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The Thailand Retirement Visa Guide

This post will provide you with all the information you need to obtain your retirement visa, and answer all the nagging questions to which you have seen conflicting answers for all over the Internet.

Let's get started.

What is a Retirement Visa?

In truth, there is no such thing as a retirement visa, per se. However, when we talk about a retirement visa, we refer to it as such because people applying are generally retirees intending to spend their retirement in Thailand.

Moreover, you can't work on this type of visa, so it's generally for those who've stopped work and entered the sunny side of life.

What most refer to as a retirement visa is officially known as an extension of stay based on retirement.

The way the extension of stay based on retirement is obtained is by entering Thailand on a Non Immigrant O Visa, which we will discuss a little later, and then by obtaining the retirement extension from an immigration office – provided you meet the requirements.

Retire in Thailand, enjoy the good life.

What Are the Retirement Visa Requirements?

There are three key requirements, as follows:

  • You must be over 50 years old
  • You must have a monthly income of 65,000 Thai Baht or more
  • Or,  ฿800,000 in a Thai bank account for 60 days+ before applying for the extension. And ฿800,000 remaining for 3 months after the extension, and ฿400,000 thereafter. 

The ฿800,000 must be in the bank for at least 2 months before your visa application.

As of 1st March, 2019, the ฿800,000 must also remain in your bank for 3 months after the extension, and, after those 3 months, you must keep ฿400,000 in there indefinitely. 

You also need a letter from your Thai bank to confirm the ฿800,000 is there and has been there for the required time frame. 

Note that you need a letter from your bank verifying the balance and a copy of your bank book.

Note that you can also use foreign currency, but the money must be the equivalent of ฿800,000 Baht.

There are a number of banks offering foreign currency accounts, but you must make sure that the amount you have in there equals the requirement for the extension of stay: exchange rates fluctuate throughout the year, and this may leave you short if you don't monitor it.

=> Read more about opening a Thai bank account here.

Instead of having ฿800,000 in a bank account, you can show an income of ฿65,000 per month, without having to bring the money into Thailand.

For those who don't want to tie up such a large amount of money in what essentially will be a zero interest account, it may be preferable to use this requirement, particularly if you have a steady pension income, or income from investments. 

You will need to provide details of this income over a three-month period, by way of bank statements and through a notarized letter from your embassy that verifies the monthly income. 

New Rules for UK and US Nationals

British and US nationals are no longer able to obtain a letter from their respective embassies to confirm that they have a pension income or other income of the required ฿65,000 amount.

This means that nationals of these countries will have to go down the route of having ฿800,000 in a Thai bank account, or they must have the ฿65,000 income paid into a Thai bank account each month and prove this by way of a 12-month bank statement history.

This is problematic for those who have not held a bank account for 12 months. It is therefore likely that British and US nationals will have to go down the 800k lump sum route, at least for the first year anyway.

On the plus side, money transfers to a Thai bank account are relatively cheap these days (see the link below).

=> Learn the cheapest way to send money to Thailand

* It is expected that other embassies will follow suit and stop issuing income letters too. I will update this article as and when this happens.

What If I Don't Meet the Financial Requirements?

Perhaps you don't have an ฿800,000 lump sum of money to put in a Thai bank account, or a monthly income of ฿65,000. In this case you can still meet the financial requirements by combining the two. 

For example, let's say that you earn 50,000 a month. That would equal ฿600,000 a year.

In this case you would only need to deposit ฿200,000 in your Thai bank account to make up the required ฿800,000. However, you would need to provide both the letter from the bank and the proof of income letter from your embassy

(British and US nationals are currently unable to obtain this income letter). 

What Documents Do I Need for a Retirement Visa?

To obtain the extension based on retirement, you will need to attend an immigration office, such as the office located at the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Bangkok. On the day you will need 5 things, as follows:

  1. Passport with Non Immigrant O Visa inside. Photocopies of: photo page of passport, page showing visa, page showing last entry date into Thailand.
  2. TM.7 (extension of stay form completed and signed). Attach a passport photo and include phone number by your signature.
  3. Departure Card (TM.6) (make a photocopy)
  4. 2 passport size photos
  5. Proof of funds and or proof of income (letter from bank/embassy). Bank letter cannot be more than 3 days old. If using the lump sum application route, you'll need an updated photocopy of your bank book page that shows the balance. Obviously take your bank book along too.
  6. Proof of address (copies of rental agreement, and utility bills (if you have them))
  7. Application fee of ฿1,900 THB

*Sign all photocopies. 

90-Day Reporting

Once you have your retirement visa,  there are two important rules that you must follow to ensure that you do not overstay your visa or invalidate your visa.

  1. You must conduct 90 day reporting. This means you must report to an immigration office in Thailand every 90 days.  This is because Thailand has a law that states that a foreign national must produce his/her address if staying in the kingdom for 89 or more days. The address is reported on a TM48 form.
  2. Perhaps the most common mistake foreign nationals make when living in Thailand on a retirement visa is leaving the country without getting a re-entry permit. A re-entry permit can be obtained from an immigration office or the airport before leaving the country.

This permit will be stamped in your passport and protects your visa from  expiring while you are outside of the country. If you do not get a re-entry permit, then your visa will be invalidated and when you re-enter Thailand you will get a standard 30 day exemption stamp.

As noted, you can obtain a re-entry permit as you are leaving the country. However, if you are able to plan in advance, it may be better to get one a few days before you leave to ensure that you get it done in time and don't miss your flight if you are in a rush to the airport. The re-entry permit form is known as TM13.

I have written extensively about the re-entry permit in this post here.

How to Renew Your Retirement Visa

Your retirement visa (extension of stay based on retirement) will last for one year. But don't wait until that year is almost up before you start planning to renew it. In fact, you can renew your visa up to 45 days before it expires.

Remember that you need to ensure that your Thai bank account balance does not fall below the ฿800,000 threshold three months prior to renewing your visa. 

Also consider that if you need a proof of income letter from your embassy, you should plan this at least a few weeks before you apply for your visa.

Some embassies require you to make an appointment and they may be busy at the time you apply. Don't worry though, the letter from your embassy will be valid for six months, so is perfectly fine to obtain the letter up to a couple of months before you need to renew your visa.

Rules for Those Retiring with a Spouse (Dependent)

It may be the case that you're a foreign couple who want to retire to Thailand. In this situation, there are two possibilities for obtaining the visa:

  • Each partner obtains a retirement visa by following the financial requirements laid out above: that is ฿800,000 in a Thai bank account two months prior to applying; or proof of ฿65,000 income per month, as verified by your embassy; or a combination of the two.
  • One of you obtains a retirement visa and the other receives a visa as his/her dependent.  The visa holder is generally the male party.

The easiest route is for you to both independently get visas. One reason for this is that if the main visa holder were to pass away then the dependent's visa would be immediately void.

This could be problematic because it would  present you with a visa issue to overcome at a time when you would be going through a lot of grief and having to sort out a lot of other things in your life.

In this situation, you could essentially leave the country and come back in on a 30-day exemption stamp, or get a tourist visa from a Thai embassy in a neighbouring country. But this still might not give you the time you need to get all your affairs in order and take care of probate.

It sounds quite morbid, but it is worth considering – because at a time like this you would not want the hassle of sorting out visa issues.

The other reason to avoid going down the dependent visa route is that Thai immigration has moved the goalposts on this visa are a couple of times over the last decade. Both times they have reverted back to the original rules, but it can cause confusion and be problematic.

In the case of a dependent, immigration requires the financial aspect of the extension to be provided by the male party and not through a joint bank account.

Similarly, if you are using a letter from your embassy to prove your income to extend your visa, this must solely be in the man's name and not in joint names. In other words, the income is verified as the man's income and not a joint income.

It is also worth noting that if you are seeking to obtain a dependent visa for your spouse and your spouse is not yet 50 years old, your spouse must enter Thailand on a Non-Immigrant O Visa.

This is because a 30-day on arrival stamp cannot be converted into a Non-Immigrant O Visa inside Thailand, if you are not yet 50 and seeking an extension based on retirement. 

Getting Your Non Immigrant O Visa

The most common pathway to getting the extension based on retirement is to obtain a Non Immigrant O Visa (90 day validity) from your home country before you arrive Thailand.

You can obtain this visa in Thailand, but then that's an extra step that you will have to go through with immigration before applying for your extension of stay based on retirement. It really isn't difficult to get from your home country either, so it is advisable that you do this.

Here are the requirements for the UK Thai Embassy. Please note that requirements may differ slightly from country to country.

  • Visa application form
  • Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months and at least 2 blank pages, as well as the photocopy of passport. The actual passport must be submitted with visa application form.
  • Two (2) recent photos (taken within the past 6 months)
  • Supporting documents for the purpose of visit to Thailand. (Please see details for each type.)
  • A copy of pension statement if the applicant is a pensioner, or a copy of 1-month bank statement showing your income from pension, or 3-month bank statement of at least £10,000 

Once you have your Non Immigrant O Visa,  you can enter Thailand and stay for 90 days. You will have to wait 60 days before you can file your retirement visa application at the immigration office and follow the steps laid out in this post.

Getting a Retirement Visa (O-A) Instead

You should also know that you can obtain a long-stay visa (generally known as a retirement visa) inside your home country. It's known as an O-A visa.

Rather than include all the details in this post and confuse the two options, I wrote a separate post on this. 

In a nutshell, there's more paperwork involved and it requires you to have a specific insurance policy. Though it does have some benefits that the extension we have discussed here doesn't have.

+ Read more on the O-A visa here

Have I missed anything? Still got a question? Leave it in the comments below.

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  1. Thomas says

    What If I Don't Meet the Financial Requirements?
    Perhaps you don't have an ฿800,000 lump sum of money to put in a Thai bank account, or a monthly income of ฿65,000. In this case you can still meet the financial requirements by combining the two.

    For example, let's say that you earn 50,000 a month. That would equal ฿600,000 a year.

    In this case you would only need to deposit ฿200,000 in your Thai bank account to make up the required ฿800,000. However, you would need to provide both the letter from the bank and the proof of income letter from your embassy

    (British and US nationals are
    Reply

    • Max says

      Yes, the combination method is accepted. And as you said, you need both the bank letter and the income letter from your embassy/consulate. If you can't get an income letter, then you need a 12 months bank statement from your Thai bank showing 12 foreign deposits + the bank letter. (Some immigration offices also wants to know the source of the deposits.) The bank letter just verifies you as the account holder and the balance.
      Reply

    • Max says

      No minimum amount of time as long as the Visa is valid. But why would you go for an O-A Long Stay Visa or an expensive O-X Visa with all the hassle with a mandatory health insurance? If you come to Thailand on a regular basis, the still existing Non-immigrant O is in my opinion the best choice.
      Reply

      • Angus says

        Thanks for that Max , I have an elderly mother who I will most likely need to spend indeterminate amounts of time with over the next few years . If I want to spend the majority of my time in Thailand but have the flexibility to come and go as required I was thinking the retirement visa would be best as tourist visas seem to be capped at 60 to 90 days and I want to live in Thailand ? If there are other options I would be interested to know them ?
        Reply

  3. Jerry says

    If I come in on a 90 Day Non-Immigrant “O” Visa, and stay in hotels until I get a one year extension of stay granted. Do you think that will cause any issues for the “Proof of Address” requirement (Non-O)? My understanding, and “logic” (not always the same in Thailand .. 555) is that the hotels submit the TM 30 (I think is the form) to the immigration department already.
    Reply

  4. Ben says

    Is there a limit on how long you can leave Thailand for in a year (or within a set period of time) and still be eligible for the re-entry stamp/visa, a retirement visa the following year and residency after 3 years ?

    For example, could you leave Thailand for 2 months after every four months in Thailand and still qualify for the re-entry stamp/visa, a retirement visa the following year and residency after 3 years ?

    Cheers
    Reply

    • Max says

      You can officially come and go as you please on 30 days visa exempts,but immigration might not like it if it happens frequency without an explanation. A re-entry permit expires if your, for example 1 year extension expires. You must come back before the extension expires. If leaving the country several times a year while on a "permission of stay", you can apply for a multiple re- entry permit. It cost 3,800 baht. Several entries during a year on 30 days visa exempts won't affect an application for a "permission of stay" (not a visa) based on retirement in the future.
      Reply

  5. Louise says

    Hi, can you tell me if a retirement visa with dependent spouse is possible if you are long term partners not married?
    Also is is possible to start with a visa with a dependent and change to two individual retirement visas when more finance becomes available?
    Thank you for any help
    Reply

  6. Peter says

    Great article thanks
    10-6 years ago an agent did the retirement visa for me each year, I prefer that route so no £25K has to be left in the bank. Is that option still open? And could it be done with just coming in on a tourist visa do you think?
    Reply

    • Max says

      If coming in on a 60 days tourist visa,you can change the visa to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement at the local immigration office. Then extend it 1 year based on retirement. If using an agent (if possible), you have to pay for two applications. Having 400-800k in the bank for immigration issues is quite ok when living here full term. It's not a lot of money and you get interest on the money twice a year. Back home several saving accounts are without any interest what so ever since many years.
      Reply

  7. Earle Gaetz says

    I have a O A retirement visa and have lived here for 16 years. I plan to go back to visit family in Canada for Christmas and return on January 21. My retirement renewal date is February 2. Is there a problem if my re-entry into Thailand is too close to the visa renewal date. I have a valid multi re-entry permit stamp in my passport. Thank you.
    Reply

  9. woody says

    for Retirement visa OX, do I need a criminal record from county or federal?
    I was at LA county court, but charge is 40usd, but I don't want to pay for if Thai consulate asks for different criminal record. I don't know where to get it Please, help
    Reply

    • Max says

      Why would you even consider applying for an O-X Visa? It gives you no benefits in Thailand what so ever. You pay a lot for nothing.On top of that you need an expensive mandatory Thai health insurance which has to be extended annualy. You still have to visit immigration every 90 days. Why not start with a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement from back home? That Visa can after 60 days get extended 12 months. Cost: 1,900 Baht/year. If leaving Thailand you just get a re-entry permit. That way your 'permission to stay' won't expire. Even if it expires and you have to start all over again, it's better (and much much cheaper) than the O-X Visa.
      (About the criminal record, why don't you ask the Thai embassy/consulate in the US?)
      Reply

  11. JamesE says

    I've got a question about the O (Retirement) visa that I have not been able to answer on my own. And that is: Is there a limit to the number of O (Retirement) visas you can get?

    For example, say I was planning to retire in Thailand and wanted a visa that said so. I'm not quite ready yet because of getting the financial requirements in place, but I would like to start getting some things set up like opening a second bank account, and getting a driver's license which can be easier with an O visa than on a TV or visa exemption.

    Would I be allowed to get an O (Retirement) stay my 90 days without extending it and then get another to do similar things or when I make my move in a few years?

    I can't see anything in the rules that would preclude this but also have seen exactly no stories of anyone who has or tried and was refused.

    Thanks.
    Reply

  12. Brian says

    Hi Peter
    I will apply for the Non Immigrant O Visa vs the OA.

    Thanks for help with this.

    This way I do not need a medical certificate or another criminal record check ( with added cost, fingerprinting and Waiting around for the document) and/or less paperwork as you have mentioned in one of your posts.
    I have bought an annual inbound mid cost insurance policy through Mr Prakan for $1500 Canadian vs the Cost of insurance in Canada.
    Do I need to get additional health insurance on top of this?
    Thanks Brian
    Reply

  13. Lara says

    My husband is going to get another year of retirement visa and I (under 50, not Thai) want to piggy back on his retirement visa. (I'm currently on ed visa.) As far as I know, I don't need to provide 800k bank statement in my own Thai account. Is that correct?

    I've heard some people say that in order to get a dependent visa, I also need my financial proof, but I haven't read about this information anywhere.

    Thank you.
    Reply

    • Max says

      No, you don't need any financial proof what so ever. But from 50 years of age (or if it is 51, I'm not sure) you can't piggy back on your husband anymore. FYI, your husbands "Permission to stay" is extended another year, it's not a Visa.
      Reply

        • Max says

          Just write something saying you're applying for the extension as a dependant on your retired husband xxxxxxxxx. 'Kind of visa' is the visa you arrived on.
          Depending on where you're staying in Thailand and the local immigration office,they might ask for a legalized marriage license. This is now a requirement at Jomtien immigration in Pattaya. This is new from this year, but I don't know if the requirement is nationwide. I read about it at Pattaya City Expats Club's website. Google pcec pattaya
          Reply

  14. Rich Platts says

    Proof of funds and or proof of income (letter from bank/embassy). Bank letter cannot be more than 3 days old. If using the lump sum application route, you'll need an updated photocopy of your bank book page that shows the balance. Obviously take your bank book along too.

    I have been told that this has been changed to the letter being dated the day or your visa renewal. Which is correct?

    Thanks.
    Reply

    • Max says

      Everything is up to the local immigration office. Several offices wants the bank letter to be dated the same day as the day of extension or the day before. The bank book has to be updated the same day and show same balance as the bank letter. If using bank book copies for the lump sum method you need to copy the first page with name and account number + 12 months back until the last 1 year extension. But if using the bank book it must have been updated on a regular basis. If not, some deposits and or withdrawals might be combined. Meaning, you won't see every deposit and withdrawal. This is something immigration don't like, and a 12 months bank statement must be obtained. I know for sure there are immigration offices which doesn't allow bank book copies. I don't know where you're staying.
      Reply

  16. Jan Lund says

    Extension of stay ( Retirement ) with EU wife to be prolonged soon. Do I have to provide local I.O. with a new legalised marriage cert from overseas ( as a prove, that we are still married ) again as I had to in the first place?
    Thank You for Your piece of mind.
    Reply

  17. Scott j Johnson says

    I was thinking of retiring to Thailand on the Non Immigrant O Visa, I am 57. But I still have 2 dependents under 18. Can they also enter on this or would I need to do the O-A visa ? And on each of these, is the initial amounts required to be in deposit in the bank mean your bank in your home country?
    Reply

    • Max says

      There's no difference between an O and an O-A Visa based on retirement when it comes to dependent visas. You must apply for one of the visas. If possible stay away from the O-A because of the mandatory thai health insurance. Go for the 90 days Non-immigrant O which is extendable 1 year at the time. Your kids must apply for dependant visas, they will piggy back on your visa (the permission to stay actually). For the O-A Visa you must have the equivalent of 800k baht in a bank back home. For the O Visa you need 800k baht in a thai bank account. You need to wait until it goes back to normal visa-wise and no quarantines,though. It might happen Q4, but most likely next year.
      Reply

  18. ray goodwin says

    Hi, Sorry for using wrong forum . My request to embassy in canberra was about obtaining a visa for 4 to 6 months, with the ability to travel to vietnam during my stay. They recommended the Non - immigrant O (retirement ) visa. But yes, they informed me that this would indeed necessitate a certificate of health insurance from a Thai insurance company. This will allow me to stay 12 months with multiple entries. Thanks for your input, I just wanted to be sure about the bank set up. PS Just a trial retirement, I all goes well, I will explore further . Cheers Ray. pps love your site.
    Reply

    • Max says

      Going for an O-A Visa when you just want a 4-6 months trip is just wasting a lot of money. That's not a sound advice from the Thai Embassy. It would be a very expensive 4-6 months,that I assure you. Wait until everything goes back to normal and arrive on a 60 days tourist visa and change it to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement as long as you have 800k in a thai bank account. That Visa can be extended 1 year after 60 days into the 90 days Non-immigrant O. You can leave the country and come back as long as you apply for a re-entry permit. It cost 1000 baht for a single re-entry and 3800 baht for a multiple. If just using the 60 days tourist + the 90 days Non-immigrant O,you have 5 months. That's what you asked for at the Thai Embassy. You can even extend the 60 days another 30 days at the local immigration office for 1900 baht. Then you've got 90+90 days = 6 months. But this is only possible when/if everything goes back to normal.
      Reply

      • JamesE says

        If all you want is 4-6 months your best bet is a pair of Tourist visas. One for your entry from Oz and one when you come in from Vietnam. Max nails the O-process and it's way more complicated than you need to get for that kind of trip. Be aware that for the foreseeable future travel as you describe is off the table. Thailand will require a 8 - 11 - 15 night quarantine every time you enter and Vietnam is essentially shut down to tourists right now. Check back in 6 months.
        Reply

      • ray goodwin says

        OK, Thanks , the tourist visa seems the way to go. Trouble is when you get old, you look for a degree of certainty . Applying for extensions etc sounds a bit hit and miss. However, it seems that is not the case. I will take your advise. Of course everything is Covid dependent. I am hoping for early next year. Thanks again , Ray.
        Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Yes, please see my previous reply on the OA visa post. You get the O-A visa from your home country, and it is there you show your bank statement to the embassy to prove your finances. The O-A visa has the advantage of being able to activate another year if you leave and re-enter before the expiration date.
      Reply

    • Max says

      If it's your first year then you can leave before the permission to stay expires using a re-entry permit and then get a second year when coming back. One question: Why do you want an O-A Visa when one requirement is a Thai health insurance which has to be extended every year and cost a lot, especially if you are 65+?
      Reply

