as we see time and time again, responses appear to differ between departments and immigration offices.
                    Reply

                    • Max says

                      In my opinion very often immigration officers don't have a clue about official requirements, especially in offices out in the sticks. Maybe the "Foreign Insurance Certificate" isn't well-known. It's a very strange certificate,I downloaded it last year just out of curiosity. Three persons including two "directors" have to sign it. I can email it to you if you haven't seen it.

                • Cosby says

                  We went to renew OA visa at Chengwattana immigration office. what do you mean another office? Is there any other immigration office in Bangkok?

                  Yes. same insurance company- BlueShiled and BlueCross. It is scam that they want us to buy another insurance from their network. Our insurance is good at Bangkok major hospitals. It is scam.
                  Reply

                  • Max says

                    And you had the official "Foreign Insurance Certificate" (an original,not a copy) issued by The Department of Health in Thailand,signed by three persons including two directors? At every immigration office in Thailand you have the right to ask for a supervisor to check your documents if your application for some reason is rejected by an immigration officer.
                    Reply

    • Robert says

      As far as I am aware you need either money in bank or can prove regular guaranteed income the amount needed varies on what visa your after but believe the o multi entry is best which lasts 90 days after 60 days apply to stop one year on the basis you are married to a thai , if not you need equivalent of 800000 baht
      Reply

  22. John Baxter says

    I am confused. I have all the requirements to apply for a non o visa eg over 50 800k in the bank but I have been given conflicting advice

    I have been told that the 800k must be in the bank for 2 months before you can apply for the 90 day Non O Visa. Others say no the funds must be in the bank 2 months before you apply for the extension of stay The 800k was in my bank 28 June 2022 If the first statement is correct then I must wait until 28 August before making application for the 90 day O visa. If the second statement is coorect I can apply now it would seem

    I need to get it right as my current visa expires 6 August 2022 and I could be running out of time
    Reply

    • Max says

      Are you talking about changing visa from tourist visa to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa? If Yes, you can apply now.
      If you're talking about a 1 year extension, then the 800k must be in your account 2 months prior to the day you apply for the extension. That's not negotiable at immigration.
      Reply

        • Max says

          You have the documents needed,2 sets? One set with the original bank letter and original copies from your condo owner/landlord of the house book and Thai ID-card. Copies from passport,the updated bank book and contract/lease.Every copy signed in blue ink. One set with just copies,otherwise exactly same as set no one. Two form TM87 with a photo on each form and signed.
          Reply

          • John Baxter says

            Yes All set Max with the documentation.The hotel manager particularly helpful with proof of long term stay. I won't sign up for a condo until I have my 12 month extension of stay granted Thanks again for your valuable advice
            Reply

            • John Baxter says

              I have all the requirements to apply for an over 50 Non O visa ie Seasoned bank money TM 30 Lease document etc. My question is do I have to go to the same immigration office [after the grant of Non 0] to apply for the extension of stay within the 90 days. My plan is this- apply for non 0 at Jomtien but move to Rayong immediately after the grant [for a life style change] or must I stay within the Jomtien jurisdiction. Also because the funds will have been in the bank for 2 months can I apply for the extension of stay soon after the grant of the non 0 visa. Thank you in advance for any advice you can give
              Reply

              • Max says

                Why apply for the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa in Jomtien if leaving for Rayong before the 1 year extension? Why don't you do everything in Rayong instead? If your official address is in Jomtien/Pattaya and you have submitted a TM30 at Jomtien immigration, then that's where you belong so to speak and your bank account is probably also in Jomtien/Pattaya and your bank is issuing the bank letter for immigration. When applying for the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa,the money needs to be in your account the same day,not earlier.But,when applying for the 1 year extension,the money has to be in your account 2 months prior to the day of application, but also 90 days after the application. Applying for the 1 year extension straight after the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa application is granted, is something I've never heard of, and I honestly don't know if it's possible. In my opinion, you're making it a bit complicated for yourself.
                Reply

    • Robert m says

      I am from the UK no , 1st of all I appied for a 90 day o visa in the UK to the thai embassy. I am married to a thai anyway , after you get your visa for 90 days you come to thailand, you have to report immediately to the local immigration office to report where you are living usually with the head of the family with tabian ban , after 60days you need to go back to immigration and extend your visa for the year that's when if married to a thai you have to show 400,000 thai baht in a thai bank no less than 3 months with letter from bank a copy of book .You can then stop for a year after 11mths you do the same again and after 2 years you can apply for residency. The requirements are different if not married to a thai. Just retirement 6 or 800000 in bank. You don't need the 400000 in the bank as long as you can show an income of at least that , but first thing you need is to apply from the country you live in , it's much easier than stopping the 30 days then going to lao or Cambodia to then get your visa
      Reply

      • Max says

        Robert: What are you trying to say with your post? A few things are not correct, for example applying for residency after 2 years. When married to a Thai, you need either 400k in the bank OR an average income of 40k/month.There's no long term visa which is "easier" to get by applying in your home country. The last part about "it's much easier than stopping the 30 days" etc etc is very cryptic. I think you're confusing one type of Visa with another.
        Reply

      • Jerry says

        Question about the Non-O visa for Retirement, and the financial requirement for extension of stay.

        Last year my extension of stay was done using the 800K since I didn't have the 12 trailing deposits of 65K or more yet. This year I plan to use the at least 65K monthly deposit method, I have 12 consecutive months now into a Thai bank.

        Side note, the bank issued a letter for the extension of stay last year with only the balance. When I asked for something showing the deposits, I was told they don't do that.

        My question is: will the bank statements I get online showing the individual transactions in the account, along with the bank letter, and bank account passbook be sufficient documentation for the immigration officer?

         The bank statements have the banks name, and clearly state international deposit.

        I use the Watthana office as I live in BKK.

        Just asking if there will be additional items in regards to fhe financial requirement I might be asked to provide that others have experienced at the the Watthana immigration office.

        Thanks in advance for any inputs.
        Reply

        • Max says

          You need a 12 months bank statement, but branches only, for some strange reason, issues 6 months bank statements. You can order a 12 months bank statement from your branch. That's normal procedure. It might take a few days to get the statement, I've heard 4-7 days depending on bank. You can also get it from your banks head office as long as it's located in BKK. You'll also need the bank letter showing you're the account holder and balance.
          Reply

          • Jerry says

            Thanks Max,
            It seems so odd to me that even though I can print up to six months transactions on the bangkok bank site, a pdf bank statement, I need to get the same info from a branch. Then I also have the exact same transactions in a passbook the immigration officer will want to copy.

            At least if I understand you correctly. I guess that's normal logic for government. Too funny. ...555
            Reply

            • Max says

              One question: Your 12 deposits,are those from a pension provider or transfers from your bank account back home? Officially, you need to be retired to be able to use monthly deposits and immigration has the right to ask for proof of the source, a pension provider. It means they want a stamped and signed certificate showing you're actually retired.
              A pdf document can easily be edited, and the bank will stamp and sign the 12 months bank statement. Copies from the bank book will work when using the money in the bank method if the bank book is updated on a regular basis. Immigration won't (normally) ask for copies from your bank book when having the bank statement. If you're a UK,US or Australian citizen,you can't obtain an income letter from your embassy. Those embassies don't issue income letters since Jan 1, 2019. Other countries embassies/consulates do. With an income letter you don't need the 12 months bank statement,or anything else as proof of income (pension).
              Reply

            • JamesE says

              I've actually gotten to see my bank file. I'm only in Thailand several months a year and I've only had my account since 2016. It's about 8cm thick. Any interaction with the bank, any change to your account, all your statements, copies of the letters to immigration, it's all there. But they've got the official version that immigration wants. The requirement that you document it as well is just there to make you feel like you contributed.
              Reply

              • Max says

                James, the reason immigration wants a bank statement instead of a print out from a computer, is the printed out pdf-file is possible to edit. It's so easy if you know how to do it, (and you can only print out the last 6 months). It's the same routine in every western country when you need proof of income or having a certain amount in your bank account. You always need a stamped and signed bank statement. This is normal procedure and has nothing to do with Thai immigration being super suspicious. The 12 months bank statement they want from your bank when using monthly deposits is nothing they have stored,it's created at main office when ordered. Bangkok Bank has a bank statement showing (at least) 12 foreign deposits of 65k or more, nothing else. It doesn't even look like a standard bank statement. Immigration just want to see those 12 foreign deposits being transferred in the end of the month. The only thing I don't understand is why branches aren't allowed to issue 12 months bank statements,just 6 months. That's very strange and it makes no sense at all.
                Reply

  24. Lana Scott says

    Can anyone here recommend an agent in Pattaya to assist with applying to Immigration Office for non immigrant o visa? Price and reliability?
    It will soon be time for me to travel and I'm getting the "colly-wobbles". Would be good to have someone to guide and assist me.
    Reply

    • Max says

      If you're going for the 800k in the bank method, and you will have the money in your Thai bank account when applying for the "Change of Visa" at immigration in Jomtien,you won't actually need an agent. The money is the only really import thing, plus an address of course with a contract/lease.
      Other than that, there's just the bank letter from your Thai bank,copies from your bank book, a load of copies from your passport, the first page,the page with the entry stamp (and if you get one), a copy of the departure card, (the TM6-card) and copies of your contract/lease. Depending who you rent from, an agency or a Thai person,you'll need a signed copy of the blue house book and Thai ID-card. You need 2 sets of documents,you can copy the original bank letter and house book and ID-card. Everything signed at the bottom in blue ink. You also need the TM86-form (if you arrived on a 60-days tourist visa,and another TM86 with a photo on each form. (2 of everything like I said). You can ask for the form at the immigration front desk, and you can take photos outside immigration in the visa agency. They can also help you if you need,it doesn't cost much. The documents mentioned above are not negotiable at immigration desk 7. Desk 7 only handles change of visas, and they (2 ladies) can be quite tough,even rude sometime if your documents are not in order.
      Reply

        • Max says

          Like I said earlier,if you need guidance for the paperwork, just use the office outside Jomtien Immigration (5 meters to the left). But, I'm actually sure that what I wrote is correct. I once did the change of visa years ago based on retirement using 800k in the bank, and the requirements haven't changed a bit.
          Reply

      • Max says

        Peter,the reason people uses agents is when they don't meet financial requirements. If Lana has the 800k in the bank the day she applies for the "Change of Visa", and have an official place to stay,like a condo, she just need guidance for the paperwork, and she'll get that 5 meters from Jomtien immigration. That will cost her a very small amount of money and that company are in and out of Jomtien immigration all the time all day long.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          Sure. Pretty much every process can be done by yourself; I've been saying that for years. But a lot of people, especially as they get older, find the visa system convoluted and a bit overwhelming and prefer some help. The option is there if they want it.
          Reply

  26. Lana Scott says

    Am considering entering Thailand "visa exempt" and then applying for a non immigrant O. This because of difficulties communicating with my Thai bank for statements, etc.) Any comments on success rate of this method?
    Reply

    • Max says

      If entering on a 30 days Visa exempt,you have a very short window of time to change visa at the local immigration office,you have to start at once (incl transferring 800k to your bank account before applying for the change of visa). In my opinion, it's a bad idea. Apply for a 60 days tourist visa at home. Then you have more time.
      Reply

  27. Peter says

    Can you provide any information regarding travel itinerary and roundtrip tickets. I am planning on entering Thailand on a 90 day visa, and having met the requirements for the 1 year retirement visa, converting to such after 60 days. To enter Thailand on the 90 day visa, I read that a return ticket is required. If I plan to convert to a 1 year visa (renewable), do I still need a roundtrip tickets. Also, once on a retirement visa, leaving the country with a reentry permit, will I be retired to again purchase an onward ticket? Thank you for so much valuable information.
    Reply

  28. Jerry says

    Hello,
    I have a question regarding the 65K THB per month for the financial requirement.
    I did my 1st 1 yr extension of stay in March of the this year using the 800K THB requirement. Im currently depositing the 65K or more monthly into Thai bank, so at the time of my next extension of stay I will have at least 12 consecutive months of deposits.

    My questions
    1) Is there any kind of rule thats says the 12 months deposts need to add up to 800K, or the 65K plus the balance need to add up to 800K?
    2) Will the immigration have a policy that requires the deposts and balance needed to be 800K two months prior to my application?

    Kinda like the map thing, never seen it on an official list but immigration asked for a map to my address at my extension meeting.

    thanks in advance for your advice and wisdom!
    Reply

    • Max says

      When using the monthly deposit method it has to be at least 65k per month. This is not negotiable. You can also use the combination method,meaning a combination of pension and money in the bank. Pension and money in the bank must add up to at least 800k. This method is for some strange reason not accepted in every province. When using the money in the bank method the balance must not go below 800k the first 90 days after the extension, and never below 400k for the next 7 months. Then top it up to 800k 2 months prior to next extension. This is also not negotiable. The map nonsense isn't mandatory in every province.
      Reply

      • Jerry says

        Thanks for the response Max. I think all that is in the guidelines. Let me ask my question a different way.

        If I transferred 67,000 THB for 12 months, the Sum of the 12 transfers would be 804,000 THB. Then I spent 60K a month for living expenses, I would have a balance of 120K in my Thai bank account at the end on my 12 month period.

        So my question is, would that be acceptable to the Thai Immigration official?

        I would have transferred 65K or more into a Thai bank for the 12 prior months, per the posted regulation.

        But I know my interpretation and the Thai Immigration official may not understand it the same way.

        When I read the rule it sounds like they are ok with 12 monthly transfers of "at least" 65K into a "THAI BANK" and the "sum" of those transfers need to be 800K or more.

        Kinda like that famous drawing where there is a pic of an old women and young woman in the same pic, just depends on what you see.

        Thanks for all the help, always appreciated.

        J
        Reply

        • JamesE says

          It depends what you want to do in year #2. What you describe would be enough for a 1 year extension of permission to stay. BUT, if you want to stay longer, you have to A: maintain the 800K฿ for 3 months after your extension is granted AND never go below 400K฿ AND then bring the total back up to 800K 2 months before you go to renew, OR, B: keep transferring in 65K฿ per month for the next 12 months. If you're only planning on staying 1 year then you can spend it down as you propose. If you want to stay longer then you have to continue to maintain your balance or transfer your monthly money.
          Reply

        • Max says

          If you're not going to use the money in the bank method next year and go for monthly deposits,then you don't need to have any money in your account. You need either the 800k or monthly deposits of at least 65k per month when you apply for the 1 year extension (or a combination).This is an annual thing. It doesn't happen just one time.
          Reply

          • Jerry says

            Max & James .. thanks,

            This is for year 2, with all the deposits complete and meeting the 65K or more and 800k total (Non-O visa, for reference and other readers).

            My concern would be about the 12 month banks statements, I go on bangkok bank and can generate a statement as a pdf file with 6 months transactions, I have 12 months data already. Will the immigration officer accept those since they have the bank info, time stamp, and transactions? The transactions would match the passbook he/she will want to see and copy.

            Or, will the immigration officer only accept the 12 month statements I get from the bank branch, which I assume will get the stamp, therefore making it official.

            For me its the same information, but what I think doesn't count, just whatever makes the immigration officer happy so I only make one
            trip.

            Thanks in advance for the feedback
            Reply

            • Max says

              Immigration will not accept any pdf-printouts from a computer. That's not negotiable. Did you read my question about your 12 deposits? Immigration might ask for the source. Transfers from a personal account is not same as a transfer from a pension provider,and immigration might ask for proof of you being retired. This is a well-known fact.
              Reply

              • Jerry says

                How does a 50 & over person prove to a thai immigration person tney are retired.

                Not all people have pensions. I thought 65k and over monthly, adding to 800k yearly into a thai bank from outside thailand into one of the thai banks checked that box.
                Reply

                • Max says

                  "Not all people have pensions."
                  Well,you are actually applying for a visa or an extension of stay based on retirement. You might even have to show proof of being retired when applying for a 90 days Non-immigrant O based on retirement and for the O-A Long Stay Visa.
                  If going for the 800k in the bank method, you don't need any proof of being retired when extending your stay at the local immigration office. When using monthly deposits of at least 65k, immigration might ask for proof of being officially retired (and the source of those deposits). That would be a stamped and signed certificate from your pension provider. Officially,when coming from the US,UK and Australia deposits from a personal bank account back home isn't accepted. People from other countries can still get income letters from their embassies or consulates showing they are retired and have at least 65k/month.
                  Reply

                • JamesE says

                  Proving you're retired, particularly when you're from the US as I am, is a fools errand. Our federal, state, and private "pensions" can all be claimed while still working and none of them will provide an actual signed and stamped letter saying you are so. Even the US SSA will only auto-generate a letter stating your benefits but, and as Max has pointed out before, it's just a PDF and easily forged. So, for me, the ฿65K method is off the table given that my "pension" is a combination of SAA benefits and what I pay myself out of my personal retirement account which would never be accepted as proof.
                  Reply

                  • Jerry says

                    Thanks James,
                    As a US citizen I know SSA, private pensions, do not provide stamped and certified letters, just the pdf generated statements that can be used as proof of income. They usually have a number the other party can call to verify the document is real. Such as a mortgage lender in the US, or Thai Immigration officer, which I don't see happening.
                    You answered my question, is there a scenario where I can use the 65K method, or deposit and lump combo coming from the US where everything these days is mostly automated and pdf generated files that are locked for editing.
                    Like you the SSA, personal income combo does not check the box, then no need to waste time on it.
                    I just wanted to be prepared for the most likely outcome that others have learned from visits like mine.

                    Thanks all for sharing.
                    Reply

                    • Max says

                      Forget everything about pdf documents. They won't be accepted,period,and there are no pdf files that are 100% locked for editing. I can edit pdf files, believe me. It's really easy if you know how to do it. You can always try using your 12 deposits,and they must be foreign,and you still need a 12 months bank statement. You might be lucky, immigration might not ask for the source of the deposits,or ask for proof of being retired, but you need a backup plan if they do. Immigration doesn't care the least about you being American and having problems with obtaining some official proof of being retired. But again,you might be lucky.

  29. Herbert says

    Hello, I am doing research on the retirement visa. By any chance, do you know how long have this type of visa launched? I am curious if the required amount of deposit has ever been changed.

