Most expats have thought about buying a condo in Thailand at one time or another.
After all, it's one of the few things that can make one feel truly at home in a country with fairly strict laws on land and property ownership for foreign nationals.
Foreign nationals are permitted to buy a condo (freehold) without restriction, but only in a building where more than 51% of the total number of units are Thai owned, otherwise foreign nationals are restricted to a leasehold condo.
Moreover, many of us come from countries where ownership is the ultimate goal, and renting is seen as throwing money down the drain.
Indeed, buying a condo seems like the logical thing to do, especially if you are staying long term or visiting the same province three times a year and splashing out on hotels.
But only fools rush in, and I'd advise caution – because there's a bucket load of things you need to consider before signing on the dotted line for your slice of Thai pie.
Before we get started, it's worth me noting who this post isn't for.
This post isn't for anyone who has so much cash that throwing down 5-10 MB+ for a condo is a mere drip in their champagne glass.
If you don't give a monkey's bottom whether you see a return on your money, whether you're being blinded by marketing ploys or whether your condo was built by builders who haven't been to college or done an apprenticeship, stop reading now – because you're going to buy a condo regardless of my advice, and probably a speedboat, too.
This post is for those who have a modest amount of money looking to put down digs in their favourite part of Thailand, with the vision of having a future here, or at the very least a holiday home.
It's also for those who might be considering a condo as an investment, thinking that the return is likely to be way better than an ISA.
Now that we're clear, let's start!
1. How Big is the Rabbit Hutch?
No one wants to live in a rabbit hutch. Image credit: nydailynews
It's no secret in the Thai property industry that a condo block close to public transport links, the beach or local nightlife tends to have smaller units at an inflated price.
People pay over the odds for convenience and often end up making sacrifices that later down the line become very important and possibly regretful.
Just a few weeks ago a friend and I went to see a condo in Ekkamai, Bangkok. The said condo was 2-bedroom, approximately 60 sq. m., B35,000 a month.
During the viewing, the landlord showing us around mentioned she had other condos, one of which was nearer a station (On Nut station). She explained that it was 41 sq. m, two bedrooms, for B30,000 a month.
We'd already turned our noses up at the size of the one we were viewing, but 41 square metres! How do you fit two bedrooms in that?
The lady went on to explain the market and how developers were increasingly making condos near stations smaller to maximize profits and squeeze higher prices out of buyers/renters.
Land in premium locations is scarce and expensive, which means condo buildings are getting taller and the number of condos in a block is increasing to maximize space.
But here's the crazy thing: The condo we were viewing was only 6 or 7 minutes walk from the station.
So, just by making the sacrifice of having to walk an extra few minutes to the station, for not even £100 more a month, we could have 21 sq. m. more space.
If we were buyers, the difference could have been as much as 1.5 MB.
2. Would You Pay This Much Back Home?
Here's a simple technique to find a great condo in a suitable location.
Wherever it is you want to buy, start your search from the most convenient or attractive part of the area: the station, the beach, the shopping mall, wherever.
Gradually work your way backwards noting prices, until you get to a point where you say, “Hey, that's too far to walk”, or, “I can't be doing with that motorbike taxi ride every day”.
I know you're excited about living in Thailand or owning a holiday home, but as we all know, Thailand has a way of blinding us to certain realities, and condos is one of those.
Compare the equivalent to your home country. For the UK I usually add 2/3 to the price. So if it's 3 million Baht it would be about 9 million back home. Would you shed out the same money back home for an unfurnished apartment, that small?
Make sure you do the math. What often seems cheap in Thailand isn't all that cheap when you make a market comparison. Compare how much you are paying per sq.mt with what you'd pay back home.
Factor in the relative price. If you are paying 5MB for a condo here, the same would be at least 10-15MB in a major city in the UK or US.
Also consider the long-term ramifications:
- Will you and your partner be getting under each other's feet all the time in such a small place?
- It's big enough now but what if you decide to have a kid? Perhaps you have a baby now. They don't stay babies forever, so will this be enough space?
- If you're a singleton, is it big enough to rent a spare room or have people over to stay while they're on holiday?
- It looks spacious on the plans but how much stuff have you got and how much are you likely to accumulate while living here?
- Won't you want a bigger balcony to sit out on?
- Do you really want to look at that main road every day?
- Having a gym upstairs is great, but will those 10kg dumbbells and two bikes really suffice?
- The swimming pool looks good now, but how often is it going to be cleaned and serviced?
3. Are You Buying a Condo Built by Mr O' Rilley?
“I thought you said a wall Mr Fawlty?”
If you're a Fawlty Towers fan then you'll be familiar with the building work of the jolly Irish builder in the picture above, Mr O' Riley.
Humour aside, the build quality of condos in Thailand isn't always up to scratch.
Even those developer brands touting their work as “European standard” have a lot to answer for, particularly when you take a walk past the site and see the dubious hammer and chisel techniques on display.
I remember a friend visiting from the UK sometime ago. A roofer and plasterer by trade, he was gobsmacked by what he observed on the building site opposite his hotel.
At times he'd sit by the pool muttering, “What the?” “What is he doing?” “No, no, no, you can't do that”!
I don't blame the builders, though. In fact, I admire them.
The majority have no formal building education to speak of, the tools they are given to do the job are inadequate, and their lives are treated with such contempt that when it comes to safety standards and wages it's a wonder they manage to make it from one job to the next.
But let's get to the ethics of the Thai construction industry later.
The fact is, the large majority of condos experience build problems in the first few years of operation. If you're lucky you'll escape with the simple stuff:
- The low quality materials used for the facia of the building will fade under the glare of the sun
- The cheap tiles used to lay the flooring in the hallways and your apartment will crack on poorly laid floors
- Door will handles rust
- Walls will crack dues to poor plastering.
- Cheap paint will wear fast.
If you're unlucky there could be more serious issues with leaking or subsidence.
An apartment project in Pathum Thani subsides.
Don't get me wrong, nearly all condo buildings stand the test of time (except the one above, of course) in that they don't fall down.
Generally, however, they do require ongoing maintenance work that you wouldn't expect to do on a new property back in your home country.
Of course the advantage of renting is that this cost is picked up by the owner of the block or the individual condo you are renting privately.
The question is this: Have you researched the materials being used to build the condo you want to buy? If not, why not?
The fact is, if you're planning on paying 2.5MB for a 33 sq. m condo built with paper-thin walls, the cheapest floor tiles from HomePro and a single kitchen hob, then you're getting shafted.
Cheap fittings don't last and break. They need replacing, it's not just an expense but it's annoying.
4. Are You Happy Paying an Inflated Market Rate?
Every real-estate agent in Thailand will be all over this post telling me that the market is booming and 6% yields on rental properties are common.
And you know what, they're right. If, that is, you are Thai and bought off plan with a heads-up from the developer.
Here's a quote from the NomadCapitalist who knows a fair thing or two about property markets and their “legal scams” in Asia:
Here’s one way Thais are playing the real estate market in Bangkok. Connected Thais will find “off-plan” condo projects in areas along the Skytrain line, such as Sukhumvit or Sathorn in Bangkok. Developers require ten percent of the condo price down at signing, which can be paid in installments over one to two years. That means a 500-square-foot, $200,000 condo can essentially be optioned for about $1,000 a month.
The plan in this scenario is to do an off-the-books sale of the purchase contrast to a longer-term investor (or sucker) once construction gets underway. Considering condo prices increase as much as few percentage points per quarter once it goes “on plan”, Thai investors can as much as double their out-of-pocket investment before they flip the property. And because it was off the books, they avoid taxes or much scrutiny.
Such opportunities are not as open to westerners. You have to be connected, and Thailand is very proud of the fact that it was never colonized by any European power. That means no foreigner is going to penetrate their inner circle.
(Quote source: Nomad Capitalist)
Ask yourself this simple question: why are there so many condos sitting empty in Thailand, particularly in Bangkok? Yet the owners would rather have them remain empty than drop the rental rate.
I will tell you:
Quite simply because, considering the points made above, these twilight investors are prepared to take a hit on a few units for the sake of keeping the market artificially inflated, thus enabling their development investments in off-plan condo buildings that get flipped off the books at double-bubble.
5. Is it Really a Good Investment?
I nearly did it once.
Five years ago, a friend and I slapped down a deposit on a condo in Koh Samui. It was to be a holiday home-cum-rental opportunity.
We justified our spontaneous purchase on the continual growth of the island's economy, and the fact that friends could rent it when they came out for a holiday.
Sadly my friend went home after his holiday, took off the rose-coloured glasses and figured that the cash would be safer in an ISA.
He was probably right.
In some ways I wish we'd gone ahead, not least because I'd have a cool little escape in Samui and because market prices have increased since then.
However, the reality is that we probably wouldn't have been able to resell it anyway. The sheer abundance of new builds means the rental market is highly competitive and you need to offer up a cheap deal to make sure your gaff is full all year round.
Not to mention that I can book a decent hotel on a deal from Agoda or Hotel.com for B1.500 a night if I do want to go there for a holiday, hassle free.
Consider this scenario…
When you buy a property in the UK, even if the market crashes post buy, if you hold on for 10 years, you'll still end up getting more than you paid for it, and in most cases make a profit.