    • JamesE says

      The answer is "Both". Your visa's validity starts with its entry into your passport and the permitted stay begins upon your entry into Thailand. The difference isn't as critical with the retirement visas because both are a year. But if you go for a multi-entry visa (which you don't really want to consider right now due to quarantine requirements) and are planning on using Thailand as your base for travel, it's something you want to keep track of.
      Reply

  22. Brian T Addley says

    Hello,
    First off, thank you for this information, it's very helpful. I do have a question though. My wife and I are hoping to retire in Thailand next year and while I understand the financial requirements for doing so, I"m not clear if the money required is per person or per couple. I can easily manage the financial requirements if it's for both of us, if we have to double the amount I'm not sure.
    Thanks in advance for any input on the matter.
    Reply

    • JamesE says

      Everything is per-person. The financial requirement needs to be in an account solely owned by each applicant. (If Max weighs in he may know of a way around this.) Your best bet might be for one of you to use the retirement visa path and the other to come in on a dependent visa. Or scrap the retirement visa idea and use the money you'll save on insurance to get a Family Elite visa.
      Reply

          • Max says

            Mary, you can start with a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement from your home country and then extend it 1 year at the time at the local immigration office as long as you meet the financial requirements. No insurance needed. That's by far the cheapest and easiest way. A 1 year extension cost 1900 baht.
            Reply

          • JamesE says

            Max's solution is the best - come in on a different visa and change it to a Non-Imm O by reason of retirement from inside Thailand. Currently that has no insurance requirement. However, Thailand has been expanding the insurance requirement to additional classes of visas over the past few years so there's no guarantee that won't happen to the retirement O. Also *all* allowed visas currently require COVID coverage - even the Visa Exemption entry. Most of that coverage also gets more difficult to acquire with age.
            Reply

            • Max says

              If you enter using a 90 days Non-immigrant O based on for example retirement, the insurance incl.covid-cover just have to be valid 90 days. A 90 days travel insurance is not expensive. There's only been one change regarding insurances for many years, and that's the one for the O-A visa incl.extensions starting October 31 2019.
              Reply

              • TheThailandLife says

                The official pathway is to get the Non O Visa (single entry) from your local embassy and then do the extension inside Thailand. You'll need the time to set up your Thai bank account and have the funds deposited for 60 days before you apply for the extension. You can go from a tourist visa to a retirement extension.
                Reply

                  • TheThailandLife says

                    At the moment you would need the COVID cover, but that may not be a requirement by next year, who knows. You can avoid the general health insurance requirement if you come over on the Non O 90-day visa and then do the retirement extension at immigration.
                    Reply

                  • Max says

                    If you already have a bank account, then go for the 90 days Non-immigrant Visa based on retirement. That's by far the easiest and cheapest way to do it. You just need 800k in the bank 2 months prior to the application for the 1 year extension. You MUST have the O Visa at the time of application to get rid of the mandatory health insurance requirement. Just having the money in the bank won't help. If a covid-19 insurance is still needed next year, you just need it to cover 90 days. That's all. I think a vaccination certificate/passport will be available late this year or early next year.
                    Reply

              • JamesE says

                Yes, but... All visas and visa waiver entries require COVID health coverage which is usually (I don't know of any COVID-only policies) issued as part of a travel health plan. Based on your initial comment this is your concern. Coming in on the shortest possible visa will make for the lowest possible health coverage (it only has to be as long as your "stay"). Currently the 60-day SETV (IMO) would be the way to go. 7 - 14 days in quarantine. 3 days to get the bank sorted out. Move the 800K. Get a lease. Get an extension to the SETV and a couple weeks before it expires apply for the Non-O. There is one gotcha: You'll need to come in on a return ticket showing your "departure plan" so you'll need to make accommodations to either reschedule or cancel it. Just another box to tick.
                Reply

                • Max says

                  If you're answering Mary's post, she is not coming this year. The mandatory quarantine will not be necessary when people get vaccinated and have their certificates/vaccin passports in order. This will for sure happen next year.
                  Reply

                  • JamesE says

                    Do tell about the "vaccine passport"... My reading suggests that it is still just a proposal waiting for the tooth fairy - er... WHO - to come up with standards. And insurance before entry is going to become a fact of life. There's too much money for the insurance industry and it is too powerful a national and global lobby to let that money be pulled. I think, based on where the chips fell, that the current shortened quarantine model will be in effect through the year-end, if and when a vaccine passport arrives it will initially be accompanied by an insurance requirement.
                    Reply

                    • TheThailandLife says

                      Surely COVID insurance will just be merged under travel insurance or any other health policy. If confidence in the vaccine is high then COVID will just be another potential illness along with other covered under a standard policy. In the interim we have this extra insurance, but I can't see how that will be justifiable long term. Although I do fear the "COVID economy" will be kept going by those with financial interest: tracking apps, PPE gear, masks, "work safe" consultancies, etc.

                    • JamesE says

                      (Not sure *where* this will show up in the thread stack...) I agree with you that the COVID specific policy will go away but the not the requirement for coverage. I'm also a big fan of the Law of Unintended Consequences which hasn't even gotten started. The knock-on effects of the past year will be enormous and the dominoes haven't started dropping. (Enough metaphors...) Just consider one thing: affordable tourist airfares have always been supported by expensive business travel. Over the past year Zoom, Skype, Meets, etc. have shown businesses that expensive business travel isn't needed. That's going to be huge. However the new normal turns out it will be completely different than where the old normal peaked in 2019.

                    • Max says

                      The thai government has already accepted the proposal of a vaccin certificate/passport. They are just waiting for it to become a standard. It can be a yellow book or/and digital. There will be no covid-19 insurances, that part is covered in the standard travel insurance. There's no conspiracy between insurance companies abroad when it comes to covid-19.

              • Max says

                It's a two step procedure if you enter on a 60 days tourist visa. First, after ~30 days you must change your Visa from tourist to a 90 days Non-immigrant. Cost 2000 baht. Second, after ~60 days you can apply for the 1 year extension. Cost 1900 baht. The most important thing is the thai bank account. If going for the money in the bank method, you'll need 800,000 baht in the account the day you change visa, and 2 months prior to the extension. If you don't have a bank account when entering Thailand, you need to go for the visa change to be able to open an account in time. If needed you can extend the stay another 30 days to get the account and transfer the money before changing the visa.
                Reply

          • Gary Farmer says

            You could take the Non O route by obtaining the long term Visa once in Thailand having entered on one of the short term visas. The advantage of obtaining it in Thailand is there is no obligation for health insurance. There are other requirements such as the bank deposit to consider but atleast it is a way around the Insurance issue needed when the visa is issued anywhere out side of the Kingdom.
            Reply

    • Max says

      If you're talking about the money in the bank method = 800k, then it's 800k per person. But, both of you don't have to apply for the 1 year extension based on retirement. If "you" have the money and meet the financial requirements, you will apply for the 1 year extension and your wife applies for an extension based on dependency. She will actually piggy back on you. You start with a Visa from back home and when it's time to apply for 1 year extensions you will apply for different reasons, you based on retirement and your wife based on being dependent on you. You can read about this online or talk to the embassy/consulate in your home country. This is by far the best way to do it, and you save a lot of money. But don't forget about the pandemic. No one knows when it goes back to normal and when you can apply for visas without quarantine.
      Reply

    • Bob says

      There are three options.

      1. Per person, so both of you have a separate and independent visa.

      2. One of you has a retirement visa, and the other partner applies for a visa as a dependant. This reduces the deposit requirement.

      3. Use an agent, no deposit account requirement. Costs roughly 14,000 baht per visa.

      I would also suggest that you come to Thailand on a tourist visa and apply for a retirement visa in Thailand. This eliminates the health insurance requirement, which for whatever reason "sticks" for each extension to a retirement visa obtained outside of Thailand.
      Reply

      • JamesE says

        It's also important to remember that the visa situation is in flux right now. Some embassies are issuing retirement visas and some aren't. The Thai Embassy in the US is and has added the Non-Immigrant Category O (retirement) visa with no financial requirement but with health and COVID insurance requirements. My guess is that this is to encourage people to come to Thailand and start spending while they build up the finances to meet the 800K฿ requirement for the annual extension. There is no indication that the insurance requirement sticks to this visa like the O-A and O-X, but there also isn't any mention that it does not. The insurance requirement has been encroaching on retirement visas in general so may have reached this one at last. If your plans don't mature until next year keep checking this space... It will all be different by then.
        Reply

        • Max says

          The health insurance including the covid-19 covering $100,000 is just needed for the first 90 days. When applying for the 1 year extension based on retirement at the local immigration office, there are no requirements for any kind of insurance. Regarding the mandatory health insurance for the O-A and O-X, there are no changes.
          Reply

          • JamesE says

            We're talking oranges and tangerines here, Max. You're assuming they would come in on a TV and extend based on retirement once in country. My comments were about getting the non-O based on retirement in the US. I agree your way is the way to go for most people with the caveat that the extension (particularly with regard to new applications) could have an insurance requirement added at any time.
            Reply

  23. WALTER TODD says

    hello; i speak to you as a long term chiang mai expat. it gives me no extra rights. i only mention it to establish a level playing field. i have been using a local visa agency for the past several years. all has gone well until this year. i realize point a to point be is not always a straight line: 1) what is the deal with the letter from the bank? since it is a fairly new requirement added a couple of years ago, has there been a change i don't know about? 2) i am over 70 years old, does that give me any priority privileges with immigration? respond if you have recently been through the beloved ritual of renewing your 1 year retirement visa. thanks rem
    Reply

    • Gary Farmer says

      Hello Walter, I renewed my visa in Sakon Nakhon 2 weeks ago and requires printed bank statements and a bank letter at the cost of 100baht each. I believe the letter serves only to confirm the statements are belonging to your account and that you have sufficient funds in the account to meet the financial requirements for your particular visa application. They use of visa agents placing money in ac counts then removing it was the reason I was given for these bank related documents as Immigration wanted to see when funds entered and exited the account and where the funds came from . I was also asked to fill in a separate form asking for my monthly income despite having the required sum already in my account for the past 18 months. The letter and bank prints only took 10 minutes to produce as long as your Immigration office accepts 6 month statement s and doesnt need the 12 months which only your original Bank branch will supply .
      Reply

      • Max says

        There are no borrowed money transfers from agents to applicants accounts anymore. That was years ago. When using an agent the requirement about having the needed money in the bank goes away. That's what you are paying for. The problem is that you might have to use an agent for the next annual extension as well because of the money you didn't have the year before. The part where you mentioned a form about your monthly income when you're using the money in the bank method must be a mistake from the immigration officer. Those are two totally different methods and have nothing to do with each other.
        Reply

    • Bob says

      Hi,

      If you are using an agent then you will not have an issue with the extra paperwork.

      There has been no changes to the law since the 800/400 bullshit was introduced a couple of years ago. However the official in your face can introduce his/her extra requirements to show that you are complying with the rules.

      Until last year the same official was happy with the bank book, copy of every page and a letter from the bank. Last year the twat decided to require six months statement from the bank. So back to the bank.

      The year before suddenly he wanted a photograph of me outside my rented bunch. That meant a 50 kms round trip. That's after the same officer had issued me 12 consecutive annual extensions without a damn photograph.

      Most of the money you pay an agent goes directly to bribe the immigration department to issues a visa extension without these checks and overlook the 800/400 requirement. "At the discretion of the officer" is the get out clause to make the illegal become legal.

      I am on the verge of using an agent because I am am fed up with dealing with these self-serving arrogant pricks.
      Reply

    • Max says

      There are no changes regarding the 1 year extension based on retirement since January 1 2019. Those changes affected applicants from the US,UK and Australia. Those countries embassies stopped issuing income letters and a 12 months bank statement is needed to show monthly deposits if you're using that method. You also need the usual bank letter from your branch confirming your account. There are no privileges what so ever because of old age. You didn't mention why you had a problem using an agent this year. Chiang Mai immigration is well known for having their own rules when it comes to extensions.
      Reply

  25. Ron Kortsep says

    Peter, I would like to go to Thailand next Jan ,Feb and March. Can I stay say 28 days in Jan go to say Cambodia for say 4 days come back and do the same thing end of Feb and come back for March without a visa ? Last Feb I went for 6 weeks left after 28 days to Cambodia for 3 days and came back for the last 2-3 weeks there were no problems at immigration.
    Reply

    • Max says

      Are you talking about next year? "If" everything goes back to normal including visas, you can enter Thailand by land twice during a calendar year, and each time get 30 days at the border. Those 30 days can be extended another 30 days at the local immigration office.
      Reply

    • Bob says

      It is impossible to give any answer.

      The regulations surrounding COVID determine what will be possible, and these can change daily, without any warning.

      My best guess is that cross border tourism with Cambodia will not be possible until at least 3Q 2022.
      Reply

        • Bob says

          Hi Ron,

          The outlook for international travel is looking bleak. I am currently "Red Zoned" in Chonburi, which means I can't get back home without permission. And if I did manage to escape, the current requirements in the province I live in are a COVID test and two weeks quarantine.

          With luck I will be "Orange Zoned" next week. I am not sure what extra freedom that gives me. If I can at least get to BKK it will be a nice change of scenery from the ghost city I am now in.

          Anyway, Thailand has ordered enough vaccine to give roughly 17 million Thais two shots by early next year. Realistically that means less than 25% of the population by February 2022. The Thai government has already said that the borders will remain almost shut until all Thais have been vaccinated.

          There is absolutely no way that you will be able to border hop to extend a tourist visa in early 2022. However, immigration is currently extending tourist visas in-country which will probably continue, which might be an option.

          The outlook is dismal for 2022.

          Try planning for 2023.

          And if that hasn't depressed you, try this,

          https://capx.co/close-the-borders-now-there-wont-be-a-second-chance/

          I think I need a pack of Prozac.
          Reply

          • Ron Kortsep says

            Hi Bob, Thank you for the update on what's happening there. Actually I'd rather not border hop if I don't have to. I'll look into seeing if I can get a 3 month tourist visa in the fall for early 2022. I was hoping I can avoid that visa process if possible. I'd like to get out of the winter months where I live now in the US northeast. Thailand is my first choice but if it's not reopened by then I'll try another country. Almost all other countries allow 3 months without a visa needed.
            Reply

            • Max says

              At the moment you can forget about visas other than the STV or 60 days tourist visas. Those includes quarantine. We have to see when they will lift the emergency decree in Thailand and when it can go back to "normal" again. It will take a while because of paranoid authorities. By the way,there's no 3 months tourist visa. 90 days visas are Non-O visas. I would go for a 60 days tourist visa whis is extendable 30 days at the local immigration office. You can also do a border hop and get another 30 days when coming back. But again, this will only happen when/if everything goes back to "normal". Just be patient.
              Reply

      • JamesE says

        India is a bit different. It seems like you must go through an approved agent (www.vfs-thailand.co.in) for tourist visas. both the 90-day STV and 60-day single entry TV are shown. India's Visa Waiver participation is different, too: you get 90-days on a visa exemption arrival. The only thing that appears to be different in the application process is that the COE is applied for after you already have a visa. Your best bet, as always, is to contact the Embassy or Consulate that services your state. Good luck.
        Reply

  27. Richard says

    In transferring from WP visa to a Retirement visa, does "proof of address" have to be with a Lease/Tenancy agreement?

    Has anyone any experience where proof of address can/is be substantiated by Bank/Services bills and statements?

    Understand that premises and owner ID are required, of the "address" but we have no formal agreement.
    Reply

    • Max says

      There's no such thing as a wp-visa, you maybe have a Non-B (business) or an extension based on marriage with a wp. You are actually just changing the reason for the extension to one based on retirement. If you don't have a lease/contract, but renting from a Thai, you just need copies from that persons blue house book and thai ID-card, both sides. Then each copy has to be signed at the bottom in blue ink. It won't hurt if you also have a recent utility bill showing the same address.
      Reply

  29. Bob says

    The immigration officer can also require other documents according to his whims, or generally to exert a bit of power. My local office also requires

    1. A map showing location of residence (always been required)

    2. GPS coordinate of residence (which I write on the map) (required for last four extensions)

    3. Photo of me outside residence (required for last two extensions)

    4. Statement from bank covering last six months (last extension)

    I am now seriously considering using an agent to do the extensions. It costs about 15,000 Baht which includes the re-entry permit. I do not want to go this route, as the agent apparently only gets a couple of thousand with the rest going into the pockets of the corrupt immigration officers.

    But it will save me getting wound up as the clown demands some other item. Last year I was forced to make a 40 kms round trip just to get the damn photo of me outside the residence. And then this year a 10 kms round trip to the bank to get the additional statement.
    Reply

  30. John says

    I was not aware of the full bank requirements and allowed my account to drop well below the 400000 baht threshold within 3 months of getting my retirement visa. My retirement visa is due for renewal very soon and I did top up my account above 800000 almost 6 months ago. What is likely to happen when I renew due to my stupidity?
    Reply

    • Max says

      It will depend on the immigration office and the mood of the immigration officer. They can reject your application. You need to show copies of your bank book 12 months back or use a 12 months bank statement. The "new" rule about not going below 400k during 90 days after the application came March 1 2019, so it's a bit wrong to say it's very new.
      Reply

    • Bob says

      Difficult to give a clear answer, as these issues are solely dependent on the office and officer sitting in front of you.

      According to the rules you will not get an extension.

      I extended in July and the officer this year required a bank statement going back six months (so I had to go back to the bank) and a copy of all the pages in the deposit book and a letter from the bank confirming the balance on the day. He then checked the book.

      I would go as soon as possible, wear very smart clothes, and have an envelope with say THB 1k inside. If he says he cannot extend the visa, then plead ignorance and COVID, offer profuse apologies, and ask if anything could be done this time. If it goes along the lines, "well, maybe if you can help me too" slide the envelope over the desk.

      If that fails, then get in contact with an agent. They charge around 15,000 Baht but can get it sorted.

      Or go straight to an agent.
      Reply

      • Bob says

        Last week I know someone who had to pay 15,000 Baht, naturally without receipt, to immigration in order to get an extension. His account had dropped to around 750,000 just a few weeks before the extension was due, and was topped up immediately he knew.

        Another guy I was told paid 30,000.

        You might find it less stressful if you use an agent to do it for you.
        Reply

  31. Tara says

    Hello, and thank you for this article. What if it's the wife that is over 50 years old, but her husband is younger than 50? And if that husband supports his wife, can he still be considered her dependent as long as she opens a Thai bank account in her own name?
    Reply

  32. RG says

    Hi thank you for your informative post. I have my non immigrant O visa. I will extend to a year next month. Firstly I’m confused about the non immigrant O-A, if that is what I get when I extend for a year? Also on insurance...Do I need to show up at immigration with an insurance policy? I have global coverage through my existing insurance provider. How can I know if that will be sufficient? I got a quote from Cigna through the link you provided and they quoted me a silver policy which seems much more than I need. Thanks! RG
    Reply

    • Max says

      No insurance needed if your visa is a Non-O, and it will always be a Non-O. An O-A can only be obtained in your home country. No one at immigration will ask for an insurance and keep your foreign insurance. Don't wait until your visa expires, you can apply for the extension 30 days early at every immigration office,at a few even 45 days early.
      Reply

  33. Nancy says

    Us a U.S. Citizen currently living in Thailand with my husband (he has a non-immigrant OA extension of stay based on retirement visa and I have non-immigrant O dependency visa). While we are still here in Thailand (we have no plans on leaving anytime soon), can we apply for a 10 year extension of stay based on retirement, Visa type OX? We are both over 50 years old and meet all of the requirements for the OX visa. In my research there’s conflicting information as to whether or not we can apply for that visa while we are currently living in Thailand. If it is possible, will we need to travel to Bangkok?
    Reply

    • Max says

      You can only apply for an O-A or O-X in your home country. If not leaving Thailand, your husband must keep extending the stay 1 year at the time, so do you. This is also the cheapest way of staying, 2x 1900 baht/year and only your husband needs the money in the bank or monthly income (and a health insurance). If I were you, I would keep doing it the way you do now.
      Reply

  34. bob says

    Thanks for a really interesting article, I am interested in doing the retirement visa and happy with tghe requirements, My partner would be doing the dependants visa, what is the situation with children? We have a Yacht in Asia and would be moving it to Thailand to live on?
    Can c children be attached to the visa or do they need a different type?
    Reply

    • Max says

      I don't have a clue about rules and regulations if living on a yacht. I have a gut feeling the address must be a fixed one (on land) because you belong to the immigration office in the province where your address is registered. Kids also need their own visas, a dependancy visa same as your wife. Talk to the Thai embassy/consulate in your country.
      Reply

    • Max says

      I forgot to ask you, if you know about the current situation in Thailand with closed borders because of the Covid-19? There's probably no chance you will be able to arrive in Thailand this year. You have to wait until it goes back to "normal", meaning no need for 14 days expensive quarantine for your whole family etc etc.
      Reply

        • James E says

          Sounds like a wager... Terms: 1) Quarantine-free entry. 2) Countries/regions allowed in (at a minimum): EU, UK, AUS, China, Japan, North America. 3) All visas/visa-waiver entries allowed. The Bet: Dinner for four (like your wife would let you go without her...) at Hong Bao.
          Reply

      • Max says

        Bob was asking about the possibility to live on a yacht while on a retirement visa, not visiting as a tourist cruising up and down the coast. I know people living on rafts,but they never move, hence they have a permanent address.
        Reply

        • James E says

          Right. But the websites I linked to provide info specific to yachts. Typically ports of entry have their own immigration and customs offices. In many of the countries I have sailed to, moving ports merely required clearing out of one port and then notifying the authorities when arriving in a new port. I don't have specific experience in Thailand but when needing a "permanent" address it was just typically the marina's at which I was moored or a shore-side mail handling service.
          Reply

  35. Bob says

    From your description

    "How to Renew Your Retirement Visa
    Your retirement visa (extension of stay based on retirement) will last for one year. But don't wait until that year is almost up before you start planning to renew it. In fact, you can renew your visa up to 45 days before it expires.