    Very informative sharing of you! Good work!
    Reply

    • Max says

      There's been very few requirement-changes over the years regarding the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement and annual extensions based on retirement from an initial O Visa incl. the sum of 800k in a Thai bank. But there's also the combination method (it's not accepted in every province, though) where you can use a combination of your pension and money in the bank. It has to total 800k per year. It's a good choice if you haven't got 65k per month or 800k in the bank.
      Reply

  30. Joe says

    A simple question if I may. I will be arriving soon on an e-visa printout (Non-O). Do I go directly to the immigration counter as usual, or do I need to locate a special counter for some sort of conformation/activation, etc. Thanks
    Reply

  31. Jerry says

    OK, I arrived on the Non-O for Retirement, long stay. I was given an eVISA from Los Angeles consulate a pdf file I print out. I get the next step is do the extension of stay for the Annual Renewal. I also get the 90 day check-in, money in the bank (i have a bank account already), insurance requirement.

    Here's where I'm stuck ... where do I get the forms, TM7, TM47 etc...
    The other thing I want to know, can I get a "Sticker" visa is my passport Non-O now rather than carry the paper around, or am I stuck with the pdf file forever?

    When I do the 1 year extension of stay, is that where I get the "Single Entry", or "Mult. Entry" visa. For now I put a copy of the pdf file on my phone, no printout.

    According to the consulate site, the 90 day Non-O is single entry, but I want to travel in Asia as it opens and think the multiple entry streamlines the process and removes the "re-entry" paperwork you warn about doing before trips.

    One more question, If I stay in hotels what paperwork should I use to prove my address? In. theory, they (the hotel) report my stay (TM30) directly already .... at least in theory.

    I wanted to thank you for your site, it is my go to site for trying to sort this stuff out as I do my first round of renewals, 90 days check-ins and such.

    After the first complete loop through I think it will make more sense ... 555, if that is possible.

    Thanks Peter
    Reply

    • Max says

      An O-visa is not a long stay,that's the O-A. The Non-immigrant O is just a 90 days visa which after 60 days can be extended another year. So, which visa do you have? The forms you need, you can google and download and fill in using a computer and then print out or go to your local immigration office and get them. The TM47 is the form for your first 90 days report,the TM7 for the 1 year extension and the TM30 for reporting your permanent address in Thailand. There are no single or multi-entry visas when applying for the 1 year extension. If leaving the country you must get a single re-entry permit or a multiple re-entry permit. Otherwise your visa will be void. When you get your 1 year extension you'll get a stamp in your passport. If immigration will replace your current pdf-visa (if it's a 90 days visa) with a stamp is a good question because the eVisa is a quite new thing. You don't need to do anything when it comes to your address when travelling in Thailand, but you need to report your permanent address in Thailand at your local immigration office before the first extension (if your current visa is a 90 days Non-immigrant) using the TM30 form. That's the address you're verifying when you're doing your 90 days report. You can only belong to one immigration office unless you're moving to another province. Then you have to report your new address to the new local immigration office to be able to do the 90 days report and next 1 year extension. Good luck.
      Reply

      • Jerry says

        I have the Non-O visa, an eVisa. I think I confused the visa and the re-entry permit for single or multiple re-entry, thanks for clearing that up. I found the forms online yesterday. Using the quarantine time to find them … 55. Very helpful reply, thanks so much.
        Couple questions, can my permanent address be a hotel until I decide where to live. Not sure of the city yet.
        My eVisa was issued 27 Dec 2021, visa must be used by 26 Mar 2022 are the dates on it. My passport was stamped at BKK… Admitted 26 Jan 2022, Until 25 Apr 2022. Does that mean I file for the 1yr extension in April?

        Somehow I thought the used by date was the date I needed to work to for filing my extension of stay application.

        Sorry about the questions, came here a few times pre covid and did some logistics, setting up a bank acct, doctor, dentist, tried to get a driver license but ran out of time. So this is my first loop through the living here process.

        Again thanks, your reply was extremely helpful.
        Reply

        • Max says

          You can stay in a hotel but you still need to submit the TM30 report before the extension. You need the hotel to give you something official showing you're staying there. It's not about the city, it's about the province. Apply for the extension 55-60 days into your 90 days visa,don't do it later,and your papers need to be in order. Check with immigration you've got what's needed. There will normally be a lot to copy. Are you using the money in the bank method = 800k in your Thai bank account or a monthly deposit of 65k? The 800k must be in the account 2 months prior to the day of application. This is NOT negotiable at immigration, hence very important. No money, no 1 year extension. You also need a bank letter from your bank showing the 800k in the account. It's best if you get the bank letter or bank guarantee as they also call it the same day you apply for the extension. Your bank book must be updated same day. Some immigration offices wants you to do a transaction the same day. Just withdraw 2,000 baht from an ATM before entering the bank. The bank letter cost 100 baht and the extension 1,900 = 2,000 baht.
          Reply

          • Jerry says

            Thanks Max.
            The money part I understand, and the health insurance.

            You said start about roughly 60 days into the 90 days. I’m unsure which date to work to on this.

            My eVisa was issued 27 Dec 2021, visa must be used by 26 Mar 2022 are the dates on it. My passport was stamped at BKK… Admitted 26 Jan 2022, Until 25 Apr 2022. Does that mean I file for the 1yr extension in April?

            Refer to paragragh above. Would my 90 days end on the March 26, 2022, or on the April 25, 2022.

            March is the eVisa date, April is the entry + 90 days stamped at BKK upon arrival.

            When I got the eVisa I thought my 90 days ended in March, but now that I see the stamp from Immigration upon Arrival I’m not so sure I understood the process.

            Did I must need to initiate my first 90 days by March 26, 2022?

            Thanks again,

            J
            Reply

            • Max says

              You start counting from the day of arrival,see the entry stamp. About insurance, there's no mandatory insurance when applying for the 1 year extension on an initial 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa. Immigration won't mention it. But you can of course get one when in Thailand if you want.
              Reply

              • Jerry says

                Thanks Max.
                I think my confusion was that i was interpreting the eVisa use by date as the end date. And having what i thought was a visa end date that ended sooner than the entry stamp end date, seemed to give me confusion. Also i woukd hat to show in April if I should have wormed to the March date.

                Not a great way to start off.

                Thanks for your patience with me.
                Reply

                • Max says

                  eVisa or a normal Visa doesn't matter. Your 90 days started when you arrived at the Suvarnabhumi Airport. Now you're on a so called "permission of stay",it means your visa is used. The same when you extend your stay for another year. It's your permission of stay that's extended, not your Visa. This is a very common misunderstanding among tourists or expats in Thailand.
                  Reply

      • Robert meredith says

        Hi I am looking at moving to thailand in June with an o visa based other fact my wife is thai and my daughter half thai we all live in the UK at the moment..
        I am concerned I don't have enough initially to qualify.
        I have 620000 in kasikorn bank and about £10k to take with me ,
        I will have sold my house when I move and will put £100K into my private pension and after I have move I will have £90k in uk bank I will also have £240 in my private pension but don't want to start using that for about 8 mths I also have barclays bank health insurance which covers covid up to £10 million can you see Any issues
        Thanks robert m
        Reply

        • Max says

          If you're thinking about using the money in the bank method,you do need 800k in your Thai bank account 60 days prior to your application for your 1 year extension. That's not negotiable at immigration. No money no extension. That gives you until one month after your arrival in June to top up your account to 800k.
          Reply

    • Jerry says

      Just thought I would share. That when I did my Extension of Stay on my Non-O Visa, which was an eVisa (pdf file). I did not get a Visa sticker in my passport, just and Extension of Stay stamp saying I can stay one more year. I did my Ext of Stay at Wattana in BKK.
      Reply

  32. Thomas says

    What If I Don't Meet the Financial Requirements?
    Perhaps you don't have an ฿800,000 lump sum of money to put in a Thai bank account, or a monthly income of ฿65,000. In this case you can still meet the financial requirements by combining the two.

    For example, let's say that you earn 50,000 a month. That would equal ฿600,000 a year.

    In this case you would only need to deposit ฿200,000 in your Thai bank account to make up the required ฿800,000. However, you would need to provide both the letter from the bank and the proof of income letter from your embassy

    (British and US nationals are
    Reply

    • Max says

      Yes, the combination method is accepted. And as you said, you need both the bank letter and the income letter from your embassy/consulate. If you can't get an income letter, then you need a 12 months bank statement from your Thai bank showing 12 foreign deposits + the bank letter. (Some immigration offices also wants to know the source of the deposits.) The bank letter just verifies you as the account holder and the balance.
      Reply

    • Max says

      No minimum amount of time as long as the Visa is valid. But why would you go for an O-A Long Stay Visa or an expensive O-X Visa with all the hassle with a mandatory health insurance? If you come to Thailand on a regular basis, the still existing Non-immigrant O is in my opinion the best choice.
      Reply

      • Angus says

        Thanks for that Max , I have an elderly mother who I will most likely need to spend indeterminate amounts of time with over the next few years . If I want to spend the majority of my time in Thailand but have the flexibility to come and go as required I was thinking the retirement visa would be best as tourist visas seem to be capped at 60 to 90 days and I want to live in Thailand ? If there are other options I would be interested to know them ?
        Reply

  34. Jerry says

    If I come in on a 90 Day Non-Immigrant “O” Visa, and stay in hotels until I get a one year extension of stay granted. Do you think that will cause any issues for the “Proof of Address” requirement (Non-O)? My understanding, and “logic” (not always the same in Thailand .. 555) is that the hotels submit the TM 30 (I think is the form) to the immigration department already.
    Reply

  35. Ben says

    Is there a limit on how long you can leave Thailand for in a year (or within a set period of time) and still be eligible for the re-entry stamp/visa, a retirement visa the following year and residency after 3 years ?

    For example, could you leave Thailand for 2 months after every four months in Thailand and still qualify for the re-entry stamp/visa, a retirement visa the following year and residency after 3 years ?

    Cheers
    Reply

    • Max says

      You can officially come and go as you please on 30 days visa exempts,but immigration might not like it if it happens frequency without an explanation. A re-entry permit expires if your, for example 1 year extension expires. You must come back before the extension expires. If leaving the country several times a year while on a "permission of stay", you can apply for a multiple re- entry permit. It cost 3,800 baht. Several entries during a year on 30 days visa exempts won't affect an application for a "permission of stay" (not a visa) based on retirement in the future.
      Reply

  36. Louise says

    Hi, can you tell me if a retirement visa with dependent spouse is possible if you are long term partners not married?
    Also is is possible to start with a visa with a dependent and change to two individual retirement visas when more finance becomes available?
    Thank you for any help
    Reply

  37. Peter says

    Great article thanks
    10-6 years ago an agent did the retirement visa for me each year, I prefer that route so no £25K has to be left in the bank. Is that option still open? And could it be done with just coming in on a tourist visa do you think?
    Reply

    • Max says

      If coming in on a 60 days tourist visa,you can change the visa to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement at the local immigration office. Then extend it 1 year based on retirement. If using an agent (if possible), you have to pay for two applications. Having 400-800k in the bank for immigration issues is quite ok when living here full term. It's not a lot of money and you get interest on the money twice a year. Back home several saving accounts are without any interest what so ever since many years.
      Reply

  38. Earle Gaetz says

    I have a O A retirement visa and have lived here for 16 years. I plan to go back to visit family in Canada for Christmas and return on January 21. My retirement renewal date is February 2. Is there a problem if my re-entry into Thailand is too close to the visa renewal date. I have a valid multi re-entry permit stamp in my passport. Thank you.
    Reply

  40. woody says

    for Retirement visa OX, do I need a criminal record from county or federal?
    I was at LA county court, but charge is 40usd, but I don't want to pay for if Thai consulate asks for different criminal record. I don't know where to get it Please, help
    Reply

    • Max says

      Why would you even consider applying for an O-X Visa? It gives you no benefits in Thailand what so ever. You pay a lot for nothing.On top of that you need an expensive mandatory Thai health insurance which has to be extended annualy. You still have to visit immigration every 90 days. Why not start with a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement from back home? That Visa can after 60 days get extended 12 months. Cost: 1,900 Baht/year. If leaving Thailand you just get a re-entry permit. That way your 'permission to stay' won't expire. Even if it expires and you have to start all over again, it's better (and much much cheaper) than the O-X Visa.
      (About the criminal record, why don't you ask the Thai embassy/consulate in the US?)
      Reply

  42. JamesE says

    I've got a question about the O (Retirement) visa that I have not been able to answer on my own. And that is: Is there a limit to the number of O (Retirement) visas you can get?

    For example, say I was planning to retire in Thailand and wanted a visa that said so. I'm not quite ready yet because of getting the financial requirements in place, but I would like to start getting some things set up like opening a second bank account, and getting a driver's license which can be easier with an O visa than on a TV or visa exemption.

    Would I be allowed to get an O (Retirement) stay my 90 days without extending it and then get another to do similar things or when I make my move in a few years?

    I can't see anything in the rules that would preclude this but also have seen exactly no stories of anyone who has or tried and was refused.

    Thanks.
    Reply

  43. Brian says

    Hi Peter
    I will apply for the Non Immigrant O Visa vs the OA.

    Thanks for help with this.

    This way I do not need a medical certificate or another criminal record check ( with added cost, fingerprinting and Waiting around for the document) and/or less paperwork as you have mentioned in one of your posts.
    I have bought an annual inbound mid cost insurance policy through Mr Prakan for $1500 Canadian vs the Cost of insurance in Canada.
    Do I need to get additional health insurance on top of this?
    Thanks Brian
    Reply

  44. Lara says

    My husband is going to get another year of retirement visa and I (under 50, not Thai) want to piggy back on his retirement visa. (I'm currently on ed visa.) As far as I know, I don't need to provide 800k bank statement in my own Thai account. Is that correct?

    I've heard some people say that in order to get a dependent visa, I also need my financial proof, but I haven't read about this information anywhere.

    Thank you.
    Reply

    • Max says

      No, you don't need any financial proof what so ever. But from 50 years of age (or if it is 51, I'm not sure) you can't piggy back on your husband anymore. FYI, your husbands "Permission to stay" is extended another year, it's not a Visa.
      Reply

        • Max says

          Just write something saying you're applying for the extension as a dependant on your retired husband xxxxxxxxx. 'Kind of visa' is the visa you arrived on.
          Depending on where you're staying in Thailand and the local immigration office,they might ask for a legalized marriage license. This is now a requirement at Jomtien immigration in Pattaya. This is new from this year, but I don't know if the requirement is nationwide. I read about it at Pattaya City Expats Club's website. Google pcec pattaya
          Reply

  45. Rich Platts says

    Proof of funds and or proof of income (letter from bank/embassy). Bank letter cannot be more than 3 days old. If using the lump sum application route, you'll need an updated photocopy of your bank book page that shows the balance. Obviously take your bank book along too.

    I have been told that this has been changed to the letter being dated the day or your visa renewal. Which is correct?

    Thanks.
    Reply

    • Max says

      Everything is up to the local immigration office. Several offices wants the bank letter to be dated the same day as the day of extension or the day before. The bank book has to be updated the same day and show same balance as the bank letter. If using bank book copies for the lump sum method you need to copy the first page with name and account number + 12 months back until the last 1 year extension. But if using the bank book it must have been updated on a regular basis. If not, some deposits and or withdrawals might be combined. Meaning, you won't see every deposit and withdrawal. This is something immigration don't like, and a 12 months bank statement must be obtained. I know for sure there are immigration offices which doesn't allow bank book copies. I don't know where you're staying.
      Reply

  47. Jan Lund says

    Extension of stay ( Retirement ) with EU wife to be prolonged soon. Do I have to provide local I.O. with a new legalised marriage cert from overseas ( as a prove, that we are still married ) again as I had to in the first place?
    Thank You for Your piece of mind.
    Reply

  48. Scott j Johnson says

    I was thinking of retiring to Thailand on the Non Immigrant O Visa, I am 57. But I still have 2 dependents under 18. Can they also enter on this or would I need to do the O-A visa ? And on each of these, is the initial amounts required to be in deposit in the bank mean your bank in your home country?
    Reply

    • Max says

      There's no difference between an O and an O-A Visa based on retirement when it comes to dependent visas. You must apply for one of the visas. If possible stay away from the O-A because of the mandatory thai health insurance. Go for the 90 days Non-immigrant O which is extendable 1 year at the time. Your kids must apply for dependant visas, they will piggy back on your visa (the permission to stay actually). For the O-A Visa you must have the equivalent of 800k baht in a bank back home. For the O Visa you need 800k baht in a thai bank account. You need to wait until it goes back to normal visa-wise and no quarantines,though. It might happen Q4, but most likely next year.
      Reply

  49. ray goodwin says

    Hi, Sorry for using wrong forum . My request to embassy in canberra was about obtaining a visa for 4 to 6 months, with the ability to travel to vietnam during my stay. They recommended the Non - immigrant O (retirement ) visa. But yes, they informed me that this would indeed necessitate a certificate of health insurance from a Thai insurance company. This will allow me to stay 12 months with multiple entries. Thanks for your input, I just wanted to be sure about the bank set up. PS Just a trial retirement, I all goes well, I will explore further . Cheers Ray. pps love your site.
    Reply

    • Max says

      Going for an O-A Visa when you just want a 4-6 months trip is just wasting a lot of money. That's not a sound advice from the Thai Embassy. It would be a very expensive 4-6 months,that I assure you. Wait until everything goes back to normal and arrive on a 60 days tourist visa and change it to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement as long as you have 800k in a thai bank account. That Visa can be extended 1 year after 60 days into the 90 days Non-immigrant O. You can leave the country and come back as long as you apply for a re-entry permit. It cost 1000 baht for a single re-entry and 3800 baht for a multiple. If just using the 60 days tourist + the 90 days Non-immigrant O,you have 5 months. That's what you asked for at the Thai Embassy. You can even extend the 60 days another 30 days at the local immigration office for 1900 baht. Then you've got 90+90 days = 6 months. But this is only possible when/if everything goes back to normal.
      Reply

      • JamesE says

        If all you want is 4-6 months your best bet is a pair of Tourist visas. One for your entry from Oz and one when you come in from Vietnam. Max nails the O-process and it's way more complicated than you need to get for that kind of trip. Be aware that for the foreseeable future travel as you describe is off the table. Thailand will require a 8 - 11 - 15 night quarantine every time you enter and Vietnam is essentially shut down to tourists right now. Check back in 6 months.
        Reply