Moreover, you will be able to rent the property and make a good yield, regardless of resale market conditions. The crash and climb of the 90s and of the mid 2000s has proven this to be true.
This is not the case for condos in Thailand. As mentioned above, the money is in knowing the man who knows the man, in investing off-plan before the project is announced and flipping off the books.
Buying a condo to rent out for profit is risky at best, unless of course you have a contract with a multinational company that wants to rent your place for staff, or a similar scenario.
And here's why:
Condos for rent are two a penny. The sheer abundance of choice makes it a renter's market. And while your condo might be a popular rent when it's brand new, when ten new blocks go up in the same square mile over the next few years, you'll have to drastically reduce your rental price to compete with the fancy new kids on the block.
Once your air-con unit starts looking shabby and the pigeons have done their worst to the exterior of the property, your condo is way down on the list of units would-be renters favour.
Of course, there are exceptions. For example, buy a 38 MB penthouse on Soi Ruamrudee in Bangkok and you might get 250k+ a month for as long as the big banks and embassies are still in the area – even when the block is a little dated.
But I don't have that sort of cash to shed out, do you?
The sums just don't add up. There's not enough money to be made to take on the risk.
Let's say I buy a 3 million Baht 1-bedroom condo. It's fairly near a BTS station in Bangkok and I get 20k a month for it, and it's always occupied.
It would take me 12.5 years to make my money back, let alone a profit.
Now, tell me, what are the chances of always having a tenant?
And when that 12.5 years is up, what are the chances of being able to sell the condo for more than I paid for it?
And if I did get my 3 million Baht back, the value of that money will have depreciated anyway.
Oh, and you have to pick up all the maintenance fees, too.
I'll rent, thanks.
6. Are You Being Blinded by Furnishings You Won't Get?
The showroom condo might look like this, but you'll probably need another 1MB+ for this level of furnishing.
I'll never forget the time I accompanied a condo-buying friend to a showroom in Tong Lor, Bangkok.
We were given free smoothies and chocolates just for looking around.
It was five-star treatment that made you feel like you'd won the lottery, and that “buying one of these condos is the missing piece of your life”.
We were showed around a beautifully decorated condo. It was small but felt so cosy and looked really well-finished.
Then it struck me to ask the sales lady: “So which type of unit comes decorated like this”.
“None sir. This is just for show”.
I'm not kidding. From the kitchen units down to the silver plug sockets, you didn't get any of this decor for your 6 MB.
I finished my smoothie, drinking down the realization that the entire setup was an oasis.
They'd used a European fitted kitchen and other high-end furnishings that would cost the price of the condo itself to buy and fit (properly) in Thailand.
Without this stuff, it was a mere hamster cage, without the pretty running wheel and drinking bowl.
So, before you put that deposit down, make sure you fully understand what, if any, furniture and fittings you will be getting. And at what price the top-end stuff in the show home will set you back post-purchase.
7. Is Your Deposit Refundable?
Question: Name a way to make money out of building a condo block other than selling the units?
Answer: Get truckloads of people to be so overwhelmed at the prospect of a free iPad and “special price today only” that they leave deposits with your commission-hungry sales staff.
Believe or not, condo developers in Thailand make millions of Baht every year from non-refundable deposits.
First they lure you in with as much free water as you can drink and a few snacks and smiles from some extremely attractive “pretties” (before the feminists hang me for using that word, it's not something I made up. This is a real term used in Thailand for women who stand at sales events looking pretty).
Next they show you the amazing decor you won't be getting. And lastly, they tell you that the “today only” price is yours for a small 20,000 Baht deposit – if you “just sign here, sir”.
Do yourself a favour and make sure the deposit is refundable within 14 days (or other negotiated period).
Get this in writing. Or, if you can afford to throw away 20k, go ahead and enjoy another bottle of free water.
8. Is Your Dream Condo Complex Destined to be a Condotel?
A condo hotel, also known as a hotel-condo or a Contel, is a building, which is legally a condominium but which is operated as a hotel, offering short term rentals, and which maintains a Front Desk.
This little detail often comes as a post-build shock to those buying in the early stages of construction. It should be stipulated in the contract but is easily missed or conveniently left out.
So what's the problem?
Well, unless you fancy herds of tourists around the pool, coach parties gathering for trips in the lobby, sex tourists shaking the floorboards at all hours and the perpetual feeling of staying in a hotel, I'd enquire as to how many, if any, of the condos in your block are to be set aside as hotel/short rent rooms.
Maybe you aren't bothered about living in a condotel, but it's worth asking about, and you really should be told if units are to be allocated for this purpose.
9. How Do You Feel About the Thai Construction Industry?
Low pay, poor safety standards, lack of equipment = sub-standard building
Thus far, this post has been all about the reddies, the wonga, the Benjamins, the best bang for your buck and how to make sure you don't waste your hard-earned money on a condo that's not right for you.
But what of the workers who build the condos?
What about the unscrupulous developers who cut every possible corner, including worker safety and paying below the minimum wage to unregistered immigrant workers.
It's rife.
I've been observing the building of a massive condo development near my home for the last year.
Every day I see the workers shipped in from their campsite/worker digs in what look like WW2 trucks, stuffed over capacity and the workers forced to endure the black smoke pouring out of the exhaust.
It's a painful sight.
To their credit, these men and women have built an amazing two building complex with very few power tools.
Usually armed with little more than a hammer and chisel, they scale the structure dangerously, day and night, rain come shine, to erect condos they themselves will never be able to afford – not that they'd want to pay such an extortionate amount of money for a tiny space in the middle of the sky.
Thinking about it, knowing what the materials cost and what they get paid, they're probably having a good laugh at us for paying so much!
But seriously…
When you employ the cheapest labour you can get, based solely on the fact that the workers don't have the qualifications to ask for more, or the voice to be treated fairly, and you give them the bare minimum of tools, making it extremely difficult to do the job, it is, in my opinion, slave labour.
As for worker safety, you only need to look at the flip flop-blessed feet navigating the wooden scaffolding to make a judgement on how much the Thai construction industry values the lives of its workers.
I'm not trying to start some sort of “farang union” here, but I believe in fair.
The workers should be given better training, better tools, more money and be better protected by health and safety standards.
I don't know about you but it makes me feel uncomfortable seeing people treated this way, and a free Samsung Galaxy and a couple of bottles of water won't make me forget these facts.
Got a condo-buying experience to share? I'd love to hear about it below in the comments section.
More Tips for a Better Life in Thailand
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Last Updated on
john squire says
Oct 19, 2021 at 11:01 pm
Matt says
Oct 20, 2021 at 12:56 am
PeteBKK says
The owner of each condo unit pays common area fees whether they stay in the unit or not. If they fail to pay they will be charged interest on the arrears and will not be able to sell their condo until fully paid up. Some condos will also shut off water supply. All on these "rules" are stipulated in the "Condo Regs" that gets lodged with the Lands Dept when the condo gets registered with them. Be mindful however that it is the condo developer that writes these regs and many clauses can, and will be illegal to favour their interests not yours! They can even write that they will not be liable for common area fees! To get any obviously illegal or unfavourable clauses changed or deleted requires the consent of the Juristic Manager and/or a 3/4 majority vote in the AGM. For newly constructed condos the developer typically appoints their JM stooge and dominates the AGM as they will still own most of the floor area of the condo and therefore maintain majority voting rights. It's a Catch 22.
As mentioned for a newly constructed condos the developer must register the completed condo with the Lands Dept (to obtain title deeds etc) before commencing condo sales and therefore they will own all the unsold condo units. From the date of condo registration they then required by law to pay the stipulated common area fees for the unsold condos. HOWEVER typically the developer will set up a subsidiary company (under another name) who will manage the condo -at least initially - and be the body to bill and collect sinking fund and common area fees. So it's a case of the fox guarding the henhouse. ALSO, as the developer typically will own most of the condos at the start they have a majority of voting rights the AGM to 'install' their own people as juristic manager (the guy who signs all condo service contracts and legal docs in the name of the condo, including appointing an annual audit company) and 'install' condo directors who re typically employees in the developer's company. Other unit owners are none-the-wiser who these directors or managing company really are because they are all new neighbors and don't know one another.
Jan 12, 2022 at 1:44 pm
john squire says
Oct 19, 2021 at 10:51 pm
TheThailandLife says
Oct 20, 2021 at 12:02 am
john squire says
Aug 21, 2021 at 10:10 pm
Ken F says
In any case, you really have wonder how the former condo owner went for years without paying his maintenance fees.
Aug 22, 2021 at 10:04 am
john squire says
Aug 23, 2021 at 4:42 pm
Hugh says
Aug 24, 2021 at 6:45 pm
TheThailandLife says
Aug 24, 2021 at 6:49 pm
Ken F says
In any case, I’m not really worried about ever having a green pool because I would do the pool maintenance myself if this ever happened where I lived. And if management refused my offer to do it for free I would go ahead and do it in secret anyway.
Aug 25, 2021 at 6:04 am
Phuket says
Apparently very hard to take over the property. What they normally do is cut water.
Aug 24, 2021 at 5:38 am
John says
From reading your post and the pitfalls on buying a condo, do I take it you are suggesting renting rather than buying?
I am looking at Hua Hin rather than Bangkok but presume all of the above still applies?
