Buying a Condo in Thailand: 9 Questions You MUST Ask Yourself!

Most expats have thought about buying a condo in Thailand at one time or another.

After all, it's one of the few things that can make one feel truly at home in a country with fairly strict laws on land and property ownership for foreign nationals.

Foreign nationals are permitted to buy a condo (freehold) without restriction, but only in a building where more than 51% of the total number of units are Thai owned, otherwise foreign nationals are restricted to a leasehold condo.

Moreover, many of us come from countries where ownership is the ultimate goal, and renting is seen as throwing money down the drain.

Indeed, buying a condo seems like the logical thing to do, especially if you are staying long term or visiting the same province three times a year and splashing out on hotels.

But only fools rush in, and I'd advise caution – because there's a bucket load of things you need to consider before signing on the dotted line for your slice of Thai pie.

Before we get started, it's worth me noting who this post isn't for.

This post isn't for anyone who has so much cash that throwing down 5-10 MB+ for a condo is a mere drip in their champagne glass.

If you don't give a monkey's bottom whether you see a return on your money, whether you're being blinded by marketing ploys or whether your condo was built by builders who haven't been to college or done an apprenticeship, stop reading now – because you're going to buy a condo regardless of my advice, and probably a speedboat, too.

This post is for those who have a modest amount of money looking to put down digs in their favourite part of Thailand, with the vision of having a future here, or at the very least a holiday home.

It's also for those who might be considering a condo as an investment, thinking that the return is likely to be way better than an ISA.

Now that we're clear, let's start!

1. How Big is the Rabbit Hutch?

No one wants to live in a rabbit hutch. Image credit: nydailynews

It's no secret in the Thai property industry that a condo block close to public transport links, the beach or local nightlife tends to have smaller units at an inflated price.

People pay over the odds for convenience and often end up making sacrifices that later down the line become very important and possibly regretful.

Just a few weeks ago a friend and I went to see a condo in Ekkamai, Bangkok. The said condo was 2-bedroom, approximately 60 sq. m., B35,000 a month.

During the viewing, the landlord showing us around mentioned she had other condos, one of which was nearer a station (On Nut station). She explained that it was 41 sq. m, two bedrooms, for B30,000 a month.

We'd already turned our noses up at the size of the one we were viewing, but 41 square metres! How do you fit two bedrooms in that?

The lady went on to explain the market and how developers were increasingly making condos near stations smaller to maximize profits and squeeze higher prices out of buyers/renters.

Land in premium locations is scarce and expensive, which means condo buildings are getting taller and the number of condos in a block is increasing to maximize space.

But here's the crazy thing: The condo we were viewing was only 6 or 7 minutes walk from the station.

So, just by making the sacrifice of having to walk an extra few minutes to the station, for not even £100 more a month, we could have 21 sq. m. more space.

If we were buyers, the difference could have been as much as 1.5 MB.

2. Would You Pay This Much Back Home?

Here's a simple technique to find a great condo in a suitable location.

Wherever it is you want to buy, start your search from the most convenient or attractive part of the area: the station, the beach, the shopping mall, wherever.

Gradually work your way backwards noting prices, until you get to a point where you say, “Hey, that's too far to walk”, or, “I can't be doing with that motorbike taxi ride every day”.

I know you're excited about living in Thailand or owning a holiday home, but as we all know, Thailand has a way of blinding us to certain realities, and condos is one of those.

Compare the equivalent to your home country. For the UK I usually add 2/3 to the price. So if it's 3 million Baht it would be about 9 million back home. Would you shed out the same money back home for an unfurnished apartment, that small?

Make sure you do the math. What often seems cheap in Thailand isn't all that cheap when you make a market comparison. Compare how much you are paying per sq.mt with what you'd pay back home.

Factor in the relative price. If you are paying 5MB for a condo here, the same would be at least 10-15MB in a major city in the UK or US.

Also consider the long-term ramifications:

Will you and your partner be getting under each other's feet all the time in such a small place?
It's big enough now but what if you decide to have a kid? Perhaps you have a baby now. They don't stay babies forever, so will this be enough space?
If you're a singleton, is it big enough to rent a spare room or have people over to stay while they're on holiday?
It looks spacious on the plans but how much stuff have you got and how much are you likely to accumulate while living here?
Won't you want a bigger balcony to sit out on?
Do you really want to look at that main road every day?
Having a gym upstairs is great, but will those 10kg dumbbells and two bikes really suffice?
The swimming pool looks good now, but how often is it going to be cleaned and serviced?

3. Are You Buying a Condo Built by Mr O' Rilley?

“I thought you said a wall Mr Fawlty?”

If you're a Fawlty Towers fan then you'll be familiar with the building work of the jolly Irish builder in the picture above, Mr O' Riley.

Humour aside, the build quality of condos in Thailand isn't always up to scratch.

Even those developer brands touting their work as “European standard” have a lot to answer for, particularly when you take a walk past the site and see the dubious hammer and chisel techniques on display.

I remember a friend visiting from the UK sometime ago. A roofer and plasterer by trade, he was gobsmacked by what he observed on the building site opposite his hotel.

At times he'd sit by the pool muttering, “What the?” “What is he doing?” “No, no, no, you can't do that”!

I don't blame the builders, though. In fact, I admire them.

The majority have no formal building education to speak of, the tools they are given to do the job are inadequate, and their lives are treated with such contempt that when it comes to safety standards and wages it's a wonder they manage to make it from one job to the next.

But let's get to the ethics of the Thai construction industry later.

The fact is, the large majority of condos experience build problems in the first few years of operation. If you're lucky you'll escape with the simple stuff:

The low quality materials used for the facia of the building will fade under the glare of the sun
The cheap tiles used to lay the flooring in the hallways and your apartment will crack on poorly laid floors
Door will handles rust
Walls will crack dues to poor plastering.
Cheap paint will wear fast.

If you're unlucky there could be more serious issues with leaking or subsidence.

An apartment project in Pathum Thani subsides.

Don't get me wrong, nearly all condo buildings stand the test of time (except the one above, of course) in that they don't fall down.

Generally, however, they do require ongoing maintenance work that you wouldn't expect to do on a new property back in your home country.

Of course the advantage of renting is that this cost is picked up by the owner of the block or the individual condo you are renting privately.

The question is this: Have you researched the materials being used to build the condo you want to buy? If not, why not?

The fact is, if you're planning on paying 2.5MB for a 33 sq. m condo built with paper-thin walls, the cheapest floor tiles from HomePro and a single kitchen hob, then you're getting shafted.

Cheap fittings don't last and break. They need replacing, it's not just an expense but it's annoying.

4. Are You Happy Paying an Inflated Market Rate?

Every real-estate agent in Thailand will be all over this post telling me that the market is booming and 6% yields on rental properties are common.

And you know what, they're right. If, that is, you are Thai and bought off plan with a heads-up from the developer.

Here's a quote from the NomadCapitalist who knows a fair thing or two about property markets and their “legal scams” in Asia:

Here’s one way Thais are playing the real estate market in Bangkok. Connected Thais will find “off-plan” condo projects in areas along the Skytrain line, such as Sukhumvit or Sathorn in Bangkok. Developers require ten percent of the condo price down at signing, which can be paid in installments over one to two years. That means a 500-square-foot, $200,000 condo can essentially be optioned for about $1,000 a month.
The plan in this scenario is to do an off-the-books sale of the purchase contrast to a longer-term investor (or sucker) once construction gets underway. Considering condo prices increase as much as few percentage points per quarter once it goes “on plan”, Thai investors can as much as double their out-of-pocket investment before they flip the property. And because it was off the books, they avoid taxes or much scrutiny.
Such opportunities are not as open to westerners. You have to be connected, and Thailand is very proud of the fact that it was never colonized by any European power. That means no foreigner is going to penetrate their inner circle.
(Quote source: Nomad Capitalist)

Ask yourself this simple question: why are there so many condos sitting empty in Thailand, particularly in Bangkok? Yet the owners would rather have them remain empty than drop the rental rate.

I will tell you:

Quite simply because, considering the points made above, these twilight investors are prepared to take a hit on a few units for the sake of keeping the market artificially inflated, thus enabling their development investments in off-plan condo buildings that get flipped off the books at double-bubble.

5. Is it Really a Good Investment?

I nearly did it once.

Five years ago, a friend and I slapped down a deposit on a condo in Koh Samui. It was to be a holiday home-cum-rental opportunity.

We justified our spontaneous purchase on the continual growth of the island's economy, and the fact that friends could rent it when they came out for a holiday.

Sadly my friend went home after his holiday, took off the rose-coloured glasses and figured that the cash would be safer in an ISA.

He was probably right.

In some ways I wish we'd gone ahead, not least because I'd have a cool little escape in Samui and because market prices have increased since then.

However, the reality is that we probably wouldn't have been able to resell it anyway. The sheer abundance of new builds means the rental market is highly competitive and you need to offer up a cheap deal to make sure your gaff is full all year round.

Not to mention that I can book a decent hotel on a deal from Agoda or Hotel.com for B1.500 a night if I do want to go there for a holiday, hassle free.

Consider this scenario…

When you buy a property in the UK, even if the market crashes post buy, if you hold on for 10 years, you'll still end up getting more than you paid for it, and in most cases make a profit.

Moreover, you will be able to rent the property and make a good yield, regardless of resale market conditions. The crash and climb of the 90s and of the mid 2000s has proven this to be true.

This is not the case for condos in Thailand. As mentioned above, the money is in knowing the man who knows the man, in investing off-plan before the project is announced and flipping off the books.

Buying a condo to rent out for profit is risky at best, unless of course you have a contract with a multinational company that wants to rent your place for staff, or a similar scenario.

And here's why:

Condos for rent are two a penny. The sheer abundance of choice makes it a renter's market. And while your condo might be a popular rent when it's brand new, when ten new blocks go up in the same square mile over the next few years, you'll have to drastically reduce your rental price to compete with the fancy new kids on the block.

Once your air-con unit starts looking shabby and the pigeons have done their worst to the exterior of the property, your condo is way down on the list of units would-be renters favour.

Of course, there are exceptions. For example, buy a 38 MB penthouse on Soi Ruamrudee in Bangkok and you might get 250k+ a month for as long as the big banks and embassies are still in the area – even when the block is a little dated.

But I don't have that sort of cash to shed out, do you?

The sums just don't add up. There's not enough money to be made to take on the risk.

Let's say I buy a 3 million Baht 1-bedroom condo. It's fairly near a BTS station in Bangkok and I get 20k a month for it, and it's always occupied.

It would take me 12.5 years to make my money back, let alone a profit.

Now, tell me, what are the chances of always having a tenant?

And when that 12.5 years is up, what are the chances of being able to sell the condo for more than I paid for it?

And if I did get my 3 million Baht back, the value of that money will have depreciated anyway.

Oh, and you have to pick up all the maintenance fees, too.

I'll rent, thanks.

6. Are You Being Blinded by Furnishings You Won't Get?

The showroom condo might look like this, but you'll probably need another 1MB+ for this level of furnishing.

I'll never forget the time I accompanied a condo-buying friend to a showroom in Tong Lor, Bangkok.

We were given free smoothies and chocolates just for looking around.

It was five-star treatment that made you feel like you'd won the lottery, and that “buying one of these condos is the missing piece of your life”.

We were showed around a beautifully decorated condo. It was small but felt so cosy and looked really well-finished.

Then it struck me to ask the sales lady: “So which type of unit comes decorated like this”.

“None sir. This is just for show”.

I'm not kidding. From the kitchen units down to the silver plug sockets, you didn't get any of this decor for your 6 MB.

I finished my smoothie, drinking down the realization that the entire setup was an oasis.

They'd used a European fitted kitchen and other high-end furnishings that would cost the price of the condo itself to buy and fit (properly) in Thailand.

Without this stuff, it was a mere hamster cage, without the pretty running wheel and drinking bowl.

So, before you put that deposit down, make sure you fully understand what, if any, furniture and fittings you will be getting. And at what price the top-end stuff in the show home will set you back post-purchase.

7. Is Your Deposit Refundable?

Question: Name a way to make money out of building a condo block other than selling the units?

Answer: Get truckloads of people to be so overwhelmed at the prospect of a free iPad and “special price today only” that they leave deposits with your commission-hungry sales staff.

Believe or not, condo developers in Thailand make millions of Baht every year from non-refundable deposits.

First they lure you in with as much free water as you can drink and a few snacks and smiles from some extremely attractive “pretties” (before the feminists hang me for using that word, it's not something I made up. This is a real term used in Thailand for women who stand at sales events looking pretty).

Next they show you the amazing decor you won't be getting. And lastly, they tell you that the “today only” price is yours for a small 20,000 Baht deposit – if you “just sign here, sir”.

Do yourself a favour and make sure the deposit is refundable within 14 days (or other negotiated period).

Get this in writing. Or, if you can afford to throw away 20k, go ahead and enjoy another bottle of free water.

8. Is Your Dream Condo Complex Destined to be a Condotel?

A condo hotel, also known as a hotel-condo or a Contel, is a building, which is legally a condominium but which is operated as a hotel, offering short term rentals, and which maintains a Front Desk.

This little detail often comes as a post-build shock to those buying in the early stages of construction. It should be stipulated in the contract but is easily missed or conveniently left out.

So what's the problem?

Well, unless you fancy herds of tourists around the pool, coach parties gathering for trips in the lobby, sex tourists shaking the floorboards at all hours and the perpetual feeling of staying in a hotel, I'd enquire as to how many, if any, of the condos in your block are to be set aside as hotel/short rent rooms.

Maybe you aren't bothered about living in a condotel, but it's worth asking about, and you really should be told if units are to be allocated for this purpose.

9. How Do You Feel About the Thai Construction Industry?

Low pay, poor safety standards, lack of equipment = sub-standard building

Thus far, this post has been all about the reddies, the wonga, the Benjamins, the best bang for your buck and how to make sure you don't waste your hard-earned money on a condo that's not right for you.

But what of the workers who build the condos?

What about the unscrupulous developers who cut every possible corner, including worker safety and paying below the minimum wage to unregistered immigrant workers.

It's rife.

I've been observing the building of a massive condo development near my home for the last year.

Every day I see the workers shipped in from their campsite/worker digs in what look like WW2 trucks, stuffed over capacity and the workers forced to endure the black smoke pouring out of the exhaust.

It's a painful sight.

To their credit, these men and women have built an amazing two building complex with very few power tools.

Usually armed with little more than a hammer and chisel, they scale the structure dangerously, day and night, rain come shine, to erect condos they themselves will never be able to afford – not that they'd want to pay such an extortionate amount of money for a tiny space in the middle of the sky.

Thinking about it, knowing what the materials cost and what they get paid, they're probably having a good laugh at us for paying so much!

But seriously…

When you employ the cheapest labour you can get, based solely on the fact that the workers don't have the qualifications to ask for more, or the voice to be treated fairly, and you give them the bare minimum of tools, making it extremely difficult to do the job, it is, in my opinion, slave labour.

As for worker safety, you only need to look at the flip flop-blessed feet navigating the wooden scaffolding to make a judgement on how much the Thai construction industry values the lives of its workers.