    Remember that you need to ensure that your Thai bank account balance does not fall below the ฿800,000 threshold three months prior to renewing your visa. "

    I thought it was TWO months before extending the visa.

    (I presume this is the day on which the visa extension is stamped in the passport, not the date from which it is valid)
    Reply

    • Max says

      The money has to be in the bank 2 months prior to the day you apply. You can apply for the 1 year extension 30 days before it expires, even up to 45 days at some immigration offices. Never wait until it expires if some requirements have changed. I always extend mine 30 days early.
      Reply

  36. Philip Robinson says

    I have a retirement visa obtained by using the 800,000Bht lump sum method my extension is due Dec 2020 when i want to go down the 65,000Bht month income method I will have a updated bank acc book and 12 months statements showing a regular pension income going into my account. As i will still have 800,000 Bht in my account how do i tell immigration that i want to change from lump sum to income. I want to ensure this is okay as next year i don't want restrictions on how much money i keep in my account
    Reply

    • Max says

      You don't have to tell immigration anything. You must have at least 400k in your account the day you apply for the 1 year extension based on a monthly income of at least 65k. You need the bank letter from your Thai bank, the bank book showing international transfers and a 12 months bank statement showing regular monthly international deposits. That's all. Plus the usual stuff like copies from your passport etc.
      Reply

  37. S. V. Boykins says

    Hello,
    Your information is very helpful. I'm hoping you can assist with a question I have been trying to answer for a little while. Are there any exceptions for the age requirement? I am a 42 years old, disabled, combat veteran, retired from the military. I meet all other requirements set forth except for age. Is this an area with any leniency or consideration for extenuating circumstances? I have all the required supporting documents (notarized by the embassy) showing service connection and banking information readily accessible.
    Thank you in advance.
    Reply

    • Max says

      The answer is a big NO. There are no exceptions what so ever regarding the age. 50 years of age is a must when going for the retirement visa. That I can assure you. If you have 500,000 baht, you can apply for The Thailand Elite Visa. It's valid 5 years, and can be extended. Next option is getting married to a Thai lady, but first you need to find one, and it's not that easy. It will also take some time. Check out the Thailand Elite Visa website:
      https://www.thailandelite.com/?locate=en
      Are you in Thailand now? If not, you can forget about Thailand for quite a while because of the Covid-19.
      Reply

  38. MIKE ALBANESE says

    Hi Peter
    Quick question. Im here in Thailand on a multi-entry OA retirement Visa. I arrived this year January 31 2020. I used my bank account from my home country to show the Embassy since I didnt have a Thai account.

    I opened an account in February but did do the 65,000 Baht transfers or put 800K Baht in either. In July I just started doing the 65,000 transfers ut I'm reading I need 12 months to show Immigration.

    Did I read correctly I can put 800K in my Thai account 3 months prior to my extension? Thanks for any help. Cheers.
    Reply

    • Max says

      Is this your first entry using your O-A Visa? Normally,people with O-A Visas do a border run to a neighbouring country just before it expires, and on re-entry gets the second year for free. But now with the borders closed and no one knows when they open again, you "might" have to extend it at your local immigration office from about 30 days before it expires. You need 800k in a Thai bank account 2 months prior to the application. Then you must not go below 800k for the next 90 days. After that not below 400k until next 1 year extension when you have to top it up to 800k again. And you'll need the mandatory health insurance when applying because of the initial O-A Visa.
      Reply

    • James E says

      You've got another option which is to combine your 65KBaht monthly with the bank deposit. So July - January = 7 x 65K = 455KBaht. That can work as a credit against your 800K requirement so you would only need 345K in the bank. Thereafter you can go with the 65K/Mo method by itself. There are, of course, some gotchas with this method. First is that you have to have your bank show that they were foreign transactions with a letter (read through Max's comments below (and in the Transferwise thread) as he discusses this in detail). Second, unless the money is coming from a prior year's income, you may have to prove that you paid taxes in your home country on the money you transferred.
      Reply

      • Max says

        Normally immigration wants to see 12 monthly foreign deposits + an amount in a Thai bank to be able to use the combination method. BUT, everything depends on the immigration office. Several will say no, of that I'm sure, but you never know. Asking at the local immigration office won't hurt.
        Reply

  39. Richard Julius says

    I entered Thailand on the 20th of Jan 2020, on a 30 day tourist visa then Keyvisa in Pattaya provided me with a 90day and a 12 month retirement OA visa I have a self funded pension income of 80,000bht per month. I believe Keyvisa applied for my Visa based on 800,000bht in the bank, they were not forthcoming with much detail, and have not since unfortunately and I moved straight to Udonthani.
    So I had to change address details and ultimately bank branch as well. I also had to make application for multi entry as they did apply for this either which I paid them for. I had to do this remotely as I was already booked on a flight to Udonthani 2 days after my application and had to send my passport back the Keyvisa in Pattaya for them to complete!
    I have not held the required amount of 800,000bht in my account as I wanted to do it based on monthly income which I also told them. Unfortunately as said previously Keyvisa did not give me much detail!
    I have held 400,000bht in my account since then. When I apply for my first retirement visa extension will they reject it because I did not have the 800,000bht for 2 months after my arrival?
    My pension is a self funded retirement (SFR) pension so I don't believe the Australian Embassy will be able to verify it through the Australian Government. I can show related documentation of the SFR pension.
    Thanks in advance for your response 🙂
    Reply

    • Max says

      Why didn't Key Visa give you the correct info?
      First of all: Your initial visa can't be a Non-immigrant O-A. An O-A Visa can only be obtained in your home country. You have a 1 year extension based on a Non-immigrant O Visa.
      Secondly: If you used the money in the bank method, you MUST keep 800k in the bank for 90 days after the application (not after arrival) and then never below 400k until next 1 year extension if you're going to change to the monthly income method. If still going for the 800k in the bank, you must top up the money to 800k again 2 months prior to the application. Yes, Jomtien Immigration can reject your next application if you didn't keep 800k or more, in the bank for 90 days. Didn't Key Visa inform you about this?? If they didn't (and you're 100% sure) you have to take it up with them. This can be a big problem. Because of the non-existing income letter from your embassy you need to show 12 months of deposits (>65k/month) using a bank statement from your Thai bank,and they have to be foreign.
      Reply

  40. Pauline Cornell says

    I have a Retirement Visa of 0ne year. I have prescribed medical drugs as I have a lung disease, Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease. I leave Thailand once a year, every 6 months, to go home to Canada and upon my return to Thailand I am advised the laws of Thailand allow me only a one month supply of doctors prescribed drugs. Is there any way, any law, that says I can be excepted from the law and therefore keep my 6 months of meds. Also, I have a Doctor's letter stating the drugs are not narcotics and are only address my lung disease and other such problems. Thank you. I am hoping someone knows of an exemption for cases such as mine.
    Reply

    • James E says

      There are two options. If you're in the UK you can apply for an O-A or O-X visa both of which come with financial, health, background, and insurance requirements. A better option (look through the comments for posts by Max) is to come in to Thailand using a different visa (eg. METV), get it converted to an O Based on Retirement and then (for now anyway) you'll only be burdened with meeting the 800KBaht financial requirements.
      Reply

  42. Kei Kimpara says

    I have been on Retirement Non Immigration "O" Visa for past 3 years with Baht800K in my Thai saving account . However, from this year, I plan to extend the visa based with my Pension (over Baht 65,000 per month) instead of Baht 800K per year. So, I spent over Baht 400K from the Baht 800K from my saving account leaving the balace less then Bahts 400K. Now, I have been told (by Visa arranging private company on my behalf) that since I violated keeping at least Baht400K for the whole year, the immigration Office will not extend my Visa. Not only that, it would be difficult to get a new Retirement Visa even if I apply the visa from outside of Thailand since I violated the immigration law. Did anyone had the same case in the past? If anyone could provide me useful advice, I would very much appreciate it.
    Reply

    • Max says

      Why did you go below 400k? The new requirements from March 1 2019 clearly states that you need to keep 800k in the bank 3 months after the application and then never go below 400k for the next 7 months until next 1 year extension when you have to top it up to 800k 2 months prior to the application. This is crystal clear, and there's been reports about people applying for the extension being denied. You have to start over again by leaving the country (but now it's not possible to do a border run because of the Emergency decree), but you might also be on overstay because you did violate the immigration law. Did immigration give you a hard No? I don't know if an agent can help you, but at the moment during the visa/extension amnesty the routines have changed. Just ask around. Where are you staying?
      Reply

  43. Fred Prager says

    Probably missed this but what is the up to date list of documents required for renewal of the so called Retirement VISA. I know about the 12 month bank statement, bank guarantee, passport copies, Extension of stay form, hand drawn map of house location but don;t want to schlep all the way to Chaeng Wattana and find I forgot something. Thanks for all you hlep and keep up the good work. Stay safe.
    Reply

    • Max says

      The requirements differ between immigration offices. Strange but true. CW and a couple more like Chiang Mai are well know for requirements that are not exactly official. Is this your first 1 year extension based on retirement at CW? If you're a tenant,you also need a copy of your rental contract and a copy of the owners (if Thai) ID-card (front and back) and blue house book (both signed by the owner in blue ink. The equivalent if renting from a foreigner,a real estate agent or if you are the owner. CW 'might' even ask for a copy of the TM30 (notification of stay) receipt. Every copy from your passport and bank book(don't forget the first page) must be signed at the bottom in blue ink. You'll never know if they want something else than the stuff above. I did my 1 year extension at Jomtien Immigration last Thursday and it took only a few minutes (as usual). No strange requirements like drawn maps.
      Reply

  44. Fred Prager says

    I have opted for the 65,000/month option and have a few questions:
    1. Can I use the money for monthly living expenses as long as I can show 12 months of deposits.
    2. My bank, Bangkok Bank, says it will take 2 weeks to obtain a detailed statement of 12 months of activity. This will make the letter out of date by the time I go to Immigration.
    3. If I get a letter showing 11 months of deposits and have a bank book showing the 12th month will that suffice for the 12 month requirement. This would be due to the timing of requesting the letter, when I receive my monthly pension, the expiration date of my VISA and going to Immigration
    Reply

    • Max says

      It's at least 65k/month,never below and regular deposits every month about the same time every month, and of course you can use the money. That's what they're for.
      Getting a 12 months bank statement normally never takes longer than a week at Bangkok Bank, sometimes faster depending on branch. You'll need a 12 months bank statement and copies from the bank book showing the last week or two will most likely suffice. Remember that every monthly transfer have to show up as foreign/international. You also need a bank letter (aka Bank guarantee) from your bank. The fee is ฿100. The fee for the bank statement is normally ฿200.
      Reply

        • Max says

          The bank letter or as Thai banks usually calls it, a bank guarantee, you get from your Bangkok Bank branch. It shows that you have an account at the bank and it's important. You must update your bank book the same day as you get your bank letter. The balance must be the same. You need to get the bank letter the day before your visit CW. Some immigration offices wants to see a transaction in the bank book (the same day you go to the bank) as proof of an active account. I always withdraw 2000 baht (100 to the bank and 1900 to immigration) from an ATM the day I visit the bank for the bank letter. After the withdrawal, the updated bank book and the bank letter must show the same balance.
          Reply

  45. alan says

    Hi, I have been on the on the retirement O visa for a few years.

    Last couple of times at annual renewal in Bangkok, I am getting pressure to have my required funds with a Thai bank ( Bangkok, Kasikorn etc) rather than a Foreign bank in Thailand e.g Citibank Thailand.

    To me both are Thailand bank accounts, regardless of origin of the bank's shareholders. But do you know if the rules are Thai owned bank or just a bank account in Thailand?

    Any official requirement you can direct me to or just the whim of the immigration guy on the day?

    cheers
    alan
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      The rule is, as far as I am aware, "in a bank in Thailand":At least 2 months prior to filing date, and at least 3 months after being granted permission, the alien must have fund deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than THB 800,000. The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,00 or.I've met folk who use UOB, which isn't a Thai bank.
      Reply

  46. Brad says

    How does immigration check that the 800000 has remained in your account for 3 months after the visa issuance? Do you have to show them a copy of your bank book at the first 90-day report? It seems quite strange; I mean we need the money in the account to show we have enough to live on, but then they don't let us touch it. Pretty humorous. It's becoming quite clear that gov't is trying to discourage people from retiring in Thailand. But whatever.
    Reply

    • Max says

      It depends on where you're staying. It's up to the immigration office if they want to see your 800k in the bank after 90 days. Jomtien Immigration in Pattaya does a so called "90 days check".
      Other offices requires a 12 month bank statement showing the 800k for 3 months and that the balance hasn't gone below 400k until 2 months before next application when you have to top it up to 800k again.
      Reply

    • James E says

      Yes, to your question. My take on the remaining 400K is not that you don't have money to live on but that you do have money for emergencies and to leave. I find it curious that the amount required is the same amount that those with an O-A - and its 400K medical insurance minimum - are expected to have. I don't think they're trying to discourage people from retiring, it's just that they're trying to make sure they don't get stuck picking up the tab.
      Reply

  47. Larry says

    Hi, I cannot get a solid answer from immigration office re: rule for health insurance for expats. I entered in 2009 with a non-immig. A-O stamp and have continued renewal of Ret. Ext. of Stay. I'm told now I must have proof of health insurance when I renew this next July 1, 2020. Two of my farang friends have renewed within the last 2 months "with no need of this proof" and got the renewal.

    Another problem is I'm 78 yo and Thai Ins. companies I've called will not sell to me. One said maybe not after 80 yo; so then what do we do. I directly asked Jomtien immig.office that question and not only did not get an answer but I was ignored. So many things not set in stone but on the day you appear for assistance any one officer can demand you have "this certain document"
    Reply

  48. carlos boada says

    immigration dos not seem to know that my wife can obtain the visa as my dependent. They insist that she must show proof of income just as I do,
    Could you please indicate the article number of the law so that I can show igt to them?
    Thank you,
    Carlos
    Reply

  49. Sylver says

    Hi there.

    For renewing the retirement visa after 1 year of stay you mentioned:

    Remember that you need to ensure that your Thai bank account balance does not fall below the ฿800,000 threshold three months prior to renewing your visa.

    1. But isn't the requirement that the ฿800,000 must be in the bank for 2 months before your visa application? Or is the 2 month requirement only for new retirement applications and not for renewal of existing retirement visas?

    2. Is there any benefit of renewal of existing retirememt visa as against applying for a new one?

    3. After completion of 1 year or at anytime if we want to cancel our retirement visa, can we withdraw/transfer the 800k Bht from the Thai bank? What is the process to be followed for cancellation of the retirement visa if required?

    Thanks,
    Sylver
    Reply

    • Max says

      The 800k has to be in the bank 2 months prior to the day you apply for the extension,and they have to stay in the bank 3 months after the application,then never below 400k until 2 months before next extension when you have to top it up to 800k again. That's the new rules from March 1 2019. Why would you not apply for a new 1 year extension? If you don't,then you have to leave the country,and return on a tourist visa or a 30 days visa exempt,and then convert it to a 90 days Non-immigrant visa at the local immigration office,then after 60 days apply for a 1 year extension. Only an idiot won't extend a 1 year extension because of the need to leave the country and go to an embassy/consulate in a neighbouring country (or go back home) to get a 60 days tourist visa or just do a border run for a 30 days Visa exempt. Then 2 different applications at immigration. If you want to leave Thailand you don't have to cancel the permission to stay, you can go to the bank and repatriate the money,then just leave and your permission to stay has automatically expired. If you're thinking about starting all over again in a couple of years,then think again. It's not that easy and not worth it. Maybe another type of visa would be better for you.
      Reply

  50. Igor says

    Hello, my wife and I entered Thailand with a Non-Imm visa O in March and will need to extent our stay in June for one year. I got a list of required documents at the Imm. Office. Document 7: MAP (satellite view of the house from Google map: latitude, longtitute), but then comes document with a number 10: "drawing map". What is this? Do I need to draw the plan of the area near my house? Or can I present a copy of a non-satellite Google map (which also resembles a drawing, with roads on it)?
    And a second question, please. I am the owner of a house and have a household book (a blue one). In the list of documents number 9 is: House rental contract and copy of your household book (OK, I made a copy of this book). But then comes document 11: Document for Notification of the residence of foreigners. Do I need this document if I am an owner? If yes, then where can I obtain it?
    Thank you
    Reply

    • Max says

      After 60 days into your 90 days Visa you can apply for the 1 year extension. You can not wait until it expires. But now with the current coronavirus situation, you might get a free 30 days extension on top of the 90 days if the situation hasn't improved. You better ask at your Immigration office. A handdrawn map showing how to get to your office from your house is needed at some immigration offices. Document 11 is a so called TM30 report. Several immigration offices requires a TM30 report to be submitted prior to the 1 year extension application. The report can be submitted at the immigration office by the owner/landlord/possessor of the condo/house. You might get fined (both of you) for not doing this when you arrived in Thailand. The fine depends on the office,from 800 to 1600 baht each. The TM30 report is free of charge. So,you should visit your Immigration office and get it done. You'll get a receipt stapled in your passport.
      Reply

  51. Randy says

    "Ministry of Foreign affairs in Bangkok." You mention this location for renewing a retirement visa. Is this a different location than Chaengwattana and, if so, where is it. Trying to avoid the overloaded areas of Chaengwattana if possible.
    Reply

  52. Mark says

    In the present situation corona 19 I was told by Hull immigration was closing for the foreseeable future Are you still processing visas as I don’t want to send my passport with paperwork and left not knowing if I’m getting my passport back in time could you update me as per the situation
    Kind regards m stables
    Reply

  53. Chris says

    I am currently on my second extension of an Non Immigrant ED visa. I will get another extension yet which will expire in October. My question is, can I extend this visa in October for the purpose of retirement, provided I meet all requirements?
    Reply

    • Max says

      You can change the reason for the extension,but I know for sure it's not accepted at every immigration office. I don't know why. If it's accepted at your local immigration office, then you need to cancel the ED and you need to show immigration a cancellation letter from your school and at the same day as the cancellation apply for the 1 year extension based on retirement. There's a lot of time until October and you might not be able to ask an IO anyway because of the current virus situation. So just sit tight for a while.
      Reply

  54. Kathy Gardner says

    We are planning on spending 6 months based in Thailand each year when we retire but returning to the UK for 6 months. During our stay in Thailand we would like to use it as a base to take trips around other Asian countries. What would be the best visa to have?
    Reply

    • James E says

      Multi-entry tourist visa, if you're planning on any stay within a 6-month period to be over 60 days. You could also do a 30-day visa exemption entry with an extension if needed but the extension would entail a visit to immigration. If your time in Thailand is mostly going to be 30-days or less, I'd go the exemption route. It all depends on your plans for visiting around the area and how long you think you'll be spending in Thailand.
      Reply

  55. Henry Byrne says

    Hi Max, at almost 75yrs old and being the worrying type, i need to confirm and reconfirm, that if i have a certified letter of income from my Embassy (Ireland) re monthly income exceeding 65k, i can leave these funds in my bank in Ireland, and theres no need to do monthly transfers to a thai bank...
    I will relax only when i see re-confirmation of confirmation of above lol!
    Henry
    Reply

    • Bubba says

      That is difficult to answer. Is your money in a time deposit? What country are you returning to? How much money or negotiable instruments are you taking out of the country? Are you taking the money physically or doing a wire transfer? If you are a United States citizen you need to review the Treasury Departments rules as well as the Department of Homeland Security & US Customs rules to avoid having your funds confiscated at the border!
      Reply