Thanks
Jun 28, 2021 at 6:33 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jun 28, 2021 at 6:46 pm
Hugh says
Good to see Granit Xhaka actually putting a shift in, during the Euros. Shame about the last 3 years though.
Talking of Thai buildings etc...
When I was living 30 floors up at the Ivy Condos in Ratburana, my attention was drawn to the thickness (or narrowness) of the actual external wall.
All that protected us from the elements, and was holding us up, was about 60-65 mm of pre-cast concrete, and some very heavy single glazed window frames.
Although we had a sensational view across the river, and the night time BKK skyline was beautiful, I have to admit to being worried on more than 1 occasion when in bed at night thinking about the building wobbling.
Having seen the recent collapse of a similar sized building in the U.S.A on t.v recently, I'm amazed that similar incidents aren't common place in BKK / Thailand.
I'm sure Thai buildings stay safe more by luck than judgement.
Jun 29, 2021 at 6:36 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jun 29, 2021 at 7:00 pm
Ken F says
Still, I have to admit that I felt the same as you when I first came to Thailand and stayed in a high rise over 30 years ago and noticed how shoddy the workmanship was even in fairly new buildings. After all I could not help but wonder if that shoddy workmanship did not extend to the major structural components of the building as well. But the truth is buildings do not collapse any more often in Thailand then they do anywhere else in the world so its not really something that one should loose any sleep over.
Aug 25, 2021 at 3:40 am
Declan Flynn says
I am also looking at Hua Hin. My girlfriend is a real estate agent there so I feel more comfortable buying. You can get some good rental deals at the moment because of Covid, but hopefully that will be short term for everyone's sake.
Jul 15, 2021 at 10:27 pm
Matt says
Jul 15, 2021 at 11:29 pm
sidney leonard says
I have perused the all the comments above and would appreciate your, and other's, advice regarding the following. - I share your compunction about the working conditions of Thai (and immigrant) construction workers; in this regard do you know what real estate developers provide the best conditions for workers on their projects. Do well-established, reputable companies which are listed on the Thai stock exchange, like Sansiri and Raimon Land, adhere to higher standards, or are the deplorable conditions you describe so prevalent that there are no exceptions.
It is our intention to initially rent in the CBD near good transportation and all the other amenities this senior citizen requires, realizing that rent will be rather high, and then later perhaps consider purchasing a condo or villa, although, frankly, your admonitions regarding doing so are very dissuasive.
Regarding renting: Please comment about the NEW RESIDENTIAL TENANCY LAWS that became effective May 2018? And, Is it advisable to retain a lawyer to scrutinize a lease agreement?
Again, thank you for all the useful information you provide this expat to be.
Jun 28, 2021 at 10:21 am
JamesE says
Thailand is a land of relationships. Paper contracts are worth *exactly* what the paper cost to print them. Just like Texas. While the contract will spell out who is responsible for what, enforcement of those items may be difficult - for you - in the event of a dispute. So find a place (try several with short stays of a month or two) with a landlord/owner/mgmt company that you like and get along with and is responsive to your needs. Having a lawyer look at a contract would be almost as productive as getting a fortune-teller to do the same. But more expensive.
This is where renting in a development by a known company may pay off. They are very aware of the power of social media and word of mouth and the Big Mango is a highly competitive real estate market right now. They tend to have better project management, more professional staff, and better maintenance as a project ages. The flip-side is that an older building may be more affordable and, more importantly, larger than a lot of the new ones which are smaller than a typical hotel room.
Jun 28, 2021 at 10:51 pm
Robert Norris says
I have seen some info putting the costs at about 12%. I would like to take advantage of the situation at the moment
May 11, 2021 at 10:31 pm
TheThailandLife says
May 11, 2021 at 10:49 pm
Richard says
May 18, 2021 at 1:45 pm
Alf says
Apr 16, 2021 at 7:51 am
TheThailandLife says
Apr 16, 2021 at 5:00 pm
Frank Peeters says
May 09, 2021 at 4:32 pm
TheThailandLife says
May 10, 2021 at 3:57 pm
Phuket says
I contacted Sansiri on the subject since they advertised ownership in Chang Mai for one local through airbnb. As a sales pitch. Their reply aligned to this.
However the rules for the condiminium might disallow for multiple reasons.
Here is a wite up on same. https://www.thailand-property.com/blog/is-airbnb-legal-in-thailand
No affiliation
May 09, 2021 at 6:53 pm
TheThailandLife says
May 10, 2021 at 3:56 pm
Phuket says
Jul 16, 2021 at 7:04 am
Alf says
May 12, 2021 at 4:22 am
TheThailandLife says
May 12, 2021 at 4:34 pm
Hugh says
Good to know that the Premiership isn't decided on penalties, not that that's ever going to be an Arsenal issue, so you won't need to rush out and buy some pen. takers.
Regarding the Airbnb issue, when I was at Ivy Condos, there were big posters everywhere around the buildings explaining the Hotel law etc, and small posters displayed in the lifts.
However, it suggested / implied that it was those RENTING the apartments that were liable to prosecution rather than the Thai owners. At Ivy, the receptionist (paid scammer) issued the keys and door / lifts security swipe cards for the AirBNB clients, and blatantly took place.
I believe that the hotel law is in place to protect the Thai hotel industry, but a mainly blind eye is shown to the Thai condo owners.
It allows the local Police to fine the unknowing tourist who gets trapped by this scheme, so everyone's happy. It's not called Land of Smiles for nothing.
Jul 16, 2021 at 5:44 pm
Ian says
*except for the explanations of poor worker training and safety
Apr 07, 2021 at 8:13 pm
TheThailandLife says
Apr 07, 2021 at 8:42 pm
Ian Armstrong says
Apr 08, 2021 at 3:01 pm
Matt says
Jul 15, 2021 at 11:44 pm
Tim Mullin says
I'm kind of hoping that the dire warnings on build-quality and fixtures/fittings aren't as significant, when looking at a well-established condo, say 5 years old or more. You'd think any snagging problems would've been addressed - although I realise pool and mainteneance problems can be timeless!
Thanks again, Peter.
Feb 16, 2021 at 4:08 pm
TheThailandLife says
Feb 16, 2021 at 6:03 pm
Tim Mullin says
Feb 16, 2021 at 6:43 pm
Hugh says
I see Arsenal are up to 10th now.
Chelsea into 4th, automatic C.L place.
Luis and Will-iam-shy*e are still playing for Chelsea I guess.
Just to let you know that earlier today I received most of my deposit back from our condo management team, after my G.F had given notice to quit last November (although she moved out early January due to flight cancellations).
Either way, well outside he 30 days stated in the contract.
The condo in question was at Ivy Riverside, Ratburana, Bkk.
A nice residence, but full of Thai scammers running the show.
I could list a lot of shananagens which I witnessed / experienced, but whats the point?
However,as a legitimate service to the "F*****g caucasian farangs" (Thai Health Minister) could you add a specific area of your site which would identify the good and bad experiences of condo renting in Thailand?
A genuine service to Farang, warning them prior to "signing on the dotted line" as to the pitfalls of badly run condos due to scamming management
teams, submitted by the members of your site.
I found that Ivy Condo was constantly advertised on Air BNB, and the apartments being leased out for weekend sex. Despite being illegal in the Land of Scams. All the security building swipe cards and room keys being issued on behalf of the owners by the management staff. Bungs to the Local Police for what ever reasons by said same staff.
Farang being Billed for "damage" done, rather than due to Health & Safety / negligence issues by the Management staff.
Those found guilty of "dishonesty" can not be involved in Condo management by Thai Law. Allegedly.
I feel that someone needs to give a record (website) of genuine, honest accounts of their condo renting experiences, good or bad, out there for the protection of all us gullible Farang from the scamming little shy*tes who love to smile, when in Thailand.
Rant over.
Regards,
Hugh
P.S
Don't forget to shower.
We need to stop the spread of covid.
That will help.
Feb 16, 2021 at 7:32 pm
TheThailandLife says
Feb 17, 2021 at 12:21 am
Hugh says
Feb 17, 2021 at 8:40 pm
Ken F says
And of course I have noticed things like this in every place that I have ever lived in Thailand, including the first condo I ever rented long term. In that first place when I took my first shower I heard a loud pop and the hot water went out. When I removed the ceiling panel to take a look I noticed that the wires going from the electrical panel to the water heater were spliced in 3 or 4 places even though it was only about a 6-foot run. Not only that but there were not even any wire nuts on the wire connections. There was just bare wire twisted together and one of these was only about an inch from the water pipe, which means I could have easily been electrocuted while taking a shower. Just a few days after this some people from the property management office came by my apartment to check for water leaks because water was leaking into the unit below mine. Well I only had to wait a few days to find out where it had been coming from. One afternoon I heard a loud crash from next door and ran out to see what had happened. I saw my German next door neighbor in a bath towel standing in a pool of water and staring up at a huge hole in his ceiling (his front door was wide open for some reason). Apparently there had been a slow water leak in the ceiling of his apartment for some time and because of the tiled ceiling in the entry way and bathroom the water had just been pooling up there until the ceiling finally caved in under the weight of all that water. In any case, I soon noticed to my horror that water was still rushing out of the ceiling and was running right over the open faced electrical panel. The guy apparently did not speak English though because when I pointed to the electrical box and told him he might not want to be standing in that puddle of water barefoot under the circumstances he just continued to stand there in a daze like an idiot. I’m frankly amazed that he was not electrocuted that day.