      • ray goodwin says

        OK, Thanks , the tourist visa seems the way to go. Trouble is when you get old, you look for a degree of certainty . Applying for extensions etc sounds a bit hit and miss. However, it seems that is not the case. I will take your advise. Of course everything is Covid dependent. I am hoping for early next year. Thanks again , Ray.
        Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Yes, please see my previous reply on the OA visa post. You get the O-A visa from your home country, and it is there you show your bank statement to the embassy to prove your finances. The O-A visa has the advantage of being able to activate another year if you leave and re-enter before the expiration date.
      Reply

    • Max says

      If it's your first year then you can leave before the permission to stay expires using a re-entry permit and then get a second year when coming back. One question: Why do you want an O-A Visa when one requirement is a Thai health insurance which has to be extended every year and cost a lot, especially if you are 65+?
      Reply

    • JamesE says

      The answer is "Both". Your visa's validity starts with its entry into your passport and the permitted stay begins upon your entry into Thailand. The difference isn't as critical with the retirement visas because both are a year. But if you go for a multi-entry visa (which you don't really want to consider right now due to quarantine requirements) and are planning on using Thailand as your base for travel, it's something you want to keep track of.
      Reply

  53. Brian T Addley says

    Hello,
    First off, thank you for this information, it's very helpful. I do have a question though. My wife and I are hoping to retire in Thailand next year and while I understand the financial requirements for doing so, I"m not clear if the money required is per person or per couple. I can easily manage the financial requirements if it's for both of us, if we have to double the amount I'm not sure.
    Thanks in advance for any input on the matter.
    Reply

    • JamesE says

      Everything is per-person. The financial requirement needs to be in an account solely owned by each applicant. (If Max weighs in he may know of a way around this.) Your best bet might be for one of you to use the retirement visa path and the other to come in on a dependent visa. Or scrap the retirement visa idea and use the money you'll save on insurance to get a Family Elite visa.
      Reply

          • Max says

            Mary, you can start with a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement from your home country and then extend it 1 year at the time at the local immigration office as long as you meet the financial requirements. No insurance needed. That's by far the cheapest and easiest way. A 1 year extension cost 1900 baht.
            Reply

          • JamesE says

            Max's solution is the best - come in on a different visa and change it to a Non-Imm O by reason of retirement from inside Thailand. Currently that has no insurance requirement. However, Thailand has been expanding the insurance requirement to additional classes of visas over the past few years so there's no guarantee that won't happen to the retirement O. Also *all* allowed visas currently require COVID coverage - even the Visa Exemption entry. Most of that coverage also gets more difficult to acquire with age.
            Reply

            • Max says

              If you enter using a 90 days Non-immigrant O based on for example retirement, the insurance incl.covid-cover just have to be valid 90 days. A 90 days travel insurance is not expensive. There's only been one change regarding insurances for many years, and that's the one for the O-A visa incl.extensions starting October 31 2019.
              Reply

              • TheThailandLife says

                The official pathway is to get the Non O Visa (single entry) from your local embassy and then do the extension inside Thailand. You'll need the time to set up your Thai bank account and have the funds deposited for 60 days before you apply for the extension. You can go from a tourist visa to a retirement extension.
                Reply

                  • TheThailandLife says

                    At the moment you would need the COVID cover, but that may not be a requirement by next year, who knows. You can avoid the general health insurance requirement if you come over on the Non O 90-day visa and then do the retirement extension at immigration.
                    Reply

                  • Max says

                    If you already have a bank account, then go for the 90 days Non-immigrant Visa based on retirement. That's by far the easiest and cheapest way to do it. You just need 800k in the bank 2 months prior to the application for the 1 year extension. You MUST have the O Visa at the time of application to get rid of the mandatory health insurance requirement. Just having the money in the bank won't help. If a covid-19 insurance is still needed next year, you just need it to cover 90 days. That's all. I think a vaccination certificate/passport will be available late this year or early next year.
                    Reply

              • JamesE says

                Yes, but... All visas and visa waiver entries require COVID health coverage which is usually (I don't know of any COVID-only policies) issued as part of a travel health plan. Based on your initial comment this is your concern. Coming in on the shortest possible visa will make for the lowest possible health coverage (it only has to be as long as your "stay"). Currently the 60-day SETV (IMO) would be the way to go. 7 - 14 days in quarantine. 3 days to get the bank sorted out. Move the 800K. Get a lease. Get an extension to the SETV and a couple weeks before it expires apply for the Non-O. There is one gotcha: You'll need to come in on a return ticket showing your "departure plan" so you'll need to make accommodations to either reschedule or cancel it. Just another box to tick.
                Reply

                • Max says

                  If you're answering Mary's post, she is not coming this year. The mandatory quarantine will not be necessary when people get vaccinated and have their certificates/vaccin passports in order. This will for sure happen next year.
                  Reply

                  • JamesE says

                    Do tell about the "vaccine passport"... My reading suggests that it is still just a proposal waiting for the tooth fairy - er... WHO - to come up with standards. And insurance before entry is going to become a fact of life. There's too much money for the insurance industry and it is too powerful a national and global lobby to let that money be pulled. I think, based on where the chips fell, that the current shortened quarantine model will be in effect through the year-end, if and when a vaccine passport arrives it will initially be accompanied by an insurance requirement.
                    Reply

                    • TheThailandLife says

                      Surely COVID insurance will just be merged under travel insurance or any other health policy. If confidence in the vaccine is high then COVID will just be another potential illness along with other covered under a standard policy. In the interim we have this extra insurance, but I can't see how that will be justifiable long term. Although I do fear the "COVID economy" will be kept going by those with financial interest: tracking apps, PPE gear, masks, "work safe" consultancies, etc.

                    • JamesE says

                      (Not sure *where* this will show up in the thread stack...) I agree with you that the COVID specific policy will go away but the not the requirement for coverage. I'm also a big fan of the Law of Unintended Consequences which hasn't even gotten started. The knock-on effects of the past year will be enormous and the dominoes haven't started dropping. (Enough metaphors...) Just consider one thing: affordable tourist airfares have always been supported by expensive business travel. Over the past year Zoom, Skype, Meets, etc. have shown businesses that expensive business travel isn't needed. That's going to be huge. However the new normal turns out it will be completely different than where the old normal peaked in 2019.

                    • Max says

                      The thai government has already accepted the proposal of a vaccin certificate/passport. They are just waiting for it to become a standard. It can be a yellow book or/and digital. There will be no covid-19 insurances, that part is covered in the standard travel insurance. There's no conspiracy between insurance companies abroad when it comes to covid-19.

              • Max says

                It's a two step procedure if you enter on a 60 days tourist visa. First, after ~30 days you must change your Visa from tourist to a 90 days Non-immigrant. Cost 2000 baht. Second, after ~60 days you can apply for the 1 year extension. Cost 1900 baht. The most important thing is the thai bank account. If going for the money in the bank method, you'll need 800,000 baht in the account the day you change visa, and 2 months prior to the extension. If you don't have a bank account when entering Thailand, you need to go for the visa change to be able to open an account in time. If needed you can extend the stay another 30 days to get the account and transfer the money before changing the visa.
                Reply

          • Gary Farmer says

            You could take the Non O route by obtaining the long term Visa once in Thailand having entered on one of the short term visas. The advantage of obtaining it in Thailand is there is no obligation for health insurance. There are other requirements such as the bank deposit to consider but atleast it is a way around the Insurance issue needed when the visa is issued anywhere out side of the Kingdom.
            Reply

    • Max says

      If you're talking about the money in the bank method = 800k, then it's 800k per person. But, both of you don't have to apply for the 1 year extension based on retirement. If "you" have the money and meet the financial requirements, you will apply for the 1 year extension and your wife applies for an extension based on dependency. She will actually piggy back on you. You start with a Visa from back home and when it's time to apply for 1 year extensions you will apply for different reasons, you based on retirement and your wife based on being dependent on you. You can read about this online or talk to the embassy/consulate in your home country. This is by far the best way to do it, and you save a lot of money. But don't forget about the pandemic. No one knows when it goes back to normal and when you can apply for visas without quarantine.
      Reply

    • Bob says

      There are three options.

      1. Per person, so both of you have a separate and independent visa.

      2. One of you has a retirement visa, and the other partner applies for a visa as a dependant. This reduces the deposit requirement.

      3. Use an agent, no deposit account requirement. Costs roughly 14,000 baht per visa.

      I would also suggest that you come to Thailand on a tourist visa and apply for a retirement visa in Thailand. This eliminates the health insurance requirement, which for whatever reason "sticks" for each extension to a retirement visa obtained outside of Thailand.
      Reply

      • JamesE says

        It's also important to remember that the visa situation is in flux right now. Some embassies are issuing retirement visas and some aren't. The Thai Embassy in the US is and has added the Non-Immigrant Category O (retirement) visa with no financial requirement but with health and COVID insurance requirements. My guess is that this is to encourage people to come to Thailand and start spending while they build up the finances to meet the 800K฿ requirement for the annual extension. There is no indication that the insurance requirement sticks to this visa like the O-A and O-X, but there also isn't any mention that it does not. The insurance requirement has been encroaching on retirement visas in general so may have reached this one at last. If your plans don't mature until next year keep checking this space... It will all be different by then.
        Reply

        • Max says

          The health insurance including the covid-19 covering $100,000 is just needed for the first 90 days. When applying for the 1 year extension based on retirement at the local immigration office, there are no requirements for any kind of insurance. Regarding the mandatory health insurance for the O-A and O-X, there are no changes.
          Reply

          • JamesE says

            We're talking oranges and tangerines here, Max. You're assuming they would come in on a TV and extend based on retirement once in country. My comments were about getting the non-O based on retirement in the US. I agree your way is the way to go for most people with the caveat that the extension (particularly with regard to new applications) could have an insurance requirement added at any time.
            Reply

  54. WALTER TODD says

    hello; i speak to you as a long term chiang mai expat. it gives me no extra rights. i only mention it to establish a level playing field. i have been using a local visa agency for the past several years. all has gone well until this year. i realize point a to point be is not always a straight line: 1) what is the deal with the letter from the bank? since it is a fairly new requirement added a couple of years ago, has there been a change i don't know about? 2) i am over 70 years old, does that give me any priority privileges with immigration? respond if you have recently been through the beloved ritual of renewing your 1 year retirement visa. thanks rem
    Reply

    • Gary Farmer says

      Hello Walter, I renewed my visa in Sakon Nakhon 2 weeks ago and requires printed bank statements and a bank letter at the cost of 100baht each. I believe the letter serves only to confirm the statements are belonging to your account and that you have sufficient funds in the account to meet the financial requirements for your particular visa application. They use of visa agents placing money in ac counts then removing it was the reason I was given for these bank related documents as Immigration wanted to see when funds entered and exited the account and where the funds came from . I was also asked to fill in a separate form asking for my monthly income despite having the required sum already in my account for the past 18 months. The letter and bank prints only took 10 minutes to produce as long as your Immigration office accepts 6 month statement s and doesnt need the 12 months which only your original Bank branch will supply .
      Reply

      • Max says

        There are no borrowed money transfers from agents to applicants accounts anymore. That was years ago. When using an agent the requirement about having the needed money in the bank goes away. That's what you are paying for. The problem is that you might have to use an agent for the next annual extension as well because of the money you didn't have the year before. The part where you mentioned a form about your monthly income when you're using the money in the bank method must be a mistake from the immigration officer. Those are two totally different methods and have nothing to do with each other.
        Reply

    • Bob says

      Hi,

      If you are using an agent then you will not have an issue with the extra paperwork.

      There has been no changes to the law since the 800/400 bullshit was introduced a couple of years ago. However the official in your face can introduce his/her extra requirements to show that you are complying with the rules.

      Until last year the same official was happy with the bank book, copy of every page and a letter from the bank. Last year the twat decided to require six months statement from the bank. So back to the bank.

      The year before suddenly he wanted a photograph of me outside my rented bunch. That meant a 50 kms round trip. That's after the same officer had issued me 12 consecutive annual extensions without a damn photograph.

      Most of the money you pay an agent goes directly to bribe the immigration department to issues a visa extension without these checks and overlook the 800/400 requirement. "At the discretion of the officer" is the get out clause to make the illegal become legal.

      I am on the verge of using an agent because I am am fed up with dealing with these self-serving arrogant pricks.
      Reply

    • Max says

      There are no changes regarding the 1 year extension based on retirement since January 1 2019. Those changes affected applicants from the US,UK and Australia. Those countries embassies stopped issuing income letters and a 12 months bank statement is needed to show monthly deposits if you're using that method. You also need the usual bank letter from your branch confirming your account. There are no privileges what so ever because of old age. You didn't mention why you had a problem using an agent this year. Chiang Mai immigration is well known for having their own rules when it comes to extensions.
      Reply

  56. Ron Kortsep says

    Peter, I would like to go to Thailand next Jan ,Feb and March. Can I stay say 28 days in Jan go to say Cambodia for say 4 days come back and do the same thing end of Feb and come back for March without a visa ? Last Feb I went for 6 weeks left after 28 days to Cambodia for 3 days and came back for the last 2-3 weeks there were no problems at immigration.
    Reply

    • Max says

      Are you talking about next year? "If" everything goes back to normal including visas, you can enter Thailand by land twice during a calendar year, and each time get 30 days at the border. Those 30 days can be extended another 30 days at the local immigration office.
      Reply

    • Bob says

      It is impossible to give any answer.

      The regulations surrounding COVID determine what will be possible, and these can change daily, without any warning.

      My best guess is that cross border tourism with Cambodia will not be possible until at least 3Q 2022.
      Reply

        • Bob says

          Hi Ron,

          The outlook for international travel is looking bleak. I am currently "Red Zoned" in Chonburi, which means I can't get back home without permission. And if I did manage to escape, the current requirements in the province I live in are a COVID test and two weeks quarantine.

          With luck I will be "Orange Zoned" next week. I am not sure what extra freedom that gives me. If I can at least get to BKK it will be a nice change of scenery from the ghost city I am now in.

          Anyway, Thailand has ordered enough vaccine to give roughly 17 million Thais two shots by early next year. Realistically that means less than 25% of the population by February 2022. The Thai government has already said that the borders will remain almost shut until all Thais have been vaccinated.

          There is absolutely no way that you will be able to border hop to extend a tourist visa in early 2022. However, immigration is currently extending tourist visas in-country which will probably continue, which might be an option.

          The outlook is dismal for 2022.

          Try planning for 2023.

          And if that hasn't depressed you, try this,

          https://capx.co/close-the-borders-now-there-wont-be-a-second-chance/

          I think I need a pack of Prozac.
          Reply

          • Ron Kortsep says

            Hi Bob, Thank you for the update on what's happening there. Actually I'd rather not border hop if I don't have to. I'll look into seeing if I can get a 3 month tourist visa in the fall for early 2022. I was hoping I can avoid that visa process if possible. I'd like to get out of the winter months where I live now in the US northeast. Thailand is my first choice but if it's not reopened by then I'll try another country. Almost all other countries allow 3 months without a visa needed.
            Reply

            • Max says

              At the moment you can forget about visas other than the STV or 60 days tourist visas. Those includes quarantine. We have to see when they will lift the emergency decree in Thailand and when it can go back to "normal" again. It will take a while because of paranoid authorities. By the way,there's no 3 months tourist visa. 90 days visas are Non-O visas. I would go for a 60 days tourist visa whis is extendable 30 days at the local immigration office. You can also do a border hop and get another 30 days when coming back. But again, this will only happen when/if everything goes back to "normal". Just be patient.
              Reply

      • JamesE says

        India is a bit different. It seems like you must go through an approved agent (www.vfs-thailand.co.in) for tourist visas. both the 90-day STV and 60-day single entry TV are shown. India's Visa Waiver participation is different, too: you get 90-days on a visa exemption arrival. The only thing that appears to be different in the application process is that the COE is applied for after you already have a visa. Your best bet, as always, is to contact the Embassy or Consulate that services your state. Good luck.
        Reply

  58. Richard says

    In transferring from WP visa to a Retirement visa, does "proof of address" have to be with a Lease/Tenancy agreement?

    Has anyone any experience where proof of address can/is be substantiated by Bank/Services bills and statements?

    Understand that premises and owner ID are required, of the "address" but we have no formal agreement.
    Reply

    • Max says

      There's no such thing as a wp-visa, you maybe have a Non-B (business) or an extension based on marriage with a wp. You are actually just changing the reason for the extension to one based on retirement. If you don't have a lease/contract, but renting from a Thai, you just need copies from that persons blue house book and thai ID-card, both sides. Then each copy has to be signed at the bottom in blue ink. It won't hurt if you also have a recent utility bill showing the same address.
      Reply

  60. Bob says

    The immigration officer can also require other documents according to his whims, or generally to exert a bit of power. My local office also requires

    1. A map showing location of residence (always been required)

    2. GPS coordinate of residence (which I write on the map) (required for last four extensions)

    3. Photo of me outside residence (required for last two extensions)

    4. Statement from bank covering last six months (last extension)

    I am now seriously considering using an agent to do the extensions. It costs about 15,000 Baht which includes the re-entry permit. I do not want to go this route, as the agent apparently only gets a couple of thousand with the rest going into the pockets of the corrupt immigration officers.

    But it will save me getting wound up as the clown demands some other item. Last year I was forced to make a 40 kms round trip just to get the damn photo of me outside the residence. And then this year a 10 kms round trip to the bank to get the additional statement.
    Reply

  61. John says

    I was not aware of the full bank requirements and allowed my account to drop well below the 400000 baht threshold within 3 months of getting my retirement visa. My retirement visa is due for renewal very soon and I did top up my account above 800000 almost 6 months ago. What is likely to happen when I renew due to my stupidity?
    Reply

    • Max says

      It will depend on the immigration office and the mood of the immigration officer. They can reject your application. You need to show copies of your bank book 12 months back or use a 12 months bank statement. The "new" rule about not going below 400k during 90 days after the application came March 1 2019, so it's a bit wrong to say it's very new.
      Reply

    • Bob says

      Difficult to give a clear answer, as these issues are solely dependent on the office and officer sitting in front of you.