I'm not trying to start some sort of “farang union” here, but I believe in fair.

The workers should be given better training, better tools, more money and be better protected by health and safety standards.

I don't know about you but it makes me feel uncomfortable seeing people treated this way, and a free Samsung Galaxy and a couple of bottles of water won't make me forget these facts.

Got a condo-buying experience to share? I'd love to hear about it below in the comments section.

More Tips for a Better Life in Thailand

Send Money to Thailand:

Use Transferwise. It is fast, cheap, and gives you the market exchange rate. Me and the majority of my readers are using it.

Get Good Health Insurance:

Start with a quick quote from Cigna. Then compare my other recommendations here.

Improve Your Thai Skills:

Learning Thai makes life here easier and more fun. I use Thaipod101. It is free to get started & easy to use.

Protect Your Online Privacy:

A VPN protects you against hackers and government snooping. I always use one. You should too. Read why here.

Last Updated on August 17, 2021

Comments Sort by : newest | oldest

HAROLD W ROONEY says
April 20, 2022 at 12:40 am
Wow My wife and I are thinking of selling our home in Canada and retiring in Pattaya I am 70 and my wife is 63 and is in remission from cancer .These stories have me doubting making this dream come true , Thanks for the heads up . Cheers Harold and Sonja
Reply
Apr 20, 2022 at 12:40 am
- TheThailandLife says
  April 20, 2022 at 3:42 pm
  Why not rent out your place in Canada and use some of the money to rent a place here? You could even rent a house. There are still good options to buy from reputable developers; but take your time and think it through carefully.
  Reply
  Apr 20, 2022 at 3:42 pm
  - Harold Rooney and Sonja says
    April 20, 2022 at 8:16 pm
    Thank you for your quick reply but unfortunately we own a condo town home that we are not allowed to rent because of our condo bylaws ,If we sold we would have approx, $500.000 Canadian and $4000 per month pension that is why we chose Thailand as we believe we could have a good retirement there as we looked at Florida but the price of homes and medical are beyond our means We are coming to Pattaya in December and we will check out the condo rentals which we believe is our best bet ,Thanks again to your great advice Cheers Harold and Sonja
    Reply
    Apr 20, 2022 at 8:16 pm
    - Mistake says
      April 21, 2022 at 2:48 am
      Hello Harold and Sonya! If I could off any advice, I would recommend continuing to do as much research regarding condo rentals in Thailand as much as possible. Try to find negative reviews as well as positive reviews so you are aware of scams and undesirable issues and how to avoid or mitigate them. Using this site for information from expats is definitely a good start. I wish I had known about this site and done my due diligence prior to buying my condo under a rental guarantee scheme. Legal rectification for contractual issues and fraud against non-Thai by Thai seems rare from what I’ve researched. It appears that if you don’t have a lot of money or influence, the rule of law doesn’t work in your favor. I’ve been going to Thailand since the late 90s, and I really enjoy it, but it’s hard to be comfortable in a place with the level of injustice Thailand has.
      Reply
      Apr 21, 2022 at 2:48 am
Mistake says
January 30, 2022 at 1:10 pm
I wish I knew about, and read all of this great dialogue 5 years ago when I purchased a condo in Pattaya. I bought under a rental guarantee program and the condo recently suspended my rental guarantee and voting rights for not paying some maintenance fee that they never informed me of any due date. Now they’ve stopped answering my emails. I’m currently looking for legal advice, and possibly selling the condo. Would appreciate any recommendations or suggestions. Thank you in advance.
Reply
Jan 30, 2022 at 1:10 pm
- John says
  January 30, 2022 at 10:59 pm
  You can not sell your condo if you haven't paid your out standing maintenance fee .The CJP manager have to sign of a document for the land office you did pay all you maintenance fee .
  Ontop of that a potential buyer who does a due diligence check will find out about the out standing maintenance fee too and there for might pull the plug with proceeding to buy your condo .
  My best advice for you ,
  1. Read the complete Thai condo Act .
  2. Read the rules and regulations of your condo
  3. Read The rental agreement
  4. Read your purchase agreement
  Reply
  Jan 30, 2022 at 10:59 pm
  - Mistake says
    February 2, 2022 at 2:15 pm
    John,
    As soon as I received the notice that I hadn't paid on time, I sent them the payment. How I became aware that I was "late", was when I inquired about my January 2022 rental guarantee payment that I didn't receive. That's when they informed me I was in "default."
    
    I've read my contract, and rules, but not the complete Thai condo Act. It's obvious that they're trying to stiff me on my payments. I'm just curious if hiring an attorney will work out favorably for me, or is it a waste of my time and more money. We all know there is an element of corruption in Thailand, but is it that bad a meager condo invester can't get a simple justice?
    Reply
    Feb 02, 2022 at 2:15 pm
- john squire says
  January 31, 2022 at 7:38 am
  If they suspended the rental agreement because of extreme circumstances ie covid then it is a reasonable action. If you failed to pay maintenance without giving a good reason then it is reasonable to cancel your contract. If the contract gave you 5 years guaranteed rent and the 5 years has just expired then you have been condoned. The system is as easy as falling off a log. The developer builds a condo which is worth 2mil empty but he sells it for 2.5 mil. This gives him 500,000 bht to help make up the figures to afford to give a rent guarantee. HE has got 8,500 bht already in his pocket so if the nett income from the unit is 5000 then he can pay the owner 13,500 pcm and still be better off than he would have been if he sold the unit at the proper price.
  Lets go back to failure to pay maintenance fee...normally this would have been taken from the guaranteed rent payments being made to you. It might well be that the management did not want you to pay the money so they could use your none payment as an excuse to not pay you the money they owe you
  Reply
  Jan 31, 2022 at 7:38 am
  - Mistake says
    February 2, 2022 at 2:07 pm
    John Squire, thanks for taking the time to comment, it's greatly appreciated.
    Their reasoning for suspending the rental guarantee wasn't due to covid. They stated because I paid the maintenance fees late. I wasn't initially informed of when the payment was required. I only found out after they emailed me a notice one month after it was due. I'm still well within my rental guarantee timeline, so it hasn't expired. You mentioned any fees would normally be subtracted from the guaranteed rent, which is what I thought could potentially catch any fees I may have missed, if I ever did. Another point you mentioned, that I also agree with, is they most likely sent me the notice late, so they could say I was late, and void the rental guarantee portion so they don't have to pay me, but still collect rent from the current tenant. When covid first hit, I was weary that something scandalous like this would happen. And it did. I'm curious if hiring an attorney to mediate this or take it to court is worth it.
    Reply
    Feb 02, 2022 at 2:07 pm
    - john squire says
      February 2, 2022 at 6:06 pm
      If you know of a good lawyer then seek advice. Problem is where can you find a good lawyer. There are some good lawyers but most of them will cause you more problems....also selling is not a good option because the market is bad
      Reply
      Feb 02, 2022 at 6:06 pm
      - Mistake says
        February 5, 2022 at 11:56 am
        Where can you find a good lawyer (in Pattaya) is the million dollar question. You mentioned "most of them will cause you more problems." How so?
        I was actually planning on going to Pattaya in July 2020 to sell my condo, had my flights and lodging all lined up....but that darn Covid showed up and ruined it.
        Reply
        Feb 05, 2022 at 11:56 am
        
        john squire says
        February 6, 2022 at 3:55 pm
        well the people who regulate lawyers are more corrupt and incompetent than the lawyers are so if the thailand lawyers are not regulated then maybe they will not be so bad. I cannot be speciific but a few examples i have come accross.
        1) changing/falsifying my complaint and then saying my complaint was a lie
        2) sending my mother's will to the wrong address and then physically throwing me from the office because i called them stupid
        3) claiming i was lying about not receiving legal papers ...then it was discovered the lawyer had put a uk domestic stamp on the envelope to pay for postage from uk to thailand
        4) On three occasions i discovered my lawyers were helping the other side
        5) On one occasion I did my own conveyancing the vendors lawyer purposefully made mistakes in order the conveyancing would fail......After I forced them to correct their mistakes they then admitted to making a mistake calculating the money i owed, and that they owed me 200 euro but would not pay the money they owed to me because I was not a qualified lawyer
        Reply
        Feb 06, 2022 at 3:55 pm
        
        Mistake says
        February 7, 2022 at 6:19 am
        Sorry to hear about all of your undoubtably stress filled encounters with those attorneys. Were they all lawyers practicing in Thailand?
        
        I hope I can find a competent lawyer, and get justice. Usually these companies have connections and justice for the victims doesn’t happen. I just don’t want to waste more time and money.
        Reply
        Feb 07, 2022 at 6:19 am
        
        john squire says
        February 7, 2022 at 5:02 pm
        One of the lawyers who was acting for both sides was thai. However, one of my problems with an irish lawyer is a problem you might face yourself.. I was trying to get released from a pooled rent system. It was worrying when without studying the pooled rent contract the lawyer said he could not help me. What was even more worrying was that my lawyer gained knowledge of my relationship with the person who controlled the pooled rent system ie without my permission he had contacted the person who the dispute was with. What was even more worrying was that less than a month after the lawyer told me I was stuck with the pooled rent agreement I had said agreement cancelled
        Property managers have a lot of contacts and you might suffer the same as me ie you might employ a lawyer to help you and later discover said lawyer decided to act for you and the people who are causing you problems
        Reply
        Feb 07, 2022 at 5:02 pm
john squire says
October 19, 2021 at 11:01 pm
Certain condo complexes have been built for 5 years and are far from full. The normal way to calculate the contributions towards maintaining a condo is as follows a 50 unit complex has a bill for 2,000,000 pa so each condo owner pays 40,000pa. however if only 25 units have been sold do the owners of the 25 units have to pay 80,000 to make up for the empty condos or do the builders have to pay the contributions for the empty condos
Reply
Oct 19, 2021 at 11:01 pm
- Matt says
  October 20, 2021 at 12:56 am
  Why buy when you can rent? The good thing about renting is there are no hassles when it comes to trying to sell or dealing with the condo association. You are much better off renting. The rent is cheap enough as it is, also if you think about it…buying a home is suppose to be an investment but in Thailand it’s the reverse. So if you’re ok with buying something that’s so expensive and not realizing any type of return on it and only problems and headaches then you better ask yourself if it’s even worth the stress. I think the answer is a no brainer. Unless of course you plan on living there year round for the rest of your life then maybe it’s worth it to buy but I’d marry a Thai woman that you 100% can trust and buy a home not a condo and make sure it’s up north where there’s no tourist etc. that’s the only way to buy a home in Thailand if you’re a foreigner. And I say make sure you can trust your Thai wife 100% because as a foreigner we all know you can’t own land. Good luck my friend.
  Reply
  Oct 20, 2021 at 12:56 am
- PeteBKK says
  January 12, 2022 at 1:44 pm
  "Certain condo complexes have been built for 5 years and are far from full. The normal way to calculate the contributions towards maintaining a condo is as follows a 50 unit complex has a bill for 2,000,000 pa so each condo owner pays 40,000pa. however if only 25 units have been sold do the owners of the 25 units have to pay 80,000 to make up for the empty condos or do the builders have to pay the contributions for the empty condos."
  
  The owner of each condo unit pays common area fees whether they stay in the unit or not. If they fail to pay they will be charged interest on the arrears and will not be able to sell their condo until fully paid up. Some condos will also shut off water supply. All on these "rules" are stipulated in the "Condo Regs" that gets lodged with the Lands Dept when the condo gets registered with them. Be mindful however that it is the condo developer that writes these regs and many clauses can, and will be illegal to favour their interests not yours! They can even write that they will not be liable for common area fees! To get any obviously illegal or unfavourable clauses changed or deleted requires the consent of the Juristic Manager and/or a 3/4 majority vote in the AGM. For newly constructed condos the developer typically appoints their JM stooge and dominates the AGM as they will still own most of the floor area of the condo and therefore maintain majority voting rights. It's a Catch 22.
  
  As mentioned for a newly constructed condos the developer must register the completed condo with the Lands Dept (to obtain title deeds etc) before commencing condo sales and therefore they will own all the unsold condo units. From the date of condo registration they then required by law to pay the stipulated common area fees for the unsold condos. HOWEVER typically the developer will set up a subsidiary company (under another name) who will manage the condo -at least initially - and be the body to bill and collect sinking fund and common area fees. So it's a case of the fox guarding the henhouse. ALSO, as the developer typically will own most of the condos at the start they have a majority of voting rights the AGM to 'install' their own people as juristic manager (the guy who signs all condo service contracts and legal docs in the name of the condo, including appointing an annual audit company) and 'install' condo directors who re typically employees in the developer's company. Other unit owners are none-the-wiser who these directors or managing company really are because they are all new neighbors and don't know one another.
  Reply
  Jan 12, 2022 at 1:44 pm
john squire says
October 19, 2021 at 10:51 pm
I assume that condos registered in a thai name receive less interest from purchasers and so a large discount can be obtained ...am i correct if yes what percent discount 10...20...30%
Reply
Oct 19, 2021 at 10:51 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  October 20, 2021 at 12:02 am
  Not that I know of. A condo is worth what a person is willing to pay for it; that's generally what I find here.
  Reply
  Oct 20, 2021 at 12:02 am
john squire says
August 21, 2021 at 10:10 pm
We looked at a condo in Chiang Mai which was for sale at 500,000 baht it was so cheap we looked for the catch and found there was 200,000 owed in maintenance charges. Now in europe the conveyancing makes sure that the new owner is not responsible for paying the money the last owner failed to pay. In thailand how does the buyer make sure the condo he is buying does not come with a debt
Reply
Aug 21, 2021 at 10:10 pm
- Ken F says
  August 22, 2021 at 10:04 am
  That’s interesting. I never really thought about what would happen if one did not pay his condo fees in Thailand. Here in the States of course you would first face some stiff fines and penalties and if that did not work they would sue you and probably even put a lien on your property pretty quickly. As for how to know if there are any financial encumbrances attached to a property in Thailand you would hire a Thai law firm of course to check into it for you. I would never even consider buying in Thailand without having a lawyer look over everything first. And even here in the States when buying a foreclosed property at auction its up to you to figure out if there are any encumbrances attached to the property. And if you do not know how to find out that stuff then you would hire someone else to do it for you. Or, if the price is right and there is no time to find out then you just take a gamble.
  