      • James E says

        Bubba's exactly right but it goes a bit deeper. In general you are prohibited from physically moving more than the equivalent of US$10,000 in *any* form: cash, securities, gold, whatever. However, even if you are moving less than 10-Large and you get stopped, you will have some explaining to do. Second, Thailand prohibits (with a few exceptions) from moving Baht out of the country. So you can't just take it back home and sell to incoming tourists on eBay or whatever. You can wire out forex from any bank which will expose you to the dreaded buy-sell spread and wire fees. Or some of the transfer services (Western Union at this point) will do an outbound transfer. Don't know the fees and conversion rates they're offering though and there is probably a limit of the size of the transfer. If you are moving more than US$10-grand then I'd just do a bank wire transfer, it's safe and secure. You could, I suppose, sell your Baht to (an)other expat(s) in exchange for money in your bank at home. But that would take some coordination.
        Reply

  57. Thomas J Jacobson says

    Hi I have been working Thailand for the past five years and want to retire here with my wife. due to new visa requirements do we need to leave the country and re-enter with an O visa or can we apply in country for a visa extension due to retirement?
    Reply

  58. David R says

    TTL very informative and I hope can help with my situation.
    For three years now I have visited Thailand 9-10 times per year on 2 week holidays(on arrival stamp) and intended to keep this up for the next 4 years and then retire in Thailand.
    But I have been told soon immigration will not accept this amount of travel without a visa.
    If this is the case a retirement visa seems to be the way to go as over 50, property and a bank account with regular transfers in Thailand.
    My issue is where to get the non O visa and then converting to retirement visa with only ever being in Thai for 2 weeks at a time and reading the conversion is after 60 days.
    I live and work in Saudi Arabia and only go home to Scotland two times a year for 4 days so getting the o visa could be a problem with the time constraints.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi David, you can just get a single entry tourist visa for your visits, or better still a multiple entry that lasts 6 months. You can get the O visa in a neighboring country to Thailand. You may be able to get one at the Thai embassy in SA.
      Reply

  59. Dennis Gabriel says

    Hi,
    I'm planning to retire in Thailand, from Australia. I'm 68, and on pension. The Thai Embassy says that from October 2019, a Retirement Visa in Thailand MUST have Health Insurance from a Thai broker. Is this true? I have not got one in Australia, and I always take out Travel Insurance.
    Please enlighten.
    Dennis.
    Reply

  60. Sandy says

    So what is the very latest, most current information regarding how much money one needs for a retirement visa. I just renewed mine after much difficulty and was no longer allowed to use my monthly income PLUS the correct amount in a savings account. I was told I would either need the correct income in a local account now only for 12 months straight OR 800,000. in a savings account for six months total and a balance of 400,000. all the time now. I was forced to use an agency. ARe they legal?
    Reply

    • James E says

      They're legal but expensive for what you get. The income model is tough now that the embassies (US and UK anyway) have stopped issuing income verification letters. You have to show the income from a foreign source on your bank book with (typically) a letter from the bank confirming same.
      Reply

    • Max says

      I guess you were going for the combination method? If you didn't have correct documents (see below), then the imm.office was correct. If you had, then they were wrong about not allowing it. There's been some confusion about the combo method for people from the US,UK and Australia since they can't obtain income letters from their embassies since January 1 2019. Instead they need a 12 month bank statement from the bank showing foreign transfers + a bank letter. Several imm.offices don't like the extra paperwork and are to lazy/stupid doing the math combining income with money in the bank. There were a new police order released recently which states that the combo method is officially accepted. At some offices no problem at all, at others,not so easy. The best way is to ask for a supervisor (or simply the boss) at the local imm.office. They should know about the new police order. If you're going for the combo method next year, then you need to show 12 straight monthly foreign deposits arriving at about the same time of the month + the money in the bank.
      Reply

  61. ray goodwin says

    TTL. Thanks for your site. I stumbled across it and has everything I have been looking for, and info appears spot on. I am planning on commencing my retirement crusade next year in Pattaya. I have had , for many years a bank acc. with Kasikorn Phucket branch. Will that suffice , or will I need an account in Pattaya? Many Thanks. Ray.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi Ray, you will still be able to bank at Kasikorn in Pattaya but you may run into issues with admin, such as if you need a letter from the bank for a particular purpose - they may say you need to go to the branch you opened the account with. I've run into this myself on a couple of occasions with Bangkok Bank when traveling outside of BKK. Transferring and receiving money, and withdrawing isn't an issue, but getting a replacement card or bank book might be. It's bank dependent and branches have different rules at times.Speak with the bank when you get settled and ask if they can transfer the account to that branch. If not, ask if you would benefit from closing the account and reopening one with them. Alternatively, keep that account and open a new one with another bank in Pattaya. All the best.
      Reply

  62. Brent says

    I am from Canada and planning to retire to Thailand in a year at the age of 60. I will be giving up Canadian residency [not Citizenship] and living in Thailand for approximately 6 months a year, traveling for 3 and then 3 months in Canada. My investments are in Canada but because I will no longer be residing there I am not required to file a Canadian tax return. My question is: Do I file a Thailand tax return on the investment income I have from Canada? thx for any help you can provide.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      You will still have a tax liability (Thailand is not a tax haven) so you'll have to pay it somewhere. However, I'd be careful about this because you may lose a portion of your Canadian pension - I've read it's 25%. Personally I'd speak to the Canadian tax man and get some proper advise on benefits vs. losses. I'd be inclined to still file a tax return in Canada and keep everything easy. You don't want to start getting involved with the Thai tax system if you don't have to.
      Reply

    • Max says

      You're not giving up Canadian residency just because you're leaving Canada,and your saying you'll stay in Canada 3 months a year and only ~6 months in Thailand. That means you'll not pay any taxes in Thailand. I guess you will still have a home or personal property in Canada,social ties,Canadian drivers license and passport. You will pay taxes in Canada like you never left.
      Check out this website:

      https://canchamthailand.org/becoming-expat-need-know/
      Reply

      • brent says

        Thank you, Max and ThailandLife. While I am currently a Canadian citizen I am not a resident [i need to live 6-month +1 day to retain my Canadian residency, which I stopped doing a number of years ago]. I spent 5 years in Australia and the last 10 in the USA. I currently file my taxes in the USA as a USA resident but not in Canada [ok by both USA and Canada accounts]. While I have a house in Canada, it is a vacation property and does not impact my residency. When I retire by income will come virtually all from investments held in Canada [capital gains]. It is my understanding that Thailand has no tax on capital gains that are obtained outside of Thailand. As a reference, I used to have a business in Thailand [yoga center] and have spent a significant amount of time in Thailand. I am not looking at this as a tax haven, but do want to live the bulk of my year in Thailand, but also do not want to leave money on the table for the taxman if it is not required.

        .
        Reply

    • Mojo says

      You could be taxed in Thailand on any INCOME that you bring into Thailand to live on. You should not be taxed on any CAPITAL you bring in. Therefore you should split your savings or investments into 2 accounts - one for initial capital and one for the yield (income), eg. interest, from that capital. Have your bank or investment manager put any yield immediately into the 'income' account away from the capital and then use only the capital account to transfer money to Thailand. That way there should be no tax liabilty on what you bring into Thailand.
      Reply

      • TheThailandLife says

        The law stipulates that anyone who resides in Thailand for longer than 180 days is considered a resident for tax purposes. This means you’ll need to pay tax on your global income, which is money you earn in your home country and any other country. If you are a foreigner and reside in Thailand for fewer than 180 days each calendar year, then you will only have to pay tax on the earnings that you earn inside Thailand.Please read this post for the correct information on paying tax in Thailand: https://www.thethailandlife.com/income-tax-thailand
        Reply

        • Max says

          A pension is also an income, but normally earned in your home country. When staying in Thailand as a retiree with an official pension even 365 days a year, you don't have to to pay tax in Thailand if your home country has a double tax agreement that includes pension with Thailand. I have officially migrated to Thailand,meaning I have what they call it "cut the strings" to my home country, but still pay tax there,but less than normal due to special tax laws when migrating as a retiree.
          Reply

          • TheThailandLife says

            Yes, I know. That's what I am saying. A pension is an income, and in most countries pensions are taxed at source - so no tax would be due in Thailand. As I have noted, the double tax treaty prevents double taxation.
            Reply

  63. Paul and Dow says

    I am an Australian citizen moving to Thailand to live permanently at the end of this year or early next year at which time I will be 60 years old. I have been married to my Thai wife for 35 glorious years - therefore can apply either for a retirement or spouse visa / extension of stay (I will not be working in Thailand). I am intending to take out health insurance for myself and my wife no matter which option I proceed with. I will be transferring THB400,000 or THB800,000 in support of the visa application once I am able to open a bank account in my name. My questions are - what visa type do I need to apply for initially to be able to open a bank account? Can we travel to Thailand on one way tickets as our first flight out of Thailand is unlikely to be back to Australia? Any comments on the pros and cons for each visa type would also be appreciated.
    Reply

    • Max says

      If you want less money in the bank for the visa and you're officially married, you can go for the 90 days Non-immigrant O (Spouse). But, because of you having no thai bank account and you can apply for the extension after 60 days, it might be tight. Where will you stay in Thailand? That's as important as having a bank account (which is real important) at the immigration office. To get more time for opening a bank account and getting the documents needed if chosing the Visa based on marriage, then starting with a 60 days tourist visa obtained in Australia is better. After 30 days you convert the visa to a 90 days Non-immigrant O (Spouse),then after 60 days you can apply for the 1 year extension. You need 400,000 baht in the bank the day you start the conversion and same amount 2 months prior to the 1 year extension. The most important thing is the bank account. Without a thai bank account you can't get any visa, and the money needs to be transferred from Australia as soon as possible when you have the bank account. The cons with a visa based on marriage is the shitload of documents needed. Marriage certificates needs to be translated the correct way if you got married in Australia. If you got married in Thailand you need the certificate from the district office,the Amphoe where you got married.3-4 photos needs to be taken showing your home incl. house number,2 photos of you and your wife inside the house/condo. A visit from the immigration office to verify you're really living together.
      If money is no problem,then a visa based on retirement is better,but NOT the O-A Long stay visa you obtain in Australia. That visa requires an approved thai health insurance which is expensive and somewhat useless. (You can get a better thai insurance when the 1 year extension is obtained.) Better to start with a 60 days tourist visa incl conversion and the 1 year extension the way I explained earlier. 800,000 baht in the bank is needed the day when you're applying for the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement and same amount 2 months prior to the 1 year extension. It's less paperwork using the visa based on retirement method incl the extension but more money has to be kept in the bank. The bank account must be in your name only. No joint accounts are allowed. A long term condo/house rental contract is also needed.
      Reply

      • Paul and Dow says

        Thanks for the speedy and comprehensive reply Max,

        We will be staying in Lopburi in a house we have built in my wife's name. We were married in Bangkok and have the Thai marriage certificate, but taking your advice, the retirement visa appears the better option. We are going to Thailand in March for a three week holiday and normally would get the 30 day entry stamp at the airport on arrival. Would it be worthwhile applying for a multiple entry spouse visa for this trip and trying to open up a bank account? When we move to Thailand permanently, this would be one less hurdle to overcome.
        Reply

        • Max says

          You're saying your coming for 3 weeks just to open a bank account and then go back home again? To be able to apply for the conversion to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement, you either enter Thailand on a 30 days Visa exempt or on a 60 days tourist visa obtained in Australia. The ME Visa is actually a waste of money, and why do you need it? You have a property,that's good and a plus when opening a bank account. I recommend going with Bangkok Bank. Go to the immigration office in Lopburi as fast as possible and apply for a Certificate of Residence.You need copies of your wifes house book and her thai ID-card,both of them signed by your wife in blue ink. And copies of your passport, the photo page,entry stamp and the TM6-card (that's the departure card). You have to ask for the form for the certificate at immigration. The certificate is normally an "open Sesame" at Bangkok Bank.
          Reply

        • Paul and Dow says

          Thank you again Max, The holiday in March isn't specifically to open a bank account, it was just something I thought I might be able to do while we are there. Thanks for the recommendation about Bangkok Bank. My wife has held a Bangkok Bank account since we met back in the 80s and some of the staff recognise us when we go back for holidays. Good tip about the Certificate of Residence - it will be one of the first things I do when we make the permanent move. The pieces of the puzzle are falling together nicely
          Reply

          • Max says

            Just being recognized at the bank while being an old customer can sometimes be enough to be able to open an account. It's sometimes easier to open a savings account in a place like Lopburi compared to more touristy locations.
            Maybe you should pop by the bank and talk to them before going to the immigration office. Your wife might work as a reference. I'm just saying.
            Reply

          • Bubba says

            I brought a "letter of introduction" from my US credit union and used it to open an account at Bangkok Bank. It simply was a statement on the bank's letterhead that showed when the account had been opened and the average monthly balance. That was all it took. (I don't think the rep even knew what it was. She just needed something official looking to justify opening the account. )
            Reply

  64. Paul Underwood says

    I am rather confused about the requirement for health insurance.
    I have a “retirement” visa and have heard conflicting information about obtaining the extension.
    please advise if the insurance is required.
    I am nearly 70 years old with health problems so doubt insurance available.
    If it is necessary, is there an alternative visa?
    Reply

    • Max says

      If you're on annual extensions based on a Non-immigrant O-A Visa obtained in your home country,then yes, you need an approved thai health insurance when applying for next extension. If you're on annual extensions based on a Non-immigrant O Visa,then you don't need an insurance. At your age,the insurance will be quite expensive and probably with a few exclusions.
      If you're on an O-A Visa, and don't want the insurance, your only option is to leave for a neighbouring country, without a re-entry permit. Then you will "kill" your extension when returning. You have to start over again with for example a 30 days Visa exempt and then convert it to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa at your local immigration office. Then after 60 days apply for a 1 year extension. No insurance needed. Where are you staying?
      Reply

    • Gary says

      Hi Paul, I obtained an extension to my retirement visa 2 weeks ago at the Bangkok Immigration office and there was no requirement to have health insurance . I believe this relates to when the visa is obtained outside Thailand but not inside. I'm sure I will corrected if wrong but I can only go by my own experience and assure you there was no health requirement when I obtained my renewed extension .
      Reply

      • Gary says

        As Max pointed out the O-A visa comes with health insurance requirements where as the O visa doesnt require them not did itrequire a police criminal record check or medical check when first obtained . I deliberately chose the O visa as it was less complicated and in light of the health insurance requirements attached to the O-A visa it will obviously by considerably cheaper too over the years to come hopefully.
        Reply

      • Max says

        An O-A Visa can only be obtained in your home country,while an O Visa can be obtained both in your home country and at the local immigration office in Thailand via a conversion from a 30 days Visa exempt or a 60 days tourist Visa.
        Reply

        • Bubba says

          One important difference between the O-A and O visa that can't be overlooked is the overstay requirement. With the O-A visa you enter the country and you have 365 days befote you must leave on a single entry or multi-entry visa. An O visa is similar but you have only 90 days before you must leave the country to avoid an overstay violation. A multi-entry visa allows you to come and go, but you still must leave every 90 days. That gets costly and inconvenient as you get older!
          Reply

          • Max says

            You have obviously misunderstood the Non-O Visa. You start with a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa obtained in your home country or in Thailand at the local immigration office. After 60 days you apply for a 1 year extension. Cost 1900 baht. You don't have to leave every 90 days. You extend the stay annualy the same way you extend the stay based on an O-A Visa. Understand?
            Reply

            • TheThailandLife says

              It is still possible to get a multiple entry Non Immigrant O Visa (based on marriage). So if you don't do a 1-year extension after the 60 days in Thailand, you can leave every 90 days and then stamp in for a further 90 days. This is no longer available at the London Thai Embassy but is at other Embassies and consulates in neighboring countries such as, Laos (Savannakhet) and Vietnam (Ho Chi Minh City) (embassy), and at the Royal Thai Consulate in Penang, Malaysia (with 400k baht in a bank or proof of income).
              Reply

              • Bubba says

                The whole issue with the visas is a mess. An O-A visa for a spouse allows you to stay and an O-A visa for a non-non-spouse requires you to leave? The Thai embassy in the US on the overstay as well as the Thai government website is explicit on the 90 day limit. I guess everything is at the discretion of the authorities.
                Reply

                • TheThailandLife says

                  Indeed, Max, but Bubba mentioned the ME Non-immigrant O Visa, and you responded saying: "You have obviously misunderstood the Non-O Visa. You start with a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa obtained in your home country or in Thailand at the local immigration office. After 60 days you apply for a 1 year extension"So it is important to clarify that your answer only provides half the picture, and people should know that you don't need to extend if you have the ME Non O because you can simply leave after 90 days and then stamp in again, something many of us have been doing for years. The single entry Non O is a pathway to doing the extension based on retirement, but you can also do this with a ME Non O.
                  Reply

                  • Max says

                    The ME 90-days Non-immigrant O based on marriage is not an alternative for a retiree. The only visas are the O-A and the O Visa based on retirement with annual 1 year extensions.
                    No retiree uses the ME 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa. That visa is normally used by people not meeting the requirements for an O-A or an O Visa.
                    Reply

                    • TheThailandLife says

                      I didn't say it was an alternative. I have one. I can do a retirement extension at any time using this visa, in the same way you can using the single entry Non O. That is the point being made.

    • Max says

      Paul,
      A friend of mine was in your situation a few weeks ago. He's 72 years old and on annual extensions based on an O-A Visa. He couldn't afford the insurance,and didn't want to start all over with a new Visa and instead went to an agent in Pattaya. I don't know how much he paid, but it worked out. I just wanted to mention it, because this is an option for you,too.
      Reply

      • Bubba says

        Be careful if you choose this route. If you do this, you can get in hot water! If you use an agent, the agent may get your visa in a district other than where you live. If you apply yourself, the next time, in the district you should be in, the Immigration Department has every right to deny you a visa. This is happening already at Lak Si.
        Reply

        • Max says

          My comment was about an agent in Pattaya and Pattaya only and my friends application wasn't rejected. People that are 70 years old or older can't always cope with the trip to a neighbouring country to start all over again with a new type of visa to get rid of the O-A. There are only two options and I have explained how to do it. The third option is leaving Thailand. If you have a fourth option,please tell me.
          Reply

  65. doc says

    Just tried to do my 1-year retirement extension in Thailand today Jan 2020 using a foreign deposit account (FDC)
    Had to put money into the account to update book first. but you have to pay money in with UK pounds and get charged a 1% fee with a minim fee of 500baht = £12.70
    And still had to pay 100 baht for the letter also took about 30 mins not including the wait
    Also, the rules seem to state you have to do this every 90 day for the report???
    This is a lot of hassle and expensive. you may be best to just put the funds needed in a Thai bank in Thai Bahts
    Reply

    • Max says

      You wrote "tried" to do your 1 retirement extension. Did you succeed?
      In my opinion having the money in a Fixed Deposit Account is cheaper,smoother and with a much better interest rate than in a savings account. At Bangkok Bank (maybe even at Kasikorn Bank), you can update the bank book in their update machines without the need to deposit any money.
      What Immigration office do you belong to? You don't need to show the money in the bank every 90 days. At a few offices you show the 800k 90 days after the extension. Just once. The 90 days report has nothing to do with the money in the bank.
      Reply

      • Doc says

        Have to now go Pattaya immigration on Monday now as the electric was off. Hope bank letter will be OK. Fdc they can't update book in machine and only done in fcd banks. So will have to go through same route in 90 days I reckon... Kassikone Bank
        Reply

        • Max says

          Jomtien Immigration will give you a paper showing the date (90 days after the extension) for the so called "90 days check". They just want to see you still have the 800k in the bank. It also says what documents you need to provide. When I did it last year immigration wanted 2 copies from the bank book and 2 copies from the passport. Signed at the bottom in blue ink.
          Reply

  66. FRANK says

    I have a retirement VISA (with 800 K THB bank deposit), live less than 6 months in Thailand and receive my monthly pension on my bankaccount in Europe. Should I pay taxes in Thailand ? Second question: Should I pay taxes on my pension if I would live 12 months in Thailand ? Thank you in advance for your kind comments.
    Reply

    • Max says

      No taxes for the money in the bank in Thailand,except for the 15% you pay to the bank for the interest you receive twice a year.
      Most of the western countries have a so called Double Tax Agreement,DTA with Thailand. With a DTA you don't have to pay taxes on your pension in both countries,just in the country where you earned your pension.
      Reply

  67. Bryan S says

    Looking to enter Thailand and leave with a non-immigrant A-O visa. You recommend entering with a 90-day Non-Immigrant O visa but here in the US that visa seems to be reserved only for visiting family or volunteer work. Can it be obtained from a Thai Embassy in the US for a single guy with no contacts in Thailand? That doesn't seem clear in the requirements.