The bottom line is, if I ever buy a condo in Thailand I will have it completely gutted and remodel it from scratch, doing all of the plumbing and electrical myself to make sure its done right.
May 03, 2021 at 12:32 pm
Rob says
Thanks
Jul 04, 2020 at 12:58 pm
Ralphie Boy says
Sep 30, 2020 at 6:28 pm
pramod k baniya says
May 07, 2020 at 8:36 pm
BARRY BOYCE says
Dont forget Thais only want new units, so you are limited and controlled under the 51% condo building rule.
Don't forget they hardly go up in value so even if you break even and get your money back in 10 years time you lost say 2% on the interest you could have got in the bank for the whole time.
Feb 26, 2020 at 4:46 am
Joe says
Apr 26, 2020 at 7:08 pm
Alboy says
Aug 21, 2020 at 6:56 am
Alboy says
I recently sold a 21 year old unit to a Thai investor after luckily renting it out for 13 straight years. I have to say it was the worst investment I have ever made and the luckiest. I bought the unit at 72 baht to the pound and sold it at 39. I took a 16% loss in Thai baht after 13 years and made a 40% gain on the sale in GBP plus 13 years rent on top.
Key point. After 13 years and at a time when the Thai economy was doing ok prices of old units had barely risen. Would I ever invest in Thailand again. Only if there is a massive recession and properties are selling for buttons.
Aug 21, 2020 at 6:51 am
rex potter says
Apr 11, 2019 at 11:02 am
Hugh says
Please name and shame this place.
Air BnB has ruined many a fine establishment.
Where is this place?
Some reputable condo owners will pursue that unlawful behaviour through the Thai courts.
So, Name and Shame
Apr 12, 2019 at 12:53 am
Craig says
I negotiated a 25% drop in rent and will move out at the end of the contract, it's still OK but the grass has gone, it's now a building site and over the next 12 months I won't see most of the lake.
But the owner's income is now 25% under his planned income, and will never reach that again having lost part of the stunning views his condo had. If he drops his rental price by another 25% I might stay another year, I like the area, but 50% under his planned rental income, that's no longer a good return. Actually he's lucky, 2 condos in this building are now empty because the renters have left due to the predicted building noise, so he's better off to some extent, he's still getting something.
Areas change, we all know from experiences in our home countries, all it takes is a grotty family moving into the area, an old church hall to become a drugs rehab centre, or the field next to our street becoming an affordable housing project, and the idyll we had is an impossible to sell nightmare.
Renting allows you to move with the times, so I'll throw away my money by renting nice places every year or two.
Jan 29, 2019 at 12:43 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 29, 2019 at 7:09 pm
Murick says
Apr 15, 2020 at 6:57 am
Lana Fox says
Jan 15, 2019 at 6:27 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 16, 2019 at 7:12 pm
Blair says
Apr 29, 2020 at 2:27 pm
Matt says
Jul 19, 2021 at 2:14 am
Ken F says
Jul 19, 2021 at 5:03 am
Matt says
Jul 19, 2021 at 9:43 am
Ken F says
As for the Thai real estate market being in a bubble that is about to collapse, well, I have been hearing that exact same thing for the past 20 years now so its hard for me to put much stock in that belief – although there does seem to be a very real bubble here in the USA at the moment. And of course its worth noting that the price-to-rent ratio is well over 30 in Phuket at the moment– twice that of Pattaya – and a high number is often indicative of a bubble. For those who are unfamiliar, the price-to-rent ratio is a tool that is used to determine if it is better to buy or rent at a given point in time in a given area. In the USA I believe that anything below 16 signals that its definitely better to buy than rent – Los Angeles, Ca is currently near 40 and San Francisco, Ca is over 50. The number is arrived at by dividing the median home price by the median annual rent. So if the cost-to-rent ratio is 30 in Phuket then a place that rents for 16,500 Baht per month should be priced at about 6 million Baht. And if this number for an individual piece of real estate is way off the average – which I see often in Pattaya and Phuket – then it means that the rent is either way too high or too low, or the asking price is way to high or too low. Sometimes I think people in Thailand just pull their rental prices and asking prices out of their rear ends rather than by carefully researching the comps in the area.
Anyway, if I had $200,000 set aside for a retirement condo in Phuket and I decided to invest in the stock market instead – and assuming I get the average 10% yearly return over the long run – I would have about 1.4 million dollars at the end of 20 years time. And even when I subtract the $132,000 I would have paid in rent over 20 years for the same place, that still leaves me with well over a million dollars. So, the question is would that $200,000 condo in Phuket (200k plus condo fees) now be worth over a million dollars. Somehow I don’t think so.
Still if I can find a fixer-upper that is WAY under-priced I might still consider the buying and remodeling option. Who knows.
By the way, I actually traveled around quite a bit by road when in Thailand, particularly when staying in places like Chang Mai. In Phuket however all my favorite beaches and favorite free diving spots are right there on the island so I did not really feel the need to take many road trips. Also, way back when, when I first started coming to Thailand the road between Bangkok and Phuket was not considered to be that safe. Apparently in places where the highway gets close to the border with Myanmar there used to be bandits that would rob bus passengers or others at gunpoint. In any case, I did often consider riding to Krabi rather than taking a boat but I just never got around to it. And its probably for the best because if my then girlfriend had gotten into one of her moods along the way I would have been tempted to just leave her in the middle of nowhere.
Jul 23, 2021 at 11:23 am
Arnizzle says
Jan 12, 2019 at 3:10 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 13, 2019 at 4:16 am
Hugh says
Does any farang REALLY think seriously about "investing" in Thai property? making the big bucks that they fail to do in their home country?
Surely the reason is just to offer stability / security / commitment to their new found life / love(s)?
If any one is serious about making an income to any degree from being a Landlord, then Thailand is surely not the place. Try being a Landlord in London for example. No "discriminatory" farang laws there for buying property either.
However, due to the strict rules here, we can enjoy the low / value for money renting costs compared to our home countries rates.
It all appears to be horses for courses.
Jan 13, 2019 at 12:34 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 14, 2019 at 3:40 am
Hugh says
Lets do the maths.
The condo to which I refer is at a "bargain" price of 1.2m thb.
Without spending a hal'penny to replace the existing awful interior "design" or upgraded the dodgy existing plumbing arrangements, and assuming I rented the property out immediately (the going rate being 5,500 thb a month), if I spent nothing on the usual "wear and tear" issues for the very long but forseeable future on behalf of the tenant/s, I would not see any return on my "investment" for at least 18.18 years.
Statistically, I'll be dead by then.
Thats not an investment. Thats an act of charity.
Or I could just spend my money in a much lesser time in Thailand and have a really great time.
A REAL estate investor??????
Arsenal supporter more like.
Full of dreams. Thats kinda cute, but just dreams. Pipe dreams.
Jan 16, 2019 at 11:11 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 17, 2019 at 2:06 am
Arnizzle says
Jan 17, 2019 at 3:14 pm
Hugh says
I feel we have different opinions on what a good deal actually is.
Personally, I don't see renting my property out in Thailand would be worth doing if it is purely to make money.
5.5% off@ck all is not enough to bother about.
It would take over 20 years to realistically make enough gains to have a good weekend out in Thailand. A hotel can cost more than that for 1 night.
But perhaps its not your hard earned cash that you want to invest in such a scheme / scam.
Jan 17, 2019 at 7:51 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 17, 2019 at 8:06 pm
Hugh says
From my own recent experience though, its very difficult, even if it's allowed, to transfer money back to your account outside Thailand, i.e International Transfer. Farang put their money into Thailand, Farang do Not take it out.
Also, there are strict restrictions on getting money into Thailand to pay for the condo. In my recent experience I will retain any serious cash I have in my U.K accounts, and then comply with the Thai rules and regulations involved, as and when and if. It's the legitimate Thai response to money laundering I'm informed. Which made me laugh when you think of all the P.L & EFL clubs which are now Thai owned. Do as we say, not as we do i feel. But that's for another day.....
Jan 17, 2019 at 8:22 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 18, 2019 at 6:33 pm
Hugh says
Similar advice was also given by a senior sales rep at a new Lumpini build we visited recently.
Jan 18, 2019 at 6:45 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 18, 2019 at 6:47 pm
Ralphie Boy says
Sep 30, 2020 at 6:51 pm
M says
Feb 16, 2019 at 11:15 pm
Alboy says
Aug 21, 2020 at 7:04 am
Hugh says
I'm in a position to perhaps buy a condo within the block which my g.f, son, and I rent.
it would make good financial sense from saving the rents etc, and could be a sort of investment for our boy.
BUT..................................
I believe most Thais are up for a bit of dishonesty / fraud if it goes their way.
Therefore...................
Can any one recommend a true and honest solicitor / Lawyer in the BKK area? from their own experiences, not because they own / work there.
Has anyone tried the Siam Legal company of Solicitors, also available in U.K and other places outside of Thailand.
Any good experiences of them to tell?
Any advice ( even DON'T DO IT ) would be appreciated.