  In any case, you really have wonder how the former condo owner went for years without paying his maintenance fees.
  Reply
  Aug 22, 2021 at 10:04 am
  - john squire says
    August 23, 2021 at 4:42 pm
    you have to understand how it works ie if the swimming pool turns green because it is not cleaned...and complaints are made but the pool just gets greener then normally speaking the condo owner stops paying the fees to clean the pool ect then the management threaten court action, and tells the other owners the reason why the pool is not cleaned is because certain owners are failing to pay their fees. Then when the condo is sold the management claim the fees owed, but instead of cleaning the pool with said money...they buy themselves a new car.
    Reply
    Aug 23, 2021 at 4:42 pm
    - Hugh says
      August 24, 2021 at 6:45 pm
      You'd think there'd be laws against that sort of blatant outright dishonesty. But when Arsenal charge £65 to watch a football match, it's all swings and roundabouts I guess.
      Reply
      Aug 24, 2021 at 6:45 pm
      - TheThailandLife says
        August 24, 2021 at 6:49 pm
        Some tickets were 85 quid for the Chelsea game :)
        Reply
        Aug 24, 2021 at 6:49 pm
    - Ken F says
      August 25, 2021 at 6:04 am
      Well, although no mature responsible building owner would do something like this I have no doubt that there are a few idiots out there in the world who might be childish and petty enough to do so in order to put pressure on the offending condo unit owner. I say childish and petty because there is no legitimate financial reason to stop pool maintenance simply because one or two percent of your condo unit owners are not paying their maintenance fees. After all pool maintenance only takes up a miniscule percentage of the yearly maintenance costs to begin with in a typical sized condo building. And even when you throw in landscape maintenance and a security guard you still are not using much of that money. The majority of the money collected is to pay for the very large and very expensive maintenance projects that may pop up over the life span of the building. Of course, as you pointed out, what the money is intended to be used for and what it actually ends up being used for are not always the same things in countries like Thailand.
      
      In any case, I’m not really worried about ever having a green pool because I would do the pool maintenance myself if this ever happened where I lived. And if management refused my offer to do it for free I would go ahead and do it in secret anyway.
      Reply
      Aug 25, 2021 at 6:04 am
  - Phuket says
    August 24, 2021 at 5:38 am
    It is very important to check the books of the condo overall in Thailand. I have seen areas were many owners don't pay and it will start to decay...
    
    Apparently very hard to take over the property. What they normally do is cut water.
    Reply
    Aug 24, 2021 at 5:38 am
John says
June 28, 2021 at 6:33 pm
Hi Peter

From reading your post and the pitfalls on buying a condo, do I take it you are suggesting renting rather than buying?
I am looking at Hua Hin rather than Bangkok but presume all of the above still applies?
Thanks
Reply
Jun 28, 2021 at 6:33 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  June 28, 2021 at 6:46 pm
  Hi John, I think renting is preferable because it is generally very affordable and gives you the flexibility to move around or relocate very easily. But if you are sure you want to live in a particular area for the next 25 years then that's a different scenario. Of course you can always sell, but whether you make your money back is down to market conditions. Right now the market has so many unsold units it could be difficult to turn a profit or make your money back. Of course you can rent the condo out if you decide to go elsewhere. I'm referring to Thailand in general, so Hua Hin too.
  Reply
  Jun 28, 2021 at 6:46 pm
  - Hugh says
    June 29, 2021 at 6:36 pm
    Hi Peter,
    Good to see Granit Xhaka actually putting a shift in, during the Euros. Shame about the last 3 years though.
    Talking of Thai buildings etc...
    When I was living 30 floors up at the Ivy Condos in Ratburana, my attention was drawn to the thickness (or narrowness) of the actual external wall.
    All that protected us from the elements, and was holding us up, was about 60-65 mm of pre-cast concrete, and some very heavy single glazed window frames.
    Although we had a sensational view across the river, and the night time BKK skyline was beautiful, I have to admit to being worried on more than 1 occasion when in bed at night thinking about the building wobbling.
    Having seen the recent collapse of a similar sized building in the U.S.A on t.v recently, I'm amazed that similar incidents aren't common place in BKK / Thailand.
    I'm sure Thai buildings stay safe more by luck than judgement.
    Reply
    Jun 29, 2021 at 6:36 pm
    - TheThailandLife says
      June 29, 2021 at 7:00 pm
      Ha, yes, Xhaka was great last night but the premier league is a different world of football.Thailand has had its fair share of building collapses but I can't recall one as bad as the recent tragedy in Florida.
      Reply
      Jun 29, 2021 at 7:00 pm
    - Ken F says
      August 25, 2021 at 3:40 am
      I wouldn’t worry too much about how thick your walls are because in those types of buildings neither the interior nor exterior walls are load bearing. The building is supported entirely by those huge concrete support columns that are typically spaced about 12 feet apart in most Thai condo buildings. You cannot help but notice these as they usually jut out into your living space.
      
      Still, I have to admit that I felt the same as you when I first came to Thailand and stayed in a high rise over 30 years ago and noticed how shoddy the workmanship was even in fairly new buildings. After all I could not help but wonder if that shoddy workmanship did not extend to the major structural components of the building as well. But the truth is buildings do not collapse any more often in Thailand then they do anywhere else in the world so its not really something that one should loose any sleep over.
      Reply
      Aug 25, 2021 at 3:40 am
- Declan Flynn says
  July 15, 2021 at 10:27 pm
  Hi John,
  
  I am also looking at Hua Hin. My girlfriend is a real estate agent there so I feel more comfortable buying. You can get some good rental deals at the moment because of Covid, but hopefully that will be short term for everyone's sake.
  Reply
  Jul 15, 2021 at 10:27 pm
  - Matt says
    July 15, 2021 at 11:29 pm
    Who’s everyone’s sake? Because as it was the rental market as well as the real estate market is way over inflated. There’s too much inventory and not enough renters even before the covid situation.
    Reply
    Jul 15, 2021 at 11:29 pm
    - Matt g says
      February 3, 2022 at 5:13 pm
      Lol so what’s a good deal? You say because of covid everything is cheap but hopefully everything goes back to being expensive when covid is over. So how does this favor the renter or buyer. As it is property here is way overpriced and rentals were steadily rising before covid. What covid actually did was bring everything back to reality here in the land of smiles. This place is just one huge bubble that’s waiting to explode and all this covid thing do was speed it up. Any foreigner who buys here is nothing short of a nut case. Renting is by far the better way to go even if your so called Thai girlfriend and I stress girlfriend is a real estate agent.
      Reply
      Feb 03, 2022 at 5:13 pm
sidney leonard says
June 28, 2021 at 10:21 am
Now that you and James have generously answered my many questions regarding viewing US TV in Thailand, including re: VPNs, I think this would be the place to pick your brains about another of my concerns as my Thai wife of 28 years and I prepare for our post pandemic move to Thailand - where to live.

I have perused the all the comments above and would appreciate your, and other's, advice regarding the following. - I share your compunction about the working conditions of Thai (and immigrant) construction workers; in this regard do you know what real estate developers provide the best conditions for workers on their projects. Do well-established, reputable companies which are listed on the Thai stock exchange, like Sansiri and Raimon Land, adhere to higher standards, or are the deplorable conditions you describe so prevalent that there are no exceptions.

It is our intention to initially rent in the CBD near good transportation and all the other amenities this senior citizen requires, realizing that rent will be rather high, and then later perhaps consider purchasing a condo or villa, although, frankly, your admonitions regarding doing so are very dissuasive.

Regarding renting: Please comment about the NEW RESIDENTIAL TENANCY LAWS that became effective May 2018? And, Is it advisable to retain a lawyer to scrutinize a lease agreement?

Again, thank you for all the useful information you provide this expat to be.
Reply
Jun 28, 2021 at 10:21 am
- JamesE says
  June 28, 2021 at 10:51 pm
  Wellllll.... One thing that was hard for me to wrap my head around is exactly *how* different construction is in Thailand compared to the US. My partner's mom is (she says "was" but I think she's just in denial) a serial home builder. She'd design a house, build it, live in it while she designed and built the next one, then sell it; rinse and repeat. What happens - on projects small and large is that the builders move onsite. These are the notorious "construction camps" featuring so prominently in the news lately. The builders live - with all that implies - on-site for the duration and then pack up and move to the next project. While they are on site, they live in tin shacks of their own construction. So, to your question: No, you're not going to find working conditions/laborer treatment anywhere close to what you'd expect as minimum acceptable standards.
  
  Thailand is a land of relationships. Paper contracts are worth *exactly* what the paper cost to print them. Just like Texas. While the contract will spell out who is responsible for what, enforcement of those items may be difficult - for you - in the event of a dispute. So find a place (try several with short stays of a month or two) with a landlord/owner/mgmt company that you like and get along with and is responsive to your needs. Having a lawyer look at a contract would be almost as productive as getting a fortune-teller to do the same. But more expensive.
  
  This is where renting in a development by a known company may pay off. They are very aware of the power of social media and word of mouth and the Big Mango is a highly competitive real estate market right now. They tend to have better project management, more professional staff, and better maintenance as a project ages. The flip-side is that an older building may be more affordable and, more importantly, larger than a lot of the new ones which are smaller than a typical hotel room.
  Reply
  Jun 28, 2021 at 10:51 pm
Robert Norris says
May 11, 2021 at 10:31 pm
I am retiring to Pattaya in June. Very interessed in buying a condo. I can't seem to get any answers as to costs involved buying one. Is it based on the cost of the condo or which way the wind is blowning at the time?
I have seen some info putting the costs at about 12%. I would like to take advantage of the situation at the moment
Reply
May 11, 2021 at 10:31 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  May 11, 2021 at 10:49 pm
  I believe it's just the transfer fee, which is 2% of the property’s registered value. This is often split between buyer and seller on new condos, though is generally considered the buyer's responsibility.
  Reply
  May 11, 2021 at 10:49 pm
- Richard says
  May 18, 2021 at 1:45 pm
  I bought during covid and the seller picked up all fees. I also got it at a reduced price. Ver smooth process, I would highly recommend Magna Carta legal for the transaction.
  Reply
  May 18, 2021 at 1:45 pm
Alf says
April 16, 2021 at 7:51 am
Hi Peter, what is your opinion on buying a condo in Bangkok and using it as airbnb most of the time and then when I go for holiday there use it myself? Are there any reliable airbnb management companies you would recommend?
Reply
Apr 16, 2021 at 7:51 am
- TheThailandLife says
  April 16, 2021 at 5:00 pm
  It's a good idea, but illegal, unfortunately. Under the Hotel Act, you can't rent a condo on a daily or weekly basis. People still do it, but you can get fined.
  Reply
  Apr 16, 2021 at 5:00 pm
  - Frank Peeters says
    May 9, 2021 at 4:32 pm
    what about if the condominium rents it out for you?
    Reply
    May 09, 2021 at 4:32 pm
    - TheThailandLife says
      May 10, 2021 at 3:57 pm
      Condominium buildings can only do monthly rentals because otherwise they are operating like a hotel.
      Reply
      May 10, 2021 at 3:57 pm
  - Phuket says
    May 9, 2021 at 6:53 pm
    I don't think this is 100% accurate. I was under the impression as long as you don't own more than 3 units short term rentals are allowed.
    
    I contacted Sansiri on the subject since they advertised ownership in Chang Mai for one local through airbnb. As a sales pitch. Their reply aligned to this.
    
    However the rules for the condiminium might disallow for multiple reasons.
    
    Here is a wite up on same. https://www.thailand-property.com/blog/is-airbnb-legal-in-thailand
    
    No affiliation
    Reply
    May 09, 2021 at 6:53 pm
    - TheThailandLife says
      May 10, 2021 at 3:56 pm
      There seems to be a few interpretations of the law and perhaps there are some loopholes/a grey area, but the 2018 ruling was pretty clear. There's an explanation of that ruling here: https://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2018/06/24/thai-law-case-closed-on-airbnb-heres-why-it-wont-matter/
      Reply
      May 10, 2021 at 3:56 pm
      - Phuket says
        July 16, 2021 at 7:04 am
        Thank you I will run this past Sansiri again.
        Reply
        Jul 16, 2021 at 7:04 am
  - Alf says
    May 12, 2021 at 4:22 am
    Hi Peter, does that mean all those Airbnb listings for condos in BKK are in fact illegal? And if so is enforcement of the law lax?
    Reply
    May 12, 2021 at 4:22 am
    - TheThailandLife says
      May 12, 2021 at 4:34 pm
      I don't know. All I know is that short term rentals of less than 30 days are illegal in Thailand unless the owner has a license to operate a hotel.
      Reply
      May 12, 2021 at 4:34 pm
    - Hugh says
      July 16, 2021 at 5:44 pm
      Hi Peter,
      Good to know that the Premiership isn't decided on penalties, not that that's ever going to be an Arsenal issue, so you won't need to rush out and buy some pen. takers.
      Regarding the Airbnb issue, when I was at Ivy Condos, there were big posters everywhere around the buildings explaining the Hotel law etc, and small posters displayed in the lifts.
      However, it suggested / implied that it was those RENTING the apartments that were liable to prosecution rather than the Thai owners. At Ivy, the receptionist (paid scammer) issued the keys and door / lifts security swipe cards for the AirBNB clients, and blatantly took place.
      I believe that the hotel law is in place to protect the Thai hotel industry, but a mainly blind eye is shown to the Thai condo owners.
      It allows the local Police to fine the unknowing tourist who gets trapped by this scheme, so everyone's happy. It's not called Land of Smiles for nothing.
      Reply
      Jul 16, 2021 at 5:44 pm
Ian says
April 7, 2021 at 8:13 pm
Hi TTL, great article, well written; thanks. I was 50/50 on buying a condo in the T77 compound (On Nut) in Bangkok. Now I'm not so sure. For the 3-4 months I'd spend there initially (and probably not renting it out) it just doesn't make sense. Well, it does, in that I wouldn't be throwing money away in rent but with the 60-70K I'd spend in cash it'd appear safer to stick it in an ISA (over a few years) and watch it grow with the market. I'd trust my money in the market over a Thai condo every day of the week. Thanks again, enjoyable read*