    Is my best option to enter with a 60 day tourist visa, open the bank account and deposit the 800,00 baht right away, extend for 30 more days, get my Thai health insurance, and then apply for the A-O visa after the money has been in the bank 60 days? Would I still need to upgrade to O visa before A-O? If so can I apply for that soon after entry?
    Reply

    • Max says

      Apply for a 60 days tourist visa in the US. After 30 days you can convert that visa to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement at the local immigration office. The cost is 2000 baht. After 60 days you can apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement. The cost is 1900 baht. You don't need a health insurance. That's only for the O-A Visa. You need 800k baht in a Thai bank when applying for the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa, and same amount 2 months in the bank before applying for the 1 year extension. After ~11 months you can apply for another 1 year extension,and so on.
      Reply

    • James E says

      Right. There is no plain-vanilla O available in the US. If I were you I'd look at getting the O-A in the US (it allows you to use your US finances to meet the requirement but puts you on the hook for the "medical" statement and background check) That will give you a full year in Thailand to get everything set up for your eventual extension. The way you suggest will also work but check through the comments for recent direct experiences.
      Reply

      • Max says

        Not a very good advice when he needs a very expensive health insurance,a medical check + police record check. Converting a tourist visa to a Non-immigrant O + a 1 year extension is both smarter and cheaper in the long run.
        Reply

          • Max says

            I replied to Bryan S's post and his post only. It's quite obvious that he hasn't got a clue that the Non-immigrant O Visa exists. So,please tell me why he should go for an O-A Visa when he is required to buy a very expensive and in some ways useless health insurance together with a medical check and the police record check. Then he has to pay for an insurance every year when extending his stay.
            Reply

        • James E says

          There's only one reason, Max and that is to be able to use his US finances as the basis for his visa. The medical check is a form you just take to your doctor and costs nothing other than waiting for the doctor to stop laughing. The police report costs $20 and takes two weeks. He may *want* health insurance as the crap we get in the US is pretty much worthless overseas. Managed properly he could get an O-A, live 50 weeks a year in Thailand, and stay on an O-A without ever having to put a dollar in a Thai bank. BTW, the plain non-Imm O is heading the way of the dinosaur. It's been unavailable in the US for years and is now no longer offered in the UK. It'll just be a matter of time before it won't be available in Thailand either.
          Reply

    • Bubba says

      As the Immigration rules have changed so much, I suggest you deal with the Thai consulate in Los Angeles. They are amiable and much easier to deal with than the Thai Embassy in Washington. The visa you need is dependent on your age, your finances and what you intend to do when you arrive. The consul will assist you in determining the best way to get the correct visa.
      Reply

    • Bryan S says

      Thanks everyone for your feedback. It think it verified some things about the O-visa and the AO-visa. So obtaining inside Thailand the O-visa will serve me the same as an AO acquired here in the US, can be extended year after year provided I continue to meet the financial requirements. From other research, reading posts, and my personal situation I feel my best option is Max's advice to enter with a 60 day Tourist visa and the convert to O-visa inside Thailand thereby skipping the need to get the medical and background docs together here in time. It sounds like this route will also save me the need to buy health insurance in Thailand (for now). I would rather set up my own monthly saving fund for future medical costs anyway. I I just have two questions on the timeline of getting my extended stay visa this way. 1) Do I have enough time in 90 days to accomplish getting my tourist visa changed to an O-visa (no need to ask for a 30 day extension on the Tourist visa, right?) and then the extension of stay approved. I understood Max to say that I can't make the first visa change until 30 days in and then another 30 before I can ask for the one year extension. Is this correct? Do the first 30 days count as part of my new 90 day O-visa or does the clock start over at that point? 2) Second question is about having the 800,00 BHT in a Thai bank. Unless I get a new 90 days upon approval of the O-visa I might have a problem. If I can open an account in the first few days and get funds transferred within a week I should be OK either way. However, I have read that many banks won't let a foreigner open an account on a tourist visa. So if I have to wait until I get the O-visa (30 days after arrival) and then fund the bank account and my exit date is 90 days from original entry I won't meet the 60 days in the bank required for the extension of stay before my 90 days are up. Is there a way to get a bank to allow me to open and fund an account while holding the Tourist visa? I was thinking of putting the funds in the Bank of Bangkok New York branch before I leave and then asking the local branch to accept a transfer of that to open an account. It will cost on both ends I'm sure but it might make things smoother at the Thai branch. Also need to know if I will have 90 days in Thailand from arrival or actually 120 days (30 + a new 90 with issuance of the O-visa). My trip is planned for mid March but I do need to return to the US to tie up things before I plan to return permanently around next October. So knowing my length of stay options going in would help. Thanks, I hope this reads clear
      Reply

      • James E says

        Max is probably weighing in on this right now. Read TTL's guide to opening a bank account if you haven't. People's experiences are all over the place. I opened mine on an exempt stamp at BKK Bank at Siam Paragon with no real problems. My Thai partner came with me to sign a statement saying her address is the address I live at. But prior to that, at SCB - the bank her family has been with for generations - they wouldn't even talk with us. It just depends. If you don't have Thai friends or family you'll need a rental contract at the very minimum. If you're going back to the States you have another option that might make sense which is to get a multi-entry tourist visa. When you arrive in March you'll be stamped in for 60 days, when that's running out you can get a 30 day extension. That should give you time to get your bank account set up and funded without rushing around like a lunatic which you do not want to be doing in March. Then you can leave (or do a border run) and you'll get another 60 days (+30) extension to make permanent arrangements. DO NOT use the BKK branch in NYC you get hit with transfer fees AND they have an obscene buy-sell spread you'll have to pay. Look at TTL's Transferwise post and read all the comments. BTW - I'm in BKK the last couple weeks of March and the beginning of April. If you want a contact on the ground over there send TTL a msg through the "Contact" form and have him send me your email.
        Reply

        • Bryan S says

          Thanks James, I checked the transfer rates at BKK NYC and you're right. It's way more than any other service. I'm going down to Pattaya upon arrival (tentative for March 17th) but might stay overnight first. If you're in BBK then it would be great to make contact, if that's not to early for you. I'll keep you posted. So if I try to upgrade the tourist visa to the O-visa in Thailand when would the 90 days of the O-visa start? would the time already spent in country count or would I get a new 90 days starting with the change date? This would be very good to know before I even apply for my visa here in the US
          Reply

      • Max says

        Where will you be staying in Thailand? You have to do the conversion from the tourist visa to the 90 days Non-immigrant O visa and the following 1 year extension at the same immigration office. Your only concern in my opinion,is the opening of the thai bank account.
        You can't use Bangkok Bank NY branch anymore for transferring money to a BB thai branch. That option died last year. Opening a savings account at a BB branch using a tourist visa is actually possible, BUT, it depends on the branch. Many branches live by their own rules. Do you have a place to stay in Thailand with a rental contract? If you have, you can get a Certificate of Residence from the local immigration office. The cost is from 0 to 300-500 baht. That's normally what a BB branch wants, or a letter from your embassy/consulate in Thailand. If you visit Bangkok Banks website (it's in english), you can see the requirements for a savings account. At my BB branch in Jomtien,Pattaya, the Certificate of Residence is like an "open Sesame" when opening an account,other branches wants the letter from an embassy. You need the 800k in the bank when doing the conversion 30 days later,so getting the account as fast as possible is crucial. But you can also extend your 60 days Visa another 30 days at the local immigration office for 1900 baht if you need extra time. Other than BB you've got Kasikorn Bank, and again,it depends on the branch if they allow you to open an account. Use the 800k you're about to transfer (or more) as leverage at the branch incl a few please. That might help. When you've got your account and the money is transferred from the US, (it must be a foreign transfer), then you're home free. When doing the conversion from tourist Visa to 90 days Non-immigrant O, you'll need a bank letter (they also call it a bank guarantee) from your bank to prove you've got the 800k and that the transfer was international. It cost 100-200 baht depending on bank. Now you wait 60 days and then back again to immigration with almost same papers as you needed for the conversion + another bank letter. Your at least 800k MUST be in the bank 2 months before the application for the 1 year extension.
        Reply

        • Bryan S says

          Thanks Max, good to know that the O-visa time will be added to the original 60 days from the tourist visa. As I thought, getting a bank account opened and funded as soon as possible will be critical to accomplishing all this in 3-4 months. Sounds like getting a place to stay ahead of time might be my next step. I'm settling in Pattaya and in fact Jomtien is the area I'm looking at for renting a condo long term. It's been 25 years since I've been to Pattaya but it seems Jomtien is still a nice "off the path" area but easy to get back and forth to other parts of the city. Would you advise booking a condo there for a few weeks ahead of arrival? I'm arriving in mid March so it sounds like I should get a longer rental contract quickly (know any good deals?) Let's talk more about housing, initial and long term. Love to hear a Jomtien resident's view on this. Your same bank branch there to set up an account might then be my best bet. How long of a rental contract will the bank require? I do want to try to accomplish my long stay visa goal and still return to the US by July as I have some commitments here to tie up before the permanent move around October. Are you going to be in Pattaya in March - June? So on the timeline front let's see if I got this straight. Minimum time from entry to obtaining and O-visa with 1 year extension. 30 days before I can apply for the O-visa or can I apply earlier provided my bank account is up and funded? No set time after that to ask for the extension other than the money has been in the bank for 60 days? In other words, is there a set waiting time period between steps or is it just as soon as I meet the requirements along the way? If so, and everything falls in place, sounds like I can have a long stay visa in hand with a permit to re-enter in 75-80 days. Add a couple of weeks to celebrate and confirm my fight home and I'm looking right at 3 months (my original plan). I'll have to change my original return fight before day 52-54 but by then I should have the 90 extra days (or as last resort the 30 day extension on the tourist visa).
          Do have this all correct?
          Reply

          • Max says

            You can't convert your 60 days tourist visa earlier than 30 days before it expires. If/when you get the Non-immigrant O Visa,you must apply for the 1 year extension after 60 days. The problem as I see it will be where to stay and get a long term contract. You can't just waltz into Bangkok Bank in Jomtien without a Certificate of Residence from immigration or a letter from your embassy without a place to stay. Even the conversion to the Non-immigrant O Visa requires a contract. That gives you only 30 days (60 days with a 30 days extension) to find a condo you like and open a bank account. Jomtien is quite big nowadays, not same as in 1994. It's not possible to walk around and check for a condo. You have to go online. Try this for starters:

            https://m.pattayacondoguide.com/
            Reply

            • Bryan S says

              Thanks, so on the visa conversion 30 days before the first step but when you say 60 days to apply for the extension is that 60 more after the conversion or 60 days from entry? Or just 60 days after the money is in the bank (somewhere in between)? I get your urgency about getting the account funded and thus the need to get a rental contract ASAP. I'll definitely book something online before I arrive. Big question now is how long of a contract do you think the Bank of Bangkok will require? Three, six months, or a full year will make a difference in my condo choice and budget since it will probably sit empty between August and November. Hadn't planned about the need for a full year contract on my first visit although the convenience of having a place to return to offsets the extra monthly expense. I can live with that. Also, if I lease for a year do you think it's safe to leave some personal items in the condo while I'm gone for 3-4 months?
              Reply

              • Max says

                30 days after entry you can convert your tourist visa into the 90 days Non-immigrant O. Or,if you need more time, you can extend your visa (stay) 30 days. Then you have 60 days until the conversion. When you've got the 90 days Non-immigrant O,in your passport you'll see the stamp, it's like another entry stamp and there's also a stamp showing the expiring date. 30 days before the visa expires you can apply for the 1 year extension.
                Either you have 60 + 60 days after entry in Thailand until the application for the 1 year extension,or 90 + 60 days if you need to extend your tourist visa another 30 days. Just count from the day you entered Thailand. The money have to be in the bank when you do the conversion. The first 30 days (or 60 days if you extend the tourist visa),is the window you have to find a condo through a real estate agent, get the contract and then open the account and get the money transferred from the US. 30 days can be tight,but 60 days makes it a lot easier,less stress. You'll need to show a contract for the conversion, but also when you apply for the 1 year extension. So, a 3 months contract won't suffice, right? That just covers the 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa. It's easier and cheaper to rent long term = 1 year. I don't know how big condo you want/need and your budget,and where in Jomtien you want to stay. You can try to find a small cheaper condo for the 1st year, and if needed upgrade when you're back. Leaving stuff while away is normally no problem,you don't need to mention it to everybody,though. Nowadays they have security and CCTV cams.
                Reply

                • Bryan S says

                  Thanks Max, I'm now clear on the length of time it will take. I'm planning a stay of 4+ to 6 months to get it done. I booked a guesthouse for the first few nights and have been in touch with a few agents about a condo long term and maybe more short term lodging until I find one. Been trying to get a lay of the land online about Jomtien but one can't really get a sense of "neighborhood" until you have boots on the ground. Any suggestion on transportation from BBK airport to the Jomtien guest house? The guesthouse says they provide it but have not responded with details other than it is $60 per vehicle so it would be nice to have a backup plan. Also, where is the bank branch located that accepted the Certificate of Occupancy to open an account?
                  Reply

                • Bryan S says

                  I wanted to ask about my return arrangements to the US and subsequent return to Thailand permanently. I am obviously going to have to change my return ticket date (May 16th) sometime after I arrive in March but I really won't know exactly when I'm good to return at the time I need to change it. If I leave Thailand with an O-Visa with 1 year extension AND a permit to return am I allowed to return with a one way ticket? Is a round trip from Thailand and back allowed with these credentials in place? Any restrictions / issues you know of with these options? Option A would be best Just wondering if I should just let my original return ticket go or still try to use it. With the change fees and other charges it's about the same as a one way ticket price
                  Reply

                  • Bubba says

                    That question is really unanswerable. First, the airline you fly on may require you to have a round-trip or onward ticket before it allows you to board its flight. Then when you arrive in Thailand the Immigration officer can choose to either permit or deny you entry at the border, even if you have a visa. Permission to enter is solely at the discretion of the Immigration officier!
                    Reply

                    • Max says

                      The one way ticket is not a problem for the airline. When applying for a 60 days tourist visa, one of the requirements are a copy of the booked ticket with both departure date and return date. So, a return ticket is required.

                    • Bryan S says

                      Hello again, it's been over a month since I last posted. I want to thank everyone for their input on making the transition to Thailand. My flight is in 10 days and still confirmed as of today.
                      I have a couple of new questions. First is about security deposits for a one year leases on condos. I've read everything from one months rent to up to three months rent. What is the norm in Jomtien? Are they good about returning your deposit (providing no damage to the unit) at the end of the lease? Read varying opinions about this as well. Second question is about Covid-19. I've been tracking it for Thailand but most news reports are generic. Any new restrictions in place regarding visa extensions or entry? I understand business is way down. How is that affecting daily life in Pattaya? I haven't seen anything about Pattaya having confirmed cases as of now. Is that true? Any update is appreciated.

                    • James E says

                      Brian S, We're leaving in 12 days so have some similar concerns. First question, do you subscribe or read the web-version of the BKK Post? There are lots of good updates there. Second, the big concern with flying is where your enroute stop is. Thailand announced in the past couple of days that arrivals from South Korea, China, Macau, Hong Kong, Italy and Iran would be required to go through a 14 day self-quarantine with daily reporting to the authorities. While the article doesn't address if transit passengers would be affected I'm guessing the answer will be yes as Thailand seems to be erring on the safe side. The article is at: https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1873174/quarantine-recommended-but-enforcement-unclear As with all things Thai, there is some uncertainty. If you don't transit through one of those places you should be okay.

                  • Max says

                    1 or 2 months deposit is normal. I've never heard about 3 months,and I think that's against the law. Getting the money back when moving out depends on the owner. I have heard about people having problems with Thai owners,but it's not that common. Regarding the Coronavirus,there are no restrictions when coming from the US and there are no reported cases in Pattaya/Jomtien. It's been quite busy in Pattaya/Jomtien January and February despite articles about the Coronavirus in newspapers and online.
                    It's actually quite relaxed here compared to BKK and some other places. Some people wear masks,but not that many. The low season has started now and there are less tourists here compared to just a couple of weeks ago, but that's normal.
                    Reply

                    • Chris says

                      If you are concerned about the Covid virus, don't travel. You have to accept the fact that you can be exposed to the virus, either enroute or here. I wear a mask here in Bangkok, but only when the air quality is bad. Interestingly enough, I went shopping yesterday in Tesco and the stock of facial tissues was decimated. The same for consumables. That could be hoarding based upon the virus or the pending sale of Tesco..

  70. Mal haq says

    trying to get a non O visa from the uk for the purpose of extending to a retirement visa once in Thailand is not a option on the Evisa site that uk and usa must now use. it says O visa for family in Thailand or for medical and for lots of other things but not for a single person coming alone just to retire, and if you click and any of the links it still will only give you the option of a O-A visa for retirement and must show all the stuff that goes with a retirement visa, I have email thai embassy and Evisa but they still refuse to answer. it is on the embassy website that the O visa is still available just show 10 grand in bank account for 3 month but there is no option to apply for it
    Reply

    • James E says

      eVisa is still not available in the US but I'm sure it's heading that way. The plain Non-O hasn't been available in the US for years, if ever. We're stuck with the O-A. You could always try going in on a tourist visa and get it changed to an O once you get there. I think the whole eVisa thing portends a standardization of visas across all countries.
      Reply

    • Max says

      I just logged in to the e-visa website, and I choosed London with a UK passport. The option for the 90 days Non-Immigrant O based on retirement is still available. It's the last option way down in the list before the SMART visas.
      Reply

      • James E says

        I just checked as well. But... It's not called an O visa until you click on it and go to the next page. The title is with "Retirement (Pensioner aged 50 and above with a state pension who wish to stay in Thailand for no more than 90 days)". I think this 90 days thing is the confusing part. Max, how does one migrate from this visa to a long-stay?
        Reply

        • Max says

          You start with the 90 days Non-Immigrant O,then after 60 days you extend it 1 year at the local immigration office. Cost 1900 baht. But, when applying for the 1 year extension, you need to meet the financial requirements = 800k in a thai bank 2 months before applying or show an income/pension of at least 65k monthly. You can't get an income letter anymore from the UK embassy,so you'll need bank letters and statements showing the transfers from a thai bank. IF having the money, the 800k method is the easiest way.
          Reply

  72. Khunang says

    @alfie You loose your permission to stay as soon as you withdraw below 400k. Then you're on and be punishable for Overstay as long as you remain in Thailand, free walking or in prison.
    (400k deposit in an official Thai bank is your money. Withdrawal at your will and following your bank regulations.)
    Reply

    • Max says

      The O-A Long Stay (1 year) retirement Visa is only obtainable in your home country. From October 31 you also need a health insurance.
      The 90 days Non-Immigrant O is extendable 1 year after 60 days at the local immigration office. Cost 1900 baht. Then you can extend it every year. No insurance needed.
      Reply

      • Bubba says

        You only need health insurance if it is available. Once I reached 70, I was unable to find any insurers that would cover me. That did not preclude immigration from issuing me a visa. Many of the comments on this site are just that.. comments only and should not be taken as edicts!
        Reply

        • Max says

          If you got an O-A Visa after October 31 you will need an insurance,and also when applying for an extension based on an O-A Visa. It doesn't matter if you are 70+ and can't get an insurance. No insurance,no Visa. That's a fact. I don't know where you got your information,but it's wrong.
          Reply

          • Bubba says

            The US Embassy sent out a bulletin on the new requirements. An insurance policy in Thailand for a 70 year old costs double what Medicare coverage does in the USA. Combine that with the 800,000 baht capital requirements and it is time to start looking at other more hospitable countries to live in.
            Reply

              • Bubba says

                Changing to a 90 day visa with all of the requirements is insanity. Malaysia has about the same financial requirements for retirees and will waive health insurance requirements if you are over 59 years of age. India, Vietnam, Indonesia and other countries may find themselves with a growing list of former Thailand retirees!
                Reply

                • Max says

                  The financial requirements are the same for the 1 year extension based on retirement and the 1 year extension based on an O-A Visa. If you can't get an insurance or can't afford it, it might work with a US insurance if you can get it certified the proper way.
                  Reply

          • Max says

            The problem with health insurances for old people 70+ is the very high price for a very low coverage. 400k coverage is the minimum requirement from Immigration and totally useless if getting real sick and staying in a private hospital. It's barely enough at a government hospital.If you want a higher coverage,let's say ~800k or more, the cost/year will skyrocket. On top of that, the cost/year will increase when getting older.
            Reply

    • James E says

      You're right. The only difference is that the O-A (and O- X) have a 90-day reporting requirement but no requirement to do a border run. That said, you can apply for extensions and re-entry permits in-country to avoid some of the hassles and make each stay a bit longer. Also note that what you get depends a lot on where you are coming from. For example, in the US there is no plain vanilla non-Imm O visa whereas those can be obtained at many other places around the world which limits your choices a bit. Max has got a number of good comments on working through some of these questions have a look at those.
      Reply

  74. Abdu Basi says

    Besides the financial requirements I have heard that one is also required to carry medical Insurance. Where can I find information on that like minimum required coverage etc. I believe 70+ may not be able to obtain health insurance what are there options.
    The link on this site takes me to Cigna in UK which seems to be very expensive. Can any one suggest a different insurance company.
    Reply

  75. Abdu Basi says

    I will be coming from U.S, do we I have to deposit 800,000 in the bank every year or can I deposit that amount once and not touch it again while I am in Thailand. To cover living expenses can I use a separate account and move money into it as needed from my US bank.
    Reply