      According to the rules you will not get an extension.

      I extended in July and the officer this year required a bank statement going back six months (so I had to go back to the bank) and a copy of all the pages in the deposit book and a letter from the bank confirming the balance on the day. He then checked the book.

      I would go as soon as possible, wear very smart clothes, and have an envelope with say THB 1k inside. If he says he cannot extend the visa, then plead ignorance and COVID, offer profuse apologies, and ask if anything could be done this time. If it goes along the lines, "well, maybe if you can help me too" slide the envelope over the desk.

      If that fails, then get in contact with an agent. They charge around 15,000 Baht but can get it sorted.

      Or go straight to an agent.
      Reply

      • Bob says

        Last week I know someone who had to pay 15,000 Baht, naturally without receipt, to immigration in order to get an extension. His account had dropped to around 750,000 just a few weeks before the extension was due, and was topped up immediately he knew.

        Another guy I was told paid 30,000.

        You might find it less stressful if you use an agent to do it for you.
        Reply

  62. Tara says

    Hello, and thank you for this article. What if it's the wife that is over 50 years old, but her husband is younger than 50? And if that husband supports his wife, can he still be considered her dependent as long as she opens a Thai bank account in her own name?
    Reply

  63. RG says

    Hi thank you for your informative post. I have my non immigrant O visa. I will extend to a year next month. Firstly I’m confused about the non immigrant O-A, if that is what I get when I extend for a year? Also on insurance...Do I need to show up at immigration with an insurance policy? I have global coverage through my existing insurance provider. How can I know if that will be sufficient? I got a quote from Cigna through the link you provided and they quoted me a silver policy which seems much more than I need. Thanks! RG
    Reply

    • Max says

      No insurance needed if your visa is a Non-O, and it will always be a Non-O. An O-A can only be obtained in your home country. No one at immigration will ask for an insurance and keep your foreign insurance. Don't wait until your visa expires, you can apply for the extension 30 days early at every immigration office,at a few even 45 days early.
      Reply

  64. Nancy says

    Us a U.S. Citizen currently living in Thailand with my husband (he has a non-immigrant OA extension of stay based on retirement visa and I have non-immigrant O dependency visa). While we are still here in Thailand (we have no plans on leaving anytime soon), can we apply for a 10 year extension of stay based on retirement, Visa type OX? We are both over 50 years old and meet all of the requirements for the OX visa. In my research there’s conflicting information as to whether or not we can apply for that visa while we are currently living in Thailand. If it is possible, will we need to travel to Bangkok?
    Reply

    • Max says

      You can only apply for an O-A or O-X in your home country. If not leaving Thailand, your husband must keep extending the stay 1 year at the time, so do you. This is also the cheapest way of staying, 2x 1900 baht/year and only your husband needs the money in the bank or monthly income (and a health insurance). If I were you, I would keep doing it the way you do now.
      Reply

  65. bob says

    Thanks for a really interesting article, I am interested in doing the retirement visa and happy with tghe requirements, My partner would be doing the dependants visa, what is the situation with children? We have a Yacht in Asia and would be moving it to Thailand to live on?
    Can c children be attached to the visa or do they need a different type?
    Reply

    • Max says

      I don't have a clue about rules and regulations if living on a yacht. I have a gut feeling the address must be a fixed one (on land) because you belong to the immigration office in the province where your address is registered. Kids also need their own visas, a dependancy visa same as your wife. Talk to the Thai embassy/consulate in your country.
      Reply

    • Max says

      I forgot to ask you, if you know about the current situation in Thailand with closed borders because of the Covid-19? There's probably no chance you will be able to arrive in Thailand this year. You have to wait until it goes back to "normal", meaning no need for 14 days expensive quarantine for your whole family etc etc.
      Reply

        • James E says

          Sounds like a wager... Terms: 1) Quarantine-free entry. 2) Countries/regions allowed in (at a minimum): EU, UK, AUS, China, Japan, North America. 3) All visas/visa-waiver entries allowed. The Bet: Dinner for four (like your wife would let you go without her...) at Hong Bao.
          Reply

      • Max says

        Bob was asking about the possibility to live on a yacht while on a retirement visa, not visiting as a tourist cruising up and down the coast. I know people living on rafts,but they never move, hence they have a permanent address.
        Reply

        • James E says

          Right. But the websites I linked to provide info specific to yachts. Typically ports of entry have their own immigration and customs offices. In many of the countries I have sailed to, moving ports merely required clearing out of one port and then notifying the authorities when arriving in a new port. I don't have specific experience in Thailand but when needing a "permanent" address it was just typically the marina's at which I was moored or a shore-side mail handling service.
          Reply

  66. Bob says

    From your description

    "How to Renew Your Retirement Visa
    Your retirement visa (extension of stay based on retirement) will last for one year. But don't wait until that year is almost up before you start planning to renew it. In fact, you can renew your visa up to 45 days before it expires.

    Remember that you need to ensure that your Thai bank account balance does not fall below the ฿800,000 threshold three months prior to renewing your visa. "

    I thought it was TWO months before extending the visa.

    (I presume this is the day on which the visa extension is stamped in the passport, not the date from which it is valid)
    Reply

    • Max says

      The money has to be in the bank 2 months prior to the day you apply. You can apply for the 1 year extension 30 days before it expires, even up to 45 days at some immigration offices. Never wait until it expires if some requirements have changed. I always extend mine 30 days early.
      Reply

  67. Philip Robinson says

    I have a retirement visa obtained by using the 800,000Bht lump sum method my extension is due Dec 2020 when i want to go down the 65,000Bht month income method I will have a updated bank acc book and 12 months statements showing a regular pension income going into my account. As i will still have 800,000 Bht in my account how do i tell immigration that i want to change from lump sum to income. I want to ensure this is okay as next year i don't want restrictions on how much money i keep in my account
    Reply

    • Max says

      You don't have to tell immigration anything. You must have at least 400k in your account the day you apply for the 1 year extension based on a monthly income of at least 65k. You need the bank letter from your Thai bank, the bank book showing international transfers and a 12 months bank statement showing regular monthly international deposits. That's all. Plus the usual stuff like copies from your passport etc.
      Reply

  68. S. V. Boykins says

    Hello,
    Your information is very helpful. I'm hoping you can assist with a question I have been trying to answer for a little while. Are there any exceptions for the age requirement? I am a 42 years old, disabled, combat veteran, retired from the military. I meet all other requirements set forth except for age. Is this an area with any leniency or consideration for extenuating circumstances? I have all the required supporting documents (notarized by the embassy) showing service connection and banking information readily accessible.
    Thank you in advance.
    Reply

    • Max says

      The answer is a big NO. There are no exceptions what so ever regarding the age. 50 years of age is a must when going for the retirement visa. That I can assure you. If you have 500,000 baht, you can apply for The Thailand Elite Visa. It's valid 5 years, and can be extended. Next option is getting married to a Thai lady, but first you need to find one, and it's not that easy. It will also take some time. Check out the Thailand Elite Visa website:
      https://www.thailandelite.com/?locate=en
      Are you in Thailand now? If not, you can forget about Thailand for quite a while because of the Covid-19.
      Reply

  69. MIKE ALBANESE says

    Hi Peter
    Quick question. Im here in Thailand on a multi-entry OA retirement Visa. I arrived this year January 31 2020. I used my bank account from my home country to show the Embassy since I didnt have a Thai account.

    I opened an account in February but did do the 65,000 Baht transfers or put 800K Baht in either. In July I just started doing the 65,000 transfers ut I'm reading I need 12 months to show Immigration.

    Did I read correctly I can put 800K in my Thai account 3 months prior to my extension? Thanks for any help. Cheers.
    Reply

    • Max says

      Is this your first entry using your O-A Visa? Normally,people with O-A Visas do a border run to a neighbouring country just before it expires, and on re-entry gets the second year for free. But now with the borders closed and no one knows when they open again, you "might" have to extend it at your local immigration office from about 30 days before it expires. You need 800k in a Thai bank account 2 months prior to the application. Then you must not go below 800k for the next 90 days. After that not below 400k until next 1 year extension when you have to top it up to 800k again. And you'll need the mandatory health insurance when applying because of the initial O-A Visa.
      Reply

    • James E says

      You've got another option which is to combine your 65KBaht monthly with the bank deposit. So July - January = 7 x 65K = 455KBaht. That can work as a credit against your 800K requirement so you would only need 345K in the bank. Thereafter you can go with the 65K/Mo method by itself. There are, of course, some gotchas with this method. First is that you have to have your bank show that they were foreign transactions with a letter (read through Max's comments below (and in the Transferwise thread) as he discusses this in detail). Second, unless the money is coming from a prior year's income, you may have to prove that you paid taxes in your home country on the money you transferred.
      Reply

      • Max says

        Normally immigration wants to see 12 monthly foreign deposits + an amount in a Thai bank to be able to use the combination method. BUT, everything depends on the immigration office. Several will say no, of that I'm sure, but you never know. Asking at the local immigration office won't hurt.
        Reply

  70. Richard Julius says

    I entered Thailand on the 20th of Jan 2020, on a 30 day tourist visa then Keyvisa in Pattaya provided me with a 90day and a 12 month retirement OA visa I have a self funded pension income of 80,000bht per month. I believe Keyvisa applied for my Visa based on 800,000bht in the bank, they were not forthcoming with much detail, and have not since unfortunately and I moved straight to Udonthani.
    So I had to change address details and ultimately bank branch as well. I also had to make application for multi entry as they did apply for this either which I paid them for. I had to do this remotely as I was already booked on a flight to Udonthani 2 days after my application and had to send my passport back the Keyvisa in Pattaya for them to complete!
    I have not held the required amount of 800,000bht in my account as I wanted to do it based on monthly income which I also told them. Unfortunately as said previously Keyvisa did not give me much detail!
    I have held 400,000bht in my account since then. When I apply for my first retirement visa extension will they reject it because I did not have the 800,000bht for 2 months after my arrival?
    My pension is a self funded retirement (SFR) pension so I don't believe the Australian Embassy will be able to verify it through the Australian Government. I can show related documentation of the SFR pension.
    Thanks in advance for your response 🙂
    Reply

    • Max says

      Why didn't Key Visa give you the correct info?
      First of all: Your initial visa can't be a Non-immigrant O-A. An O-A Visa can only be obtained in your home country. You have a 1 year extension based on a Non-immigrant O Visa.
      Secondly: If you used the money in the bank method, you MUST keep 800k in the bank for 90 days after the application (not after arrival) and then never below 400k until next 1 year extension if you're going to change to the monthly income method. If still going for the 800k in the bank, you must top up the money to 800k again 2 months prior to the application. Yes, Jomtien Immigration can reject your next application if you didn't keep 800k or more, in the bank for 90 days. Didn't Key Visa inform you about this?? If they didn't (and you're 100% sure) you have to take it up with them. This can be a big problem. Because of the non-existing income letter from your embassy you need to show 12 months of deposits (>65k/month) using a bank statement from your Thai bank,and they have to be foreign.
      Reply

  71. Pauline Cornell says

    I have a Retirement Visa of 0ne year. I have prescribed medical drugs as I have a lung disease, Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease. I leave Thailand once a year, every 6 months, to go home to Canada and upon my return to Thailand I am advised the laws of Thailand allow me only a one month supply of doctors prescribed drugs. Is there any way, any law, that says I can be excepted from the law and therefore keep my 6 months of meds. Also, I have a Doctor's letter stating the drugs are not narcotics and are only address my lung disease and other such problems. Thank you. I am hoping someone knows of an exemption for cases such as mine.
    Reply

    • James E says

      There are two options. If you're in the UK you can apply for an O-A or O-X visa both of which come with financial, health, background, and insurance requirements. A better option (look through the comments for posts by Max) is to come in to Thailand using a different visa (eg. METV), get it converted to an O Based on Retirement and then (for now anyway) you'll only be burdened with meeting the 800KBaht financial requirements.
      Reply

  73. Kei Kimpara says

    I have been on Retirement Non Immigration "O" Visa for past 3 years with Baht800K in my Thai saving account . However, from this year, I plan to extend the visa based with my Pension (over Baht 65,000 per month) instead of Baht 800K per year. So, I spent over Baht 400K from the Baht 800K from my saving account leaving the balace less then Bahts 400K. Now, I have been told (by Visa arranging private company on my behalf) that since I violated keeping at least Baht400K for the whole year, the immigration Office will not extend my Visa. Not only that, it would be difficult to get a new Retirement Visa even if I apply the visa from outside of Thailand since I violated the immigration law. Did anyone had the same case in the past? If anyone could provide me useful advice, I would very much appreciate it.
    Reply

    • Max says

      Why did you go below 400k? The new requirements from March 1 2019 clearly states that you need to keep 800k in the bank 3 months after the application and then never go below 400k for the next 7 months until next 1 year extension when you have to top it up to 800k 2 months prior to the application. This is crystal clear, and there's been reports about people applying for the extension being denied. You have to start over again by leaving the country (but now it's not possible to do a border run because of the Emergency decree), but you might also be on overstay because you did violate the immigration law. Did immigration give you a hard No? I don't know if an agent can help you, but at the moment during the visa/extension amnesty the routines have changed. Just ask around. Where are you staying?
      Reply

  74. Fred Prager says

    Probably missed this but what is the up to date list of documents required for renewal of the so called Retirement VISA. I know about the 12 month bank statement, bank guarantee, passport copies, Extension of stay form, hand drawn map of house location but don;t want to schlep all the way to Chaeng Wattana and find I forgot something. Thanks for all you hlep and keep up the good work. Stay safe.
    Reply

    • Max says

      The requirements differ between immigration offices. Strange but true. CW and a couple more like Chiang Mai are well know for requirements that are not exactly official. Is this your first 1 year extension based on retirement at CW? If you're a tenant,you also need a copy of your rental contract and a copy of the owners (if Thai) ID-card (front and back) and blue house book (both signed by the owner in blue ink. The equivalent if renting from a foreigner,a real estate agent or if you are the owner. CW 'might' even ask for a copy of the TM30 (notification of stay) receipt. Every copy from your passport and bank book(don't forget the first page) must be signed at the bottom in blue ink. You'll never know if they want something else than the stuff above. I did my 1 year extension at Jomtien Immigration last Thursday and it took only a few minutes (as usual). No strange requirements like drawn maps.
      Reply

  75. Fred Prager says

    I have opted for the 65,000/month option and have a few questions:
    1. Can I use the money for monthly living expenses as long as I can show 12 months of deposits.
    2. My bank, Bangkok Bank, says it will take 2 weeks to obtain a detailed statement of 12 months of activity. This will make the letter out of date by the time I go to Immigration.
    3. If I get a letter showing 11 months of deposits and have a bank book showing the 12th month will that suffice for the 12 month requirement. This would be due to the timing of requesting the letter, when I receive my monthly pension, the expiration date of my VISA and going to Immigration
    Reply

    • Max says

      It's at least 65k/month,never below and regular deposits every month about the same time every month, and of course you can use the money. That's what they're for.
      Getting a 12 months bank statement normally never takes longer than a week at Bangkok Bank, sometimes faster depending on branch. You'll need a 12 months bank statement and copies from the bank book showing the last week or two will most likely suffice. Remember that every monthly transfer have to show up as foreign/international. You also need a bank letter (aka Bank guarantee) from your bank. The fee is ฿100. The fee for the bank statement is normally ฿200.
      Reply

        • Max says

          The bank letter or as Thai banks usually calls it, a bank guarantee, you get from your Bangkok Bank branch. It shows that you have an account at the bank and it's important. You must update your bank book the same day as you get your bank letter. The balance must be the same. You need to get the bank letter the day before your visit CW. Some immigration offices wants to see a transaction in the bank book (the same day you go to the bank) as proof of an active account. I always withdraw 2000 baht (100 to the bank and 1900 to immigration) from an ATM the day I visit the bank for the bank letter. After the withdrawal, the updated bank book and the bank letter must show the same balance.
          Reply

  76. alan says

    Hi, I have been on the on the retirement O visa for a few years.

    Last couple of times at annual renewal in Bangkok, I am getting pressure to have my required funds with a Thai bank ( Bangkok, Kasikorn etc) rather than a Foreign bank in Thailand e.g Citibank Thailand.

    To me both are Thailand bank accounts, regardless of origin of the bank's shareholders. But do you know if the rules are Thai owned bank or just a bank account in Thailand?

    Any official requirement you can direct me to or just the whim of the immigration guy on the day?

    cheers
    alan
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      The rule is, as far as I am aware, "in a bank in Thailand":At least 2 months prior to filing date, and at least 3 months after being granted permission, the alien must have fund deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than THB 800,000. The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,00 or.I've met folk who use UOB, which isn't a Thai bank.
      Reply

  77. Brad says

    How does immigration check that the 800000 has remained in your account for 3 months after the visa issuance? Do you have to show them a copy of your bank book at the first 90-day report? It seems quite strange; I mean we need the money in the account to show we have enough to live on, but then they don't let us touch it. Pretty humorous. It's becoming quite clear that gov't is trying to discourage people from retiring in Thailand. But whatever.
    Reply

    • Max says

      It depends on where you're staying. It's up to the immigration office if they want to see your 800k in the bank after 90 days. Jomtien Immigration in Pattaya does a so called "90 days check".
      Other offices requires a 12 month bank statement showing the 800k for 3 months and that the balance hasn't gone below 400k until 2 months before next application when you have to top it up to 800k again.
      Reply

    • James E says

      Yes, to your question. My take on the remaining 400K is not that you don't have money to live on but that you do have money for emergencies and to leave. I find it curious that the amount required is the same amount that those with an O-A - and its 400K medical insurance minimum - are expected to have. I don't think they're trying to discourage people from retiring, it's just that they're trying to make sure they don't get stuck picking up the tab.
      Reply

  78. Larry says

    Hi, I cannot get a solid answer from immigration office re: rule for health insurance for expats. I entered in 2009 with a non-immig. A-O stamp and have continued renewal of Ret. Ext. of Stay. I'm told now I must have proof of health insurance when I renew this next July 1, 2020. Two of my farang friends have renewed within the last 2 months "with no need of this proof" and got the renewal.