*except for the explanations of poor worker training and safety
Reply
Apr 07, 2021 at 8:13 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  April 7, 2021 at 8:42 pm
  Thanks Ian. If it's not an investment then I think you'd really have to be in love with the area and see yourself living/visiting there for the next 20 years to justify it. If you plan on staying in Thailand permanently you could rent it out if you decide to move to another area, but the rental market is increasingly competitive, so how long would it be before you saw a return on investment? That said, there's probably a lot of room for negotiation on price in the current COVID market - so you might get a bargain.
  Reply
  Apr 07, 2021 at 8:42 pm
  - Ian Armstrong says
    April 8, 2021 at 3:01 pm
    Thanks, makes sense. My gut feel is renting is better for me, even though I always prefer to own property. Just can't see the numbers stacking up to warrant the investment as it has to be all cash. Cheers. Have a great day.
    Reply
    Apr 08, 2021 at 3:01 pm
- Matt says
  July 15, 2021 at 11:44 pm
  Finally someone with common sense. Buying vs renting is a no brained. Never buy because things always change. For what you buy something for you could rent for 15-20 years and by that time everyone has a change of plans.
  Reply
  Jul 15, 2021 at 11:44 pm
Tim Mullin says
February 16, 2021 at 4:08 pm
Yet again, well-written advice from the inside - thanks TTL!
I'm kind of hoping that the dire warnings on build-quality and fixtures/fittings aren't as significant, when looking at a well-established condo, say 5 years old or more. You'd think any snagging problems would've been addressed - although I realise pool and mainteneance problems can be timeless!
Thanks again, Peter.
Reply
Feb 16, 2021 at 4:08 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  February 16, 2021 at 6:03 pm
  Generally speaking, the more upscale a project the better the quality of decor. On a new build you might be given the choice to go for better fittings. This is standard across the world I guess; I mean it's not like cheap fittings and fixtures aren't used in Western countries. Sure, the building standards are higher but there's still an emphasis on most new builds to keep costs down by making it look as pretty as possible at minimum budget. Thailand also suffers from the extreme heat, which will affect flooring and paintwork and can cause mould issues in the bathroom - where ventilation is an issue. The good news is that labour is cheap in Thailand and decorating a second hand condo won't work out too expensively. That said, it would be better to pay a bit more for labour and make sure the job is done to a high standard - especially the electrics!The other advantage to buying second hand is that after say 5-10 years (more like 10), any structural issues should have already come to light. So no nasty surprises, you hope.
  Reply
  Feb 16, 2021 at 6:03 pm
  - Tim Mullin says
    February 16, 2021 at 6:43 pm
    Kop khun khap :)
    Reply
    Feb 16, 2021 at 6:43 pm
  - Hugh says
    February 16, 2021 at 7:32 pm
    Hi Pete,
    I see Arsenal are up to 10th now.
    Chelsea into 4th, automatic C.L place.
    Luis and Will-iam-shy*e are still playing for Chelsea I guess.
    Just to let you know that earlier today I received most of my deposit back from our condo management team, after my G.F had given notice to quit last November (although she moved out early January due to flight cancellations).
    Either way, well outside he 30 days stated in the contract.
    The condo in question was at Ivy Riverside, Ratburana, Bkk.
    A nice residence, but full of Thai scammers running the show.
    I could list a lot of shananagens which I witnessed / experienced, but whats the point?
    However,as a legitimate service to the "F*****g caucasian farangs" (Thai Health Minister) could you add a specific area of your site which would identify the good and bad experiences of condo renting in Thailand?
    A genuine service to Farang, warning them prior to "signing on the dotted line" as to the pitfalls of badly run condos due to scamming management
    teams, submitted by the members of your site.
    I found that Ivy Condo was constantly advertised on Air BNB, and the apartments being leased out for weekend sex. Despite being illegal in the Land of Scams. All the security building swipe cards and room keys being issued on behalf of the owners by the management staff. Bungs to the Local Police for what ever reasons by said same staff.
    Farang being Billed for "damage" done, rather than due to Health & Safety / negligence issues by the Management staff.
    Those found guilty of "dishonesty" can not be involved in Condo management by Thai Law. Allegedly.
    I feel that someone needs to give a record (website) of genuine, honest accounts of their condo renting experiences, good or bad, out there for the protection of all us gullible Farang from the scamming little shy*tes who love to smile, when in Thailand.
    Rant over.
    Regards,
    Hugh
    
    P.S
    Don't forget to shower.
    We need to stop the spread of covid.
    That will help.
    Reply
    Feb 16, 2021 at 7:32 pm
    - TheThailandLife says
      February 17, 2021 at 12:21 am
      Still in the Europa :)I have a post about deposits and how to make sure you get your money back and avoid any scamming: https://www.thethailandlife.com/rent-deposit-thailand To be fair it's some landlords, not all, and happens the world over. But some will find a way to keep some of the deposit, or all! Sometimes it's justified though; people do damage apartments and they need redecorating. That said, some wear and tear has to be expected in the tenant is in there a long time.The bungs to local police is standard for protection. I found this out many years ago in Koh Samui. The landlord lived in my block and she explained the whole deal. The police are paid a monthly fee to prioritize the block when a situation occurs. For example, I got burgled and the police came within the hour. If the bung to police wasn't paid it may have taken a couple of days or longer, who knows. She said it wasn't compulsory but if you want good protection for your tenants then you pay it.Surely they weren't advertising the condos for the purpose of sex? Prostitution isn't illegal; it's the solicitation that is the offence. If a person rents a condo and invites another person over to have sex and gives them money, that isn't illegal.
      Reply
      Feb 17, 2021 at 12:21 am
      - Hugh says
        February 17, 2021 at 8:40 pm
        Still in the Europa ? Would that be the Europa in Belfast? No, never been there. Hammers (Irons) are up to 5th. Arsenal still 10th? Prostitution is unlawful. Proving it is difficult though. Paying for sex is against the law. I lost my house, pension and loads of cash when I got divorced. and the sex wasn't that good. I felt that I should of got a rebate. It was at that point that the Judge reminded me that it was an offence to pay for sex.
        Reply
        Feb 17, 2021 at 8:40 pm
- Ken F says
  May 3, 2021 at 12:32 pm
  You would actually be surprised to know just how bad things still are even in the newer buildings. The last time I was living in Phuket I was renting an ultra modern style house that was only a few years old and although everything looked great on the surface it was a different story behind the walls. I remember I had to get into the attic one day and while up there I noticed a few big problems right off the bat. First of all I could see the exposed brick work and it looked like it was done by a mentally retarded 5-year old child. I guess they figured that since the brick core of the wall will not normally be seen that it does not matter what it looks like, but when bricks are laid this sloppily it can actually affect the structural integrity of the walls. The other problem I noticed was with the main electrical panel. Normally to be safe and legal in the USA all the wires should run from their connections within the panel to the next fixture or outlet without any splices in between. In this case however all of the wires had been cut just a few inches past the panel and spliced together with other wires. It looked as if someone had been in a hurry to remove a previous panel and so just cut all the wires which meant that the wires would now be too short to run all the way into the new box. Of course the reason the panel had to be replaced in the first place is even more ridiculous. When we agreed to moved in the landlord promised to put an AC unit in the living/dinning/kitchen area (already had them in the bedrooms). Anyway, although a 15,000 BTU unit would have been more than sufficient for the space (by my own very expert calculations) the idiot AC people brought out a massive 50,000 BTU unit. As soon as they unloaded it I told the landlord that they had screwed up big time and, although I could see that she was not happy about this, in typical Thai fashion she refused to confront the guy about it and have him take it back. Here in the states when someone who is selling you something either screws up or just plain tries to cheat you, you have a right to call him out on it, but not in Thailand apparently. The bottom line is the thing needed more power than the house’s current electrical panel could handle so the panel had to be upgraded. And that was not the end of the problems. Since I had opted to do all the pool maintenance myself I noticed pretty early on the some of the pools plumbing was done incorrectly and so no surface water was being drawn though the skimmer baskets and into the main sand filter. I had to get the landlord to get some people out to redo it correctly.
  
  And of course I have noticed things like this in every place that I have ever lived in Thailand, including the first condo I ever rented long term. In that first place when I took my first shower I heard a loud pop and the hot water went out. When I removed the ceiling panel to take a look I noticed that the wires going from the electrical panel to the water heater were spliced in 3 or 4 places even though it was only about a 6-foot run. Not only that but there were not even any wire nuts on the wire connections. There was just bare wire twisted together and one of these was only about an inch from the water pipe, which means I could have easily been electrocuted while taking a shower. Just a few days after this some people from the property management office came by my apartment to check for water leaks because water was leaking into the unit below mine. Well I only had to wait a few days to find out where it had been coming from. One afternoon I heard a loud crash from next door and ran out to see what had happened. I saw my German next door neighbor in a bath towel standing in a pool of water and staring up at a huge hole in his ceiling (his front door was wide open for some reason). Apparently there had been a slow water leak in the ceiling of his apartment for some time and because of the tiled ceiling in the entry way and bathroom the water had just been pooling up there until the ceiling finally caved in under the weight of all that water. In any case, I soon noticed to my horror that water was still rushing out of the ceiling and was running right over the open faced electrical panel. The guy apparently did not speak English though because when I pointed to the electrical box and told him he might not want to be standing in that puddle of water barefoot under the circumstances he just continued to stand there in a daze like an idiot. I’m frankly amazed that he was not electrocuted that day.
  
  The bottom line is, if I ever buy a condo in Thailand I will have it completely gutted and remodel it from scratch, doing all of the plumbing and electrical myself to make sure its done right.
  Reply
  May 03, 2021 at 12:32 pm
Rob says
July 4, 2020 at 12:58 pm
Diamond Tower condos pattaya, a friend paid instalments for a condo there and apparently its not even being built and he cant get his money back? I still see it heing advertised on my agent websites, have you got any info on Diamond Tower pratamnak?
Thanks
Reply
Jul 04, 2020 at 12:58 pm
- Ralphie Boy says
  September 30, 2020 at 6:28 pm
  seems they are still a "project," with comments as far back as 2018. How long a "project" one might wonder. Run, away...fast.
  Reply
  Sep 30, 2020 at 6:28 pm
pramod k baniya says
May 7, 2020 at 8:36 pm
hello..i am planning to buy condo in pattaya for rental income and sometime go there and stay once in a year on my vacation...what u suggest..... there are so many real states... i couldnt decide..... what to do...[ 2 bed room and budget is around 50000$]....pls help...
Reply
May 07, 2020 at 8:36 pm
BARRY BOYCE says
February 26, 2020 at 4:46 am
Don't forget tightening of visa's can effect your resale price.
Dont forget Thais only want new units, so you are limited and controlled under the 51% condo building rule.
Don't forget they hardly go up in value so even if you break even and get your money back in 10 years time you lost say 2% on the interest you could have got in the bank for the whole time.
Reply
Feb 26, 2020 at 4:46 am
- Joe says
  April 26, 2020 at 7:08 pm
  Have you seen bank interest rates over the last 10 years vs the price increase of Bangkok property?
  Reply
  Apr 26, 2020 at 7:08 pm
  - Alboy says
    August 21, 2020 at 6:56 am
    Increase in the cost if new builds but very little increase in price if you bought a unit Pre-2000
    Reply
    Aug 21, 2020 at 6:56 am
- Alboy says
  August 21, 2020 at 6:51 am
  That's not true about Thais only wanting new units. To live in, yes, but as investments they'll buy anything at the right money.
  
  I recently sold a 21 year old unit to a Thai investor after luckily renting it out for 13 straight years. I have to say it was the worst investment I have ever made and the luckiest. I bought the unit at 72 baht to the pound and sold it at 39. I took a 16% loss in Thai baht after 13 years and made a 40% gain on the sale in GBP plus 13 years rent on top.
  
  Key point. After 13 years and at a time when the Thai economy was doing ok prices of old units had barely risen. Would I ever invest in Thailand again. Only if there is a massive recession and properties are selling for buttons.
  Reply
  Aug 21, 2020 at 6:51 am
rex potter says
April 11, 2019 at 11:02 am
I leased on a usufruct and the nicest Thai lady on earth let me sell it with no gimmicks after 4 years or so. It ended up costing me about 6000baht a month, but it was a permanent address with good parking but the building was falling apart. Also the noise factor became so horrific it was unbearable. The maintenance guy and his Thai wife would charge ridiculous prices for upgrades to anything. The pool was only usable 50% of the time due to algae or over toxic use of chemicals. Also 30% of the owners didn't pay their maintenance fees and rented out their units on Airbnb to dodgy sex deprived idiots and other noisy partygoers who could care less about the premises. Was it worth it? Maybe for a a while but it became unlivable due to all of the bove factors.
Reply
Apr 11, 2019 at 11:02 am
- Hugh says
  April 12, 2019 at 12:53 am
  Rex,
  Please name and shame this place.
  Air BnB has ruined many a fine establishment.
  Where is this place?
  Some reputable condo owners will pursue that unlawful behaviour through the Thai courts.
  So, Name and Shame
  Reply
  Apr 12, 2019 at 12:53 am
Craig says
January 29, 2019 at 12:43 pm
I rent a lovely condo in a gated complex, when I signed the contract all I could see out of my windows was grass, a lake, trees, and a mountain. The next planned phase of development for the complex has now started, now I get to see buildings being built that will take away some of those views. I contacted the owner and told him "drop the rent or I'd walk and find somewhere else".

I negotiated a 25% drop in rent and will move out at the end of the contract, it's still OK but the grass has gone, it's now a building site and over the next 12 months I won't see most of the lake.
But the owner's income is now 25% under his planned income, and will never reach that again having lost part of the stunning views his condo had. If he drops his rental price by another 25% I might stay another year, I like the area, but 50% under his planned rental income, that's no longer a good return. Actually he's lucky, 2 condos in this building are now empty because the renters have left due to the predicted building noise, so he's better off to some extent, he's still getting something.

Areas change, we all know from experiences in our home countries, all it takes is a grotty family moving into the area, an old church hall to become a drugs rehab centre, or the field next to our street becoming an affordable housing project, and the idyll we had is an impossible to sell nightmare.

Renting allows you to move with the times, so I'll throw away my money by renting nice places every year or two.
Reply
Jan 29, 2019 at 12:43 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  January 29, 2019 at 7:09 pm
  Spot on. Areas do change and, like you suggest, back home there are areas now considered run down that used to be considered well-to-do. The problem in Thailand, particularly the major cities, is that planning permission regulations seem to be non-existent. I've viewed condos where you can almost reach across the balcony and touch the opposite block. So a seemingly good investment today may seem like a nightmare one a few years down the line. At least you have retained the luxury to be able to move, and to negotiate.
  Reply
  Jan 29, 2019 at 7:09 pm
  - Murick says
    April 15, 2020 at 6:57 am
    Hi. I really want to keep in touch with you before investment. May you help me please?!
    Reply
    Apr 15, 2020 at 6:57 am
Lana Fox says
January 15, 2019 at 6:27 pm
Thank you for detailed information. I read that most foreign investors prefer Phuket. Can you tell me why this island? Why not Samui or Krabi area?
Reply
Jan 15, 2019 at 6:27 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  January 16, 2019 at 7:12 pm
  That link you posted is from a Phuket real estate agent, so obviously they have self-interest. Phuket is the biggest island so it stands to reason that most of the investment happens there, but Samui is still very popular because it isn't as busy and retains a more island-like feel to it. Phuket is very popular with Chinese investors, and to a lesser extent Russian investors.
  Reply
  Jan 16, 2019 at 7:12 pm
- Blair says
  April 29, 2020 at 2:27 pm
  I find which is better depends on when you are most lkely to travel... Phuket and Samui being on opposite sides of the peninsula have different monsoon seasons. For example if you typically holiday Sept/Oct Phuket is wet wet wet while you can easily beech & water sport it on Samui
  Reply
  Apr 29, 2020 at 2:27 pm
- Matt says
  July 19, 2021 at 2:14 am
  Because Phuket is accessible by a bridge and it has way more to offer. It’s as simple as that
  Reply
  Jul 19, 2021 at 2:14 am
  - Ken F says
    July 19, 2021 at 5:03 am
    Well, if I were buying a property in Thailand strictly for the purposes of renting it out I might choose Phuket myself since, personal preferences aside, it probably has the widest range of appeal to the largest number of people. Still, I’m not sure what being connected by a bridge has to do with anything. I lived in Phuket for a year and in all that time I only crossed that bridge once. Usually when I traveled I was either taking a boat to the other islands in the area or I was traveling by plane to places like Chiang Mai or Bangkok. Lets face it, nobody takes a road trip from Bangkok to Phuket, particularly considering how cheap it is to fly there. And the main reason non-Thais cross that bridge in the first place is (or was) to do visa runs to Myanmar. In any case, if the bridge did not exist it would have absolutely zero affect on the number or tourist visiting the island every year. And I don’t think I recall ever hearing anyone saying they did not want to visit a poplar island like Ko Chang or Ko Samet simply because they had to take a ferry to get the last couple of miles there. It is true of course that the lack of a bridge can effect the price of goods on an island but I don't think this would factor into my decision when buying an investment property on Phuket.
    Reply
    Jul 19, 2021 at 5:03 am
    - Matt says
      July 19, 2021 at 9:43 am
      Well I like to take my car and stop along the way and stay in different places from korat to Phuket as well as anywhere else in Thailand. Sure you can take a plane pretty much anywhere you want to go but your missing out on all of all of what Thailand has to offer by doing that. I guess everyone has their own preference. I am not all about getting from point A to point B as fast as I can I suppose. Life is all about the journey my friend. And like I also said which was most important…Phuket has way much more to offer so yeah you can invest in Ko samui or Ko pha ngan etc but they are less attractive to the person who is only coming here for a short period of time. These people who come here for a week or two want to cram in as much as they can in a short period of time. Taking a day trip to Ko samui and back cuts into that so it’s not so appealing to this type of vacationer. There is way more to do and see in Phuket so yes you get more bang for your buck visiting Phuket. I’m not trying to preach to the choir as you already seem to know a lot about this place already. Personally I wouldn’t buy anything in Thailand because it’s much cheaper in the end just to rent. This place is one big bubble that’s ready to pop. They keep building properties with no one renting so something has to give. It’s unsustainable and as you have already pointed out it’s like rolling the dice when it comes to the quality of workmanship put into these places they are putting up. Yes they look great on the surface but behind the walls lies god only knows. Anyways I’m just ranting now and again you seem very aware of what’s going on here so I’ll say no more.
      Reply
      Jul 19, 2021 at 9:43 am
      - Ken F says
        July 23, 2021 at 11:23 am
        Well, I would have to agree with you that Phuket would be the place to buy if you were going to buy. But I also agree that it’s better to rent in virtually every case in Thailand. I would certainly never buy a place in Thailand strictly for investment purposes. And - as I mentioned in an earlier post - even if buying for myself as a personal residence, the only reason I would ever even consider buying in Thailand in the first place is because it’s a virtual impossibility that I would find any rentals in my price range – or even out of it - that are well enough designed for me to be happy living in them. And naturally buying is the only choice that allows you to remodel the place from scratch. Most Thai architects just do not seem to have a knack for efficient use of space in their designs – skills that I picked up way back in first year architecture.
        