    • Max says

      You must transfer at least 800k baht, but just once. You need the money in the bank 2 months before applying for the 1 year extension based on retirement. Then you officially need the 800k to stay in the bank 3 months after. After that you can't go below 400k until next 1 year extension + you need to top it up again to >800k. You can keep the money (all of it) in a Fixed Deposit Account for a better interest rate,but not touch it because you will lose interest. Then you can open a savings account for your daily expenses and you can transfer money from the US monthly. You can also keep all of your money in a savings account,that's up to you.
      Reply

    • James E says

      If by "30 days option" you mean the visa waiver program then that won't work more than a few times before immigration will deny you entry. Additionally, you may be restricted to 15 days on a land crossing which varies by country of origin. There are no such restrictions (other than raising the suspicions of Thai immigration) if you do all this by air but that would get really expensive doing a run every 30 days.
      Reply

      • Max says

        Why is the verification of monthly income impossible? There are a lot of US citizens in Thailand using the >65k monthly method. Several are transferring the money using TransferWise, and if you for example bank with Bangkok Bank they will issue both the bank letter and bank statements.
        Reply

    • Max says

      If you're using the >800k in the bank method, you can not go below 400k after 3 months after applying for the extension,until 2 months before next extension when you have to top it up to 800k again. It has nothing to do with the >65k monthly method. They are just 2 different methods.
      Reply

      • Bubba says

        There is no definitive answer to that on the Thai Immigration website. I transferred 200,000 baht 4 times last year to save on wire fees and it took a "committee" of 6 immigration and a supervisor to agree that I should get my OA visa renewed. Just keep smiling and prepare for a lot of difficulty.
        Reply

      • Max says

        You're talking about the combination method. It's normally used when you don't have the 65k monthly income. Let's say you have 50k monthly, that's 600k in a year. Then you need at least 200k in the bank to reach 800k. BUT, every immigration office doesn't allow this method even if it's officially ok. In Jomtien, Pattaya it's ok. Just an example.
        Reply

    • philip robinson says

      my retirement visa expires in Dec 2019 and i will be aplying for extension using the 800,000baht deposited in a thai bank. however next year i intend obtaining my visa extension by the 65,000baht month income method by August 2020 i will have had 12 months of showing my income going into a thai bank. my question to you can i alter my retirement visa date to bring forward to Aug 2020 from Dec 2020 as i wish to have access to all of my capital as soon as possible and as i understand no lump sums tied up in a bank are required if you use the 65,000baht a month income method. thanking you for help
      Reply

      • Max says

        If you extend your stay 1 year from December 2019 using the 800k in the bank, your officially not allowed to go below 400k until next extension. Normally you would top it up again to 800k 2 months before next application. In my opinion you must keep 400k in your account,and then about 1 month before the expiration date use your income/pension for next extension.
        Reply

        • philip Robinson says

          thanks for your help based on what you say i will apply for the extension about a month before expiration date using the 65000baht a month income method as being able to spend up to 400000baht this should be ok to see me ok during the 2020 to 2021 year everything else sounds a bit vague but thanks for all the help and advice. Philip Robinson
          Reply

      • James E says

        You can also consider switching visa types to remove the financial requirements. Then, when you're at a point where you have the 65k+deposit level combo you want get a new retirement visa. There are a few ways to work it out. If you can already document the 65k then you can combine that with a smaller deposit. I don't think you can move the date forward but I could be wrong.
        Reply

        • Max says

          From 2020 he needs 12 transfers to meet the requirements for the 65k monthly method. He reach 12 months in August next year. I dont think (I'm not sure) he can use the combination method for next extension in December this year. But if he stays with the 800k in the bank method and keep the 800k for 3 months after the extension starts (that's a must), then he can free up 400k. That's better than nothing,and then use 65k monthly next year in December and he can do whatever he wants with the money. I would still keep at least 400k in the bank.
          Reply

          • James E says

            Right. That's what made me think of an interim visa. Say a visa exemption entry followed by a tourist visa with an extension followed by another. (Not sure what the optimum mix would be...) All the while he's booking the 65k/mo. Then in August convert a tourist visa to the O based on income.
            Reply

              • James E says

                Wisdom is something I've rarely been accused of. But given your lack of any further practical input I'm sticking with it. There are many ways to play the visa game. My suggestion is something that would be completely plausible if the foreigner were under 50 and wanting to "long-stay" without a long stay visa. 1) It keeps Philip in Thailand, 2) it removes the 800K requirement immediately, and 3) allows him to tailor his "temporary" visa expiration in line with meeting his target of August 2020 for the income history.
                Reply

  78. Sa dra says

    My husband and I have lived here 19 years and had a retirement visa since they began them. My husband is elderly and last year he was hospitalized several times and had several accidents and I was misinformed about the money having to be in a local bank and told you could show your bank statements as before. Wrong. At same time I realized my husband 's passport only had a week before expiration
    I nearly died on the spot but was able to get new one in one week and pay a fine but told to leave the country to go to Thai Consulate in Vientian. We booked and left right away only to get here to Vientiane and go to Thai Consulate where I first had to get an account with their system and a code to then make 2 separate appointments with no way of knowing WHEN. Been here a week and no appt and must leave tomorrow. Consulate says Must noe have police report from Bangkok. And medical report. Never told this by immigration and they provided a list of requirements.I have no idea what to do next. Been to CM Immigration 4 Times and to Chiang Rai Immigration who sent us to Mae Said Immigration who said they do not do piggyback as we have in the past and my husband would have to leave the country and come back with non immigrant O. They told me i woulf need to do that in Thailand. I have no idea what will happen at the airport tomorrow. Any advise.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi, yes unfortunately the Vientiane consulate now requires appointments and you have to book in advance as they fill up fast.You will need to leave the country and come back with a Non Immigrant O visa. Your husband will then have to do the retirement visa extension again with the new visa. You could then be a dependent on that visa. Note that for you to be a dependent the 800k in a Thai bank account (for 60 days) must be in your husband's account.Has the money been in your husband's account for 60 days+? If not, you will also need to get a Non Immigrant O visa, or a tourist visa, because once you return to Thailand you will have to wait 60 days before doing the extension. If the money has been there for 60 days+ your husband can do the extension immediately.
      Reply

  79. Alex says

    In England you cannot get the retirement visa at all as of june 2019.
    This has caused me problems big time. for two weeks I tried the thai embassy
    in London. It seems they have a policy of not answering the phone.
    I did find out that you apply on line to Bangkok. Sounded simple enough but that was about all. Turns out its not policy to respond to your emails so they will only come back mailer demone.
    I have family in Thailand and was in the process of getting rid of everything
    in England. It has been dawning on me that everything is turning to dust.
    I have been coming here for 11 years, What happened?. I am now in a real mess.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi Alex, where does it say they don't do the O-A visa anymore. I couldn't see that on the website. Either way, it might be easier to follow the advice in this post and get the Non Immigrant O Visa (single entry - 90 days) and then do the extension based on retirement in Thailand.The website says the following:In Person From 15 June 2019, visa applicants in the UK and Ireland have to apply online. In order to access online visa application, please go to https://thaievisa.go.th/Home Applicants are required to set up an account and submit visa applications, then book an appointment to submit their passports and visa applications in person at the Embassy.By Post: From 15 June 2019, visa applicants in the UK and Ireland have to apply online. In order to access online visa application, please go to https://thaievisa.go.th/Home Applicants are required to set up an account and submit visa application online, and print out the completed visa application with bar code and submit it with your passport to the Embassy by post. 14 June 2019 will be the last day the Embassy will process visa application by post, submitted with the old visa application forms. Any old visa applications received after 14 June 2019 will be returned to the applicants.
      Reply

      • Gary says

        I second your suggestion for a 90 day " in country" route as at least Alex will be her with his family while getting things sorted. I took the "in country " route last October and apart from a day spent at Bangkok Immigration filling in paperwork it was pretty straight forward and stress free. As long as Alex has a Thai bank set up already and the funds can be deposited it meet the required time constraints then I think it cuts out all the worry of being in the UK and wanting to be here . I would go for the O visa to get here and convert it once here.
        Reply

  80. Bill M. says

    I am coming to Pattaya in 2 weeks. I have been in contact with an agency to help me obtain a retirement visa upon arrival in Pattaya. I was quoted 32,000 Baht for all of their services. That seems excessive. I understand there is a fee for them doing the work but that is rather large. I am a US citizen with >800K Bhat in a US bank and >65k Baht/mo income. I do not have a Thai bank account as I was not allowed to open one in the US. I plan to stay for 7 months. Any advice would be helpful.

    Bill
    Reply

    • Max says

      Bill, 32000 Baht is very expensive. Why didn't you ask this a bit earler? 2 weeks is a short time.
      What kind of visa will you arrive on? 60 days Tourist or 30 Visa exempt?
      If you arrive on a 60 days Tourist Visa,that visa can be converted to a 90 days Non-Immigrant O based on retirement at the local Immigration Office. After 60 days you can apply for a 1 year extension. But your problem will probably be the opening of an account in a thai bank.
      Reply

    • James E says

      Max is right. If you are coming in on a 30 day exempt you are going to be pressed for time. Everything in Thailand takes much longer than you think. If you are close to NYC, DC, or LA you can get an O-A issued directly but you might not have enough time to pull together the supporting docs like the background check and medical assurances. You could also get a 60-day Tourist Visa quickly. If you don't already have a visa I think your best bet is to get over the jet lag and do a visa run to get a 90 day non-imm O and then you can take your time arranging your finances and getting that sorted out. I'd stay away from "agents" until you have some experience on the ground. You arrive with a target painted on your back and you will find all sorts of helpful people who will take advantage of you. 32kBaht is insane and, other than them filling out a couple of forms, you'll still have to do all the work.
      Reply

  81. VegasGuy says

    Hello -- I'm a US citizen nearing age 50 and looking into the Thailand O-A retirement visa. I think I understand all the requirements (financial, etc.), but I'm still a bit confused as to the best way to obtain the visa. It seems as though getting a 90-day O visa is not offered in the US. Thus, I think my best option is to come in on a 30-day visa (waiver), establish an address and bank account, then start the O-visa process. From there then I'd apply for the O-A visa 1-year extension after I get the O-visa in Thailand. Seems like it would be best to use an agent rather than do all of this on my own. My other option would be to apply for the O-A visa here in the US, but that seems quite complicated. Am I thinking about this right? Thanks for everyone's help.
    Reply

    • Bubba says

      Having done it in the US and now having to do it here in Thailand, my advice is to do it in the US at the Los Angeles consulate. You can do it by mail. The consulate is extremely accommodating. The forms are not that difficult and you will not have the language barrier to deal with. When you renew here in Thailand you will fully appreciate how easy the process is to do in the USA. Just check out the consulate's website.
      Reply

    • James E says

      Your best bet (IMO) is to get your O-A from the Thai Embassy in the US. This has two downsides: 1) you'll have to get the letter from law enforcement saying you're not a criminal. I'm in WA and the letter cost about $20 from the state bureau of investigation (You can use the FBI but it takes longer). And 2) Your doctor will look at you funny when you hand them the health certification form asking about all these 19th Century diseases. The plus side is that you can use your US assets to meet the financial requirements. Then, with visa in hand you can take your time once in TLOS and find a bank and get that all set up. In general (again IMO) you'll be better off not using an agent for anything in Thailand. You need to learn the ropes and handing off responsibility to someone else is opening the doors to all kinds of issues.
      Reply

  82. Steep says

    Having spoken with an agent in Thailand (Pattaya) they advised that I come to them as soon as possible after my entry into Thailand (on a 30 day visa waiver) to begin the process of obtaining a retirement visa.
    I was planning to spend two nights in Bangkok upon arriving before moving on to Pattaya. Would two nights delay make any difference to my application?
    Reply

    • Max says

      If you're doing the conversion from a 30 visa exempt to a Non-Immigrant O in Jomtien,they want the procedure to start almost immediately. That's because CW Immigration in BKK has the final word when it comes to conversions from 30 days visa exempts and 60 days TR Visa to Non-immigrant O Visa. If 2 days matters,who knows? You're probably paying the agent a nice sum,so I guess he can sort it out. If 2 days matters,you can always apply for a 30 days extension,and then apply for the conversion.
      Reply

    • James E says

      They want you to come as soon as possible because otherwise you're gonna find out how easy it is to do without an agent. It takes at *least* 90 days to get your visa since you have to get all your financial requirements in order and have your 800K in the bank for 3 months. If you live someplace where you can get an O-A from your local Thai embassy you can use your existing accounts to meet the financial qualifications then once you're in TLOS you can take up to a year to get your finances in order.
      Reply

  83. Max says

    There are a few errors in the otherwise very informative explanation for the 1 year extension based on retirement.

    The new requirements when having >800k in a Thai bank: From March 1 2019 you need the money in the account for 2 months before applying. Same with next extension and third and so on. NOT 3 months before. 2 months for every extension. Then also 3 months after the application. They also require a so called 90 days check to see that you still have >800k in the account.

    The interest rate for a Savings Account is not 0%. You get 0.5% at Bangkok Bank and at several other banks.

    It's also possible to open a Fixed Deposit Account,FDA. The interest is about 1.5% for 12 months at Bangkok Bank. Higher rate for 24 months and so on.

    The Australian Embassy also stopped issuing the income letter January 1, 2019 together with the UK and US Embassies.

    Other embassies still issues them same as before.

    If you don't have an income letter you need >65k monthly. The transfers "HAVE TO BE INTERNATIONAL" and the Thai bank will issue a bank letter stating this. You also need copies of the bankbook and "EVERY" transfer has to be a foreign transfer. This is at the moment very important. It might change when Immigration learns how foreign transfers really work.
    Reply

      • Max says

        Sorry,check what you wrote. You wrote 2 months before applying for the first extension,and 3 months before for the next extension from March 1.
        It's 2+3 months for every extension from March 1. I have seen the official police order from Immigration, and I did my last extension in May according to the new rules.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          My information was taken from the press release at the time sent to me by immigration. I wrote that the 800k must be there 2 months (60 days) before the extension and remain there for 3 months after the extension. 400k must remain throughout the duration of the visa.This correlates with statements by various officials. Here's one:“Under the new rules, the B800,000 must be in the account at least two months before applying for the visa (permit to stay) and must remain in the account for at least three months after the visa has been issued,” Col Acheep said.“After three months the foreigner can start withdrawing from the account, but under the new rules the balance in the account must not go below B400,000 at any time throughout the year,” Col Acheep explained.Thanks
          Reply

      • Steve Holt says

        My yearly multi entry right to remain expires on 31 October and l can't get back to Thailand from UK until early October. Do l have to make sure that an entry stamp for 31 October is still given, or can l be ok with a 30 day stamp on entry, which would take me over the yearly visa date ? I don't want to do anything to affect my renewal on return. Thanks.
        Reply

  84. Shanti says

    Hello - can you open a Thai Bank account if entering the country on a Non Immigrant O Visa? I note that this visa is a stepping stone to retirement visa, which requires you to have a deposit of money in a Thai bank account.
    Thanks
    Reply

  85. Tron says

    Recently I've seen posts about doing a border run near the end of my 'home-country-aquired' O-A visa which will activate a further 1 year allowance without paperwork, essentially getting a second year on the first visa.

    Can anyone break out the details and or confirm my understanding please.

    Cheers, Tron
    Reply

      • Tron says

        Sorry. I recently saw comments elsewhere that said to the effect "leaving the country before the 1 year term expires, on a turnaround, will get you an additional permission to stay of one year" effectively stretching the potential retirement visa stay to nearly 2 years. Much like the idea of getting 9 months out of the METV.

        I don't expect you to include the following if you post my reply, but for your reference the comment by "Jimn" and just below that "ubonjoe" on Thaivisa https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1089085-retirement-extension-but-outside-thailand-for-extended-periods-and-bank-deposits/?do=findComment&comment=13931972

        I'm familiar with all the requirements etc, etc, just the key question of whether this is actually true for retirement as well.

        Thanks
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          Right, so if you have an OA visa from the embassy in your home country, when you enter it activates the year. Then, before it expires, you leave and re-enter to get a further 1-year permission of stay. But if you want to leave during that new year, you'd need a re-entry permit.An OA is essentially the same as an extension of stay based on retirement, except the route is different because an OA you get from the embassy rather than doing the extension in Thailand off the back of having a Non Immigrant O visa, as described in my post.If you go the Non Immigrant O visa route, then once your year is up you simply apply to extend again. However, you must meet the financial requirements to do that. The advantage of the OA is that for the second year you can avoid the financial requirements by leaving and re-entering prior to your visa expiring.
          Reply

          • Max says

            The O-A Long Stay Visa can only be obtained in your home country and multiple re-entry is included. And it's actually correct that you can leave the country just before it expires and you'll get one more year. When you extend it 1 year you still have an O-A Visa. The type of visa doesn't change.
            Reply

              • Max says

                No,I don't think you can convert any visa to an O-A in Thailand. O-A and O-X Visas can only be obtained in your home country. That's the whole point because you need police records and the medical form to be able to apply for them.
                Reply

                • James E says

                  The Thai Immigration forms are TM-86 (if you have an O visa that you want to change) or TM-87 (if you are applying for a new visa). The police records are not required when applying in Thailand but the financial requirement is only fulfilled with the money in a Thai bank.
                  Reply

                  • Max says

                    Sorry,but you're wrong. When you change visa from 60 days TR to Non-Immigrant O Retirement Visa,and then extend it 1 year,you STILL have a Non-immigrant O. NOT an O-A. It has nothing to do with the 1 year period.
                    An O-A visa from your home country will still be an O-A visa after a 1 year extension. I have done all this myself. I know how it works.
                    Reply

                  • Gary says

                    James is spot on as this is exactly what I did when I arrived last year . I entered Thailand with a 60 day visa and then applied for a change of visa and received an O-A visa which takes me up to next February.
                    This route does away with the medical and Police checks in your home country { and no I'm not a criminal or infirm it was just quicker for me to move after retirement } , but does require you to have the 800K in place already in Thailand before you apply on the TM 86. I set up my bank account on a previous visit in the February before flying out in October to ensure the funds were siting in the bank for the required time period.
                    Oh yes as a foot note this method is actually less expensive than obtaining the O-A in the UK as well !
                    Reply

                    • Max says

                      You did not get an O-A Visa. You got an Non-immigrant O which you can extend 1 year after 60 days. Check your passport. This is the most common way to get a visa based on retirement in Thailand. O-A can only be obtained in your home country.