    Another problem is I'm 78 yo and Thai Ins. companies I've called will not sell to me. One said maybe not after 80 yo; so then what do we do. I directly asked Jomtien immig.office that question and not only did not get an answer but I was ignored. So many things not set in stone but on the day you appear for assistance any one officer can demand you have "this certain document"
    Reply

  79. carlos boada says

    immigration dos not seem to know that my wife can obtain the visa as my dependent. They insist that she must show proof of income just as I do,
    Could you please indicate the article number of the law so that I can show igt to them?
    Thank you,
    Carlos
    Reply

  80. Sylver says

    Hi there.

    For renewing the retirement visa after 1 year of stay you mentioned:

    Remember that you need to ensure that your Thai bank account balance does not fall below the ฿800,000 threshold three months prior to renewing your visa.

    1. But isn't the requirement that the ฿800,000 must be in the bank for 2 months before your visa application? Or is the 2 month requirement only for new retirement applications and not for renewal of existing retirement visas?

    2. Is there any benefit of renewal of existing retirememt visa as against applying for a new one?

    3. After completion of 1 year or at anytime if we want to cancel our retirement visa, can we withdraw/transfer the 800k Bht from the Thai bank? What is the process to be followed for cancellation of the retirement visa if required?

    Thanks,
    Sylver
    Reply

    • Max says

      The 800k has to be in the bank 2 months prior to the day you apply for the extension,and they have to stay in the bank 3 months after the application,then never below 400k until 2 months before next extension when you have to top it up to 800k again. That's the new rules from March 1 2019. Why would you not apply for a new 1 year extension? If you don't,then you have to leave the country,and return on a tourist visa or a 30 days visa exempt,and then convert it to a 90 days Non-immigrant visa at the local immigration office,then after 60 days apply for a 1 year extension. Only an idiot won't extend a 1 year extension because of the need to leave the country and go to an embassy/consulate in a neighbouring country (or go back home) to get a 60 days tourist visa or just do a border run for a 30 days Visa exempt. Then 2 different applications at immigration. If you want to leave Thailand you don't have to cancel the permission to stay, you can go to the bank and repatriate the money,then just leave and your permission to stay has automatically expired. If you're thinking about starting all over again in a couple of years,then think again. It's not that easy and not worth it. Maybe another type of visa would be better for you.
      Reply

  81. Igor says

    Hello, my wife and I entered Thailand with a Non-Imm visa O in March and will need to extent our stay in June for one year. I got a list of required documents at the Imm. Office. Document 7: MAP (satellite view of the house from Google map: latitude, longtitute), but then comes document with a number 10: "drawing map". What is this? Do I need to draw the plan of the area near my house? Or can I present a copy of a non-satellite Google map (which also resembles a drawing, with roads on it)?
    And a second question, please. I am the owner of a house and have a household book (a blue one). In the list of documents number 9 is: House rental contract and copy of your household book (OK, I made a copy of this book). But then comes document 11: Document for Notification of the residence of foreigners. Do I need this document if I am an owner? If yes, then where can I obtain it?
    Thank you
    Reply

    • Max says

      After 60 days into your 90 days Visa you can apply for the 1 year extension. You can not wait until it expires. But now with the current coronavirus situation, you might get a free 30 days extension on top of the 90 days if the situation hasn't improved. You better ask at your Immigration office. A handdrawn map showing how to get to your office from your house is needed at some immigration offices. Document 11 is a so called TM30 report. Several immigration offices requires a TM30 report to be submitted prior to the 1 year extension application. The report can be submitted at the immigration office by the owner/landlord/possessor of the condo/house. You might get fined (both of you) for not doing this when you arrived in Thailand. The fine depends on the office,from 800 to 1600 baht each. The TM30 report is free of charge. So,you should visit your Immigration office and get it done. You'll get a receipt stapled in your passport.
      Reply

  82. Randy says

    "Ministry of Foreign affairs in Bangkok." You mention this location for renewing a retirement visa. Is this a different location than Chaengwattana and, if so, where is it. Trying to avoid the overloaded areas of Chaengwattana if possible.
    Reply

  83. Mark says

    In the present situation corona 19 I was told by Hull immigration was closing for the foreseeable future Are you still processing visas as I don’t want to send my passport with paperwork and left not knowing if I’m getting my passport back in time could you update me as per the situation
    Kind regards m stables
    Reply

  84. Chris says

    I am currently on my second extension of an Non Immigrant ED visa. I will get another extension yet which will expire in October. My question is, can I extend this visa in October for the purpose of retirement, provided I meet all requirements?
    Reply

    • Max says

      You can change the reason for the extension,but I know for sure it's not accepted at every immigration office. I don't know why. If it's accepted at your local immigration office, then you need to cancel the ED and you need to show immigration a cancellation letter from your school and at the same day as the cancellation apply for the 1 year extension based on retirement. There's a lot of time until October and you might not be able to ask an IO anyway because of the current virus situation. So just sit tight for a while.
      Reply

  85. Kathy Gardner says

    We are planning on spending 6 months based in Thailand each year when we retire but returning to the UK for 6 months. During our stay in Thailand we would like to use it as a base to take trips around other Asian countries. What would be the best visa to have?
    Reply

    • James E says

      Multi-entry tourist visa, if you're planning on any stay within a 6-month period to be over 60 days. You could also do a 30-day visa exemption entry with an extension if needed but the extension would entail a visit to immigration. If your time in Thailand is mostly going to be 30-days or less, I'd go the exemption route. It all depends on your plans for visiting around the area and how long you think you'll be spending in Thailand.
      Reply

  86. Henry Byrne says

    Hi Max, at almost 75yrs old and being the worrying type, i need to confirm and reconfirm, that if i have a certified letter of income from my Embassy (Ireland) re monthly income exceeding 65k, i can leave these funds in my bank in Ireland, and theres no need to do monthly transfers to a thai bank...
    I will relax only when i see re-confirmation of confirmation of above lol!
    Henry
    Reply

    • Bubba says

      That is difficult to answer. Is your money in a time deposit? What country are you returning to? How much money or negotiable instruments are you taking out of the country? Are you taking the money physically or doing a wire transfer? If you are a United States citizen you need to review the Treasury Departments rules as well as the Department of Homeland Security & US Customs rules to avoid having your funds confiscated at the border!
      Reply

      • James E says

        Bubba's exactly right but it goes a bit deeper. In general you are prohibited from physically moving more than the equivalent of US$10,000 in *any* form: cash, securities, gold, whatever. However, even if you are moving less than 10-Large and you get stopped, you will have some explaining to do. Second, Thailand prohibits (with a few exceptions) from moving Baht out of the country. So you can't just take it back home and sell to incoming tourists on eBay or whatever. You can wire out forex from any bank which will expose you to the dreaded buy-sell spread and wire fees. Or some of the transfer services (Western Union at this point) will do an outbound transfer. Don't know the fees and conversion rates they're offering though and there is probably a limit of the size of the transfer. If you are moving more than US$10-grand then I'd just do a bank wire transfer, it's safe and secure. You could, I suppose, sell your Baht to (an)other expat(s) in exchange for money in your bank at home. But that would take some coordination.
        Reply

  88. Thomas J Jacobson says

    Hi I have been working Thailand for the past five years and want to retire here with my wife. due to new visa requirements do we need to leave the country and re-enter with an O visa or can we apply in country for a visa extension due to retirement?
    Reply

  89. David R says

    TTL very informative and I hope can help with my situation.
    For three years now I have visited Thailand 9-10 times per year on 2 week holidays(on arrival stamp) and intended to keep this up for the next 4 years and then retire in Thailand.
    But I have been told soon immigration will not accept this amount of travel without a visa.
    If this is the case a retirement visa seems to be the way to go as over 50, property and a bank account with regular transfers in Thailand.
    My issue is where to get the non O visa and then converting to retirement visa with only ever being in Thai for 2 weeks at a time and reading the conversion is after 60 days.
    I live and work in Saudi Arabia and only go home to Scotland two times a year for 4 days so getting the o visa could be a problem with the time constraints.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi David, you can just get a single entry tourist visa for your visits, or better still a multiple entry that lasts 6 months. You can get the O visa in a neighboring country to Thailand. You may be able to get one at the Thai embassy in SA.
      Reply

  90. Dennis Gabriel says

    Hi,
    I'm planning to retire in Thailand, from Australia. I'm 68, and on pension. The Thai Embassy says that from October 2019, a Retirement Visa in Thailand MUST have Health Insurance from a Thai broker. Is this true? I have not got one in Australia, and I always take out Travel Insurance.
    Please enlighten.
    Dennis.
    Reply

  91. Sandy says

    So what is the very latest, most current information regarding how much money one needs for a retirement visa. I just renewed mine after much difficulty and was no longer allowed to use my monthly income PLUS the correct amount in a savings account. I was told I would either need the correct income in a local account now only for 12 months straight OR 800,000. in a savings account for six months total and a balance of 400,000. all the time now. I was forced to use an agency. ARe they legal?
    Reply

    • James E says

      They're legal but expensive for what you get. The income model is tough now that the embassies (US and UK anyway) have stopped issuing income verification letters. You have to show the income from a foreign source on your bank book with (typically) a letter from the bank confirming same.
      Reply

    • Max says

      I guess you were going for the combination method? If you didn't have correct documents (see below), then the imm.office was correct. If you had, then they were wrong about not allowing it. There's been some confusion about the combo method for people from the US,UK and Australia since they can't obtain income letters from their embassies since January 1 2019. Instead they need a 12 month bank statement from the bank showing foreign transfers + a bank letter. Several imm.offices don't like the extra paperwork and are to lazy/stupid doing the math combining income with money in the bank. There were a new police order released recently which states that the combo method is officially accepted. At some offices no problem at all, at others,not so easy. The best way is to ask for a supervisor (or simply the boss) at the local imm.office. They should know about the new police order. If you're going for the combo method next year, then you need to show 12 straight monthly foreign deposits arriving at about the same time of the month + the money in the bank.
      Reply

  92. ray goodwin says

    TTL. Thanks for your site. I stumbled across it and has everything I have been looking for, and info appears spot on. I am planning on commencing my retirement crusade next year in Pattaya. I have had , for many years a bank acc. with Kasikorn Phucket branch. Will that suffice , or will I need an account in Pattaya? Many Thanks. Ray.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi Ray, you will still be able to bank at Kasikorn in Pattaya but you may run into issues with admin, such as if you need a letter from the bank for a particular purpose - they may say you need to go to the branch you opened the account with. I've run into this myself on a couple of occasions with Bangkok Bank when traveling outside of BKK. Transferring and receiving money, and withdrawing isn't an issue, but getting a replacement card or bank book might be. It's bank dependent and branches have different rules at times.Speak with the bank when you get settled and ask if they can transfer the account to that branch. If not, ask if you would benefit from closing the account and reopening one with them. Alternatively, keep that account and open a new one with another bank in Pattaya. All the best.
      Reply

  93. Brent says

    I am from Canada and planning to retire to Thailand in a year at the age of 60. I will be giving up Canadian residency [not Citizenship] and living in Thailand for approximately 6 months a year, traveling for 3 and then 3 months in Canada. My investments are in Canada but because I will no longer be residing there I am not required to file a Canadian tax return. My question is: Do I file a Thailand tax return on the investment income I have from Canada? thx for any help you can provide.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      You will still have a tax liability (Thailand is not a tax haven) so you'll have to pay it somewhere. However, I'd be careful about this because you may lose a portion of your Canadian pension - I've read it's 25%. Personally I'd speak to the Canadian tax man and get some proper advise on benefits vs. losses. I'd be inclined to still file a tax return in Canada and keep everything easy. You don't want to start getting involved with the Thai tax system if you don't have to.
      Reply

    • Max says

      You're not giving up Canadian residency just because you're leaving Canada,and your saying you'll stay in Canada 3 months a year and only ~6 months in Thailand. That means you'll not pay any taxes in Thailand. I guess you will still have a home or personal property in Canada,social ties,Canadian drivers license and passport. You will pay taxes in Canada like you never left.
      Check out this website:

      https://canchamthailand.org/becoming-expat-need-know/
      Reply

      • brent says

        Thank you, Max and ThailandLife. While I am currently a Canadian citizen I am not a resident [i need to live 6-month +1 day to retain my Canadian residency, which I stopped doing a number of years ago]. I spent 5 years in Australia and the last 10 in the USA. I currently file my taxes in the USA as a USA resident but not in Canada [ok by both USA and Canada accounts]. While I have a house in Canada, it is a vacation property and does not impact my residency. When I retire by income will come virtually all from investments held in Canada [capital gains]. It is my understanding that Thailand has no tax on capital gains that are obtained outside of Thailand. As a reference, I used to have a business in Thailand [yoga center] and have spent a significant amount of time in Thailand. I am not looking at this as a tax haven, but do want to live the bulk of my year in Thailand, but also do not want to leave money on the table for the taxman if it is not required.

        .
        Reply

    • Mojo says

      You could be taxed in Thailand on any INCOME that you bring into Thailand to live on. You should not be taxed on any CAPITAL you bring in. Therefore you should split your savings or investments into 2 accounts - one for initial capital and one for the yield (income), eg. interest, from that capital. Have your bank or investment manager put any yield immediately into the 'income' account away from the capital and then use only the capital account to transfer money to Thailand. That way there should be no tax liabilty on what you bring into Thailand.
      Reply

      • TheThailandLife says

        The law stipulates that anyone who resides in Thailand for longer than 180 days is considered a resident for tax purposes. This means you’ll need to pay tax on your global income, which is money you earn in your home country and any other country. If you are a foreigner and reside in Thailand for fewer than 180 days each calendar year, then you will only have to pay tax on the earnings that you earn inside Thailand.Please read this post for the correct information on paying tax in Thailand: https://www.thethailandlife.com/income-tax-thailand
        Reply

        • Max says

          A pension is also an income, but normally earned in your home country. When staying in Thailand as a retiree with an official pension even 365 days a year, you don't have to to pay tax in Thailand if your home country has a double tax agreement that includes pension with Thailand. I have officially migrated to Thailand,meaning I have what they call it "cut the strings" to my home country, but still pay tax there,but less than normal due to special tax laws when migrating as a retiree.
          Reply

          • TheThailandLife says

            Yes, I know. That's what I am saying. A pension is an income, and in most countries pensions are taxed at source - so no tax would be due in Thailand. As I have noted, the double tax treaty prevents double taxation.
            Reply

  94. Paul and Dow says

    I am an Australian citizen moving to Thailand to live permanently at the end of this year or early next year at which time I will be 60 years old. I have been married to my Thai wife for 35 glorious years - therefore can apply either for a retirement or spouse visa / extension of stay (I will not be working in Thailand). I am intending to take out health insurance for myself and my wife no matter which option I proceed with. I will be transferring THB400,000 or THB800,000 in support of the visa application once I am able to open a bank account in my name. My questions are - what visa type do I need to apply for initially to be able to open a bank account? Can we travel to Thailand on one way tickets as our first flight out of Thailand is unlikely to be back to Australia? Any comments on the pros and cons for each visa type would also be appreciated.
    Reply

    • Max says

      If you want less money in the bank for the visa and you're officially married, you can go for the 90 days Non-immigrant O (Spouse). But, because of you having no thai bank account and you can apply for the extension after 60 days, it might be tight. Where will you stay in Thailand? That's as important as having a bank account (which is real important) at the immigration office. To get more time for opening a bank account and getting the documents needed if chosing the Visa based on marriage, then starting with a 60 days tourist visa obtained in Australia is better. After 30 days you convert the visa to a 90 days Non-immigrant O (Spouse),then after 60 days you can apply for the 1 year extension. You need 400,000 baht in the bank the day you start the conversion and same amount 2 months prior to the 1 year extension. The most important thing is the bank account. Without a thai bank account you can't get any visa, and the money needs to be transferred from Australia as soon as possible when you have the bank account. The cons with a visa based on marriage is the shitload of documents needed. Marriage certificates needs to be translated the correct way if you got married in Australia. If you got married in Thailand you need the certificate from the district office,the Amphoe where you got married.3-4 photos needs to be taken showing your home incl. house number,2 photos of you and your wife inside the house/condo. A visit from the immigration office to verify you're really living together.
      If money is no problem,then a visa based on retirement is better,but NOT the O-A Long stay visa you obtain in Australia. That visa requires an approved thai health insurance which is expensive and somewhat useless. (You can get a better thai insurance when the 1 year extension is obtained.) Better to start with a 60 days tourist visa incl conversion and the 1 year extension the way I explained earlier. 800,000 baht in the bank is needed the day when you're applying for the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement and same amount 2 months prior to the 1 year extension. It's less paperwork using the visa based on retirement method incl the extension but more money has to be kept in the bank. The bank account must be in your name only. No joint accounts are allowed. A long term condo/house rental contract is also needed.
      Reply

      • Paul and Dow says

        Thanks for the speedy and comprehensive reply Max,

        We will be staying in Lopburi in a house we have built in my wife's name. We were married in Bangkok and have the Thai marriage certificate, but taking your advice, the retirement visa appears the better option. We are going to Thailand in March for a three week holiday and normally would get the 30 day entry stamp at the airport on arrival. Would it be worthwhile applying for a multiple entry spouse visa for this trip and trying to open up a bank account? When we move to Thailand permanently, this would be one less hurdle to overcome.
        Reply

        • Max says

          You're saying your coming for 3 weeks just to open a bank account and then go back home again? To be able to apply for the conversion to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement, you either enter Thailand on a 30 days Visa exempt or on a 60 days tourist visa obtained in Australia. The ME Visa is actually a waste of money, and why do you need it? You have a property,that's good and a plus when opening a bank account. I recommend going with Bangkok Bank. Go to the immigration office in Lopburi as fast as possible and apply for a Certificate of Residence.You need copies of your wifes house book and her thai ID-card,both of them signed by your wife in blue ink. And copies of your passport, the photo page,entry stamp and the TM6-card (that's the departure card). You have to ask for the form for the certificate at immigration. The certificate is normally an "open Sesame" at Bangkok Bank.
          Reply

        • Paul and Dow says

          Thank you again Max, The holiday in March isn't specifically to open a bank account, it was just something I thought I might be able to do while we are there. Thanks for the recommendation about Bangkok Bank. My wife has held a Bangkok Bank account since we met back in the 80s and some of the staff recognise us when we go back for holidays. Good tip about the Certificate of Residence - it will be one of the first things I do when we make the permanent move. The pieces of the puzzle are falling together nicely
          Reply