        As for the Thai real estate market being in a bubble that is about to collapse, well, I have been hearing that exact same thing for the past 20 years now so its hard for me to put much stock in that belief – although there does seem to be a very real bubble here in the USA at the moment. And of course its worth noting that the price-to-rent ratio is well over 30 in Phuket at the moment– twice that of Pattaya – and a high number is often indicative of a bubble. For those who are unfamiliar, the price-to-rent ratio is a tool that is used to determine if it is better to buy or rent at a given point in time in a given area. In the USA I believe that anything below 16 signals that its definitely better to buy than rent – Los Angeles, Ca is currently near 40 and San Francisco, Ca is over 50. The number is arrived at by dividing the median home price by the median annual rent. So if the cost-to-rent ratio is 30 in Phuket then a place that rents for 16,500 Baht per month should be priced at about 6 million Baht. And if this number for an individual piece of real estate is way off the average – which I see often in Pattaya and Phuket – then it means that the rent is either way too high or too low, or the asking price is way to high or too low. Sometimes I think people in Thailand just pull their rental prices and asking prices out of their rear ends rather than by carefully researching the comps in the area.
        
        Anyway, if I had $200,000 set aside for a retirement condo in Phuket and I decided to invest in the stock market instead – and assuming I get the average 10% yearly return over the long run – I would have about 1.4 million dollars at the end of 20 years time. And even when I subtract the $132,000 I would have paid in rent over 20 years for the same place, that still leaves me with well over a million dollars. So, the question is would that $200,000 condo in Phuket (200k plus condo fees) now be worth over a million dollars. Somehow I don’t think so.
        
        Still if I can find a fixer-upper that is WAY under-priced I might still consider the buying and remodeling option. Who knows.
        
        By the way, I actually traveled around quite a bit by road when in Thailand, particularly when staying in places like Chang Mai. In Phuket however all my favorite beaches and favorite free diving spots are right there on the island so I did not really feel the need to take many road trips. Also, way back when, when I first started coming to Thailand the road between Bangkok and Phuket was not considered to be that safe. Apparently in places where the highway gets close to the border with Myanmar there used to be bandits that would rob bus passengers or others at gunpoint. In any case, I did often consider riding to Krabi rather than taking a boat but I just never got around to it. And its probably for the best because if my then girlfriend had gotten into one of her moods along the way I would have been tempted to just leave her in the middle of nowhere.
        Reply
        Jul 23, 2021 at 11:23 am
Arnizzle says
January 12, 2019 at 3:10 pm
There are some flaws in the article. When renting out a place it’s not about “getting your money back in X years”, it’s about the return you get from your investment. Currently my bank gives me 0,15% interest. Renting out a place will give you more interest AND you have property. Even if the value goes down a little bit, the bottom line can potentially be better.
Reply
Jan 12, 2019 at 3:10 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  January 13, 2019 at 4:16 am
  It's not a flaw, because only after you recoup your investment do you start to make a profit. And even then, you need to factor in inflation. It doesn't matter if your projection on paper tells you you're making 5% interest a year if you never recoup your investment. By the time that you do, your condo might be so old that no one is interested in renting it, at least not for anything like the amount you want.
  Reply
  Jan 13, 2019 at 4:16 am
  - Hugh says
    January 13, 2019 at 12:34 pm
    Hi.
    
    Does any farang REALLY think seriously about "investing" in Thai property? making the big bucks that they fail to do in their home country?
    
    Surely the reason is just to offer stability / security / commitment to their new found life / love(s)?
    
    If any one is serious about making an income to any degree from being a Landlord, then Thailand is surely not the place. Try being a Landlord in London for example. No "discriminatory" farang laws there for buying property either.
    
    However, due to the strict rules here, we can enjoy the low / value for money renting costs compared to our home countries rates.
    
    It all appears to be horses for courses.
    Reply
    Jan 13, 2019 at 12:34 pm
    - TheThailandLife says
      January 14, 2019 at 3:40 am
      Of course. The real estate investor – get 6-10% yield – dream is alive and well in most countries of the world, and few people buy a property without first considering its worth as an investment.
      Reply
      Jan 14, 2019 at 3:40 am
      - Hugh says
        January 16, 2019 at 11:11 pm
        Investments???????????
        
        Lets do the maths.
        
        The condo to which I refer is at a "bargain" price of 1.2m thb.
        
        Without spending a hal'penny to replace the existing awful interior "design" or upgraded the dodgy existing plumbing arrangements, and assuming I rented the property out immediately (the going rate being 5,500 thb a month), if I spent nothing on the usual "wear and tear" issues for the very long but forseeable future on behalf of the tenant/s, I would not see any return on my "investment" for at least 18.18 years.
        
        Statistically, I'll be dead by then.
        
        Thats not an investment. Thats an act of charity.
        
        Or I could just spend my money in a much lesser time in Thailand and have a really great time.
        
        A REAL estate investor??????
        
        Arsenal supporter more like.
        
        Full of dreams. Thats kinda cute, but just dreams. Pipe dreams.
        Reply
        Jan 16, 2019 at 11:11 pm
        
        TheThailandLife says
        January 17, 2019 at 2:06 am
        My sentiments exactly.
        Reply
        Jan 17, 2019 at 2:06 am
        
        Arnizzle says
        January 17, 2019 at 3:14 pm
        Using your own math, that would be around 5.5% interest on your money on a yearly basis. I get 0.15% at my bank right now.
        Reply
        Jan 17, 2019 at 3:14 pm
        
        Hugh says
        January 17, 2019 at 7:51 pm
        Basically, the rent money from the previously quoted deal i.e as you suggest is @ 5.5% of my "investment", but in real terms the hard cash is 5,500 thb & isn't enough to see me through a decent weekend.
        I feel we have different opinions on what a good deal actually is.
        Personally, I don't see renting my property out in Thailand would be worth doing if it is purely to make money.
        5.5% off@ck all is not enough to bother about.
        It would take over 20 years to realistically make enough gains to have a good weekend out in Thailand. A hotel can cost more than that for 1 night.
        But perhaps its not your hard earned cash that you want to invest in such a scheme / scam.
        Reply
        Jan 17, 2019 at 7:51 pm
        
        TheThailandLife says
        January 17, 2019 at 8:06 pm
        The condo market (foreigner-targeted, particularly on the island of Phuket) is largely propped up by money pouring in from China. Needless to say, this money isn't always legit and they just need somewhere to put it. It's either risk losing it back home or export it and spread it around. Thailand is a great place to do that. The same is happening in Laos.
        Reply
        Jan 17, 2019 at 8:06 pm
        
        Hugh says
        January 17, 2019 at 8:22 pm
        Hi. I have no desire to go to Phuket, but Chinese money is buying up the world at the moment. London included. Look at Africa. A whole continent indebted to the financial "assistance" of the Chinese super power.
        From my own recent experience though, its very difficult, even if it's allowed, to transfer money back to your account outside Thailand, i.e International Transfer. Farang put their money into Thailand, Farang do Not take it out.
        Also, there are strict restrictions on getting money into Thailand to pay for the condo. In my recent experience I will retain any serious cash I have in my U.K accounts, and then comply with the Thai rules and regulations involved, as and when and if. It's the legitimate Thai response to money laundering I'm informed. Which made me laugh when you think of all the P.L & EFL clubs which are now Thai owned. Do as we say, not as we do i feel. But that's for another day.....
        Reply
        Jan 17, 2019 at 8:22 pm
        
        TheThailandLife says
        January 18, 2019 at 6:33 pm
        Indeed. To buy a condo you simply need an FET. You transfer your money to Thailand and the bank issues the FET to prove the money came from your account abroad.
        Jan 18, 2019 at 6:33 pm
        
        Hugh says
        January 18, 2019 at 6:45 pm
        "....you simply need an FET. " 55555555 Before that, you must have stipulated on your money transfer into your Thai bank account, the reason from the drop down menu that the money is SPECIFICALLY for the purchase of a property. No other reason, if you stated that purpose, then the FET may be issued. Also, the bank wont like multiple transfers to have to trawl through. My solicitors advice was to return all my money in my Thai account back to my London a/c and then transfer it back to the Thai a/c , in just 1 big transfer, with the specific reason "to buy property".
        Similar advice was also given by a senior sales rep at a new Lumpini build we visited recently.
        Jan 18, 2019 at 6:45 pm
        
        TheThailandLife says
        January 18, 2019 at 6:47 pm
        Well, yes, generally people transfer in one lump, but arranging a few transfers is no problem if it's a huge amount. My good friend in real estate here in Bangkok told me how one Chinese guy bought a 38m condo. He paid cash. No need for an FET on that one no doubt. Palm greasing....
        Jan 18, 2019 at 6:47 pm
  - Ralphie Boy says
    September 30, 2020 at 6:51 pm
    all the empty buildings in Pattaya sorta sez it all
    Reply
    Sep 30, 2020 at 6:51 pm
- M says
  February 16, 2019 at 11:15 pm
  Lol what moron keeps his money in a bank as a way to invest? Anyone who invested in the stock market since it last crashed has at least doubled their money if not tripled or quadrupled it.
  Reply
  Feb 16, 2019 at 11:15 pm
- Alboy says
  August 21, 2020 at 7:04 am
  You are actually advocating a potentially bad investment with little capital appreciation because it offers a better rate of return than your bank interest rate. I think it's fair to assume that you're a danger to yourself
  Reply
  Aug 21, 2020 at 7:04 am
Hugh says
November 2, 2018 at 10:50 pm
Hi,
I'm in a position to perhaps buy a condo within the block which my g.f, son, and I rent.

it would make good financial sense from saving the rents etc, and could be a sort of investment for our boy.

BUT..................................

I believe most Thais are up for a bit of dishonesty / fraud if it goes their way.

Therefore...................

Can any one recommend a true and honest solicitor / Lawyer in the BKK area? from their own experiences, not because they own / work there.

Has anyone tried the Siam Legal company of Solicitors, also available in U.K and other places outside of Thailand.

Any good experiences of them to tell?

Any advice ( even DON'T DO IT ) would be appreciated.
Reply
Nov 02, 2018 at 10:50 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  November 5, 2018 at 10:05 pm
  Hi Hugh,I can vouch for Siam Legal. There are many cheaper lawyers but they are reputable. I once sought their advice on my "work situation" and they were very helpful. My advice would be to consider:1. Can you see yourselves staying there for the next 10, 15, 20 years? 2. How long will it take to make back your investment? 3. Is the property desirable rental? What sort of occupancy could you expect if you did move on and decide to rent it? 4. Is your son's long term plan to stay in Thailand? Handling a rental from outside Thailand could be a hassle, especially if the ROI is small. 5. What sort of condition is the block in? What sort of condition is it likely to be in in 15 years from now, still a desirable rental?
  Reply
  Nov 05, 2018 at 10:05 pm
  - Hugh says
    November 5, 2018 at 11:03 pm
    Hi,
    
    Thanks for your prompt reply.
    
    I just felt I needed re-assurance from someone more experienced in the "Thai Culture" way of doing things than relying on my 1st attempt alone.
    
    I'm glad to hear your positives about Siam Legal.
    
    With regards your further questions:-
    
    1) I f***8g hope not. But life can be cruel. Expect the worst.
    2) Knowing these c***'s, NEVER. Just do the maths yourself. Accommodation is just SOOOOO cheap here.
    3) Desirable?????? Please define.........
    4) My son's long term plan seems to be to carry on destroying all things around him by smashing them on the floor. So why change?
    The U.K Government Racism Policy however, is to keep him (and his kind) in Thailand.
    5) The block is about 10 years old. Local builder I'm assured, and like most Thai condos, could do with some T.L.C but that said, it'll do.
    I believe that there will always be more of an "entry level" condo demand than a numpties rich bollocks condo.
    
    And don't forget, the sky train is a'commin' to these pards. Yeeee Hi.....
    
    In15 - 20 years time it will look complete shyte.
    Thus blending in with the rest of BKK, a massive selling point I'm sure.
    
    The plan is that if / when I go, my son and his mum can stay in their home / local area / school and not need to worry about being kicked out of their home while dealing with my untimely / belated demise.
    
    That's it really.
    
    We talk about the g.f getting a Thai mortgage in a few years, and getting a house / land somewhere nice, outside of BBk. We both like H.H or Cha Am.
    
    But we need to get rid of her Debts / loans.
    
    So this might give her a rent free, bigger sq. meters housing while breaking free of the Thai system of Gov. Control / yer f*****ed for life policy, from her early teens. I believe this is a Team Effort.
    Or I could just play on her emotions and really rack up the rent. Who knows?
    
    I'm told "never let them know you're worth more to them dead, than still being alive". A Leeds United manager lasts a lot longer they say.
    
    Thanks again for the Siam Legal heads up.
    