    • James E says

      This *might* work although I'm thinking the best you can do will be only 90 days. There are two considerations. First, you're going to have to apply to make your Visa multi-entry. If you're coming from the US the website states: "Validity of a visa: multiple entries." However, reading on it also says: "During the one-year period, if he or she wishes to leave and re-enter the country, he or she is required to apply at the Immigration office for re-entry permit (single or multiple) before departure." So you'll want to make sure that this is clarified. If a reentry permit is needed I think you'd want to get that early in the visa's initial validity rather than toward the end when it might be more obvious what you have in mind. Second, You may be opening yourself up to extra questions. For example, while you will be well within the law to stay until your stamped date you'll still need to do 90-day reporting. I'm not sure how the 90-day reporting works when you are operating on an expired visa. Immigration can ask you for anything and everything they want to continue your stay; including getting a valid visa. Since your 1 year visa is essentially 4 sequential 90 day stays your second period may just end up being a 30-day exemption stamp since your visa would be technically expired. A lot would depend upon the immigration officer. They could ask you to leave. This would suddenly put you in jeopardy of getting a new O-A unless you've already got the financial requirements met. Seems like there might be a bunch of downside with only a bit of an upside.
      Reply

  86. Terry Barclay says

    Hi, over a 12 month period my account shows income of 880k, hi point 200k
    Low point 70k with monthly income of between 70 to 80k every month,
    Exchange rate ???, would this be acceptable to the nice people at immigration.
    Thank you
    Reply

    • Max says

      If you come from the UK,Us or Australia, your embassy doesn't issue income letters anymore.
      That's why your Thai bank book must show international transfers = FTT every month around the same period of the month. Plus you need a bank letter from the bank.
      Reply

      • Bubba says

        I have been that route and Bangkok Bank would not issue me a letter showing deposits that went back further than 6 months. That was unacceptable to Immigration at Lak Si. Immiration said, "our policy.." Bank said, "our policy..." Mexican standoff. I still don't know how I got my vida renewed.
        Reply

        • Gary says

          I was told the same when I requested 12 months worth of transactions at the Bangkok Bank Branch located downstairs from the Immigration offices in Bangkok. I was however able to get the full list when I went back to the branch where I opened the account originally. Apparently only your original branch can access12 months data and any other branch will only give you 6 months data.
          I wonder if this is what you have experienced and they have failed to explain themselves at the Branch. Try your original set up Branch as I believe you will have better luck .
          Reply

          • Bubba says

            I visited my original Bangkok Bank branch and two other branches and was informed of the same thing. That can only produce letters retroactively 6 months. I had an Thai official accompany me and that individual was told the same thing. When told that Immigration requires a one year statement, the branch manager simply replied,"That is not our policy."
            Reply

            • Max says

              They are still wrong.
              The new requirements from Immigration states that they want to see a bank letter showing 12 consecutive international transfers. Your Bangkok Bank branch should know this. It's 9 months since the new requirements kicked in.
              Reply

        • Max says

          Your bank branch is totally wrong. They should know about the new requirements starting about 20181226, in some Immigration offices 20190101. You can visit the main office on Silom Road,they know how it works.
          In Chonburi province and in other provinces there's no problem what so ever at B-Bank with income letters showing international transfers for 12 months. That in combination with copies of the bank book showing foreign transfers is what Immigration demands.
          Reply

  87. Tom Larner says

    For six months after renewing a retirement extension you must still have maintained an 800K balance.
    What do you need to do to prove this to Immigration on the 6 months anniversary? Copies? Letters?, etc?
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      It's 3 months for the 800k and then 400k thereafter. When you do your yearly extension you will have to show you bank book and they will be able to see your withdrawals and balance. You will also require a letter from the bank to confirm the account has met the requirements.
      Reply

    • Gary says

      I took everything and they asked for nothing ! . I think you see so many different officials that they forget what you are there for and its pot luck if you get asked to show your bank book again until your years renewal is due and then its all about the dreaded TM 30 and fines . I would take your bank book and if asked it will show when the funds went in and how long they have remained above the threshold limit.
      Reply

      • Max says

        You never show your bank book. But you have to take copies of your bank book twice a year.
        When you apply for your 1 year extension and last time 3 months after to show you still got >800k.
        That's a new requirement from March 1. Immigration calls it a 90 days check.
        The TM30 mess is what it is,and we'll have to wait and see what happens.
        Reply

  88. Bubba says

    I am a United States citizen on a retirement visa. I am truly retired and want to do some extensive travelling in Asia when my O-A visa expires. If after a few months I wish to return to Thailand, what is going to be the most expedient way to reapply for an O-A visa? I have no intention of returning back to the United States just to undergo all the hoops you have to go through there again to obtain an O-A visa.
    Reply

    • Max says

      You can actually leave Thailand just before the O-A Visa expires and re-enter. You will get another year O-A Visa. Multiple re-entry is included in the O-A Visa. The other option is to extend the O-A Visa 1 year 30 days before it expires,but then you have to meet the financial requirements.
      Reply

        • Max says

          How long have you been on your O-A Visa? The first year the multiple re-entries are free. Just before it expires you can leave and come back and automatically get another year. The second year you need a re-entry or multiple re-entry permit to leave and come back. When the second year is about to expire (about 30 days before) you have to apply for a 1 year extension at Immigration. The cost is 1900 baht. You have to meet the financial requirements,though. You need >800k in a Thai bank 2 months before applying, and still need >800k 3 months after. Then >400k the rest of the year.
          Reply

          • Bubba says

            I have been here 3 years now. During that time the Immigration policy regarding finances has changed but the fact of the matter remains is that I have an O-A visa with multiple reentries for each year and never have I been allowed to extend my visa beyond the original expiration date stamped on the visa expiration.
            Reply

    • James E says

      Your best bet might be to be somewhere where you can get the plain non-imm O visa (Something that isn't offered in the US) which gives you 60 days (I think) and then get it changed to an O-A when you get back to TLOS. If your plans include Oz I think you can apply for an O there. Check with the RT Embassy websites in the other countries you'll be traveling in to see if it's offered there.
      Reply

      • Max says

        The first year you have multiple re-entries included in the O-A Visa, and if you left the country just before the visa expired,you would have gotten a free second year. Get it? The second year you have to apply for the multiple re-entries,and same the third year.
        The requirements (>800k in the bank) has not changed the last 3 years. Just extend your visa another year 30 days before the visa expires,and you have another year + apply for multiple re-entries.
        Reply

        • James E says

          Max, "If you left the country just before the visa expired,you would have gotten a free second year." I can't see how this works. Your visa has a validity of 1 year and you are allowed up to a one-year stay on an O-A. So if you left and returned you would be stamped back in for a year (possibly) but not if you just left. Plus, during the year (or however long you were stamped in for) your O-A would expire so you would have to either extend it before the expiration date or apply for a new one. However, if you're saying you basically skip every other year then once your visa expires - even if you have multiple re-entries - leaving Thailand would invalidate your stay as you will be stamped out and not have a valid visa to return under.
          Reply

  89. alfie says

    "Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted. The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,000 until the extension ending."
    So can you tell me When and How i could withdraw the remaining 400k if i decide to leave Thailand ?
    Reply

      • Bubba says

        What happens if you change your mind and decide to stay another year? You have now met the 800K visa requirement but your income has changed and you deposit 70,000 baht every month to meet the visa requirement. At what point can you remove the remaining funds?
        Reply

        • Max says

          You can change method to meet the requirements for a 1 year extension from >800k in the bank,to >65k monthly.
          If you come from the UK,US or Australia your embassy doesn't issue income letters starting 20190101. You need 12 monthly international transfers, that's important and they should arrive in the bank every month and about the same time. Never 2 transfers one month and none next month. You need a bank letter from your Thai bank and copies of your bank book showing 12 foreign transfers = FTT. That's very important at the moment.
          Other countries uses income letters from their embassies as usual. >65k monthly in the bank is not required.
          If you want to transfer your 800k in the bank to your bank abroad,they can as I understand it be repatriated. You have to show they were an international transfer in the first place,and provide the Thai bank with all information they need about the bank, account no,Swift code etc etc. If you need cash then you can almost withdraw as much as you want. Cleaning the account wouldn't be the best move in my opinion. Always nice to have some money in the bank for a rainy day.
          Reply

        • James E says

          At whatever point you meet the income requirement as a stand-alone and how you decide to balance whatever remaining funds you have in your account. If you want to take it to zero you'll need to document (at least) 65KBaht "income paid into a Thai bank account each month and prove this by way of a 12-month bank statement history." (As mentioned in the post.) I have also seen some reference to needing the deposits to show as international but I'm not sure about that. So, in short, you can take the funds out after you have met your obligations under your current visa/extension - so, down to 400K after 3 months with the remaining 400K after your third 90-day check-in. You may want to see if immigration will switch your qualifications mid-stream - say at the 3 or 6-month point - with documentation of income.
          Reply

          • Max says

            If the transfers aren't international/foreign,the application will be denied. That's also what the bank letter from the bank shows. Some banks issues both statements + a letter that shows the transfers as foreign.
            Every transfer in the bank book has to be a foreign transfer = FTT.
            Many applications have been denied because of Interbank Transfers. That's when the transfered money has been sent to another bank first,then been routed to the applicants bank. Some Immigration offices don't trust the bank letters and just look at the transfers in the bank book.You should read up on the requirements,they are not secrets. And there are many reports online about applications being denied. Hopefully Immigration will learn to trust the banks instead of the transfers in the bank book.
            Reply

            • James E says

              Max is right. Make sure all your ducks are lined up. I use Bangkok Bank and Transferwise and my transfers show up as FTT in my bank book. My account statement says they're "international" transfers but then goes on to cover themselves by saying the transferrer is responsible for calling them international. Take the book.
              Reply

              • Max says

                You're having problems with your BB branch,while others have no problems what so ever. Immigration requires the bank letter and that's what you have to give them + copies from your passbook. Otherwise you won't get an extension.
                Can't you visit BB main office on Silom Road?
                They should be able to help you.
                Reply

      • Max says

        5x 1900 baht for 5 years retirement visa against 500k for an Elite Visa. You still have to do 90 days reports and TM30 reports with the Elite Visa. Ok,there are less paperwork,but I spend about 1 hour a year to get my copies and bank letter for Immigration. I stay 5 min from my Immigration office.
        Reply

  91. Terri says

    I want to move - "ringfence" my retirement visa money of 800k, just from one saving account to another - same day transfer - both accounts in my sole name. I'm four months into my visa year. That shouldn't cause a problem on annual renewal/extension, should it?
    Reply

  92. jonathan says

    June 11 2019.

    Went this morning for my yearly retirement visa (non-o) to the Bangkok Immigration office. This time they wanted a map which shows the place I live. Of course I didn't know that because this is something new. This time not a big problem, but they let me make a drawing whereabout I live. Next year this will be a problem.

    Another problem I encountered: half a year ago I was for two days in Hua Hin for a short break. The officer told me that I am therefore registered in Hua Hin. They even showed me prove (a picture and documents made in the Hua Hin hotel). So I had to go to change my address (into the address where I live for many years) first before getting my retirement visa.

    Very annoying, not the least for the officers who have to deal with this BS. On a positive note: the Immigration Officers were, as always and without exception, super friendly and at noon I finally got my visa.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi Jonathan, thanks for the update.A map? That is a new one. Funny that they let you draw one. It can all get quite ridiculous at times.The situation in Hua Hin is rare but can potentially occur because the hotel logged your new address while staying with them, and then when you return home the owner of that property would then need to log you there again.
      Reply

    • Bubba says

      The address change happened to me too. Plus to change it back at the Immigration department at Laksi I had to pay a fine before I could renew my O-A! Now when I travel within Thailand, if I am traveling with Thais, I put the reservation in their name and just pay for the hotel in cash. Otherwise, if I am not traveling with Thais, I just have the owner of the property fill out the form and then I mail it to Laksi and let them deal with the hotel for not filing the form. As far as the map thing goes, I'll be prepared with a map of Thailand showing Bangkok and have an X to mark the spot.. I don't do maps. Can't draw worth a hoot.
      Reply

    • Max says

      The hotel in Hua Hin did what they are required to do by law. They reported your stay by submitting the TM30 form. When you come back home, you or your landlord have to submit a new TM30. CW immigration in BKK are really tough regarding this procedure.
      Reply

  93. gary says

    Hi,
    I am about to attend my first 90 day visit to Immigration, can anyone confirm what is now needed for them since the rules changed around the banking of the 800K prior to and after the granting of the extension of stay. Do I need a bankers letter, my bank book , both or something else ? I've looked through the posts but can't see any definitive answer unless I'm on the wrong post (apologies if the case).
    Can I also confirm if I visited the UK at the end of March so my 90 days started on my return date when a new TM6 was issued ?
    Reply

  94. Andrew Evans says

    I would like to obtain a retirement visa but have tried several banks and they will not let me open a bank account on a Tourist Visa, so I can't put the 800,000 baht into a Thai bank. How do foreigners open bank accounts in Thailand?
    Reply

    • James E says

      Read through the comments. There's a ton of them but that's the first step. If you're in on a tourist visa it boils down to: 1) Find a branch that will work with you. Thai banking depends on the season, the manager, the position of the stars in the heavens and whether they have an account quota to meet. 2) Dress well. You go in looking like a tourist, you're going to get treated like a tourist. Banks make nothing on an account for a tourist. If you can at least hint that there might be more business down the road in terms of deposits, a condo buy, whatever, you'll do better. 3) Bring a Thai national who will vouch for you and provide an address. You need a permanent (as in good even when you're not in-country) address. If you're renting a condo, fine. Staying with friends, fine. You just need a way to prove it's your address and it'll work down the road. I got my account on a visa waiver entry. Just give them a reason to want to work with you. Good luck!
      Reply

  96. Teresa says

    I can prove an income of 65,000 baht per month but not in a Thai bank account. I have not got 800,000 to put in the bank by August this year. What can I do to get a retirement visa renewed in November? Advice greatly appreciated.
    Reply

    • Bubba says

      You have options. You can renew your visa in your native country. The Thai embassy in your country will probably accept your income being deposited in a bank in your country. The Thai Embassy and consulates in the United States will do that. (You can use it as an excuse to return home. :)) The money could be borrowed from a bank, most certainly in your home country and possibly from a Thai bank. It would depend upon your finances, collateral, etc. You could borrow the money from relatives with the same security for them that a bank requires. You may have cash value life insurance that you can borrow against too. You may want to liquidate some of your assets, too at this time in your life. It is time to start thinking creatively.... don't give up too easily.
      Reply

      • TheThailandLife says

        If applying for a retirement visa in your home country it is called a Non-Immigrant O-A (long stay) visa. You don't need money in a Thai bank account to do this, you would need to meet the financial requirements detailed on the website of your local Thai embassy.
        Reply

  97. Liz says

    Requirements:
    “Or, ฿800,000 in a Thai bank account for 60 days+ before applying for the extension. And ฿800,000 remaining for 3 months after the extension, and ฿400,000 thereafter. “

    “The ฿800,000 must be in the bank for at least 2 months before your visa application.”

    Observation: The first requirement applies to the time of extension and clearly states a Thai Bank.
    The second requirement applies to the initial application and does not state the location of the bank i.e. Thailand or one’s home country.

    Question: When making the initial application for this VISA, can the required 800,000 BHT, be in the applicants bank in their country of residence, then transferred to a Thai bank, approximately, 3 months before filing for an extension?
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      You apply for a Non Immigrant O visa in your home country. The requirements for this are listed at the end of the post. You enter Thailand on that visa. To do the extension of stay based on retirement you must arrange to have 800k in a Thai bank account for 60+ days before applying. So you transfer the 800k from your home country to your newly set up Thai bank account. Under the new rules this 800k must stay in your bank for 3 months post applying for the extension of stay based on retirement, and 400k must remain thereafter (so you could spend 400k and leave 400k there). But that 800k would need to be back there 60+ days before you renew the following year.
      Reply

      • Chris says

        The US Embassy has added a new wrinkle to the renewal system: The United States Department of the Treasury now offers direct deposit of federal benefit payments, including Social Security Administration (SSA), Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), and Office of Personnel Management (OPM), to banks in Thailand. The payments are automatically converted to Thai Baht (THB) at the international exchange rate before they are deposited in the account. U.S. dollar payments are not available. The United States Department of the Treasury does not charge fees to make the deposits. However, Thai banks may charge fees. It will be interesting to see how Immigration deals with this.
        Reply

  98. Betsy says

    Reading this it seems to imply that I can come and go as I please on a retirement visa. Is the retirement visa the best option for me if I wish to, let'ts say, spend seven months of the year in Canada and five in Thailand?
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      You could come and come over the course of a year if you get the multiple re-entry permit. 5 months in a row? You could save yourself the hassle and just get a 6-month multiple entry tourist visa. That will give you 60 days straight. You could then leave and re-enter, and get another 60 days. That's 4 months. Then before the the second set of 60 days is up go to immigration and extend for 1,900 Baht for another 30 days. Voila. 5 months.
      Reply

    • James E says

      TTL's suggestion works well if you consider "leave and re-enter" and "go to immigration" to be saving yourself a hassle. I like the idea you suggest and have considered it myself but haven't needed to go that route yet. It has several key benefits: First, no visa/border runs. That will pay for the extra cost of the O-A visa right there. Second, by getting the O-A visa in Canada you bypass the needed 800K Baht in a Thai bank account and you can keep your funds at home. Third, the obnoxious medical certification can be obtained (at least the second time) in Thailand where they realize it's just a formality. Last, according to the Royal Thai Embassy in Canada: "The visa fee for the Non-Immigrant Visa "O-A" is CAD 250.00 (multiple entries)." I'd confirm this as there is conflicting information on the page but, if true, would allow you to come and go during your stay in Thailand. If you timed it right you could go to Thailand, stay five months, return to Canada, stay six months and three weeks, go back to Thailand and re-enter for another five months all on one visa. Then, when you get back to Canada, start the process all over again.
      Reply

  99. Philip Robinson says

    As a UK citizen at the present time i have to go down the route of putting 800000baht in aThai bank account to obtain my retirement extension visa. my question is are you able to put the 800000baht in a interest making account or are you compelled to put it in to a non interest type account. can you give some information on this
    Reply

    • James E says

      You just put it into a savings account. I'm not sure if it can be a time-deposit (like a CD) but that works if you get the O-A overseas. So maybe. Interest rate is pretty pitiful but on my BKK bank regular savings it's enough to pay the annual ATM card fee. (Not that I've got any kind of real money in the account, mind you...)
      Reply

  101. Lo says

    Can I use TransferWise to transfer my 800000 Baht into my Thai Bank Account? Because basically TransferWise system of transferring money is that the money never left the original country. Does the Thai immigration accept this as a form of money must be coming from a foreign country. Thanks
    Reply

    • Bubba says

      All of my transfers have been made via Transferwise. The amount that you transfer is aggregated along with other transfers to get the best exchange rate. Once the money is in Thailand it shows up as a deposit in my Bangkok Bank account. Immigration has never questioned the deposits as they appear in the Bangkok Bank passbook which I present along with the bank statement. Note, that as a US Citizen I also have to abide by US banking laws, so I make my transfers in 3 payments to avoid problems.
      Reply

    • Mike says

      Transferwise use Bangkok Bank (and 2 other, unknown, local banks) as their Thai intermediaries so if you have an account with them it should show as an FTT (foreign transfer transaction) on your passbook.
      BUT, if you use another bank that is not one of the select 3, it will be a domestic transfer from BKK Bank (or one of the other 2 ) and therefore will not satisfy Immigration's requirements.
      Reply

  102. TheThailandLife says

    FYI: Here's an update I received by email from an expat doing a retirement extension renewal in Chiang Mai:

    The way you lay it out may be the letter of the law but it is not how it is being enforced in Chiang Mai.

    They accepted twelve US bank statements confirming my income. For this year they just need to see a few International money transfers into a Thai bank that would either add up to 800,000/b yearly or be augmented with a bank account all totaling the called for amount.

    They seem to understand that we did not have time to prepare this year but expect to see all the transfers next year.

    My situation happens to be monthly but I don't think that really matters. International documented transfers to a Thai bank and/or money in the bank totaling 800,000/b is all that they are after.

    My impression was that as Consulate letters are nonexistent they are accepting that and just moving on.
    Reply

  103. Bryan Carpenter says

    I have the 800K baht in my account and it has been there for more than 3 months. However, I plan to dip into it immediately after my retirement visa is approved. This means that I will not comply with the requirement to keep 800k in the account for three months after the visa is issued. How will this affect me? Will it be checked (Bank statements) when I report after 90 days? How will thus requirement be enforced?
    Reply

      • Chris says

        One option is to have two accounts. Leave the one with 800K baht alone and use the other for year day to day expenses. Then when the waiting period is elapsed you can pull out what you need. If you need to physically present your bankbook every 90 days or get a bank letter, Immigration will be faced with a 900 pound gorilla.. Personally I expect the system will collapse on itself. Expect changes.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          An updated bank book is pretty easy for most to manage, to I suspect they will go with that. But yes, I expect changes soon enough because addressing the fraud by making the system more bulletproof stops the flow of black-market money, which means less tea money for everyone.
          Reply

          • Bubba says

            Not only that but it will be the demise of the 90 day online and mail reporting. The whole system is archaic. Repriprocity is the only way to go. If a Thai citizen gets a US visa it can be good for 10 years and allow multiple entries and it only costs a couple of hundred dollars. Thailand needs something like that..
            Reply

            • TheThailandLife says

              The difference is that it is very hard to get a visa for the US, whereas a Thai visa is easy to come by for most. So once you have that visa they need a system that ensures everyone is properly tracked - because the reality is that many undesirable, ill-intentioned people end up with visas. One alternative would be to make the requirements for a long-stay visa much stricter, and the initial checks much more thorough - like the US. This could be a 5 or 10 year visa, like you suggest. But then we have to be careful what we wish for, as we've seen with the most recent changes. Sure, it's annoying to have to report every 90 days and it could be made easier by simply checking in at a local police station instead, or having online reporting that actually works, but up until now, in general, it has kind of worked.
              Reply

  104. Stephanie says

    I’m currently on a non immigrant O-A visa from Australia. I will be residing in Thailand until the visa expires. Can I then go back to Australia and go through the process again and apply for another non immigrant O-A visa. Please note that I’m on the second year of this visa as I left the country and came back before the expiry date so got stamped in for another 12 months.
    Reply

    • James E says

      Yes this works. I'm not sure how the new currency requirements for in-country (Thailand) will affect the process, so check that out. I've always thought this was a viable method for people who travel home once a year or so to maintain their visa status without needing to park the cash in Thailand. It also, as you found out can effectively change a 1-year visa into 2 years. Again the rules may have changed in Oz so check that out first. (I'm going to check right now for the US...)
      Reply

    • James E says

      Just checked the Royal Thai Embassy in DC and one is still allowed to use US based funds for the deposit/income requirement for the O-A. The O-X requires the funds to be in Thai financial institutions. If it's not a big deal to get the criminal background check and the medical history (which I've often thought was best done in Thailand anyway...) then get the new visa at home.
      Reply

  105. Philip Robinson says

    I have a retirement visa which finishes in Dec 2019 due to the new rules where i would have to keep 800,000Baht in my account for 3months and 400,000Baht for the remaining time, i would like to change to showing i have a pension income of 65,000Baht a month, so if i arrange to have my UK pension paid into my Thai bank acc from May 2019 would i qualify for a retirement visa in Dec 2019 or would i need to have my pension going into my Thai bank acc for 12 months prior to Dec 2019.As a UK citizen do i qualify to obtain a Thai retirement visa using the 65,000Baht month income.The capital i have at present in my Thai acc is below 400,000Baht as i use this money for living costs in Thailand.I would appreciate your ideas on the best way i should go about getting an extension to my retirement visa
    Reply