Nov 02, 2018 at 10:50 pm
TheThailandLife says
Nov 05, 2018 at 10:05 pm
Hugh says
Thanks for your prompt reply.
I just felt I needed re-assurance from someone more experienced in the "Thai Culture" way of doing things than relying on my 1st attempt alone.
I'm glad to hear your positives about Siam Legal.
With regards your further questions:-
1) I f***8g hope not. But life can be cruel. Expect the worst.
2) Knowing these c***'s, NEVER. Just do the maths yourself. Accommodation is just SOOOOO cheap here.
3) Desirable?????? Please define.........
4) My son's long term plan seems to be to carry on destroying all things around him by smashing them on the floor. So why change?
The U.K Government Racism Policy however, is to keep him (and his kind) in Thailand.
5) The block is about 10 years old. Local builder I'm assured, and like most Thai condos, could do with some T.L.C but that said, it'll do.
I believe that there will always be more of an "entry level" condo demand than a numpties rich bollocks condo.
And don't forget, the sky train is a'commin' to these pards. Yeeee Hi.....
In15 - 20 years time it will look complete shyte.
Thus blending in with the rest of BKK, a massive selling point I'm sure.
The plan is that if / when I go, my son and his mum can stay in their home / local area / school and not need to worry about being kicked out of their home while dealing with my untimely / belated demise.
That's it really.
We talk about the g.f getting a Thai mortgage in a few years, and getting a house / land somewhere nice, outside of BBk. We both like H.H or Cha Am.
But we need to get rid of her Debts / loans.
So this might give her a rent free, bigger sq. meters housing while breaking free of the Thai system of Gov. Control / yer f*****ed for life policy, from her early teens. I believe this is a Team Effort.
Or I could just play on her emotions and really rack up the rent. Who knows?
I'm told "never let them know you're worth more to them dead, than still being alive". A Leeds United manager lasts a lot longer they say.
Thanks again for the Siam Legal heads up.
Remember, There's only one real football club in North London.
Unless you're counting Barnet.
Nov 05, 2018 at 11:03 pm
TheThailandLife says
Nov 05, 2018 at 11:11 pm
Hugh says
Barnet on the other hand..........
Or Tottenham?
Nov 06, 2018 at 12:58 am
TheThailandLife says
Nov 06, 2018 at 1:12 am
Hugh says
"Based". Exactly. Wheres the history from?????
Sarrrfffff Lundun.
You're just trying to split hairs.
Dream on.
Next you'll be saying Wayne "bollockschops" Rooney will rise to play for England again.
Fantasy Football. Not the real MaCoy.
Nov 06, 2018 at 1:20 am
TheThailandLife says
Nov 06, 2018 at 1:23 am
Alboy says
The UK government is not racist but their immigration policy is a disgrace. It used to be if you were married, nothing could stop you bringing your wife here but now it's an absolute headache.
Aug 21, 2020 at 7:12 am
Gerardus says
Sep 17, 2018 at 8:55 am
Steve says
Aug 11, 2018 at 9:06 pm
Orchid says
Sep 01, 2018 at 10:05 pm
Alan says
Alan
Oct 04, 2018 at 5:55 pm
Arnold says
Sep 07, 2018 at 3:35 am
Irene says
Jun 14, 2018 at 1:51 pm
Andy says
Jun 14, 2018 at 8:02 am
Dave O'Sullivan says
Wonderful insights in this whole document.
regards Dave.
May 09, 2018 at 5:03 pm
TheThailandLife says
May 10, 2018 at 8:08 pm
Neil Fleming says
Jun 16, 2018 at 12:50 am
Vicki Coghlan says
May 01, 2018 at 12:11 pm
Neil Fleming says
Jun 13, 2018 at 4:45 pm
Neil Fleming says
Worried about the sake of thai workers keep your drunk lads and dirty old men from using their slight economic advantage to abuse young girls who come from poverty.
Jun 13, 2018 at 5:06 pm
Barry BOYCE says
Apr 25, 2018 at 12:27 am
Ryan says
Mar 16, 2018 at 10:11 pm
Tomas says
I must say you helped me think. But as you mentioned, I am in a passionate phase about buying something in Thailand.
I want to diverse my risk, though. I am now looking for some partners and investors to purchase few condos in Pattaya. Obviously, its very hard to guess which way the market is going, but this place seems to me with some potential. Paradoxly, the prices are the same as in Bangkok, after a small research.
For me, its just a reason to have some kind of a business with Thailand to have a legitimate reason to keep coming :). What do you, guys, think? :)
Have a great day,
Tom, Czech rep.
Feb 18, 2018 at 3:33 pm
John says
My advice DO NOT buy off the plan but only re sales ( ie with Chanote - tile deed)
No title deed means Yhe property under this law is still the develper and if he descided to evict you expect the local authorities to do very little .
Very distressing experience that had left me bitter about a country I so loved .
BUYER BEWARE is all I can say !!!!
May 13, 2018 at 1:33 pm
Akina says
Feb 11, 2018 at 1:09 pm
chris says
Jan 22, 2018 at 10:16 am
Phuket says
If you can get an retirement visa and make sure you buy an freehold the risk of you losing it is very low or not existing. Selling it and moving the money out of Thailand I can't answer upon but I am sure there is multiple resources and stories around. You might seek advice of got legal help on a site like Thaivisa.
Freehold ownership is very strong generally which also creates issues. One of my friends lives in a condominium built by San Siri and there is multiple owners there not paying the common fee. Leading to savings and lack of maintenance. This in turn leads to market value decrease.
Good luck with your plans but as stated it might be more profitable to rent in some locations rather then buying. Your money might make give a better return invested.
Jan 22, 2018 at 10:00 pm
John says
But only RE SALE properties with Chanote / tittle deed without one disputed payong for your propert it remains legally the developers - your at his mercy .!!!
Good luck ! Beauatiful country and people left me sad and grieving that guys had happened and frankly gob smacked how little the Thai authorities did for us .
May 13, 2018 at 1:38 pm
Pamela says
I am urgently selling my Bangkok condo at Sukhumvit at a big discount. Reason being the transfer is due and I have financing issues. Contact me ASAP at Line ID: wuffruff
P.S. I am not an agent. Just someone who need to sell her condo urgently.
May 21, 2018 at 3:55 am
Valdo says
Jan 01, 2018 at 6:17 pm
Phuket says
The price with basic furniture was around 40k THB/sqm and I put around 100k THB on making it ready to sublet. My point being it was very cheap for the area and there is a resale market toward domestic and expats. Value increase is around 8% per year and my occupancy is giving ROI over 5% excluding setting of a few percent for maintenance fees/renovation.
Would I invest more after my experience? I don't know I have seen some areas having their resale value go the wrong way. The right price I might consider and if the local/expat demand is high enough. But this would never be money I need for the future. The risk is to high for being my retirement plan!
Dec 03, 2017 at 1:00 pm
TheThailandLife says
Dec 03, 2017 at 6:46 pm
Phuket says
Jan 15, 2018 at 11:32 pm
Alboy says
For example I buy a property for 5m thb and rent it for 250k per annum (after fees and maintenance to be generous). Looks like R.O.I 5%.
You then can only sell the property for 4.5m and the exchange rate has turned against you. All of a sudden your R.O.I is minimal.
Always operate on a risk v reward basis. Very few people stay more than 10 years in Thailand. You can rent a decent place for 20k a month x 10 years = 2.4m baht. Considering this sum well invested would almost cover your rent it is madness to buy unless you have Thai family
Aug 21, 2020 at 7:36 am
Afromini says
Me and my husband are about to buy a condo in BKK since we lived here for 2years so far and we both liked this place to live for next 5-6 years at least. So we decided to buy a condo instead of renting. I have a question here, here are two options that I'm thinking at the moment.
Option A:
- 10 min walking from BTS On nut.
- Built in 4 years ago
- Room is new, no one pre-owned. means we need to buy it from the developer. Fully furnished with all nice new washing machine, induction, aircon, fridge etc
- 2 bedroom, 2bath, 68sq.m
- 6.3MB
Option B:
- 10 min walking from BTS Prompong
- Right near the Emporium
- Built in 30 years ago
- Building itself is old (of course), room is nice, clean and huge.
- Half furnished, but most of them aren't my style so I will buy new funitures like couch, table, fridge etc.
- 2 bed 2 bath, 140sqm
- 6.6 MB
Which one sounds better to buy and live in? (And maybe resale in 5-7 years)
I personally love the big space, since I'm kinda not loving TH's small living room size. But old building really makes me re-think about reselling. Cause by the time we sell it back it willl be almost 40 years old building. But the huge merit is it's right at the Emporium!!!
Please let me know if you guys have any thoughts that we need to consider. Thanks a lot.
Ps - is there any chance new devleoper bought an old condo to redevelopment? If so, what will the co-owners get? Is there any case like this?
Nov 28, 2017 at 11:16 am
TheThailandLife says
Nov 28, 2017 at 5:59 pm
Paul says
Dec 25, 2017 at 11:41 am
Alpha says
Compare what your money is doing renting vs owning. Renting is not necessarily throwing money away. In certain cases, renting is the smarter choice.
Nov 15, 2017 at 6:14 am
JK says
I bought my first unit in Bkk 15 years ago and maintenance has been good and value of the property has got up considerably. Lived there those years by myself and no problems at all. Unit is now rented out, still no problems...