    Remember, There's only one real football club in North London.
    Unless you're counting Barnet.
    Reply
    Nov 05, 2018 at 11:03 pm
    - TheThailandLife says
      November 5, 2018 at 11:11 pm
      By desirable I meant how attractive it would be if you decided to rent it later down the line. Is it in an area close to transport links, malls, parks, etc.Your son would get a British passport based on you being a British citizen, no problem there (assuming you are the biological father).You'd be talking about Arsenal then. Good man.
      Reply
      Nov 05, 2018 at 11:11 pm
      - Hugh says
        November 6, 2018 at 12:58 am
        The last time I was in London Woolwich was definitely SOUTH.
        
        Barnet on the other hand..........
        
        Or Tottenham?
        Reply
        Nov 06, 2018 at 12:58 am
        
        TheThailandLife says
        November 6, 2018 at 1:12 am
        Well, I have roots in South but grew up North, so I have good reason to support the best team currently based in North London. Spurs? They haven't won the FA Cup since 1991, or the league since 1961!
        Reply
        Nov 06, 2018 at 1:12 am
        
        Hugh says
        November 6, 2018 at 1:20 am
        Yes.
        
        "Based". Exactly. Wheres the history from?????
        
        Sarrrfffff Lundun.
        
        You're just trying to split hairs.
        
        Dream on.
        
        Next you'll be saying Wayne "bollockschops" Rooney will rise to play for England again.
        
        Fantasy Football. Not the real MaCoy.
        Reply
        Nov 06, 2018 at 1:20 am
        
        TheThailandLife says
        November 6, 2018 at 1:23 am
        Haha. Typical Spurs fan.
        Reply
        Nov 06, 2018 at 1:23 am
    - Alboy says
      August 21, 2020 at 7:12 am
      Bit of advice. Spend the money and use an international law firm. Either put the property in trust for your son or make a will making him the beneficiary.
      
      The UK government is not racist but their immigration policy is a disgrace. It used to be if you were married, nothing could stop you bringing your wife here but now it's an absolute headache.
      Reply
      Aug 21, 2020 at 7:12 am
Gerardus says
September 17, 2018 at 8:55 am
I bought a condo i week ago ive since found i cannot afford it is there a cooling off period in thailand i left a deposit.regards gerardus iam so stressed i m not worried about losing the deposit
Reply
Sep 17, 2018 at 8:55 am
Steve says
August 11, 2018 at 9:06 pm
My own experience has been really good. Nine years ago I rented a condo in Jomtien, Pattaya for 6 months in a 12 year old building and came to appreciate what it had to offer, which was that it was quiet (no ground-floor bars and far enough from the road not to have traffic noise) and yet was within a couple of hundred yards of restaurants, bars, shops, and a regular baht-bus service into town. After my six months I decided to buy and am living happily ever after.
Reply
Aug 11, 2018 at 9:06 pm
- Orchid says
  September 1, 2018 at 10:05 pm
  Do u interest to invest condominium at Onnut area?
  Reply
  Sep 01, 2018 at 10:05 pm
  - Alan says
    October 4, 2018 at 5:55 pm
    what have you in on nut. Is this near Suhkumvit 50?
    
    Alan
    Reply
    Oct 04, 2018 at 5:55 pm
- Arnold says
  September 7, 2018 at 3:35 am
  How did you finance?
  Reply
  Sep 07, 2018 at 3:35 am
Irene says
June 14, 2018 at 1:51 pm
I bought Arcadia Beach Continental at Pattaya by developer, Height Holding. I paid around $15K Singapore Dollars. But the VP, Oliver cancel my unit and sold to other. The issue is merely I said him sales man not a professional and this Mother fucker actually called and scolded me. I then told him that the fault lies from this salesman. Now I can’t even 1 cent back. I love this condominium but I lost everything. So be careful even when the developer is famous. I can’t do anything. But, kindly let me know if there are other ways that I can seek help. Height Holding have the best Lawyer in Pattaya, mind you. I shouldn’t sign the contract so soon.
Reply
Jun 14, 2018 at 1:51 pm
Andy says
June 14, 2018 at 8:02 am
I think I'd give up get a condo in Pattaya, thanks for your reality.
Reply
Jun 14, 2018 at 8:02 am
Dave O'Sullivan says
May 9, 2018 at 5:03 pm
Enjoyed your article, very informative and truthful. I've always rented in S.E.A. Its a no brainer really. Well done for recognising and highlighting the efforts of the poor building workers also.
Wonderful insights in this whole document.
regards Dave.
Reply
May 09, 2018 at 5:03 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  May 10, 2018 at 8:08 pm
  Cheers Dave.
  Reply
  May 10, 2018 at 8:08 pm
  - Neil Fleming says
    June 16, 2018 at 12:50 am
    Hi I dont think you are being at all fair. You raised the poor quality of the facia on buildings. Did you not see in the news the entire building in the center of london burn to the ground killing so many people. Apparently poor materials and tradesmen to blame and maybe many hundreds of buildings throughout the UK could also be disasters waiting to happen. I watch Kevin Mcleods grand designs and am amazed anything gets built in uk given the antics of council planners. See owners go to poland for glass because british factories not capable. Houses built in german factories and then shipped along with german work gangs to complete in a fraction of the time. Please dont get me wrong. What you have said is correct but it is just wrong to say it is a thai issue. Buyer beware wherever you are.
    Reply
    Jun 16, 2018 at 12:50 am
Vicki Coghlan says
May 1, 2018 at 12:11 pm
Farung pay more because there farung. How is this fair??? You can never trust thai people when it comes to money. They are snakes in a snake pit.
Reply
May 01, 2018 at 12:11 pm
- Neil Fleming says
  June 13, 2018 at 4:45 pm
  Don't go that will fix the problem
  Reply
  Jun 13, 2018 at 4:45 pm
- Neil Fleming says
  June 13, 2018 at 5:06 pm
  Vicki Coughlan what a stupid and racist comment. That would be the same as me saying all english lads and older are all like Sir James Saville Obe..
  
  Worried about the sake of thai workers keep your drunk lads and dirty old men from using their slight economic advantage to abuse young girls who come from poverty.
  Reply
  Jun 13, 2018 at 5:06 pm
Barry BOYCE says
April 25, 2018 at 12:27 am
Better to buy in your home country then use the rent to lease a place in thai
Reply
Apr 25, 2018 at 12:27 am
Ryan says
March 16, 2018 at 10:11 pm
Love your article. Very insightful for someone looking to invest in a condo in Bangkok
Reply
Mar 16, 2018 at 10:11 pm
Tomas says
February 18, 2018 at 3:33 pm
Hello all,
I must say you helped me think. But as you mentioned, I am in a passionate phase about buying something in Thailand.
I want to diverse my risk, though. I am now looking for some partners and investors to purchase few condos in Pattaya. Obviously, its very hard to guess which way the market is going, but this place seems to me with some potential. Paradoxly, the prices are the same as in Bangkok, after a small research.
For me, its just a reason to have some kind of a business with Thailand to have a legitimate reason to keep coming :). What do you, guys, think? :)
Have a great day,
Tom, Czech rep.
Reply
Feb 18, 2018 at 3:33 pm
- John says
  May 13, 2018 at 1:33 pm
  My best friend and I had the misfortune of buying a condo Say Yuan Buri in Rawai Phuket . The developer refused to surrender our title so we enlisted and lawyer and took to court . I’m out abscece he removed our property and leased our condo out at hotel rates . He has been charged with fraud and theft but as yet is yet to face any charges . Despite the fact that we had paid for our property we were not allowed access of our own property as it was still legally the Develper . Many court battles later the Developer has gone bankrupt and we have bot seen one baht of our money . The police and the courts did FA for us .
  My advice DO NOT buy off the plan but only re sales ( ie with Chanote - tile deed)
  No title deed means Yhe property under this law is still the develper and if he descided to evict you expect the local authorities to do very little .
  Very distressing experience that had left me bitter about a country I so loved .
  
  BUYER BEWARE is all I can say !!!!
  Reply
  May 13, 2018 at 1:33 pm
Akina says
February 11, 2018 at 1:09 pm
Thank you so much for your two articles on this! It’s so helpful. You have really changed my mind from buying in Bangkok. No idea about the reality of the secondary market, since it’s never the case here in the UK or US. Anyway, thank you!
Reply
Feb 11, 2018 at 1:09 pm
chris says
January 22, 2018 at 10:16 am
So I want to buy a condo for my retirement, I have a property in Australia paid off and I want to rent it out while I live in a condo somewhere in thailand, I will add that I will be purchasing the condo with no added interest or loans, cash that I have saved up. what are the risks of losing my property? will it be there for ever so I can keep or sell one day iff I choose, or will I buy it and somehow lose it.
Reply
Jan 22, 2018 at 10:16 am
- Phuket says
  January 22, 2018 at 10:00 pm
  Hey Chris,
  
  If you can get an retirement visa and make sure you buy an freehold the risk of you losing it is very low or not existing. Selling it and moving the money out of Thailand I can't answer upon but I am sure there is multiple resources and stories around. You might seek advice of got legal help on a site like Thaivisa.
  
  Freehold ownership is very strong generally which also creates issues. One of my friends lives in a condominium built by San Siri and there is multiple owners there not paying the common fee. Leading to savings and lack of maintenance. This in turn leads to market value decrease.
  
  Good luck with your plans but as stated it might be more profitable to rent in some locations rather then buying. Your money might make give a better return invested.
  Reply
  Jan 22, 2018 at 10:00 pm
- John says
  May 13, 2018 at 1:38 pm
  Please be very careful my best friend and I were robbed blind and the police and courts did nothing to help .
  But only RE SALE properties with Chanote / tittle deed without one disputed payong for your propert it remains legally the developers - your at his mercy .!!!
  Good luck ! Beauatiful country and people left me sad and grieving that guys had happened and frankly gob smacked how little the Thai authorities did for us .
  Reply
  May 13, 2018 at 1:38 pm
- Pamela says
  May 21, 2018 at 3:55 am
  Hey Chris,
  I am urgently selling my Bangkok condo at Sukhumvit at a big discount. Reason being the transfer is due and I have financing issues. Contact me ASAP at Line ID: wuffruff
  P.S. I am not an agent. Just someone who need to sell her condo urgently.
  Reply
  May 21, 2018 at 3:55 am
Valdo says
January 1, 2018 at 6:17 pm
Hi.I am happy condo owner .But I did not need those money for anything else.Its 20 yrs old building.Have seen it" almost naked" before it was painted.Have so great dramatic seaview from both balcony and terasse it never felt " small".Got it fully furnished( mahagony like furniture dont think he put real mahagony.Have it 5 yrs.Our newest neighbour is 5 star hotel.I dont think with real estate on short term profit but similar condo sold for 50% more than I paid.
Reply
Jan 01, 2018 at 6:17 pm
Phuket says
December 3, 2017 at 1:00 pm
I agree with many valid points here. I will keep this in mind but have another experience I can share. I bought a small before completion popular domestic condominium in Phuket.

The price with basic furniture was around 40k THB/sqm and I put around 100k THB on making it ready to sublet. My point being it was very cheap for the area and there is a resale market toward domestic and expats. Value increase is around 8% per year and my occupancy is giving ROI over 5% excluding setting of a few percent for maintenance fees/renovation.

Would I invest more after my experience? I don't know I have seen some areas having their resale value go the wrong way. The right price I might consider and if the local/expat demand is high enough. But this would never be money I need for the future. The risk is to high for being my retirement plan!
Reply
Dec 03, 2017 at 1:00 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  December 3, 2017 at 6:46 pm
  Thanks for sharing your story. 5% is a decent return. How long will it be before you make the investment back?
  Reply
  Dec 03, 2017 at 6:46 pm
  - Phuket says
    January 15, 2018 at 11:32 pm
    Yeah I had knowledge of the plausible return when purchasing it. ROI is still 10 years at best so it's for the long run. How will the area look in 5 will I still be able to charge the same? I wish I knew but time will tell I am in no rush unless I can get bargains on similar property that is easy to sublet longer periods.
    Reply
    Jan 15, 2018 at 11:32 pm
  - Alboy says
    August 21, 2020 at 7:36 am
    5% is below average and remember that you can only gain a true picture when you sell the property.
    
    For example I buy a property for 5m thb and rent it for 250k per annum (after fees and maintenance to be generous). Looks like R.O.I 5%.
    
    You then can only sell the property for 4.5m and the exchange rate has turned against you. All of a sudden your R.O.I is minimal.
    
    Always operate on a risk v reward basis. Very few people stay more than 10 years in Thailand. You can rent a decent place for 20k a month x 10 years = 2.4m baht. Considering this sum well invested would almost cover your rent it is madness to buy unless you have Thai family
    Reply
    Aug 21, 2020 at 7:36 am
Afromini says
November 28, 2017 at 11:16 am
Hi thanks for this thoughtful post! This and all the comments are really helpful.

Me and my husband are about to buy a condo in BKK since we lived here for 2years so far and we both liked this place to live for next 5-6 years at least. So we decided to buy a condo instead of renting. I have a question here, here are two options that I'm thinking at the moment.

Option A:
- 10 min walking from BTS On nut.
- Built in 4 years ago
- Room is new, no one pre-owned. means we need to buy it from the developer. Fully furnished with all nice new washing machine, induction, aircon, fridge etc
- 2 bedroom, 2bath, 68sq.m
- 6.3MB

Option B:
- 10 min walking from BTS Prompong
- Right near the Emporium
- Built in 30 years ago
- Building itself is old (of course), room is nice, clean and huge.
- Half furnished, but most of them aren't my style so I will buy new funitures like couch, table, fridge etc.
- 2 bed 2 bath, 140sqm
- 6.6 MB

Which one sounds better to buy and live in? (And maybe resale in 5-7 years)
I personally love the big space, since I'm kinda not loving TH's small living room size. But old building really makes me re-think about reselling. Cause by the time we sell it back it willl be almost 40 years old building. But the huge merit is it's right at the Emporium!!!

Please let me know if you guys have any thoughts that we need to consider. Thanks a lot.

Ps - is there any chance new devleoper bought an old condo to redevelopment? If so, what will the co-owners get? Is there any case like this?
Reply
Nov 28, 2017 at 11:16 am
- TheThailandLife says
  November 28, 2017 at 5:59 pm
  That's a tough choice. Hopefully some of the property investors who are still following the comments here will see this and offer their opinion, which will be more informed than mine.My first question would be: how much would you save over 10 years by buying vs. renting? I can't imagine on option A that you'd save much, if anything?The older condo buildings have much bigger rooms, as noted in option B. I'd have a surveyor look at it and check for damp and structural issues. Have you looked for issues like mildew, cracks in walks and on the balcony, etc. This is all standard stuff you should start with. I'd certainly try and knock them down on price on Option B. However, the location is prime. Resale wise I'm not sure. Is it leasehold? I'd imagine, due to the location, it won't lose much value, and if the exchange rate is favourable when you come to sell you may make on it.Option A is much, much smaller and could be rented for around 25-35k, no? No swimming pool in either?I prefer newer buildings, but in this case would look for something a bit bigger for option A. Perhaps go up to 6.5 MB and get some more Sq.m.
  Reply
  Nov 28, 2017 at 5:59 pm
- Paul says
  December 25, 2017 at 11:41 am
  Hi, I am asking myself similar questions when it comes to choosing between new and old condos. I do have the answer yet. However, my Thai colleagues told me that it is, to my surprise, very difficult for developers and government to buy up properties for redevelopment or infrastructure projects. This could be a reason why you see many odd shaped lands on which new condos are built. It is obviously more profitable to have bigger and regular shaped lots for development. With so many old low rise buildings sitting there not redeveloped, I suspect that the incentive for developers to buy up 40 years old high rise condos for development is very little.
  Reply
  Dec 25, 2017 at 11:41 am
Alpha says
November 15, 2017 at 6:14 am
I agree with you on this 100%. People are so fixated on owning a property that they overlook the risks and opportunity costs. Even those who have 'made money' by appreciated value. Have you really made money? Perhaps. What if you had invested your money in another asset, or a property in a fair market?