  106. Brian hislop says

    With my800000on fixed deposit do I have to be married with papers for my thai wife to get access to this money when I pass. I can't have joint acc or for her to have signing authority .any advice thanks brian
    Reply

  107. GARRY L CORWIN says

    Does the retirement visa have any restrictions on travel? If I own a condo in Thailand, can I come and go as I please? Do I have to apply for a retirement visa very year?
    Please advise the best way to go on spending 2 months in Thailand and leave to return one month later and stay for 2 months.
    Thank you
    Garry
    Reply

  108. Joy says

    I have a follow up on Chris’ comment re medical insurance : if one is too old to buy a medical insurance, what options does one have if any?
    Can one show proof of funds to cover medical bills? Or is there another possibility? Can a retirement extension be denied on the basis of “no medical insurance”?
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      There is no official requirement for medical insurance for the retirement extension, yet. The plan is to make it a requirement for those with the one-year Non-immigrant Visa "O-A" (Long Stay). They will be required to have a Thai insurance policy covering their entire stay in Thailand with a minimum 40,000 Baht out-patient coverage and minimum 400,000 Baht in-patient coverage.
      Reply

      • Chris says

        Be prepared to pay the high customs duties, have a detailed manifest of all of your items, and don't ship any valuables that you can not afford to lose.. I am 5'11 and have no trouble finding clothes to fit so you may want to reconsider what you ship.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          Indeed. It's best to buy stuff here and bring essentials over in luggage. Living here kind of forces you to live more minimally, at least it does when you're moving around year to year – which is a good thing in my opinion.
          Reply

          • Robert Booth says

            Hi,
            I recently decided to bring over my stuff from the UK. I have been on a retirement visa for some years. I sent 5 cartons by sea from UK when I sold my house. The customs duty was NIL. I think I was allowed to do this one time.
            There are a few restrictions: numbers of one type of item, no toys! Nothing seen as new! I did not even have my boxes opened and checked! It did enable me to bring those possessions I treasured and make Thailand feel more like home!
            Reply

  110. David Bushnell says

    Lots of talk here about requiring O-A annual extenders to have mandatory health coverage from a Thai insurance company (Nation newspaper Dec 2018 describing a Key conference which recommended approval for legislature to proceed). Why just O-A holders? Non-O will surely follow. Have you heard anything on this?
    Reply

    • James E says

      This is currently a requirement for the O-X visa. Other than trying to get a few more satang into the economy I think the concern is that the elderly (I count myself among them) won't have the means to pay for health care as the national plans, Medicare, NHS, etc., tend not to cover overseas costs. They don't want somebody to rack up big medical bills and then just depart the country leaving Bumrungrad holding the bag.
      Reply

      • CHRIS says

        The Thai medical system is good and relatively inexpensive. I have the same problem that many expats have, too old to buy insurance. The government can require you have insurance to have a visa..they now have to figure out how you can get it, waive the requirement, deny the visa or let it become a non-issue.. It's a simple as that and that is the way many countries handle the issue. I will wait and see..
        Reply

  111. Anees says

    First I would like to thank you for putting up great information on this site. I have a few questions.

    1- Will the Thai immigration accept a rental income from property in the US, if so, how can I prove it?

    2-Does the Thai immigration accept Supplemental Security Income from the US?

    3-If my spouse or I decide to apply for the retirement visa as a dependent of the other, then does the 800K route cover both spouses? Thanks.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      1. Have it paid unto a Thai bank account on a monthly basis. 2. They accept all income, but it must be proven, as above. 3. If the "other" is under 50, they can be the dependent and only 800k is needed for the one retiree, because only one person will be on the retirement visa.Hope this helps! Thanks
      Reply

  112. Michelle says

    I’m looking for clarification for the “retirement “ visa for a married couple. I understand if one person is 50 they qualify and a spouse younger than 50 can apply for a dependent visa. Can this continue once they reach 50 and then only one would require to prove the financial requirement? What if it is the woman who is the older of the 2?
    Reply

  113. John Brichacek says

    I have a question regarding joint accounts. My wife and I are 74 years old American citizens, and have been living in Thailand for the past 5 years with the non-immigrant O visa. We have renewed in past years using an income letter from our embassy. We currently have a joint bank account wth Siam Commercial Bank. If we have 1,600,000 THB in this account will this fulfill the requirements of the Thai Immigration for our separate visa renewals? Or do we each have to have a separate account - one account in my name and one in her name?
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Are you wanting to do a retirement extension? Immigration considers the funds in a joint account as 50/50%, so you could apply for your separate visas both using this account as long as there is 1.6m in there. That being said, I can't be 100% certain that all immigration offices will follow this rule. It might be best to check first with the office you plan on using.
      Reply

  114. JOHN PARKER says

    My question relates to the "married-to-thai". The amount of bank balance is 400,000b 60days before renew (then 90 days on further renews). Does the 400,000b then reduce by 50% (200,000b) like the 800,000b reduces to 400,000?THANKS
    Reply

  115. Peter says

    Hi i am due to renew my retirement visa in September and have a thai account able to reansfer etc but i would prefer to keep it in the uk and just transfer what i need
    SO would the accept a translated letter of proof of pension ..from a general translator ...and a copy of my uk. Statements ???
    Or does it have to be from the minstry of foreing affairs translater in Bangkok

    If not i will move the 65000 each month reluctantly ...until the rate goes up !!! Lol
    Thanks
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi Peter, please read the new rules regarding pension/income letters that relate to UK and US citizens. The embassy is no longer issuing letters and that was the only source immigration accepted a letter from, so you may have to go the 800k in a Thai bank route.
      Reply

    • Dave in Udon says

      Peter, I stopped in at Udon Immigrations to ask about the 65k each month. You must transfer it every month without fail. Cannot skip a month and double up the next. Must be a bank-to-bank transfer, cannot make the 65k deposit yourself. Cannot transfer in excess of 12 x 65k annually hoping to skip a month or two. Big Boss confirmed this. Of course, he said, you could always make it easier by going the 800k route. Seems they are really pushing this, I suspect, to help the banks and the country.

      Evidently they want an end to guys keeping all money back home and getting by here with an ATM card.

      Oh yes, the verifying bank letter must be signed by bank manager on the same day as visa extension.

      They have heard nothing about requiring hospital insurance for retirement visa extensions...

      Hope this helps?..
      Reply

      • TheThailandLife says

        Thanks for the update Dave. The fact that the bank letter has to signed the same day is ridiculous, because you'd have to make an appointment with the bank manager (which they may let you down on) or hope the manager is available that morning. As you note, they are really pushing this and squeezing everyone onto the 800k requirement. I wonder how many retirees there are in Thailand; I can never find a figure for that. 800k x all the retirees is a nice cash boost for the banks and reflects well on the economy.
        Reply

      • James E says

        I may be more favoring the social engineering aspect of this requirement. The problem with being a "cheap place to retire" is that it attracts a segment of society (of which I am a member) which doesn't have much in the way of disposable income. Toughen up the 800,000KB and 65KB requirements or add some visas like the OA-X and Elite to make life easier and all of a sudden the demographics shift to a group of people who have more money to drop into the local economy as they spend their days away along Sukhumwit Road.

        They're not interested in the 800KB (which is chump change to an economy even if there are a million retirees) tied up in a bank, they're interested in the 1-2MB that will be spent into the economy which, through the Miracle of Modern Monetary Theory, turns into much more than that.

        Plus it clears out the riff-raff... :)
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          Yes, it does seem like they are pushing for the "quality retiree" so to speak. And I guess they are working on the assumption that like attracts like. But how long before 800k becomes 1MB and the goal posts are shifted further?
          Reply

          • James E says

            I think that will depend a lot on what happens in the Big Country to the North. When ex-pat retirement becomes a thing for the Chinese worker Thailand may be an enticing destination. But if Thailand can keep the buy-in cost low enough to still be attractive to your "quality retiree" but high enough to keep out 200,000,000 of my "riff-raff" then they might find that bargain attractive enough to exclude some of the western retirement dollars/pounds/euros that will be priced out of the market.
            Reply

            • CHris says

              What seems to be overlooked is the fact is that it is costly to transfer money every month, more so than transferring the money 3 or 4 times in a lump sum. As a US citizen, if I transfer more than $10,000 at once, alarm bells start in Washington and I want nothing to do with the Feds. Another issue that seems to be forgotten is that if you transfer 65,000 every month and then spend 30,000 every month, at the end when you apply for your extension, you have a 360,000 baht deficit. Add that to the 800,000 balance and you had better be prepared to transfer over a million baht every year!
              Reply

  117. Vlad says

    It would indeed be interesting to know how immigration wants to control the new rules regarding the 800,000 baht rule. if the control is only checked when applying for extension, the rule does not make much sense, because there are sure to be visa agencies that fake a bankbook for a high price. As I understand it, this new rule should also serve to eliminate these visa agencies. According to this, the updated banking book together with the passport would have to be checked at the 90-day report. Then they would have the hundred percent control. Well, we will see... But there will be kinda exodus of farangs. If I consider a couple of experiences with some "not enough money" expats it might be not bad at all. It might even increase the reputation of the rest.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hey Vlad, I assume that previously agencies have arranged for the money to be in the bank 60 days beforehand and then taken the money out as soon as the extension has been done. But now the money has to be there for 3 months after, and then 400k has to be there at all times. This is hugely problematic for the agencies doing the fraud.
      Reply

      • Vlad says

        That's exactly what I say..... And I'm not even sure that they arranged for the money to be in the bank 60 days before. A guy I know goes one time to the agency, just approx. 2 weeks before the visa expires. He also does not contact them before... and after 3 days he can collect his passport. But when I am sitting at the immgration at the "retirement counter" I witness very often younger ladies or boys with a bundle of passports, papers and a bigger bundle of cash. No words, the whole thing is just handed over and dissapears.... Guess under the new boss these days are over too..... No Tips... smile....
        Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      I don't know the answer to that. I only know that you do still need the bank letter for the initial extension and to prove the 800k has been in the bank for 60 days. I would have thought an up to date bank book would suffice to show that the requirement of 800k for a further 3 months and 400k thereafter would suffice. As always, these rule changes are rolled out without considering the full picture. As such, patchwork will no doubt emerge to fix oversights.
      Reply

  119. Bill says

    Hi, thanks for your informative and well-written blog. One question about the retirement visa process. After entering Thailand on the non-immigrant O visa, must I remain in Thailand for the full 60 days before filing a retirement visa application or can I get a re-entry permit and leave the country for, say, a week or two during that period? The reason I ask is that being stuck in Thailand for the full 60-plus days until I get the one-year retirement visa is going to be quite difficult for me given various personal commitments I need to fulfil. Thanks.
    Reply

  120. Thomas says

    Question on your comments on obtaining a “Rentry Permit” on. Retirement Visa. I am living in Thailand on a Retirement OA Visa. With Multiple Entries. I will be leaving Thailand for 3 weeks in March. I was led to believe that I did not need to obtain the Reentry Permit as I have a “Multiple Entry Retirement OA Visa. Was this incorrect information? I will still need a Reentry Permit? Appreciate your feedback.
    Reply

        • Gary says

          I Thought I had some clarity on the O-A Visa process until I read the entry from Chris and the reply from Thailandlife. I obtained my O-A visa on 22nd January and the final 2 paragraphs on the stamp include " To keep your stay permit re-entry permit must be made before leaving Thailand"
          To me that means if you want to leave and return you ned a re-entry permit . As I only saw one option when applying for the Retirement Visa how do I obtain a multi entry Retirement visa and remove the need for a re-entry permit which I collected last week so I can leave Thailand next month and return with my year Visa still valid ?
          Have I missed something on the visa or are people talking about the 3900Baht multi-entry permits and not the 1900Baht O-A Retirement Visa it's self ? Can someone please clarify for me
          Reply

            • gary says

              Ok got it now. The retirement extension of stay has nothing to do with the number of times you can exit/enter . If I understand correctly its all down to what entry visa you obtained initially.
              In my case I just obtained a single entry visa then obtained the Retirement extension here in Thailand but other readers obtained their multi entry Visas outside Thailand and can now use them with the Retirement extension and get around the need to purchase a re-entry permit. It's one of those things I wish I had read more about and understood the significant differences in the two entry visa's when applying in the UK . Thanks for clarifying it for me
              Reply

              • TheThailandLife says

                It shouldn't matter if they had a multiple entry Non-O before the extension. If you have an extension of stay but would like to travel outside Thailand for a short period then you will need to apply for a re-entry permit. You can get a multiple re-entry for 3,800 Baht so that you can travel in and out more than once.
                Reply

  121. Fred Prager says

    You need to update your article as the US Embassy, and other local Embassies, have all discontinued the notarized income/residency letter. The other question might be, Can the 800,000 baht be drawn down for living expenses or does one have to have additional income for that purpose?
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi Fred, I updated my article recently to reflect this change by the uUK embassy, but the US embassy were yet to confirm this change and were still giving out income letters as of the end of January.You must have ฿800,000 in a Thai bank account for 60 days+ before applying for the retirement extension. You then need ฿800,000 to remain in the account for 3 months after the extension, and ฿400,000 thereafter. So ฿400,000 can be drawn out of the account after 3 months.
      Reply

      • CHRIS says

        I'm afraid I can't agree with you. I attempted to do an income affidavit at tye US Embassy and was told emphatically that the affidavit was no longer being issued. I also spent a day this week at District 1 Immigration getting a clarification on the new police policy. Your statement is correct to an extent but with a caveat. Every year, at time of renewal, you must bring your account balance back up to 800,000 baht 60 days prior to renewing your visa. Be sure and watch the timing as you have to have tye whole 800,000 baht in your account by that date.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          Hi Chris, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I just hadn't had confirmation yet on the US embassy; only the British embassy. I will update the post to reflect this change.Indeed, you will need the 800k there 90 days (3 months) days prior to renewal.
          Reply

          • CHRIS says

            Your recent update mentions transferring 65,000 baht per month as the requirement to meet the O-A visa requirement. At Immigration I was told that is just the amount you need to show to have available for expenses each month. You can transfer any amounts to meet the requirement as long as you have 800,000 baht 2 months prior to renewal. For example if your visa expires in June, you could transfer 300,000 three times by March and meet the requirement. I use Transferwise to transfer money and the larger the transfer, the better the discount on the handling fee. I usually transfer $9,500 three times a year to save on the fees. My Thai bank is Bangkok Bank and their office in the District 1 Immigration readily prepares the deposit letter needed for a visa renewal. Also their online banking allows salary transfers back to your home country. If there is a Thai bank that allows online transfers to your home country I'd appreciate knowing it! I hate sitting at the queue here.
            Reply

            • TheThailandLife says

              Hi Chris, there are two routes available for the visa, one is the income route and the other is the 800k route. You don't need to do both. In your case you would need ฿800,000 in a Thai bank account for 60 days+ before applying for the extension based on retirement. According to the new rule, you will also need ฿800,000 for 3 months after doing the extension, and ฿400,000 thereafter. For consecutive visas (so the second and third year) the ฿800,000 has to be in the bank 3 months before you apply for the visa.To use the income route, without a letter from your embassy confirming your income, the suggestion from the UK and US embassies is that you will need to show a bank statement (of 12 months) from your Thai bank account with the 65k being paid in each month. I am closely monitoring the new rules to see if there is any backtracking of new interpretations of what has been stated. I will update my post accordingly.
              Reply

                  • CHRIS says

                    I changed my address due to medical reasons which required a handwritten explanation as to why I was not renewing my visa in the same District office. I had to handwrite an explanation agreeing to deposit 65,000 baht each month. I had to sign and acknowledge an over stay form. I had to get the house owner to sign and handwrite an additional document along with their identity card as the immigration officer wanted this in addition to the 90 day reporting as well as the TM 30 to validate my address. They wanted to see one year of monthly deposits but as a US citizen I was relying on the income affidavit that the embassy no longer does. And Bangkok Bank takes three days, not including mail to produce a copy of a twelve month bank statement which exceeds Immigration's three day time limit for a statement. That was an issue. The officers did not have a checklist of what they wanted so every day that I showed up the officers decided to ask for a new piece of documentation. They were nice enough but the whole process was extremely unnerving and left me questioning if it was worth it.
                    Reply

  122. Peter Hlywa says

    Hi Peter, medication is my question, as you are ware many retiree's or pensioners take regular medication...Is this a problem in Thailand and are the medication costs expensive. In Australia you can buy thru a PBS scheme at a discount price but guessing nothing similar is available in Thailand....Peter
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      There is no such scheme for expats here. Many people bring in more than the 30-day's worth because the 30-day rule is not strictly enforced as long as quantities look small enough to be consistent with personal use and it is not a controlled substance. 2-3 months use might be okay but any medication that looks like a very large quantity would raise issues if checked. You can get all your medication here, though while generics are cheap the proper brands can be more expensive than your home country.
      Reply

    • James E says

      Look into Expat Prescription Drug Insurance through a private insurer. I'm not sure what the rates would be specifically but if you're needing a non-generic medication it might save you a few.

      Also, do a search on whether your meds are available OTC in Thailand. I know some of the things I get when I'm in Thailand (I keep an emergency supply of antibiotics on hand at home) are available without a prescription in Thailand. The last thing to consider, while technically not allowed, is that pharmacists in Thailand seem to have more, ahem, latitude in deciding where the counter is. If you can bring an empty, recent prescription bottle which was accidentally "dropped in the toilet" it might be easily refilled.

      The last suggestion would be to visit a pharmacy out in the 'hood instead of in a mall. You'll find better prices and the same availability.
      Reply

    • CHRIS says

      The answer is "maybe".. it depends upon your current visa. A caveat is the Thai government immigration main website is displayed in the Thai language and the English language. The information cited in the Thai language is not always fully translated word for word into English. To top it off, each immigration district website does not display the same information. You may find that obtaining a visa at a location other than at Lak Si, District 1 far easier.
      Reply

  125. Chris says

    I am a US citizen and in 2017 received an OA visa from the Thai consulate in Los Angeles. In 2018 I renewed my visa using a combination of a Thai bank deposit and an income verification affidavit from the US embassy. It is time to renew my visa and the US embassy has ceased issuing income verification affidavits. I receive over 800,000 baht per year from Social Security and investments. But I do not have the money to deposit 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account as my money is all invested. What do I do? Leave the country appears to be the only answer. Any suggestions?
    Reply

    • James E says

      Hi Chris,

      Places to start: the international SSA office for Thailand which is located in Manila. Contact info: https://www.ssa.gov/foreign/foreign.htm#Tahiti (The #Tahiti just takes you to the first entry under T.) They may be able to provide a more official looking letter than you can get off your My SSA online account.

      You can get a certified copy of your most recent IRS 1040 by requesting same with an IRS Form 4506.

      Your bank/investment house should be able to provide you with a letter that states income you received from the SSA and investments as well.

      Good luck and I hope you report back how it goes.
      Reply

      • CHRIS says

        FBU in Manila does not respond to any current requests for assistance. They may be backlogged due to the recent shutdown. The registered mail I sent to them is being held at Customs in Manila for over two weeks now. My bank does not provide a letter. I've compiled the following to take to Immigration this month..
        Passport photos, Passport, Thai Bank statement, Medical certificate, US Checking statements, US Credit Card statements,
        SSA Earnings statement, UNICEF Thailand statement, Net Worth Statement, 90 day extension form, 90 day reporting form. Iwill keep yo updated.
        Reply

  126. David says

    Hi, I have a question for you in regards to visa and length of stay in the Kingdom of Thailand? I have a O-A retirement multi-entry visa valid until 12/12/2019 and notice that everytime I leave Thailand and come back they increase the length of my stay? I’m thinking deviously here, but looking forward if I were to travel in November 2019 and return before my visa expiry date of 12/12/2019 they would extend my right to stay for an extra year or just the 90 days reporting period. Your thoughts appreciated.
    Dave
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi David,This is the advantage of the O-A.The Non Imm O-A Visa allows multiple entries of 1-year until the 'enter before' date.If you go out and back into Thailand before your 'enter before' date, you will be given permission to stay for another year.If you plan to leave Thailand during the second year of your permission to stay you need to purchase a re-entry permit to keep the validity of your permission to stay valid.You can apply for a 1-year extension of stay based on retirement within the last 30 days of your permission to stay,At this point, you will need to show funds or income, as detailed in the post above, to get the extension.
      Reply

  127. James E says

    The question I have is which O-visa does one apply for? The O-A has all the requirements you list for getting the extension (plus the medical and criminal checks) along with the full-year validity, and (at least at the Royal Thai Embassy in the US) the Family or Volunteering O's are the only other options (other than the O-X). Is there a special O that gets you in and then allows the retirement extension? Thanks!
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      You apply for a Non Immigrant O visa under the category of "retirement (with State Pension)". If you are not in receipt of your pension, you can enter Thailand and get the Non O here. Or you could go for the O-A, but that's a bit more of a hassle.
      Reply

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