Nov 06, 2017 at 10:58 am
Marcin Kiss says
Nov 03, 2017 at 12:45 pm
Mike Baker says
My advice is NEVER buy in a country whos language you do not speak and write fluently. You will always rely on someone else and that person will not have your best interest at heart or take the care you would.
Renting gives you far more choice. Often you can invest your money to pay for all or most of the rent. You can move when you tire of the area or the neighbours. You can upsize or downsize as required. For the most part you need not concern yourself with problems arising from poor workmanship.
But one thing I have learned is that even when renting you can get (temporarily) stuck in an environment you did not know about when viewing - like noisy neighbours; banging doors; a hotel with new guests (problems) every few days; noise from outside you didnt think would get into your space. At least after your rental period you can move easily and cheaply and try again.
Having tried a cheap hotel with a pool and finding out the owners refused to maintain it or the pool and now being in a new building but one that is occupied by inconsiderate door bangers, next time I will look for a detached house.
Oct 30, 2017 at 7:46 pm
TheThailandLife says
Oct 31, 2017 at 4:03 am
Mark Hughes says
Oct 21, 2017 at 9:44 pm
TheThailandLife says
Oct 23, 2017 at 5:37 pm
Rob says
Dec 25, 2017 at 4:36 pm
john says
The writer of this article forgot to mention you have to pay maintenance fee every year and sinking fund plus you got wear & tear etc.
The total cost of your unit of 40 square meter per year will be roughly around the Baht50.000 ,- per year to buy a unit of 40 sq meter will cost you +/- 3,4 million instead of buying a condo you buy Thai bonds interest rate 4% per year
will bring in an other Baht136.000,- plus the Baht50.000,- you saved =Baht186.000,- divided by 12 months = Baht15500,- per month for that kind of money you can rent a beautiful 40 sq meter unit !
No transfer tax at the land office no corruption etc..
With those bonds you stay very liquid push on the button and your bonds are sold selling your apartment is a nightmare it can take years plus you have to pay minimal 5% commission plus (7% vat) to the real estate agent and you have to pay lawyer fee and tax at the land office plus some coffee money etc,
selling your bonds will cost you 0,3% transfer fee .
Or you buy shares with minimal 5,5 % dividend payment at the SET of Thailand Tax on dividend is only 10%
It makes no sense to own property as a foreigner in Thailand .
Any doubt check some websites of real estate agents often you see the selling price and rental price of the property when you calculate the rental return % on his investment it is often between the 1,5 % and 3,5 % and still has to pay the maintenance fee and tear & wear out of it .
Go google and check the numbers by your self !
Buying property in Thailand is waisting your money big time
though buying shares or bonds in Thailand is pretty good and very transparent
Most of the companies at the SET got the annual reports in English as well
good luck
Oct 03, 2017 at 12:25 pm
Marcin Kiss says
Sinking fund only when you moved in
Wear and tear you get everywhere you live
Without that knowledge I wander how you go through your life?
Nov 03, 2017 at 12:50 pm
Alpha says
Wear and tear happens in every country. But if you have ever lived long enough in even a quality condo in Bangkok, you know that wear and tear in Thailand is not quite the same as in the UK for example.
Unless you are Thai, you are investing in a market which is stacked against you. Which means all of the considerations that apply in any fair market apply even more in an unfair market like Thailand.
John is smart. I'd think twice about 'wandering' how he has gotten through life.
Nov 15, 2017 at 6:23 am
Andy says
Thank for your frank opinions & views but I am going to committed myself on 09/08/2017 for a resale property (10years ) in Bangkok .
I hope the circumstances will change after 2-3 decades of disappointment investors has experienced .
Andy
Aug 07, 2017 at 6:34 pm
Omri says
Any suggestions?
Thank you!
Aug 03, 2017 at 10:18 pm
Daria says
Aug 07, 2017 at 8:50 am
daria says
Aug 21, 2017 at 2:35 pm
Daria says
Nov 03, 2017 at 6:34 pm
Theo says
May 11, 2017 at 2:01 pm
Rider says
the same mentality that uses cheap labor in construction of the buildings is the mentality that is applied when repairing and maintaining the condo property.
That nice pool that looked so good when you bought the place will be green, slimy and not operational with in a couple of years. Elevators, landscaping, water leaks, electrical wiring. Just look around at existing building and look how they are repaired.
That will be your investment in a few years.
May 09, 2017 at 2:03 pm
Mark says
House prices in Australia are 25 five times the price and China is buying up plenty
100 grand condo in Australian bucks is cheap you pay for what u get
Prices will rise in Thailand as world is getting harder to survive for middle income workers in western world
So over time people take up cheaper option so u get a class rise
Pattaya now has Pattaya central very five star western shopping mall with Hilton hotel on top
It's the start of change so you get compition in quality
Thailand is a stunning good investment
In saying that every country have good and bad buys
That's life fools lose there money
Apr 15, 2017 at 7:42 am
emditht says
To cut it short I was lucky enough to live in a strategic area for 5 years without paying any rental but using my capital that in a bank account would have yielded nearly zero interest unless opting for high risk investments. Now I'm struggling in making a decision if to buy again or rent in a quite area along the Chonburi coast. Reading your well thought analysis was very helpful but i believe you missed an important point. Sovereign debts and big banks all over the world are struggling to stay afloat, bubbles are ready to pop... who knows when a financial storm will surprise us and what the destiny of our money sitting in a bank will be.... Let's remember that bail-in regulations are already enforced in many countries around the world and i don't buy the tale of the Deposit Guarantee Schemes working in such a gloomy scenario. Houses, land, cash, gold and bitcoins are alternative safe heavens.
Perhaps a wise real estate investment in first world countries would meet a safer legal environment but considering I live here in Thailand maintenance costs and taxes would be prohibitive for a so far away second home.
Of course the ideal scenario for a real estate investor would be to wait until the condo bubble pops and you promptly step in with cash in your hands, but who knows if and when it'll happen... 5, 10, 15 years?
So my point is it's fine to save your money avoiding expensive rentals and buying a unit in a condo in Thailand only if the answer to the following points is YES
- you like the area and the view very much
- the location is strategic,
- the money going to be invested in a condo is not a conspicuous part of your assets
- your exchange rate is not at toxic levels (for example I'd avoid at all cost converting EUR or GBP into THB right now)
- the condo is quite new and the quality is acceptable,
- the builder is well known and reliable,
- you definitely live in it and don't have plans to rise a big family
- you won't exceed 5 years of ownership so to avoid the final deterioration of the building and get your money back entirely,
- there are quality locals living in it, so in the future not only farangs will be willing to buy your unit but locals too
Mar 12, 2017 at 3:32 pm
Stephen says
Jun 19, 2017 at 7:09 pm
PatrickB says
I purchased an off-plan condo and the transfer is 2-months away. I am trying to decide if I want to complete the sale or sell my contract, if that is even possible.
Aug 16, 2017 at 9:20 pm
Paul says
Dec 25, 2017 at 2:24 pm
Daria says
Feb 16, 2017 at 6:06 pm
Jamie says
I'm Malaysian and would like to buy a new condo in Bangkok which is located 2-3 mins walk from the BTS station.
Appreciate your advice.
Thank you.
Jan 10, 2017 at 1:06 pm
catherine says
Feb 01, 2017 at 1:44 pm
Eric says
Dec 20, 2016 at 2:47 am
Ken says
After frequently visiting Pattaya over 5 years and living near Pattaya for two, I have come to the realization of 80% of what you have mentioned , however the high end Bangkok hi jinks were a surprise but its "yeah , of course" moment though.
The one point I want to mention is that Pattaya isn't the place it used to be, the low tourist numbers reflect this. I visit the big smoke of Patts many times a year and each time the numbers have declined, and as I sit in my Pattaya Tai hotel tonight I'm wondering how all these local people are coping with the heavy loss of numbers, I do not want to bang on too much about what I feel needs to be fixed but I will say the beach is not exactly postcard quality , and like most of the problems implementing simple plans will do wonders, eg how difficult is it to have work parties to go up and down that beach to keep it picturesque ?
.
Ps I realize that the Russian folk have all but gone, and the world has had a financial battering lately and that the real season is Nov-March ( Which I don't believe. The season use to be all year round busy with the Xmas period being unbearably busy)
Also , its cheap as chips to fly to Utapau via KL now,
However, local government and new police chief are implenting new strategies to sort things out , they need too with Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia opening up.
I personally think that Pattaya has unfortunately run its course. But I wish the city and all the locals all the best.
My 2 cents is,
property bubble pop +tourist bubble pop = ?????
Sep 17, 2016 at 11:52 pm
Ken says
Anyway, I can’t argue the fact that Pattaya has changed considerably over the years, as do all cities. It wasn’t the same in 2000 as it was in 1990 when I first went there. And it had changed a bit more by 2010 when I was there last. Still, if I were there today I’m not sure I would think that it has necessarily changed for the worse or that it has “run its course”.