Compare what your money is doing renting vs owning. Renting is not necessarily throwing money away. In certain cases, renting is the smarter choice.
Reply
Nov 15, 2017 at 6:14 am
JK says
November 6, 2017 at 10:58 am
Person with the normal common sense can do good investment in Bangkok like anywhere else.

I bought my first unit in Bkk 15 years ago and maintenance has been good and value of the property has got up considerably. Lived there those years by myself and no problems at all. Unit is now rented out, still no problems...
Reply
Nov 06, 2017 at 10:58 am
Marcin Kiss says
November 3, 2017 at 12:45 pm
Guys it's thailand not the UK it's a poor country but do you think that the new build property in the uk are problem free? No if you don't want people close by than a flat is not for you you get scum everywhere even in a great block in the uk as some flats are for council families
Reply
Nov 03, 2017 at 12:45 pm
Mike Baker says
October 30, 2017 at 7:46 pm
I bought twice in Turkey and lost money both times on resale. The key thing then, as now, is artificially high prices aimed at foreigners that dont know their market. Yes condos look good value but they are not.

My advice is NEVER buy in a country whos language you do not speak and write fluently. You will always rely on someone else and that person will not have your best interest at heart or take the care you would.

Renting gives you far more choice. Often you can invest your money to pay for all or most of the rent. You can move when you tire of the area or the neighbours. You can upsize or downsize as required. For the most part you need not concern yourself with problems arising from poor workmanship.

But one thing I have learned is that even when renting you can get (temporarily) stuck in an environment you did not know about when viewing - like noisy neighbours; banging doors; a hotel with new guests (problems) every few days; noise from outside you didnt think would get into your space. At least after your rental period you can move easily and cheaply and try again.

Having tried a cheap hotel with a pool and finding out the owners refused to maintain it or the pool and now being in a new building but one that is occupied by inconsiderate door bangers, next time I will look for a detached house.
Reply
Oct 30, 2017 at 7:46 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  October 31, 2017 at 4:03 am
  Ah, the door bangers. My last rental was great until they started doing short-term rents to people on tours of Bangkok. The owner is Thai-Chinese and got in with a tour company to allocate unrented apartments to tour goers. They started banging doors whenever they got in late at night and left early morning. I was also near the lift, which meant constant "ding dong" at all hours. I am a bit of moaner when it comes to noise though :) Perhaps the things I notice wouldn't bother others. I'm a light sleeper.
  Reply
  Oct 31, 2017 at 4:03 am
Mark Hughes says
October 21, 2017 at 9:44 pm
I bought a second hand condo in Thonglor in Bangkok that came more than adequately furnished with a good fridge and TV, two quality huge beds, two shower rooms - one en suite - plenty of cupboard space, a balcony overlooking one of three pools on the top, 9th floor. It is a 78 sq m corner unit (including the underground carpark), a decent gym and sauna and top security. It was seven years old but had never been lived in. The building (actually several built around the pools) is at the end of a small, quiet soi with two 24-hour shops, very close to top restaurants and bars, a 7 baht bus ride or 20 baht scooter ride to the BTS or the klong boat service. It cost 7.2 million baht (about £140,000 back then). The point is I could get nothing like it for that value anywhere worth living in the UK with its bitterly cold winters, certainly not in the capital city with all its amenities. Service costs are less than 27,000 baht a year if you pay on time (far less than many council taxes in the UK). Easy waste disposal is included. The building has stood the tests of time and estate agents reckon it has risen in value more than a million baht. I can put my own shelves up and bang in picture hooks willy-nilly. I also have the security of knowing it is mine and I can't be evicted. I guess it would rent for about 40,000 baht a month, meaning at current rates I could have rented it for about 14 years for the same cost with nothing to show for it and leaving my wife homeless should I expire. I'm extremely glad I bought it and only wish I had a neighbour (the fire exit is next door, which adds to the quiet and security) but if I did have a neighbour I may have been able to buy that person's flat too and knock them together, as others have done, and got four bedrooms, four bathrooms (although I'd have probably turned one into a study and another into a dressing room), extended the kitchen/dining/living room in one into a big kitchen and dining room and had a very large lounge all for about £300,000 maximum. That to me, a former Londoner, seems like a very good deal indeed compared with the three-storey 1874 town house I once owned with a mortgage of £100,000 next to Hampstead Heath in London. The only hassle is the 90-day reporting. Moreover, as I get older, I am considering building for 2-3 million baht a house upcountry near my wife's well-connected family's home in a company name, profiting considerably because I am confident this place will sell. To me it was a no-brainer but, judging by the article, I may have been rather lucky.
Reply
Oct 21, 2017 at 9:44 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  October 23, 2017 at 5:37 pm
  Great to hear such a positive story. I'm sure there are condos in sort after areas such as Thong Lor, Ploen Chit (around Soi Ruamrudee), Ekkamai, which can be good buys if you can afford them. Again, it depends on what you want from the condo. If it is a place you want to live for 20-25 years then you will most likely make back what you've paid in rent and have a property to sell or rent out when you decide to move on. Lower-end condos in not so desirable areas are a different kettle of fish.That house next to the Heath must be worth a fortune now!
  Reply
  Oct 23, 2017 at 5:37 pm
- Rob says
  December 25, 2017 at 4:36 pm
  Dear Mark, I'm fully agree with you! Rob
  Reply
  Dec 25, 2017 at 4:36 pm
john says
October 3, 2017 at 12:25 pm
Never ever buy property in Thailand is the worst investment you can make .
The writer of this article forgot to mention you have to pay maintenance fee every year and sinking fund plus you got wear & tear etc.
The total cost of your unit of 40 square meter per year will be roughly around the Baht50.000 ,- per year to buy a unit of 40 sq meter will cost you +/- 3,4 million instead of buying a condo you buy Thai bonds interest rate 4% per year
will bring in an other Baht136.000,- plus the Baht50.000,- you saved =Baht186.000,- divided by 12 months = Baht15500,- per month for that kind of money you can rent a beautiful 40 sq meter unit !
No transfer tax at the land office no corruption etc..
With those bonds you stay very liquid push on the button and your bonds are sold selling your apartment is a nightmare it can take years plus you have to pay minimal 5% commission plus (7% vat) to the real estate agent and you have to pay lawyer fee and tax at the land office plus some coffee money etc,
selling your bonds will cost you 0,3% transfer fee .
Or you buy shares with minimal 5,5 % dividend payment at the SET of Thailand Tax on dividend is only 10%
It makes no sense to own property as a foreigner in Thailand .
Any doubt check some websites of real estate agents often you see the selling price and rental price of the property when you calculate the rental return % on his investment it is often between the 1,5 % and 3,5 % and still has to pay the maintenance fee and tear & wear out of it .
Go google and check the numbers by your self !
Buying property in Thailand is waisting your money big time
though buying shares or bonds in Thailand is pretty good and very transparent
Most of the companies at the SET got the annual reports in English as well
good luck
Reply
Oct 03, 2017 at 12:25 pm
- Marcin Kiss says
  November 3, 2017 at 12:50 pm
  Darling didn't you know you have to pay ground rent maintainance fees in every country for a flat ?
  Sinking fund only when you moved in
  Wear and tear you get everywhere you live
  Without that knowledge I wander how you go through your life?
  Reply
  Nov 03, 2017 at 12:50 pm
  - Alpha says
    November 15, 2017 at 6:23 am
    Difference being in your country, you don't need a visa to live in the property you own. And while in Thailand there were considerations that perhaps foreigners renting out their properties are technically working and should thus have a work permit, you wish to invest in such a climate and call it comparable to other fair market economies, go ahead and invest in Thai property.
    
    Wear and tear happens in every country. But if you have ever lived long enough in even a quality condo in Bangkok, you know that wear and tear in Thailand is not quite the same as in the UK for example.
    
    Unless you are Thai, you are investing in a market which is stacked against you. Which means all of the considerations that apply in any fair market apply even more in an unfair market like Thailand.
    
    John is smart. I'd think twice about 'wandering' how he has gotten through life.
    Reply
    Nov 15, 2017 at 6:23 am
Andy says
August 7, 2017 at 6:34 pm
Dear Friend ,

Thank for your frank opinions & views but I am going to committed myself on 09/08/2017 for a resale property (10years ) in Bangkok .

I hope the circumstances will change after 2-3 decades of disappointment investors has experienced .

Andy
Reply
Aug 07, 2017 at 6:34 pm
Omri says
August 3, 2017 at 10:18 pm
Hey! I'm looking for an investment opportunity in Phuket. I've seen some good apartments with a cheap price tag. However, after reading this alarming review and some of the comments below, i have to admit that i am a bit scared to tap into the property market in Phuket.
Any suggestions?
Thank you!
Reply
Aug 03, 2017 at 10:18 pm
- Daria says
  August 7, 2017 at 8:50 am
  I have bought a two-bedroom apartment in Naiharn this year. Pretty happy with the management company and occupancy.
  Reply
  Aug 07, 2017 at 8:50 am
  - daria says
    August 21, 2017 at 2:35 pm
    where did you find that? in internet or where?
    Reply
    Aug 21, 2017 at 2:35 pm
    - Daria says
      November 3, 2017 at 6:34 pm
      Sorry for my late reply. We first explored options in the Internet, then went there for a month to move around Phuket and see the options. We eventually bought in Naiharn - a very beautiful peaceful beach. Happy with the investment by far and with the management company.
      Reply
      Nov 03, 2017 at 6:34 pm
Theo says
May 11, 2017 at 2:01 pm
The condo industry in Thailand is all smoke and mirrors.
Reply
May 11, 2017 at 2:01 pm
Rider says
May 9, 2017 at 2:03 pm
don't forget to add poor property management skills to the list of reasons not to buy.

the same mentality that uses cheap labor in construction of the buildings is the mentality that is applied when repairing and maintaining the condo property.

That nice pool that looked so good when you bought the place will be green, slimy and not operational with in a couple of years. Elevators, landscaping, water leaks, electrical wiring. Just look around at existing building and look how they are repaired.

That will be your investment in a few years.
Reply
May 09, 2017 at 2:03 pm
Mark says
April 15, 2017 at 7:42 am
I don't agree with this (profanity removed. First warning issued)

House prices in Australia are 25 five times the price and China is buying up plenty

100 grand condo in Australian bucks is cheap you pay for what u get

Prices will rise in Thailand as world is getting harder to survive for middle income workers in western world

So over time people take up cheaper option so u get a class rise

Pattaya now has Pattaya central very five star western shopping mall with Hilton hotel on top

It's the start of change so you get compition in quality

Thailand is a stunning good investment

In saying that every country have good and bad buys

That's life fools lose there money
Reply
Apr 15, 2017 at 7:42 am
emditht says
March 12, 2017 at 3:32 pm
I recently sold my condo property near Phra Khanong Bts, I lived there for more than 5 years but my initial plan was too keep it indefinitely since I'm a retiree. Why I changed my mind? The interest for the exciting Bkk life eventually faded away as the list of unpleasant aspects were growing year after year... I don't want to annoy you with the full list but I just intend to underline that as time goes by "things" happen and mood changes, so even the best planner in the world could easily find himself in trouble.
To cut it short I was lucky enough to live in a strategic area for 5 years without paying any rental but using my capital that in a bank account would have yielded nearly zero interest unless opting for high risk investments. Now I'm struggling in making a decision if to buy again or rent in a quite area along the Chonburi coast. Reading your well thought analysis was very helpful but i believe you missed an important point. Sovereign debts and big banks all over the world are struggling to stay afloat, bubbles are ready to pop... who knows when a financial storm will surprise us and what the destiny of our money sitting in a bank will be.... Let's remember that bail-in regulations are already enforced in many countries around the world and i don't buy the tale of the Deposit Guarantee Schemes working in such a gloomy scenario. Houses, land, cash, gold and bitcoins are alternative safe heavens.
Perhaps a wise real estate investment in first world countries would meet a safer legal environment but considering I live here in Thailand maintenance costs and taxes would be prohibitive for a so far away second home.
Of course the ideal scenario for a real estate investor would be to wait until the condo bubble pops and you promptly step in with cash in your hands, but who knows if and when it'll happen... 5, 10, 15 years?
So my point is it's fine to save your money avoiding expensive rentals and buying a unit in a condo in Thailand only if the answer to the following points is YES
- you like the area and the view very much
- the location is strategic,
- the money going to be invested in a condo is not a conspicuous part of your assets
- your exchange rate is not at toxic levels (for example I'd avoid at all cost converting EUR or GBP into THB right now)
- the condo is quite new and the quality is acceptable,
- the builder is well known and reliable,
- you definitely live in it and don't have plans to rise a big family
- you won't exceed 5 years of ownership so to avoid the final deterioration of the building and get your money back entirely,
- there are quality locals living in it, so in the future not only farangs will be willing to buy your unit but locals too
Reply
Mar 12, 2017 at 3:32 pm
- Stephen says
  June 19, 2017 at 7:09 pm
  Why would you avoid converting to Thai baht at all cost just now and would you include the Canadian dollar as well as EUR or GBP?
  Reply
  Jun 19, 2017 at 7:09 pm
- PatrickB says
  August 16, 2017 at 9:20 pm
  Thanks for the thoughtful comments and good list of tips/recommendations.
  I purchased an off-plan condo and the transfer is 2-months away. I am trying to decide if I want to complete the sale or sell my contract, if that is even possible.
  Reply
  Aug 16, 2017 at 9:20 pm
- Paul says
  December 25, 2017 at 2:24 pm
  Hi emditht, great tips. Any other experience or lessons learnt from your last purchase and sale that you can share with us? Was it difficult to find a buyer to your condo? Would you mind telling us which building it was, please?
  Reply
  Dec 25, 2017 at 2:24 pm
Daria says
February 16, 2017 at 6:06 pm
Thanks! A great article.. However is that also true for Phuket island? We are now considering a purchase there and heard that people get a decent return o their investments and prices don't go down that much. Agents surely state that due to the lack of land construction will not be endless and prices will go up.. Not sure how real it is
Reply
Feb 16, 2017 at 6:06 pm
Jamie says
January 10, 2017 at 1:06 pm
Hi,

I'm Malaysian and would like to buy a new condo in Bangkok which is located 2-3 mins walk from the BTS station.

Appreciate your advice.