          • Max says

            Just being recognized at the bank while being an old customer can sometimes be enough to be able to open an account. It's sometimes easier to open a savings account in a place like Lopburi compared to more touristy locations.
            Maybe you should pop by the bank and talk to them before going to the immigration office. Your wife might work as a reference. I'm just saying.
            Reply

          • Bubba says

            I brought a "letter of introduction" from my US credit union and used it to open an account at Bangkok Bank. It simply was a statement on the bank's letterhead that showed when the account had been opened and the average monthly balance. That was all it took. (I don't think the rep even knew what it was. She just needed something official looking to justify opening the account. )
            Reply

  95. Paul Underwood says

    I am rather confused about the requirement for health insurance.
    I have a “retirement” visa and have heard conflicting information about obtaining the extension.
    please advise if the insurance is required.
    I am nearly 70 years old with health problems so doubt insurance available.
    If it is necessary, is there an alternative visa?
    Reply

    • Max says

      If you're on annual extensions based on a Non-immigrant O-A Visa obtained in your home country,then yes, you need an approved thai health insurance when applying for next extension. If you're on annual extensions based on a Non-immigrant O Visa,then you don't need an insurance. At your age,the insurance will be quite expensive and probably with a few exclusions.
      If you're on an O-A Visa, and don't want the insurance, your only option is to leave for a neighbouring country, without a re-entry permit. Then you will "kill" your extension when returning. You have to start over again with for example a 30 days Visa exempt and then convert it to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa at your local immigration office. Then after 60 days apply for a 1 year extension. No insurance needed. Where are you staying?
      Reply

    • Gary says

      Hi Paul, I obtained an extension to my retirement visa 2 weeks ago at the Bangkok Immigration office and there was no requirement to have health insurance . I believe this relates to when the visa is obtained outside Thailand but not inside. I'm sure I will corrected if wrong but I can only go by my own experience and assure you there was no health requirement when I obtained my renewed extension .
      Reply

      • Gary says

        As Max pointed out the O-A visa comes with health insurance requirements where as the O visa doesnt require them not did itrequire a police criminal record check or medical check when first obtained . I deliberately chose the O visa as it was less complicated and in light of the health insurance requirements attached to the O-A visa it will obviously by considerably cheaper too over the years to come hopefully.
        Reply

      • Max says

        An O-A Visa can only be obtained in your home country,while an O Visa can be obtained both in your home country and at the local immigration office in Thailand via a conversion from a 30 days Visa exempt or a 60 days tourist Visa.
        Reply

        • Bubba says

          One important difference between the O-A and O visa that can't be overlooked is the overstay requirement. With the O-A visa you enter the country and you have 365 days befote you must leave on a single entry or multi-entry visa. An O visa is similar but you have only 90 days before you must leave the country to avoid an overstay violation. A multi-entry visa allows you to come and go, but you still must leave every 90 days. That gets costly and inconvenient as you get older!
          Reply

          • Max says

            You have obviously misunderstood the Non-O Visa. You start with a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa obtained in your home country or in Thailand at the local immigration office. After 60 days you apply for a 1 year extension. Cost 1900 baht. You don't have to leave every 90 days. You extend the stay annualy the same way you extend the stay based on an O-A Visa. Understand?
            Reply

            • TheThailandLife says

              It is still possible to get a multiple entry Non Immigrant O Visa (based on marriage). So if you don't do a 1-year extension after the 60 days in Thailand, you can leave every 90 days and then stamp in for a further 90 days. This is no longer available at the London Thai Embassy but is at other Embassies and consulates in neighboring countries such as, Laos (Savannakhet) and Vietnam (Ho Chi Minh City) (embassy), and at the Royal Thai Consulate in Penang, Malaysia (with 400k baht in a bank or proof of income).
              Reply

              • Bubba says

                The whole issue with the visas is a mess. An O-A visa for a spouse allows you to stay and an O-A visa for a non-non-spouse requires you to leave? The Thai embassy in the US on the overstay as well as the Thai government website is explicit on the 90 day limit. I guess everything is at the discretion of the authorities.
                Reply

                • TheThailandLife says

                  Indeed, Max, but Bubba mentioned the ME Non-immigrant O Visa, and you responded saying: "You have obviously misunderstood the Non-O Visa. You start with a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa obtained in your home country or in Thailand at the local immigration office. After 60 days you apply for a 1 year extension"So it is important to clarify that your answer only provides half the picture, and people should know that you don't need to extend if you have the ME Non O because you can simply leave after 90 days and then stamp in again, something many of us have been doing for years. The single entry Non O is a pathway to doing the extension based on retirement, but you can also do this with a ME Non O.
                  Reply

                  • Max says

                    The ME 90-days Non-immigrant O based on marriage is not an alternative for a retiree. The only visas are the O-A and the O Visa based on retirement with annual 1 year extensions.
                    No retiree uses the ME 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa. That visa is normally used by people not meeting the requirements for an O-A or an O Visa.
                    Reply

                    • TheThailandLife says

                      I didn't say it was an alternative. I have one. I can do a retirement extension at any time using this visa, in the same way you can using the single entry Non O. That is the point being made.

    • Max says

      Paul,
      A friend of mine was in your situation a few weeks ago. He's 72 years old and on annual extensions based on an O-A Visa. He couldn't afford the insurance,and didn't want to start all over with a new Visa and instead went to an agent in Pattaya. I don't know how much he paid, but it worked out. I just wanted to mention it, because this is an option for you,too.
      Reply

      • Bubba says

        Be careful if you choose this route. If you do this, you can get in hot water! If you use an agent, the agent may get your visa in a district other than where you live. If you apply yourself, the next time, in the district you should be in, the Immigration Department has every right to deny you a visa. This is happening already at Lak Si.
        Reply

        • Max says

          My comment was about an agent in Pattaya and Pattaya only and my friends application wasn't rejected. People that are 70 years old or older can't always cope with the trip to a neighbouring country to start all over again with a new type of visa to get rid of the O-A. There are only two options and I have explained how to do it. The third option is leaving Thailand. If you have a fourth option,please tell me.
          Reply

  96. doc says

    Just tried to do my 1-year retirement extension in Thailand today Jan 2020 using a foreign deposit account (FDC)
    Had to put money into the account to update book first. but you have to pay money in with UK pounds and get charged a 1% fee with a minim fee of 500baht = £12.70
    And still had to pay 100 baht for the letter also took about 30 mins not including the wait
    Also, the rules seem to state you have to do this every 90 day for the report???
    This is a lot of hassle and expensive. you may be best to just put the funds needed in a Thai bank in Thai Bahts
    Reply

    • Max says

      You wrote "tried" to do your 1 retirement extension. Did you succeed?
      In my opinion having the money in a Fixed Deposit Account is cheaper,smoother and with a much better interest rate than in a savings account. At Bangkok Bank (maybe even at Kasikorn Bank), you can update the bank book in their update machines without the need to deposit any money.
      What Immigration office do you belong to? You don't need to show the money in the bank every 90 days. At a few offices you show the 800k 90 days after the extension. Just once. The 90 days report has nothing to do with the money in the bank.
      Reply

      • Doc says

        Have to now go Pattaya immigration on Monday now as the electric was off. Hope bank letter will be OK. Fdc they can't update book in machine and only done in fcd banks. So will have to go through same route in 90 days I reckon... Kassikone Bank
        Reply

        • Max says

          Jomtien Immigration will give you a paper showing the date (90 days after the extension) for the so called "90 days check". They just want to see you still have the 800k in the bank. It also says what documents you need to provide. When I did it last year immigration wanted 2 copies from the bank book and 2 copies from the passport. Signed at the bottom in blue ink.
          Reply

  97. FRANK says

    I have a retirement VISA (with 800 K THB bank deposit), live less than 6 months in Thailand and receive my monthly pension on my bankaccount in Europe. Should I pay taxes in Thailand ? Second question: Should I pay taxes on my pension if I would live 12 months in Thailand ? Thank you in advance for your kind comments.
    Reply

    • Max says

      No taxes for the money in the bank in Thailand,except for the 15% you pay to the bank for the interest you receive twice a year.
      Most of the western countries have a so called Double Tax Agreement,DTA with Thailand. With a DTA you don't have to pay taxes on your pension in both countries,just in the country where you earned your pension.
      Reply

  98. Bryan S says

    Looking to enter Thailand and leave with a non-immigrant A-O visa. You recommend entering with a 90-day Non-Immigrant O visa but here in the US that visa seems to be reserved only for visiting family or volunteer work. Can it be obtained from a Thai Embassy in the US for a single guy with no contacts in Thailand? That doesn't seem clear in the requirements.

    Is my best option to enter with a 60 day tourist visa, open the bank account and deposit the 800,00 baht right away, extend for 30 more days, get my Thai health insurance, and then apply for the A-O visa after the money has been in the bank 60 days? Would I still need to upgrade to O visa before A-O? If so can I apply for that soon after entry?
    Reply

    • Max says

      Apply for a 60 days tourist visa in the US. After 30 days you can convert that visa to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement at the local immigration office. The cost is 2000 baht. After 60 days you can apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement. The cost is 1900 baht. You don't need a health insurance. That's only for the O-A Visa. You need 800k baht in a Thai bank when applying for the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa, and same amount 2 months in the bank before applying for the 1 year extension. After ~11 months you can apply for another 1 year extension,and so on.
      Reply

    • James E says

      Right. There is no plain-vanilla O available in the US. If I were you I'd look at getting the O-A in the US (it allows you to use your US finances to meet the requirement but puts you on the hook for the "medical" statement and background check) That will give you a full year in Thailand to get everything set up for your eventual extension. The way you suggest will also work but check through the comments for recent direct experiences.
      Reply

      • Max says

        Not a very good advice when he needs a very expensive health insurance,a medical check + police record check. Converting a tourist visa to a Non-immigrant O + a 1 year extension is both smarter and cheaper in the long run.
        Reply

          • Max says

            I replied to Bryan S's post and his post only. It's quite obvious that he hasn't got a clue that the Non-immigrant O Visa exists. So,please tell me why he should go for an O-A Visa when he is required to buy a very expensive and in some ways useless health insurance together with a medical check and the police record check. Then he has to pay for an insurance every year when extending his stay.
            Reply

        • James E says

          There's only one reason, Max and that is to be able to use his US finances as the basis for his visa. The medical check is a form you just take to your doctor and costs nothing other than waiting for the doctor to stop laughing. The police report costs $20 and takes two weeks. He may *want* health insurance as the crap we get in the US is pretty much worthless overseas. Managed properly he could get an O-A, live 50 weeks a year in Thailand, and stay on an O-A without ever having to put a dollar in a Thai bank. BTW, the plain non-Imm O is heading the way of the dinosaur. It's been unavailable in the US for years and is now no longer offered in the UK. It'll just be a matter of time before it won't be available in Thailand either.
          Reply

    • Bubba says

      As the Immigration rules have changed so much, I suggest you deal with the Thai consulate in Los Angeles. They are amiable and much easier to deal with than the Thai Embassy in Washington. The visa you need is dependent on your age, your finances and what you intend to do when you arrive. The consul will assist you in determining the best way to get the correct visa.
      Reply

    • Bryan S says

      Thanks everyone for your feedback. It think it verified some things about the O-visa and the AO-visa. So obtaining inside Thailand the O-visa will serve me the same as an AO acquired here in the US, can be extended year after year provided I continue to meet the financial requirements. From other research, reading posts, and my personal situation I feel my best option is Max's advice to enter with a 60 day Tourist visa and the convert to O-visa inside Thailand thereby skipping the need to get the medical and background docs together here in time. It sounds like this route will also save me the need to buy health insurance in Thailand (for now). I would rather set up my own monthly saving fund for future medical costs anyway. I I just have two questions on the timeline of getting my extended stay visa this way. 1) Do I have enough time in 90 days to accomplish getting my tourist visa changed to an O-visa (no need to ask for a 30 day extension on the Tourist visa, right?) and then the extension of stay approved. I understood Max to say that I can't make the first visa change until 30 days in and then another 30 before I can ask for the one year extension. Is this correct? Do the first 30 days count as part of my new 90 day O-visa or does the clock start over at that point? 2) Second question is about having the 800,00 BHT in a Thai bank. Unless I get a new 90 days upon approval of the O-visa I might have a problem. If I can open an account in the first few days and get funds transferred within a week I should be OK either way. However, I have read that many banks won't let a foreigner open an account on a tourist visa. So if I have to wait until I get the O-visa (30 days after arrival) and then fund the bank account and my exit date is 90 days from original entry I won't meet the 60 days in the bank required for the extension of stay before my 90 days are up. Is there a way to get a bank to allow me to open and fund an account while holding the Tourist visa? I was thinking of putting the funds in the Bank of Bangkok New York branch before I leave and then asking the local branch to accept a transfer of that to open an account. It will cost on both ends I'm sure but it might make things smoother at the Thai branch. Also need to know if I will have 90 days in Thailand from arrival or actually 120 days (30 + a new 90 with issuance of the O-visa). My trip is planned for mid March but I do need to return to the US to tie up things before I plan to return permanently around next October. So knowing my length of stay options going in would help. Thanks, I hope this reads clear
      Reply

      • James E says

        Max is probably weighing in on this right now. Read TTL's guide to opening a bank account if you haven't. People's experiences are all over the place. I opened mine on an exempt stamp at BKK Bank at Siam Paragon with no real problems. My Thai partner came with me to sign a statement saying her address is the address I live at. But prior to that, at SCB - the bank her family has been with for generations - they wouldn't even talk with us. It just depends. If you don't have Thai friends or family you'll need a rental contract at the very minimum. If you're going back to the States you have another option that might make sense which is to get a multi-entry tourist visa. When you arrive in March you'll be stamped in for 60 days, when that's running out you can get a 30 day extension. That should give you time to get your bank account set up and funded without rushing around like a lunatic which you do not want to be doing in March. Then you can leave (or do a border run) and you'll get another 60 days (+30) extension to make permanent arrangements. DO NOT use the BKK branch in NYC you get hit with transfer fees AND they have an obscene buy-sell spread you'll have to pay. Look at TTL's Transferwise post and read all the comments. BTW - I'm in BKK the last couple weeks of March and the beginning of April. If you want a contact on the ground over there send TTL a msg through the "Contact" form and have him send me your email.
        Reply

        • Bryan S says

          Thanks James, I checked the transfer rates at BKK NYC and you're right. It's way more than any other service. I'm going down to Pattaya upon arrival (tentative for March 17th) but might stay overnight first. If you're in BBK then it would be great to make contact, if that's not to early for you. I'll keep you posted. So if I try to upgrade the tourist visa to the O-visa in Thailand when would the 90 days of the O-visa start? would the time already spent in country count or would I get a new 90 days starting with the change date? This would be very good to know before I even apply for my visa here in the US
          Reply

      • Max says

        Where will you be staying in Thailand? You have to do the conversion from the tourist visa to the 90 days Non-immigrant O visa and the following 1 year extension at the same immigration office. Your only concern in my opinion,is the opening of the thai bank account.
        You can't use Bangkok Bank NY branch anymore for transferring money to a BB thai branch. That option died last year. Opening a savings account at a BB branch using a tourist visa is actually possible, BUT, it depends on the branch. Many branches live by their own rules. Do you have a place to stay in Thailand with a rental contract? If you have, you can get a Certificate of Residence from the local immigration office. The cost is from 0 to 300-500 baht. That's normally what a BB branch wants, or a letter from your embassy/consulate in Thailand. If you visit Bangkok Banks website (it's in english), you can see the requirements for a savings account. At my BB branch in Jomtien,Pattaya, the Certificate of Residence is like an "open Sesame" when opening an account,other branches wants the letter from an embassy. You need the 800k in the bank when doing the conversion 30 days later,so getting the account as fast as possible is crucial. But you can also extend your 60 days Visa another 30 days at the local immigration office for 1900 baht if you need extra time. Other than BB you've got Kasikorn Bank, and again,it depends on the branch if they allow you to open an account. Use the 800k you're about to transfer (or more) as leverage at the branch incl a few please. That might help. When you've got your account and the money is transferred from the US, (it must be a foreign transfer), then you're home free. When doing the conversion from tourist Visa to 90 days Non-immigrant O, you'll need a bank letter (they also call it a bank guarantee) from your bank to prove you've got the 800k and that the transfer was international. It cost 100-200 baht depending on bank. Now you wait 60 days and then back again to immigration with almost same papers as you needed for the conversion + another bank letter. Your at least 800k MUST be in the bank 2 months before the application for the 1 year extension.
        Reply

        • Bryan S says

          Thanks Max, good to know that the O-visa time will be added to the original 60 days from the tourist visa. As I thought, getting a bank account opened and funded as soon as possible will be critical to accomplishing all this in 3-4 months. Sounds like getting a place to stay ahead of time might be my next step. I'm settling in Pattaya and in fact Jomtien is the area I'm looking at for renting a condo long term. It's been 25 years since I've been to Pattaya but it seems Jomtien is still a nice "off the path" area but easy to get back and forth to other parts of the city. Would you advise booking a condo there for a few weeks ahead of arrival? I'm arriving in mid March so it sounds like I should get a longer rental contract quickly (know any good deals?) Let's talk more about housing, initial and long term. Love to hear a Jomtien resident's view on this. Your same bank branch there to set up an account might then be my best bet. How long of a rental contract will the bank require? I do want to try to accomplish my long stay visa goal and still return to the US by July as I have some commitments here to tie up before the permanent move around October. Are you going to be in Pattaya in March - June? So on the timeline front let's see if I got this straight. Minimum time from entry to obtaining and O-visa with 1 year extension. 30 days before I can apply for the O-visa or can I apply earlier provided my bank account is up and funded? No set time after that to ask for the extension other than the money has been in the bank for 60 days? In other words, is there a set waiting time period between steps or is it just as soon as I meet the requirements along the way? If so, and everything falls in place, sounds like I can have a long stay visa in hand with a permit to re-enter in 75-80 days. Add a couple of weeks to celebrate and confirm my fight home and I'm looking right at 3 months (my original plan). I'll have to change my original return fight before day 52-54 but by then I should have the 90 extra days (or as last resort the 30 day extension on the tourist visa).
          Do have this all correct?
          Reply