Obviously it’s hard on business owners when tourism is down but the numbers pretty much always recover. If you look at the yearly tourist numbers for Thailand over the past 30 years you will notice that every now and again there is a down year but that those number always quickly recover. And although tourist numbers have supposedly been down in Pattaya in particular this past year I’m pretty sure that those numbers will also recover before long (not that I would necessarily invest there right now). Sure, the types of tourists and their nationalities will change over time but in the long haul the overall numbers should still always increase. And even WAY down the road (after I’m dead and gone) when Thailand’s economy is doing so well that there is no longer an abundant supply of cheap prostitutes, I think that there will still be plenty of tourists in Thailand, and even in Pattaya.
I guess I’m just a bit less pessimistic than most expats when it comes to Pattaya, and Thailand in general. For the past 20-years I have been listening to people saying that “the party is over” in Thailand and that everything is going to hell in a hand basket. With every passing decade people just always think that the previous decade represented the “good old days” and they lament the fact that those days are gone forever. And by the way, those same people have been talking for decades about places like Laos and Vietnam possibly stealing a large percentage of the Thai tourist away but that really hasn’t happened yet.
So things will always change. But as person who embraces change rather than resisting it I always adjust well to new and changing environments. Although, I guess only time will tell what I think of Thailand when I go back.
As for the Beach in Pattaya I’m afraid it’s never really been what I would call post card quality. From what I have heard however I understand that the garbage problem on the beaches is a lot worse than it used to be. Although I would imagine that this is only really a problem in summer time as this is when the currents are most likely to bring all that sea trash ashore. In any case, if I ever get back there I will certainly do my part to help pick up the trash on the beaches.
Sep 19, 2016 at 7:20 pm
Carlos says
Sep 14, 2016 at 8:54 pm
TheThailandLife says
Sep 15, 2016 at 11:48 am
Salty Bugger says
They have finished the building now but have a few rooms still available. Not sure why a place like this in this location wouldn't be sold out.
Any thoughts advice wellcome.
Oct 02, 2016 at 8:42 pm
Gerard says
Sep 10, 2016 at 3:11 pm
Ian says
As a real estate investor who owns condos in Bangkok, I can relate to alot of the points made and to the comments posted. However, I think there is a big cultural difference in the way Westerners and Asians approach property investment. Westerners tend to focus only on returns (rental yield & capital gain) while alot of Asians (especially those from developing economies) think of property as a vehicle for wealth storage for the next generation. This is particularly true with Thais who have a "buy and hold forever" mentality.
What is not mentioned here is the lack of alternative investment options to property. Investing in Thai equities is not really attractive (smallish capital market compared to other bigger regional bourses and not to mention pathetic corporate governance) while there is also a dearth of investment products on offer by the financial institutions here. I think this is really the key driver behind the condo boom as there is alot of pent up investment demand from wealthy Thais (especially wealthy upcountry folks who would like to own a piece of Bangkok). Historically, land has been the asset of choice for Thais to own. With the new Land and Buildings tax, many landowners have been trading in land for condos.
Sep 03, 2016 at 9:44 am
Ken says
What I personally cannot figure out is why condos are so expensive in places like Pattaya - especially when you consider how poorly laid out, decorated, and furnished they are on average when compared to condos in Bangkok. After all, there is such a huge surplus of condos on the market in Pattaya right now that I would think we would be seeing fire sale prices but this does not seem to be the case at all. But then again, as it seems that absolutely nobody in Pattaya actually buys a condo there to live in themselves I guess the owners don’t care how long their properties sit on the market unsold because these units will always still bring in some income in the meantime. And with the growing popularity of services like Airbnb, Pattaya condo owners can reach a much broader pool of potential renters than ever before.
Anyway, as someone who seems to have some knowledge of the Thai real estate market I’m curious what you think it will look like five years from now.
Sep 04, 2016 at 1:11 pm
Ian says
Thank you for your comments on my post.
If you think the vacancy rates are high in Thailand, it's nothing compared to China (which can be explained once again about the unique Asian cultural mindset that is applied to buying property).
As for your comments on Pattaya, I agree. The condo market there is a total dog and I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. For the most part within say the past 5 to 7 years, Pattaya projects have been geared towards the foreign buyer market - namely the Russian and Chinese - and we all know what happened to the Russian Ruble a few years back that resulted in a mass forfeit of deposits on new condos by Russian buyers.
Regarding your comment on the lack of fire sales, they are extremely hard to find and the oversimplified answer has to do with Thai culture and the Thai banking sector. Generally speaking, Thais would rather lose money than to lose face, so no self respecting Thai will want to exit at a steep loss in fear that others will find out about it. Deals like this can be done, but you have to be extremely sensitive in the way you handle such negotiations where the seller is Thai. As for the Thai banking sector, Thai banks enjoy one of the largest lending spreads world wide (lending rate minus savings rate), so this allows them to shore and buffer their balance sheets in the event of any loans (mortgages) turning sour. As you know, there is a weak enforcement culture / rule of law here in Thailand, so it is very time consuming and costly for the banks to chase borrowers (including both property developers and buyers) to make good on payment, so banks will simply take as much upfront as possible (loan origination charges, etc) together with imposing high interest rates on borrowers.
As for the future of the real estate market five years from now, I am still bullish (there is a reason that this country is called 'Teflon Thailand'). Thais are an extremely patriotic posse who are fully invested in their country (the proportion of overseas investment by Thais is still extremely low when compared to how much they invest locally), so there will always be underlying demand from locals. Thus, if you want to play the condo market in Thailand, I'd stay away from markets like Pattaya where demand is largely driven by foreigners.
Sep 05, 2016 at 10:46 am
Ken says
As for Bangkok real estate it might indeed be a good investment right now but I have not really researched the matter much as I don’t have a lot of surplus cash lying around at the moment. And as I mentioned in a previous post, when I retire in 5 years or so I will be buying a condo to live in rather than just purely as an investment property. The reason for this is that I will need to remodel whatever I get to suit my high-end modern tastes and I can only do this if I am the owner. I could probably find some rentals in my price range that I like in Bangkok of course but I don’t really want to live there. You see I’ve spent most of my life living on the coast here in California and so I need to be near a beach somewhere when I retire. Sure, I absolutely LOVED living in Tokyo for 5-years but I was also working at the time and I was going out to nightclubs almost every night of the week as well. As a retiree though with no job to go to everyday I just can’t see living even in Tokyo, much less Bangkok.
If I were to invest in the Thai real estate market however I do agree that Bangkok would probably be a better choice than Pattaya. As far as living in Pattaya is concerned however I have to say that I don’t absolutely hate the place the way nearly everyone else seems to. In fact, I actually enjoyed living there. It wasn’t nearly as nice as living in Phuket was of course but I really liked how close it is to Bangkok. And this was important because I was dating a LOT back then and I liked the fact that girls from Bangkok could easily and cheaply come to visit me on weekends. Although, by the time I retire I might just look too old to have any chance with any of the girls that I would actually want to date, so my proximity to Bangkok might not be as important in the future.
Sep 07, 2016 at 9:08 am
Brian says
Sep 17, 2016 at 3:22 pm
Ian Khoo says
Lumpini Place is a mid-end condo brand by the LPN property development group which focuses on the mass segment condo market. The developer is publically listed on the SET and has a good reputation in this market segment. The developer is also known for providing excellent after sales services (juristic management services) which is not that common since most developers prefer to focus on development (property management is an after thought due to relatively skinny margins). My wife has a unit in a Lumpini Place condo in Bangkok which is being rented out to an expat couple.
As for Udon Thani, your resale market will be limited to locals who live there. There is massive condo oversupply in upcountry markets and I personally would never invest in a condo outside of Bangkok (which has the highest liquidity by far but it's still not easy to resale!).
Sep 17, 2016 at 9:20 pm
Ken says
In any case, I was just wondering why every article I have ever read on buying condos in Thailand is geared towards people buying one for investment purposes or as a vacation property and not to actually live in year round. Doesn’t anyone buy condos to live in anymore? And if not, why? After all, as best as I can figure, it would cost me twice as much to rent a condo for 25 years than to buy one outright. Of course my main reason for wanting to buy is that it would be virtually impossible for me to find a reasonably priced place to rent in Phuket or Pattaya that has the layout and ultra modern interior design that I simply must have in a place (maybe in Bangkok). And even when buying I would have to completely gut and remodel anything I’m likely to find. I have seen some nice modern designs in some upcoming projects but frankly I would never buy into an unfinished property in Thialnd, as I cannot trust that the finished product will look anything like the computer animations, or that it would even get done at all. Also I can get more square footage for my money by buying something in an older building and then remodeling it myself. I just cant see the downside to buying a place to retire in rather than renting but if you can think of some cons to buying for someone in my situation please let me know as retirement is only a few years away.
By the way, thanks for bringing up Faulty Towers. I had almost forgotten about that show but it used to be one of my favorites way back when. Another old favorite of mine from your side of the pond was “Yes, Minister”. Absolutely hilarious.
Apr 17, 2016 at 12:54 pm
TheThailandLife says
Apr 17, 2016 at 3:56 pm
Ken says
As for buying a condo, my situation is that I did not properly plan for my retirement here so now I will have no choice really but to retire in Thailand. And seeing as how I have spent most of my life living near the coast I do not want to change that now, which of course leaves out Bangkok.
My first choice was Phuket but that might prove to be too expensive. My second choice was Pattaya and it has the advantage of being much closer to Bangkok and, lets face it, all the really great women are in Bangkok. When I lived in Pattaya before it was very easy to have Bangkok girls come down and visit me on the weekends. Or I could go up and visit them for our dates. And if things got serious then we could decide to relocate closer to one another. So it’s kind of the best of both worlds in a way. And for some reason I still have a real fondness for Pattaya despite the fact that I quit the bar scene long ago.
You would think that I would want to live in a big city like Bangkok seeing as how the best 5 years of my life were spent in Tokyo, another huge metropolis. But for some reason I just cannot see living there when I have no job to go to everyday and when I’m not going out to clubs every night. Also I just need to be able to take a walk along the beach every evening and watch the sunset.
Anyway, whichever city I choose, I just can’t see spending as much as $75,000 extra over the course of my lifetime to rent versus buying a condo outright. After all, even if I decided to move to another city at some point and had to sell, any loses from the sale would be nothing in comparison to a 75K loss. Unless I am missing something in my calculations that is. And this is why I'm always asking expats about this.
Apr 18, 2016 at 5:47 am
TheThailandLife says
I still love Koh Samui. Phuket is great for a holiday, but Samui still retains more of that island feel, and still has some lovely spots despite heavy tourism. You also have Koh Phangnan across the way which is lovely too, but probably too quiet to live for someone used to the hustle and bustle of the city.
I guess Pattaya is an obvious choice because of it's proximity to the airport; though I'm not really a fan of the Beach Road area, nor the beach - which isn't much of a beach these days. I haven't been to Jomtien though, which I've heard is nicer.
Apr 18, 2016 at 9:35 pm
Ken says
As for Pattaya, I felt pretty much the same way about it as you do the first time I went there. I also resented being stuck there at the time. You see I just wanted to get to Phuket as soon as possible but my traveling companions wanted to stay in Pattaya and they out voted me. Over the years though the place has really grown on me. Sure it doesn’t have much of a beach to speak of but I still love taking strolls along beach road every evening and watching the sunset. And for swimming and sunbathing in the afternoons Jomtien is not such a terrible beach. Also there are the small islands right off the coast of Pattaya and its always easy to get a boat to take you out there. I even know one guy who somehow negotiated an all day rate for a jet ski and him and his girlfriend used it to get to the islands and back. And of course Koh Samet is only about an hour away by car and it has some really nice beaches.
As I said before though the best thing about Pattaya is its proximity to Bangkok and Bangkok women. Not only is there a much larger selection of attractive women in Bangkok but they are also more educated and have higher average IQ’s than pretty much anywhere else in the Kingdom. In some other parts of the country however average IQ’s can actually be as low as in the 80’s. And I guess if one is just into having a lot of random sex this would not be a problem but for a long term relationship to work out you really need to at least be in the same intellectual ball park as your partner.
I did love living in Phuket quite a bit but condos are just too expensive in Patong and Kata and I have no desire to live in Phuket Town or even Rawai where I lived before. Also I have always been in a relationship whenever I’ve been in Phuket so I know nothing about the dating scene there. In fact I have never even sat down for a drink at a bar in Phuket. And now that I think about it, I also don’t recall coming across any women there who I found to be stunninly attractive. Or at least none that could match up to my girlfriend at the time.
The bottom line is, if I were married or in a long term relationship and I had a few more bucks socked away, Phuket would be a no-brainer (or perhaps Koh Samui, although I’ve never been there). But being single again I need to be closer to Bangkok. Of course I will spend a month or so back in country before I make my final decision on which city I want to live in.
Apr 19, 2016 at 6:15 am
Bob says
Go and check out Ao Nang in Krabi. International airport, Tesco, Makro just opened. Lot of restaurants.
Downside is islam, so do not stay near the mosques and avoid the loudspeakers when renting.
May 13, 2016 at 1:26 pm
Ken says
I had said that it would cost me twice as much to rent versus buying over a 30-year period but this not necessarily true. The thing is I stupidly forgot to consider interest on my savings and so I was just assuming that I would use up all my savings on rent over time. But if I have $100,000 in savings and I can somehow earn 6% on it then I could actually pay all my rent with the interest alone and I would never even have to touch the principal.
Of course savings account interest rates have not been 6% since 1969 when I got my first bank account as a kid. And today you are lucky to get 1% and even CD’s aren’t much better. So to get 6% would require putting your money into a much more speculative type of investment vehicle. Still it could be done. So at the end of 30 years, even though I would not own a condo, I could still have100K in the bank.
Unfortunately however since I am so picky about my surroundings I will still have to by a condo so that I can remodel it to my exact specifications. And hopefully a $100K condo will be worth a lot more than 100K in 30 years. Of course, as over inflated as condo prices seem to be in the coastal areas of Thailand right now this is far from a certainty.
Jul 31, 2016 at 1:59 pm
Karsten says
Jan 28, 2016 at 2:55 pm
philippe says
Last point is that rich get richer and poor get poorer so depending on the market segment of the condo , cheap VS hiso , the price may be correlated to this?
Dec 10, 2016 at 2:57 am
JOHN says
Jan 25, 2016 at 4:17 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 26, 2016 at 7:08 pm
Gilly says
Dec 08, 2015 at 5:45 am
TheThailandLife says
Dec 08, 2015 at 4:13 pm
Pete says
Just wondering if you are still keeping tabs of the condo resale market in BKK (sukhumvit area, near thong lo, in particular. I've read that the condo prop market hasn't been good since a couple years back - from the political turmoil to the recent explosion at the shrine.
I'm looking to offload my prop. Would be helpful if you have any good contacts/agents that you can link me up with? Alternatively, if I can do so without an agent, it would be even better (after reading the high commission rates these agents charge). Thanks much!
Oct 27, 2015 at 7:56 pm
TheThailandLife says
Oct 28, 2015 at 10:16 pm
Pete says
I should have been clearer. I bought a condo near thong Lo when it was first launched, TOP is ~2-3 years later.
It hasn't TOP yet, so it's more of selling (or rather changing hands) for 1st hand condo.
Then again, I am having difficulty getting any interested buyer despite lowering prices n my previous agent now tell me that she's not interested to help with this deal so that she could focus on more launches.
Oct 29, 2015 at 10:09 am
Brian says
Oct 07, 2015 at 12:03 pm
TheThailandLife says
Oct 07, 2015 at 12:16 pm
Richard says
Nov 22, 2015 at 2:36 am
TheThailandLife says
Nov 24, 2015 at 1:23 pm
Jake says
I'm currently living and working in Thailand, and I'd like to know your opinion about a sublease business.
What about I rent a condo and then rent it again to others? like through Airbnb or something?
Wouldn't it make better profit than buying a condo?
Sep 16, 2015 at 2:12 pm
TheThailandLife says
Sep 17, 2015 at 12:38 am
BangkokBaz says
Also how agents increase the price of the property and take the difference between the sale price and the owner or developers asking price. Sometimes it can be 1 MB or more.
Jun 15, 2015 at 7:47 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jun 15, 2015 at 11:01 pm
TheThailandLife says
Yes, there's certainly a trend of people with spare cash buying along the planned BTS lines; often getting a heads up on some inside info from authority figures. The thing is, those locations are getting further and further out of town and therefore less desirable rents for those working in town. That means the rents will be fairly cheap and it will take longer to make your money back on a buy-to-let. If you want to stay in BKK for the next 20 years then perhaps buying is a good idea, but then ask yourself, would you make your money back if you suddenly had to sell and return home, or would you be able to rent it hassle free, and consistently. As a side note, even on the smaller, cheaper condos, when you work out the price per square foot it often doesn't work out much cheaper (for me anyway) than a decent area back home. It's the old story I guess, if you've got the money to risk and lose perhaps 25% of it, then take the gamble.
Jun 07, 2015 at 11:53 am
Ian says
May 25, 2015 at 9:10 pm
TheThailandLife says
May 25, 2015 at 9:31 pm
Jay says
Jun 05, 2015 at 6:18 am
TheThailandLife says
Jun 05, 2015 at 11:12 am
Jay says
Jun 07, 2015 at 5:20 am
nate says
Nov 04, 2014 at 11:22 am
TheThailandLife says
Nov 04, 2014 at 4:02 pm
Rob says
Feb 12, 2019 at 5:40 pm
Leo says
I have basically put a deposit down on a condo within walking distance of the bts. The building itself is aprox 8 year's old. I spoke to various farang in the complex and most of them gave a good review.
However reading your article as made me ponder whether i should pull out and lose the deposit rather then lose a few million.
A condo in the same building costs around 12/15k bht per month to rent so it make's more sense to rent.
Feb 24, 2014 at 5:59 am
TheThailandLife says
Feb 24, 2014 at 12:57 pm
Nick011 says
Investment wise (property) your better off in the U.K , USA , OZ, Europe, etc where you know your investment return is there and your income ... so don't blow it in Thailand unless your wealthy enough to accept low returns on you money.
My advice .. Is take the time to learn to speak Thai, ohhhh ... so difficult it is for me (and all farrangs) but my limited Thai has got me so much further with the genuine Thai people its incredible! The rewards of speaking the language comes back 10 fold - and then you don't get ripped of (as much).
Nov 02, 2016 at 11:22 am
TheThailandLife says
Nov 02, 2016 at 11:37 am