          • Max says

            You can't convert your 60 days tourist visa earlier than 30 days before it expires. If/when you get the Non-immigrant O Visa,you must apply for the 1 year extension after 60 days. The problem as I see it will be where to stay and get a long term contract. You can't just waltz into Bangkok Bank in Jomtien without a Certificate of Residence from immigration or a letter from your embassy without a place to stay. Even the conversion to the Non-immigrant O Visa requires a contract. That gives you only 30 days (60 days with a 30 days extension) to find a condo you like and open a bank account. Jomtien is quite big nowadays, not same as in 1994. It's not possible to walk around and check for a condo. You have to go online. Try this for starters:

            https://m.pattayacondoguide.com/
            Reply

            • Bryan S says

              Thanks, so on the visa conversion 30 days before the first step but when you say 60 days to apply for the extension is that 60 more after the conversion or 60 days from entry? Or just 60 days after the money is in the bank (somewhere in between)? I get your urgency about getting the account funded and thus the need to get a rental contract ASAP. I'll definitely book something online before I arrive. Big question now is how long of a contract do you think the Bank of Bangkok will require? Three, six months, or a full year will make a difference in my condo choice and budget since it will probably sit empty between August and November. Hadn't planned about the need for a full year contract on my first visit although the convenience of having a place to return to offsets the extra monthly expense. I can live with that. Also, if I lease for a year do you think it's safe to leave some personal items in the condo while I'm gone for 3-4 months?
              Reply

              • Max says

                30 days after entry you can convert your tourist visa into the 90 days Non-immigrant O. Or,if you need more time, you can extend your visa (stay) 30 days. Then you have 60 days until the conversion. When you've got the 90 days Non-immigrant O,in your passport you'll see the stamp, it's like another entry stamp and there's also a stamp showing the expiring date. 30 days before the visa expires you can apply for the 1 year extension.
                Either you have 60 + 60 days after entry in Thailand until the application for the 1 year extension,or 90 + 60 days if you need to extend your tourist visa another 30 days. Just count from the day you entered Thailand. The money have to be in the bank when you do the conversion. The first 30 days (or 60 days if you extend the tourist visa),is the window you have to find a condo through a real estate agent, get the contract and then open the account and get the money transferred from the US. 30 days can be tight,but 60 days makes it a lot easier,less stress. You'll need to show a contract for the conversion, but also when you apply for the 1 year extension. So, a 3 months contract won't suffice, right? That just covers the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa. It's easier and cheaper to rent long term = 1 year. I don't know how big condo you want/need and your budget,and where in Jomtien you want to stay. You can try to find a small cheaper condo for the 1st year, and if needed upgrade when you're back. Leaving stuff while away is normally no problem,you don't need to mention it to everybody,though. Nowadays they have security and CCTV cams.
                Reply

                • Bryan S says

                  Thanks Max, I'm now clear on the length of time it will take. I'm planning a stay of 4+ to 6 months to get it done. I booked a guesthouse for the first few nights and have been in touch with a few agents about a condo long term and maybe more short term lodging until I find one. Been trying to get a lay of the land online about Jomtien but one can't really get a sense of "neighborhood" until you have boots on the ground. Any suggestion on transportation from BBK airport to the Jomtien guest house? The guesthouse says they provide it but have not responded with details other than it is $60 per vehicle so it would be nice to have a backup plan. Also, where is the bank branch located that accepted the Certificate of Occupancy to open an account?
                  Reply

                • Bryan S says

                  I wanted to ask about my return arrangements to the US and subsequent return to Thailand permanently. I am obviously going to have to change my return ticket date (May 16th) sometime after I arrive in March but I really won't know exactly when I'm good to return at the time I need to change it. If I leave Thailand with an O-Visa with 1 year extension AND a permit to return am I allowed to return with a one way ticket? Is a round trip from Thailand and back allowed with these credentials in place? Any restrictions / issues you know of with these options? Option A would be best Just wondering if I should just let my original return ticket go or still try to use it. With the change fees and other charges it's about the same as a one way ticket price
                  Reply

                  • Bubba says

                    That question is really unanswerable. First, the airline you fly on may require you to have a round-trip or onward ticket before it allows you to board its flight. Then when you arrive in Thailand the Immigration officer can choose to either permit or deny you entry at the border, even if you have a visa. Permission to enter is solely at the discretion of the Immigration officier!
                    Reply

                    • Max says

                      The one way ticket is not a problem for the airline. When applying for a 60 days tourist visa, one of the requirements are a copy of the booked ticket with both departure date and return date. So, a return ticket is required.

                    • Bryan S says

                      Hello again, it's been over a month since I last posted. I want to thank everyone for their input on making the transition to Thailand. My flight is in 10 days and still confirmed as of today.
                      I have a couple of new questions. First is about security deposits for a one year leases on condos. I've read everything from one months rent to up to three months rent. What is the norm in Jomtien? Are they good about returning your deposit (providing no damage to the unit) at the end of the lease? Read varying opinions about this as well. Second question is about Covid-19. I've been tracking it for Thailand but most news reports are generic. Any new restrictions in place regarding visa extensions or entry? I understand business is way down. How is that affecting daily life in Pattaya? I haven't seen anything about Pattaya having confirmed cases as of now. Is that true? Any update is appreciated.

                    • James E says

                      Brian S, We're leaving in 12 days so have some similar concerns. First question, do you subscribe or read the web-version of the BKK Post? There are lots of good updates there. Second, the big concern with flying is where your enroute stop is. Thailand announced in the past couple of days that arrivals from South Korea, China, Macau, Hong Kong, Italy and Iran would be required to go through a 14 day self-quarantine with daily reporting to the authorities. While the article doesn't address if transit passengers would be affected I'm guessing the answer will be yes as Thailand seems to be erring on the safe side. The article is at: https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1873174/quarantine-recommended-but-enforcement-unclear As with all things Thai, there is some uncertainty. If you don't transit through one of those places you should be okay.

                  • Max says

                    1 or 2 months deposit is normal. I've never heard about 3 months,and I think that's against the law. Getting the money back when moving out depends on the owner. I have heard about people having problems with Thai owners,but it's not that common. Regarding the Coronavirus,there are no restrictions when coming from the US and there are no reported cases in Pattaya/Jomtien. It's been quite busy in Pattaya/Jomtien January and February despite articles about the Coronavirus in newspapers and online.
                    It's actually quite relaxed here compared to BKK and some other places. Some people wear masks,but not that many. The low season has started now and there are less tourists here compared to just a couple of weeks ago, but that's normal.
                    Reply

                    • Chris says

                      If you are concerned about the Covid virus, don't travel. You have to accept the fact that you can be exposed to the virus, either enroute or here. I wear a mask here in Bangkok, but only when the air quality is bad. Interestingly enough, I went shopping yesterday in Tesco and the stock of facial tissues was decimated. The same for consumables. That could be hoarding based upon the virus or the pending sale of Tesco..

  101. Mal haq says

    trying to get a non O visa from the uk for the purpose of extending to a retirement visa once in Thailand is not a option on the Evisa site that uk and usa must now use. it says O visa for family in Thailand or for medical and for lots of other things but not for a single person coming alone just to retire, and if you click and any of the links it still will only give you the option of a O-A visa for retirement and must show all the stuff that goes with a retirement visa, I have email thai embassy and Evisa but they still refuse to answer. it is on the embassy website that the O visa is still available just show 10 grand in bank account for 3 month but there is no option to apply for it
    Reply

    • James E says

      eVisa is still not available in the US but I'm sure it's heading that way. The plain Non-O hasn't been available in the US for years, if ever. We're stuck with the O-A. You could always try going in on a tourist visa and get it changed to an O once you get there. I think the whole eVisa thing portends a standardization of visas across all countries.
      Reply

    • Max says

      I just logged in to the e-visa website, and I choosed London with a UK passport. The option for the 90 days Non-Immigrant O based on retirement is still available. It's the last option way down in the list before the SMART visas.
      Reply

      • James E says

        I just checked as well. But... It's not called an O visa until you click on it and go to the next page. The title is with "Retirement (Pensioner aged 50 and above with a state pension who wish to stay in Thailand for no more than 90 days)". I think this 90 days thing is the confusing part. Max, how does one migrate from this visa to a long-stay?
        Reply

        • Max says

          You start with the 90 days Non-Immigrant O,then after 60 days you extend it 1 year at the local immigration office. Cost 1900 baht. But, when applying for the 1 year extension, you need to meet the financial requirements = 800k in a thai bank 2 months before applying or show an income/pension of at least 65k monthly. You can't get an income letter anymore from the UK embassy,so you'll need bank letters and statements showing the transfers from a thai bank. IF having the money, the 800k method is the easiest way.
          Reply

  103. Khunang says

    @alfie You loose your permission to stay as soon as you withdraw below 400k. Then you're on and be punishable for Overstay as long as you remain in Thailand, free walking or in prison.
    (400k deposit in an official Thai bank is your money. Withdrawal at your will and following your bank regulations.)
    Reply

    • Max says

      The O-A Long Stay (1 year) retirement Visa is only obtainable in your home country. From October 31 you also need a health insurance.
      The 90 days Non-Immigrant O is extendable 1 year after 60 days at the local immigration office. Cost 1900 baht. Then you can extend it every year. No insurance needed.
      Reply

      • Bubba says

        You only need health insurance if it is available. Once I reached 70, I was unable to find any insurers that would cover me. That did not preclude immigration from issuing me a visa. Many of the comments on this site are just that.. comments only and should not be taken as edicts!
        Reply

        • Max says

          If you got an O-A Visa after October 31 you will need an insurance,and also when applying for an extension based on an O-A Visa. It doesn't matter if you are 70+ and can't get an insurance. No insurance,no Visa. That's a fact. I don't know where you got your information,but it's wrong.
          Reply

          • Bubba says

            The US Embassy sent out a bulletin on the new requirements. An insurance policy in Thailand for a 70 year old costs double what Medicare coverage does in the USA. Combine that with the 800,000 baht capital requirements and it is time to start looking at other more hospitable countries to live in.
            Reply

              • Bubba says

                Changing to a 90 day visa with all of the requirements is insanity. Malaysia has about the same financial requirements for retirees and will waive health insurance requirements if you are over 59 years of age. India, Vietnam, Indonesia and other countries may find themselves with a growing list of former Thailand retirees!
                Reply

                • Max says

                  The financial requirements are the same for the 1 year extension based on retirement and the 1 year extension based on an O-A Visa. If you can't get an insurance or can't afford it, it might work with a US insurance if you can get it certified the proper way.
                  Reply

          • Max says

            The problem with health insurances for old people 70+ is the very high price for a very low coverage. 400k coverage is the minimum requirement from Immigration and totally useless if getting real sick and staying in a private hospital. It's barely enough at a government hospital.If you want a higher coverage,let's say ~800k or more, the cost/year will skyrocket. On top of that, the cost/year will increase when getting older.
            Reply

    • James E says

      You're right. The only difference is that the O-A (and O- X) have a 90-day reporting requirement but no requirement to do a border run. That said, you can apply for extensions and re-entry permits in-country to avoid some of the hassles and make each stay a bit longer. Also note that what you get depends a lot on where you are coming from. For example, in the US there is no plain vanilla non-Imm O visa whereas those can be obtained at many other places around the world which limits your choices a bit. Max has got a number of good comments on working through some of these questions have a look at those.
      Reply

  105. Abdu Basi says

    Besides the financial requirements I have heard that one is also required to carry medical Insurance. Where can I find information on that like minimum required coverage etc. I believe 70+ may not be able to obtain health insurance what are there options.
    The link on this site takes me to Cigna in UK which seems to be very expensive. Can any one suggest a different insurance company.
    Reply

  106. Abdu Basi says

    I will be coming from U.S, do we I have to deposit 800,000 in the bank every year or can I deposit that amount once and not touch it again while I am in Thailand. To cover living expenses can I use a separate account and move money into it as needed from my US bank.
    Reply

    • Max says

      You must transfer at least 800k baht, but just once. You need the money in the bank 2 months before applying for the 1 year extension based on retirement. Then you officially need the 800k to stay in the bank 3 months after. After that you can't go below 400k until next 1 year extension + you need to top it up again to >800k. You can keep the money (all of it) in a Fixed Deposit Account for a better interest rate,but not touch it because you will lose interest. Then you can open a savings account for your daily expenses and you can transfer money from the US monthly. You can also keep all of your money in a savings account,that's up to you.
      Reply

    • James E says

      If by "30 days option" you mean the visa waiver program then that won't work more than a few times before immigration will deny you entry. Additionally, you may be restricted to 15 days on a land crossing which varies by country of origin. There are no such restrictions (other than raising the suspicions of Thai immigration) if you do all this by air but that would get really expensive doing a run every 30 days.
      Reply

      • Max says

        Why is the verification of monthly income impossible? There are a lot of US citizens in Thailand using the >65k monthly method. Several are transferring the money using TransferWise, and if you for example bank with Bangkok Bank they will issue both the bank letter and bank statements.
        Reply

    • Max says

      If you're using the >800k in the bank method, you can not go below 400k after 3 months after applying for the extension,until 2 months before next extension when you have to top it up to 800k again. It has nothing to do with the >65k monthly method. They are just 2 different methods.
      Reply

      • Bubba says

        There is no definitive answer to that on the Thai Immigration website. I transferred 200,000 baht 4 times last year to save on wire fees and it took a "committee" of 6 immigration and a supervisor to agree that I should get my OA visa renewed. Just keep smiling and prepare for a lot of difficulty.
        Reply

      • Max says

        You're talking about the combination method. It's normally used when you don't have the 65k monthly income. Let's say you have 50k monthly, that's 600k in a year. Then you need at least 200k in the bank to reach 800k. BUT, every immigration office doesn't allow this method even if it's officially ok. In Jomtien, Pattaya it's ok. Just an example.
        Reply

    • philip robinson says

      my retirement visa expires in Dec 2019 and i will be aplying for extension using the 800,000baht deposited in a thai bank. however next year i intend obtaining my visa extension by the 65,000baht month income method by August 2020 i will have had 12 months of showing my income going into a thai bank. my question to you can i alter my retirement visa date to bring forward to Aug 2020 from Dec 2020 as i wish to have access to all of my capital as soon as possible and as i understand no lump sums tied up in a bank are required if you use the 65,000baht a month income method. thanking you for help
      Reply

      • Max says

        If you extend your stay 1 year from December 2019 using the 800k in the bank, your officially not allowed to go below 400k until next extension. Normally you would top it up again to 800k 2 months before next application. In my opinion you must keep 400k in your account,and then about 1 month before the expiration date use your income/pension for next extension.
        Reply

        • philip Robinson says

          thanks for your help based on what you say i will apply for the extension about a month before expiration date using the 65000baht a month income method as being able to spend up to 400000baht this should be ok to see me ok during the 2020 to 2021 year everything else sounds a bit vague but thanks for all the help and advice. Philip Robinson
          Reply

      • James E says

        You can also consider switching visa types to remove the financial requirements. Then, when you're at a point where you have the 65k+deposit level combo you want get a new retirement visa. There are a few ways to work it out. If you can already document the 65k then you can combine that with a smaller deposit. I don't think you can move the date forward but I could be wrong.
        Reply

        • Max says

          From 2020 he needs 12 transfers to meet the requirements for the 65k monthly method. He reach 12 months in August next year. I dont think (I'm not sure) he can use the combination method for next extension in December this year. But if he stays with the 800k in the bank method and keep the 800k for 3 months after the extension starts (that's a must), then he can free up 400k. That's better than nothing,and then use 65k monthly next year in December and he can do whatever he wants with the money. I would still keep at least 400k in the bank.
          Reply

          • James E says

            Right. That's what made me think of an interim visa. Say a visa exemption entry followed by a tourist visa with an extension followed by another. (Not sure what the optimum mix would be...) All the while he's booking the 65k/mo. Then in August convert a tourist visa to the O based on income.
            Reply

              • James E says

                Wisdom is something I've rarely been accused of. But given your lack of any further practical input I'm sticking with it. There are many ways to play the visa game. My suggestion is something that would be completely plausible if the foreigner were under 50 and wanting to "long-stay" without a long stay visa. 1) It keeps Philip in Thailand, 2) it removes the 800K requirement immediately, and 3) allows him to tailor his "temporary" visa expiration in line with meeting his target of August 2020 for the income history.
                Reply

  109. Sa dra says

    My husband and I have lived here 19 years and had a retirement visa since they began them. My husband is elderly and last year he was hospitalized several times and had several accidents and I was misinformed about the money having to be in a local bank and told you could show your bank statements as before. Wrong. At same time I realized my husband 's passport only had a week before expiration
    I nearly died on the spot but was able to get new one in one week and pay a fine but told to leave the country to go to Thai Consulate in Vientian. We booked and left right away only to get here to Vientiane and go to Thai Consulate where I first had to get an account with their system and a code to then make 2 separate appointments with no way of knowing WHEN. Been here a week and no appt and must leave tomorrow. Consulate says Must noe have police report from Bangkok. And medical report. Never told this by immigration and they provided a list of requirements.I have no idea what to do next. Been to CM Immigration 4 Times and to Chiang Rai Immigration who sent us to Mae Said Immigration who said they do not do piggyback as we have in the past and my husband would have to leave the country and come back with non immigrant O. They told me i woulf need to do that in Thailand. I have no idea what will happen at the airport tomorrow. Any advise.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi, yes unfortunately the Vientiane consulate now requires appointments and you have to book in advance as they fill up fast.You will need to leave the country and come back with a Non Immigrant O visa. Your husband will then have to do the retirement visa extension again with the new visa. You could then be a dependent on that visa. Note that for you to be a dependent the 800k in a Thai bank account (for 60 days) must be in your husband's account.Has the money been in your husband's account for 60 days+? If not, you will also need to get a Non Immigrant O visa, or a tourist visa, because once you return to Thailand you will have to wait 60 days before doing the extension. If the money has been there for 60 days+ your husband can do the extension immediately.
      Reply

  110. Alex says

    In England you cannot get the retirement visa at all as of june 2019.
    This has caused me problems big time. for two weeks I tried the thai embassy
    in London. It seems they have a policy of not answering the phone.
    I did find out that you apply on line to Bangkok. Sounded simple enough but that was about all. Turns out its not policy to respond to your emails so they will only come back mailer demone.
    I have family in Thailand and was in the process of getting rid of everything
    in England. It has been dawning on me that everything is turning to dust.
    I have been coming here for 11 years, What happened?. I am now in a real mess.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi Alex, where does it say they don't do the O-A visa anymore. I couldn't see that on the website. Either way, it might be easier to follow the advice in this post and get the Non Immigrant O Visa (single entry - 90 days) and then do the extension based on retirement in Thailand.The website says the following:In Person From 15 June 2019, visa applicants in the UK and Ireland have to apply online. In order to access online visa application, please go to https://thaievisa.go.th/Home Applicants are required to set up an account and submit visa applications, then book an appointment to submit their passports and visa applications in person at the Embassy.By Post: From 15 June 2019, visa applicants in the UK and Ireland have to apply online. In order to access online visa application, please go to https://thaievisa.go.th/Home Applicants are required to set up an account and submit visa application online, and print out the completed visa application with bar code and submit it with your passport to the Embassy by post. 14 June 2019 will be the last day the Embassy will process visa application by post, submitted with the old visa application forms. Any old visa applications received after 14 June 2019 will be returned to the applicants.
      Reply

      • Gary says

        I second your suggestion for a 90 day " in country" route as at least Alex will be her with his family while getting things sorted. I took the "in country " route last October and apart from a day spent at Bangkok Immigration filling in paperwork it was pretty straight forward and stress free. As long as Alex has a Thai bank set up already and the funds can be deposited it meet the required time constraints then I think it cuts out all the worry of being in the UK and wanting to be here . I would go for the O visa to get here and convert it once here.
        Reply

  111. Bill M. says

    I am coming to Pattaya in 2 weeks. I have been in contact with an agency to help me obtain a retirement visa upon arrival in Pattaya. I was quoted 32,000 Baht for all of their services. That seems excessive. I understand there is a fee for them doing the work but that is rather large. I am a US citizen with >800K Bhat in a US bank and >65k Baht/mo income. I do not have a Thai bank account as I was not allowed to open one in the US. I plan to stay for 7 months. Any advice would be helpful.

    Bill
    Reply

    • Max says

      Bill, 32000 Baht is very expensive. Why didn't you ask this a bit earler? 2 weeks is a short time.
      What kind of visa will you arrive on? 60 days Tourist or 30 Visa exempt?
      If you arrive on a 60 days Tourist Visa,that visa can be converted to a 90 days Non-Immigrant O based on retirement at the local Immigration Office. After 60 days you can apply for a 1 year extension. But your problem will probably be the opening of an account in a thai bank.
      Reply

    • James E says

      Max is right. If you are coming in on a 30 day exempt you are going to be pressed for time. Everything in Thailand takes much longer than you think. If you are close to NYC, DC, or LA you can get an O-A issued directly but you might not have enough time to pull together the supporting docs like the background check and medical assurances. You could also get a 60-day Tourist Visa quickly. If you don't already have a visa I think your best bet is to get over the jet lag and do a visa run to get a 90 day non-imm O and then you can take your time arranging your finances and getting that sorted out. I'd stay away from "agents" until you have some experience on the ground. You arrive with a target painted on your back and you will find all sorts of helpful people who will take advantage of you. 32kBaht is insane and, other than them filling out a couple of forms, you'll still have to do all the work.
      Reply

  112. VegasGuy says

    Hello -- I'm a US citizen nearing age 50 and looking into the Thailand O-A retirement visa. I think I understand all the requirements (financial, etc.), but I'm still a bit confused as to the best way to obtain the visa. It seems as though getting a 90-day O visa is not offered in the US. Thus, I think my best option is to come in on a 30-day visa (waiver), establish an address and bank account, then start the O-visa process. From there then I'd apply for the O-A visa 1-year extension after I get the O-visa in Thailand. Seems like it would be best to use an agent rather than do all of this on my own. My other option would be to apply for the O-A visa here in the US, but that seems quite complicated. Am I thinking about this right? Thanks for everyone's help.
    Reply

    • Bubba says

      Having done it in the US and now having to do it here in Thailand, my advice is to do it in the US at the Los Angeles consulate. You can do it by mail. The consulate is extremely accommodating. The forms are not that difficult and you will not have the language barrier to deal with. When you renew here in Thailand you will fully appreciate how easy the process is to do in the USA. Just check out the consulate's website.
      Reply

    • James E says

      Your best bet (IMO) is to get your O-A from the Thai Embassy in the US. This has two downsides: 1) you'll have to get the letter from law enforcement saying you're not a criminal. I'm in WA and the letter cost about $20 from the state bureau of investigation (You can use the FBI but it takes longer). And 2) Your doctor will look at you funny when you hand them the health certification form asking about all these 19th Century diseases. The plus side is that you can use your US assets to meet the financial requirements. Then, with visa in hand you can take your time once in TLOS and find a bank and get that all set up. In general (again IMO) you'll be better off not using an agent for anything in Thailand. You need to learn the ropes and handing off responsibility to someone else is opening the doors to all kinds of issues.
      Reply

  113. Steep says

    Having spoken with an agent in Thailand (Pattaya) they advised that I come to them as soon as possible after my entry into Thailand (on a 30 day visa waiver) to begin the process of obtaining a retirement visa.
    I was planning to spend two nights in Bangkok upon arriving before moving on to Pattaya. Would two nights delay make any difference to my application?
    Reply

    • Max says

      If you're doing the conversion from a 30 visa exempt to a Non-Immigrant O in Jomtien,they want the procedure to start almost immediately. That's because CW Immigration in BKK has the final word when it comes to conversions from 30 days visa exempts and 60 days TR Visa to Non-immigrant O Visa. If 2 days matters,who knows? You're probably paying the agent a nice sum,so I guess he can sort it out. If 2 days matters,you can always apply for a 30 days extension,and then apply for the conversion.
      Reply

    • James E says

      They want you to come as soon as possible because otherwise you're gonna find out how easy it is to do without an agent. It takes at *least* 90 days to get your visa since you have to get all your financial requirements in order and have your 800K in the bank for 3 months. If you live someplace where you can get an O-A from your local Thai embassy you can use your existing accounts to meet the financial qualifications then once you're in TLOS you can take up to a year to get your finances in order.
      Reply

  114. Max says

    There are a few errors in the otherwise very informative explanation for the 1 year extension based on retirement.

    The new requirements when having >800k in a Thai bank: From March 1 2019 you need the money in the account for 2 months before applying. Same with next extension and third and so on. NOT 3 months before. 2 months for every extension. Then also 3 months after the application. They also require a so called 90 days check to see that you still have >800k in the account.

    The interest rate for a Savings Account is not 0%. You get 0.5% at Bangkok Bank and at several other banks.

    It's also possible to open a Fixed Deposit Account,FDA. The interest is about 1.5% for 12 months at Bangkok Bank. Higher rate for 24 months and so on.

    The Australian Embassy also stopped issuing the income letter January 1, 2019 together with the UK and US Embassies.

    Other embassies still issues them same as before.

    If you don't have an income letter you need >65k monthly. The transfers "HAVE TO BE INTERNATIONAL" and the Thai bank will issue a bank letter stating this. You also need copies of the bankbook and "EVERY" transfer has to be a foreign transfer. This is at the moment very important. It might change when Immigration learns how foreign transfers really work.
    Reply

      • Max says

        Sorry,check what you wrote. You wrote 2 months before applying for the first extension,and 3 months before for the next extension from March 1.
        It's 2+3 months for every extension from March 1. I have seen the official police order from Immigration, and I did my last extension in May according to the new rules.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          My information was taken from the press release at the time sent to me by immigration. I wrote that the 800k must be there 2 months (60 days) before the extension and remain there for 3 months after the extension. 400k must remain throughout the duration of the visa.This correlates with statements by various officials. Here's one:“Under the new rules, the B800,000 must be in the account at least two months before applying for the visa (permit to stay) and must remain in the account for at least three months after the visa has been issued,” Col Acheep said.“After three months the foreigner can start withdrawing from the account, but under the new rules the balance in the account must not go below B400,000 at any time throughout the year,” Col Acheep explained.Thanks
          Reply

      • Steve Holt says

        My yearly multi entry right to remain expires on 31 October and l can't get back to Thailand from UK until early October. Do l have to make sure that an entry stamp for 31 October is still given, or can l be ok with a 30 day stamp on entry, which would take me over the yearly visa date ? I don't want to do anything to affect my renewal on return. Thanks.
        Reply

  115. Shanti says

    Hello - can you open a Thai Bank account if entering the country on a Non Immigrant O Visa? I note that this visa is a stepping stone to retirement visa, which requires you to have a deposit of money in a Thai bank account.
    Thanks
    Reply

  116. Tron says

    Recently I've seen posts about doing a border run near the end of my 'home-country-aquired' O-A visa which will activate a further 1 year allowance without paperwork, essentially getting a second year on the first visa.

    Can anyone break out the details and or confirm my understanding please.

    Cheers, Tron
    Reply

      • Tron says

        Sorry. I recently saw comments elsewhere that said to the effect "leaving the country before the 1 year term expires, on a turnaround, will get you an additional permission to stay of one year" effectively stretching the potential retirement visa stay to nearly 2 years. Much like the idea of getting 9 months out of the METV.

        I don't expect you to include the following if you post my reply, but for your reference the comment by "Jimn" and just below that "ubonjoe" on Thaivisa https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1089085-retirement-extension-but-outside-thailand-for-extended-periods-and-bank-deposits/?do=findComment&comment=13931972

        I'm familiar with all the requirements etc, etc, just the key question of whether this is actually true for retirement as well.

        Thanks
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          Right, so if you have an OA visa from the embassy in your home country, when you enter it activates the year. Then, before it expires, you leave and re-enter to get a further 1-year permission of stay. But if you want to leave during that new year, you'd need a re-entry permit.An OA is essentially the same as an extension of stay based on retirement, except the route is different because an OA you get from the embassy rather than doing the extension in Thailand off the back of having a Non Immigrant O visa, as described in my post.If you go the Non Immigrant O visa route, then once your year is up you simply apply to extend again. However, you must meet the financial requirements to do that. The advantage of the OA is that for the second year you can avoid the financial requirements by leaving and re-entering prior to your visa expiring.
          Reply

          • Max says

            The O-A Long Stay Visa can only be obtained in your home country and multiple re-entry is included. And it's actually correct that you can leave the country just before it expires and you'll get one more year. When you extend it 1 year you still have an O-A Visa. The type of visa doesn't change.
            Reply

              • Max says

                No,I don't think you can convert any visa to an O-A in Thailand. O-A and O-X Visas can only be obtained in your home country. That's the whole point because you need police records and the medical form to be able to apply for them.
                Reply

                • James E says

                  The Thai Immigration forms are TM-86 (if you have an O visa that you want to change) or TM-87 (if you are applying for a new visa). The police records are not required when applying in Thailand but the financial requirement is only fulfilled with the money in a Thai bank.
                  Reply

                  • Max says

                    Sorry,but you're wrong. When you change visa from 60 days TR to Non-Immigrant O Retirement Visa,and then extend it 1 year,you STILL have a Non-immigrant O. NOT an O-A. It has nothing to do with the 1 year period.
                    An O-A visa from your home country will still be an O-A visa after a 1 year extension. I have done all this myself. I know how it works.
                    Reply

                  • Gary says

                    James is spot on as this is exactly what I did when I arrived last year . I entered Thailand with a 60 day visa and then applied for a change of visa and received an O-A visa which takes me up to next February.
                    This route does away with the medical and Police checks in your home country { and no I'm not a criminal or infirm it was just quicker for me to move after retirement } , but does require you to have the 800K in place already in Thailand before you apply on the TM 86. I set up my bank account on a previous visit in the February before flying out in October to ensure the funds were siting in the bank for the required time period.
                    Oh yes as a foot note this method is actually less expensive than obtaining the O-A in the UK as well !
                    Reply

                    • Max says

                      You did not get an O-A Visa. You got an Non-immigrant O which you can extend 1 year after 60 days. Check your passport. This is the most common way to get a visa based on retirement in Thailand. O-A can only be obtained in your home country.

    • James E says

      This *might* work although I'm thinking the best you can do will be only 90 days. There are two considerations. First, you're going to have to apply to make your Visa multi-entry. If you're coming from the US the website states: "Validity of a visa: multiple entries." However, reading on it also says: "During the one-year period, if he or she wishes to leave and re-enter the country, he or she is required to apply at the Immigration office for re-entry permit (single or multiple) before departure." So you'll want to make sure that this is clarified. If a reentry permit is needed I think you'd want to get that early in the visa's initial validity rather than toward the end when it might be more obvious what you have in mind. Second, You may be opening yourself up to extra questions. For example, while you will be well within the law to stay until your stamped date you'll still need to do 90-day reporting. I'm not sure how the 90-day reporting works when you are operating on an expired visa. Immigration can ask you for anything and everything they want to continue your stay; including getting a valid visa. Since your 1 year visa is essentially 4 sequential 90 day stays your second period may just end up being a 30-day exemption stamp since your visa would be technically expired. A lot would depend upon the immigration officer. They could ask you to leave. This would suddenly put you in jeopardy of getting a new O-A unless you've already got the financial requirements met. Seems like there might be a bunch of downside with only a bit of an upside.
      Reply

  117. Terry Barclay says

    Hi, over a 12 month period my account shows income of 880k, hi point 200k
    Low point 70k with monthly income of between 70 to 80k every month,
    Exchange rate ???, would this be acceptable to the nice people at immigration.
    Thank you
    Reply

    • Max says

      If you come from the UK,Us or Australia, your embassy doesn't issue income letters anymore.
      That's why your Thai bank book must show international transfers = FTT every month around the same period of the month. Plus you need a bank letter from the bank.
      Reply

      • Bubba says

        I have been that route and Bangkok Bank would not issue me a letter showing deposits that went back further than 6 months. That was unacceptable to Immigration at Lak Si. Immiration said, "our policy.." Bank said, "our policy..." Mexican standoff. I still don't know how I got my vida renewed.
        Reply

        • Gary says

          I was told the same when I requested 12 months worth of transactions at the Bangkok Bank Branch located downstairs from the Immigration offices in Bangkok. I was however able to get the full list when I went back to the branch where I opened the account originally. Apparently only your original branch can access12 months data and any other branch will only give you 6 months data.
          I wonder if this is what you have experienced and they have failed to explain themselves at the Branch. Try your original set up Branch as I believe you will have better luck .
          Reply

          • Bubba says

            I visited my original Bangkok Bank branch and two other branches and was informed of the same thing. That can only produce letters retroactively 6 months. I had an Thai official accompany me and that individual was told the same thing. When told that Immigration requires a one year statement, the branch manager simply replied,"That is not our policy."
            Reply

            • Max says

              They are still wrong.
              The new requirements from Immigration states that they want to see a bank letter showing 12 consecutive international transfers. Your Bangkok Bank branch should know this. It's 9 months since the new requirements kicked in.
              Reply

        • Max says

          Your bank branch is totally wrong. They should know about the new requirements starting about 20181226, in some Immigration offices 20190101. You can visit the main office on Silom Road,they know how it works.
          In Chonburi province and in other provinces there's no problem what so ever at B-Bank with income letters showing international transfers for 12 months. That in combination with copies of the bank book showing foreign transfers is what Immigration demands.
          Reply

  118. Tom Larner says

    For six months after renewing a retirement extension you must still have maintained an 800K balance.
    What do you need to do to prove this to Immigration on the 6 months anniversary? Copies? Letters?, etc?
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      It's 3 months for the 800k and then 400k thereafter. When you do your yearly extension you will have to show you bank book and they will be able to see your withdrawals and balance. You will also require a letter from the bank to confirm the account has met the requirements.
      Reply

    • Gary says

      I took everything and they asked for nothing ! . I think you see so many different officials that they forget what you are there for and its pot luck if you get asked to show your bank book again until your years renewal is due and then its all about the dreaded TM 30 and fines . I would take your bank book and if asked it will show when the funds went in and how long they have remained above the threshold limit.
      Reply

      • Max says

        You never show your bank book. But you have to take copies of your bank book twice a year.
        When you apply for your 1 year extension and last time 3 months after to show you still got >800k.
        That's a new requirement from March 1. Immigration calls it a 90 days check.
        The TM30 mess is what it is,and we'll have to wait and see what happens.
        Reply

  119. Bubba says

    I am a United States citizen on a retirement visa. I am truly retired and want to do some extensive travelling in Asia when my O-A visa expires. If after a few months I wish to return to Thailand, what is going to be the most expedient way to reapply for an O-A visa? I have no intention of returning back to the United States just to undergo all the hoops you have to go through there again to obtain an O-A visa.
    Reply

    • Max says

      You can actually leave Thailand just before the O-A Visa expires and re-enter. You will get another year O-A Visa. Multiple re-entry is included in the O-A Visa. The other option is to extend the O-A Visa 1 year 30 days before it expires,but then you have to meet the financial requirements.
      Reply

        • Max says

          How long have you been on your O-A Visa? The first year the multiple re-entries are free. Just before it expires you can leave and come back and automatically get another year. The second year you need a re-entry or multiple re-entry permit to leave and come back. When the second year is about to expire (about 30 days before) you have to apply for a 1 year extension at Immigration. The cost is 1900 baht. You have to meet the financial requirements,though. You need >800k in a Thai bank 2 months before applying, and still need >800k 3 months after. Then >400k the rest of the year.
          Reply

          • Bubba says

            I have been here 3 years now. During that time the Immigration policy regarding finances has changed but the fact of the matter remains is that I have an O-A visa with multiple reentries for each year and never have I been allowed to extend my visa beyond the original expiration date stamped on the visa expiration.
            Reply

    • James E says

      Your best bet might be to be somewhere where you can get the plain non-imm O visa (Something that isn't offered in the US) which gives you 60 days (I think) and then get it changed to an O-A when you get back to TLOS. If your plans include Oz I think you can apply for an O there. Check with the RT Embassy websites in the other countries you'll be traveling in to see if it's offered there.