Thank you.
Reply
Jan 10, 2017 at 1:06 pm
- catherine says
  February 1, 2017 at 1:44 pm
  hey Jamie, did you manage to buy a new condo?
  Reply
  Feb 01, 2017 at 1:44 pm
Eric says
December 20, 2016 at 2:47 am
It's not the number of units but the % of area owned by farang that is limited to 49%
Reply
Dec 20, 2016 at 2:47 am
Ken says
September 17, 2016 at 11:52 pm
Ahh. great piece and cheers for that.
After frequently visiting Pattaya over 5 years and living near Pattaya for two, I have come to the realization of 80% of what you have mentioned , however the high end Bangkok hi jinks were a surprise but its "yeah , of course" moment though.
The one point I want to mention is that Pattaya isn't the place it used to be, the low tourist numbers reflect this. I visit the big smoke of Patts many times a year and each time the numbers have declined, and as I sit in my Pattaya Tai hotel tonight I'm wondering how all these local people are coping with the heavy loss of numbers, I do not want to bang on too much about what I feel needs to be fixed but I will say the beach is not exactly postcard quality , and like most of the problems implementing simple plans will do wonders, eg how difficult is it to have work parties to go up and down that beach to keep it picturesque ?

.

Ps I realize that the Russian folk have all but gone, and the world has had a financial battering lately and that the real season is Nov-March ( Which I don't believe. The season use to be all year round busy with the Xmas period being unbearably busy)
Also , its cheap as chips to fly to Utapau via KL now,

However, local government and new police chief are implenting new strategies to sort things out , they need too with Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia opening up.
I personally think that Pattaya has unfortunately run its course. But I wish the city and all the locals all the best.

My 2 cents is,

property bubble pop +tourist bubble pop = ?????
Reply
Sep 17, 2016 at 11:52 pm
- Ken says
  September 19, 2016 at 7:20 pm
  Well, I see we have another Ken on here. I guess I probably should have thought to add an initial after my first name when I signed up to avoid confusion down the road.
  
  Anyway, I can’t argue the fact that Pattaya has changed considerably over the years, as do all cities. It wasn’t the same in 2000 as it was in 1990 when I first went there. And it had changed a bit more by 2010 when I was there last. Still, if I were there today I’m not sure I would think that it has necessarily changed for the worse or that it has “run its course”.
  
  Obviously it’s hard on business owners when tourism is down but the numbers pretty much always recover. If you look at the yearly tourist numbers for Thailand over the past 30 years you will notice that every now and again there is a down year but that those number always quickly recover. And although tourist numbers have supposedly been down in Pattaya in particular this past year I’m pretty sure that those numbers will also recover before long (not that I would necessarily invest there right now). Sure, the types of tourists and their nationalities will change over time but in the long haul the overall numbers should still always increase. And even WAY down the road (after I’m dead and gone) when Thailand’s economy is doing so well that there is no longer an abundant supply of cheap prostitutes, I think that there will still be plenty of tourists in Thailand, and even in Pattaya.
  
  I guess I’m just a bit less pessimistic than most expats when it comes to Pattaya, and Thailand in general. For the past 20-years I have been listening to people saying that “the party is over” in Thailand and that everything is going to hell in a hand basket. With every passing decade people just always think that the previous decade represented the “good old days” and they lament the fact that those days are gone forever. And by the way, those same people have been talking for decades about places like Laos and Vietnam possibly stealing a large percentage of the Thai tourist away but that really hasn’t happened yet.
  
  So things will always change. But as person who embraces change rather than resisting it I always adjust well to new and changing environments. Although, I guess only time will tell what I think of Thailand when I go back.
  
  As for the Beach in Pattaya I’m afraid it’s never really been what I would call post card quality. From what I have heard however I understand that the garbage problem on the beaches is a lot worse than it used to be. Although I would imagine that this is only really a problem in summer time as this is when the currents are most likely to bring all that sea trash ashore. In any case, if I ever get back there I will certainly do my part to help pick up the trash on the beaches.
  Reply
  Sep 19, 2016 at 7:20 pm
Carlos says
September 14, 2016 at 8:54 pm
Great piece, even a couple of years after it was written it's still very valid.However, I wish you devoted an entire section on the money laundering aspect of the condo business. It is so rampant in Asia and yet so few people talk about it.One interesting tidbit: If you goto Hipflat.com, and look at high-end projects like 185 Rajdamri (which currently goes for a whopping 364,680 baht per sqm asking price in the resale market), you can see that it has a total of 268 units, of which 175 are up for sale (65%) and 208 units for up for rent (77%). For a mostly empty condo that has far more sellers than buyers, resale price is still rising! Something is not right here...Don't get me wrong: 185 Rajdamri is a great condo (even by Western standard). But the sad truth is that for the most part, condos in Thailand - particularly the high end ones - is used by shady folks (Thais and non-Thais) to launder money, instead of as a place to live.In a way, you might even say that Thai Condo developers are merely a part of the of the great South East Asia money laundering machine!Things may change at some point, but until then, keep watching Bangkok condo prices go up some more to insane levels. For example, a 600,000+ baht per sqm project coming to a condo near you (like Wireless road) - and don't be surprised if the pre-sale event is done via special invitation only!)
Reply
Sep 14, 2016 at 8:54 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  September 15, 2016 at 11:48 am
  Hey Carlos, I am aware of this. I know an agent for high-end condos in Bangkok and she says that most deals now are being done in cash by Chinese men laundering money out of China since the corruption crack down.
  Reply
  Sep 15, 2016 at 11:48 am
- Salty Bugger says
  October 2, 2016 at 8:42 pm
  Great Article. Does anyone have any input on Chiang Mai? Havnt saw any mention on here at all. Is there a reason to avoid? Seems to be a great place with possibly a bright future for investment. I have been looking into a new condo there called S Condo which is in a good location at : 7 Sirimangkalajarn Rd. Soi. 1 Suthep Muang District, 50200''
  
  They have finished the building now but have a few rooms still available. Not sure why a place like this in this location wouldn't be sold out.
  
  Any thoughts advice wellcome.
  Reply
  Oct 02, 2016 at 8:42 pm
Gerard says
September 10, 2016 at 3:11 pm
Great read. Thanks a million or two.
Reply
Sep 10, 2016 at 3:11 pm
Ian says
September 3, 2016 at 9:44 am
Very impressive blog (just stumbled upon it).

As a real estate investor who owns condos in Bangkok, I can relate to alot of the points made and to the comments posted. However, I think there is a big cultural difference in the way Westerners and Asians approach property investment. Westerners tend to focus only on returns (rental yield & capital gain) while alot of Asians (especially those from developing economies) think of property as a vehicle for wealth storage for the next generation. This is particularly true with Thais who have a "buy and hold forever" mentality.

What is not mentioned here is the lack of alternative investment options to property. Investing in Thai equities is not really attractive (smallish capital market compared to other bigger regional bourses and not to mention pathetic corporate governance) while there is also a dearth of investment products on offer by the financial institutions here. I think this is really the key driver behind the condo boom as there is alot of pent up investment demand from wealthy Thais (especially wealthy upcountry folks who would like to own a piece of Bangkok). Historically, land has been the asset of choice for Thais to own. With the new Land and Buildings tax, many landowners have been trading in land for condos.
Reply
Sep 03, 2016 at 9:44 am
- Ken says
  September 4, 2016 at 1:11 pm
  That’s an interesting theory. And you are probably right. Still, from what I understand vacancy rates in Bangkok are already fairly high compared to cities like Los Angeles and New York (although office vacancy rates are supposedly at a 20-year low). And I wouldn’t think that a building boom could sustain itself for very long in the face of high vacancy rates no matter how badly people want to invest in real estate. I can’t really say for sure though.
  
  What I personally cannot figure out is why condos are so expensive in places like Pattaya - especially when you consider how poorly laid out, decorated, and furnished they are on average when compared to condos in Bangkok. After all, there is such a huge surplus of condos on the market in Pattaya right now that I would think we would be seeing fire sale prices but this does not seem to be the case at all. But then again, as it seems that absolutely nobody in Pattaya actually buys a condo there to live in themselves I guess the owners don’t care how long their properties sit on the market unsold because these units will always still bring in some income in the meantime. And with the growing popularity of services like Airbnb, Pattaya condo owners can reach a much broader pool of potential renters than ever before.
  
  Anyway, as someone who seems to have some knowledge of the Thai real estate market I’m curious what you think it will look like five years from now.
  Reply
  Sep 04, 2016 at 1:11 pm
  - Ian says
    September 5, 2016 at 10:46 am
    Hi Ken,
    
    Thank you for your comments on my post.
    
    If you think the vacancy rates are high in Thailand, it's nothing compared to China (which can be explained once again about the unique Asian cultural mindset that is applied to buying property).
    
    As for your comments on Pattaya, I agree. The condo market there is a total dog and I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. For the most part within say the past 5 to 7 years, Pattaya projects have been geared towards the foreign buyer market - namely the Russian and Chinese - and we all know what happened to the Russian Ruble a few years back that resulted in a mass forfeit of deposits on new condos by Russian buyers.
    
    Regarding your comment on the lack of fire sales, they are extremely hard to find and the oversimplified answer has to do with Thai culture and the Thai banking sector. Generally speaking, Thais would rather lose money than to lose face, so no self respecting Thai will want to exit at a steep loss in fear that others will find out about it. Deals like this can be done, but you have to be extremely sensitive in the way you handle such negotiations where the seller is Thai. As for the Thai banking sector, Thai banks enjoy one of the largest lending spreads world wide (lending rate minus savings rate), so this allows them to shore and buffer their balance sheets in the event of any loans (mortgages) turning sour. As you know, there is a weak enforcement culture / rule of law here in Thailand, so it is very time consuming and costly for the banks to chase borrowers (including both property developers and buyers) to make good on payment, so banks will simply take as much upfront as possible (loan origination charges, etc) together with imposing high interest rates on borrowers.
    
    As for the future of the real estate market five years from now, I am still bullish (there is a reason that this country is called 'Teflon Thailand'). Thais are an extremely patriotic posse who are fully invested in their country (the proportion of overseas investment by Thais is still extremely low when compared to how much they invest locally), so there will always be underlying demand from locals. Thus, if you want to play the condo market in Thailand, I'd stay away from markets like Pattaya where demand is largely driven by foreigners.
    Reply
    Sep 05, 2016 at 10:46 am
    - Ken says
      September 7, 2016 at 9:08 am
      Well, you are certainly right about China’s vacancy rates. But then again, I wouldn’t want to be investing in the real estate market there right now. Would you? After all, pretty much everyone agrees that the market is long overdue for a correction. The only real question is whether the bubble will completely burst, as it did in Japan in the early 90’s, or whether the correction will be more gradual.
      
      As for Bangkok real estate it might indeed be a good investment right now but I have not really researched the matter much as I don’t have a lot of surplus cash lying around at the moment. And as I mentioned in a previous post, when I retire in 5 years or so I will be buying a condo to live in rather than just purely as an investment property. The reason for this is that I will need to remodel whatever I get to suit my high-end modern tastes and I can only do this if I am the owner. I could probably find some rentals in my price range that I like in Bangkok of course but I don’t really want to live there. You see I’ve spent most of my life living on the coast here in California and so I need to be near a beach somewhere when I retire. Sure, I absolutely LOVED living in Tokyo for 5-years but I was also working at the time and I was going out to nightclubs almost every night of the week as well. As a retiree though with no job to go to everyday I just can’t see living even in Tokyo, much less Bangkok.
      
      If I were to invest in the Thai real estate market however I do agree that Bangkok would probably be a better choice than Pattaya. As far as living in Pattaya is concerned however I have to say that I don’t absolutely hate the place the way nearly everyone else seems to. In fact, I actually enjoyed living there. It wasn’t nearly as nice as living in Phuket was of course but I really liked how close it is to Bangkok. And this was important because I was dating a LOT back then and I liked the fact that girls from Bangkok could easily and cheaply come to visit me on weekends. Although, by the time I retire I might just look too old to have any chance with any of the girls that I would actually want to date, so my proximity to Bangkok might not be as important in the future.
      Reply
      Sep 07, 2016 at 9:08 am
    - Brian says
      September 17, 2016 at 3:22 pm
      Hi I'm just starting to consider buying a condo in Udon Thani. Has anyone any thoughts or can give any advice? Would be looking to rent out if possible. My girlfriend is there looking now and seems excited by some condos called Lumpini Place? Personally I would prefer bungalow but costs seem very high in comparison.
      Reply
      Sep 17, 2016 at 3:22 pm
      - Ian Khoo says
        September 17, 2016 at 9:20 pm
        Hi Brian,
        
        Lumpini Place is a mid-end condo brand by the LPN property development group which focuses on the mass segment condo market. The developer is publically listed on the SET and has a good reputation in this market segment. The developer is also known for providing excellent after sales services (juristic management services) which is not that common since most developers prefer to focus on development (property management is an after thought due to relatively skinny margins). My wife has a unit in a Lumpini Place condo in Bangkok which is being rented out to an expat couple.
        
        As for Udon Thani, your resale market will be limited to locals who live there. There is massive condo oversupply in upcountry markets and I personally would never invest in a condo outside of Bangkok (which has the highest liquidity by far but it's still not easy to resale!).
        Reply
        Sep 17, 2016 at 9:20 pm
Ken says
April 17, 2016 at 12:54 pm
You are absolutely right about condos not being as cheap as they seem. I did the math myself a long time ago and I realized that when I calculated the prices in terms of dollars per square foot (or meter) a condo in Phuket is actually about the same as it is here in San Luis Obispo, on the California coast. And when you factor in economic considerations they are actually much more expensive in a way. In other words that price is higher in relation to the Thai economy vs. the US economy. And naturally the condo is also much, much cheaper to build and maintain in Thailand. I realize of course that real estate prices are based solely on what people are willing to pay and have nothing to do with how much they cost to build. And with all these westerners wanting to live over there this has undoubtedly inflated prices, at least in the coastal areas.

In any case, I was just wondering why every article I have ever read on buying condos in Thailand is geared towards people buying one for investment purposes or as a vacation property and not to actually live in year round. Doesn’t anyone buy condos to live in anymore? And if not, why? After all, as best as I can figure, it would cost me twice as much to rent a condo for 25 years than to buy one outright. Of course my main reason for wanting to buy is that it would be virtually impossible for me to find a reasonably priced place to rent in Phuket or Pattaya that has the layout and ultra modern interior design that I simply must have in a place (maybe in Bangkok). And even when buying I would have to completely gut and remodel anything I’m likely to find. I have seen some nice modern designs in some upcoming projects but frankly I would never buy into an unfinished property in Thialnd, as I cannot trust that the finished product will look anything like the computer animations, or that it would even get done at all. Also I can get more square footage for my money by buying something in an older building and then remodeling it myself. I just cant see the downside to buying a place to retire in rather than renting but if you can think of some cons to buying for someone in my situation please let me know as retirement is only a few years away.

By the way, thanks for bringing up Faulty Towers. I had almost forgotten about that show but it used to be one of my favorites way back when. Another old favorite of mine from your side of the pond was “Yes, Minister”. Absolutely hilarious.
Reply
Apr 17, 2016 at 12:54 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  April 17, 2016 at 3:56 pm
  I still love Fawlty Towers; it brings back great childhood memories. "Well may I ask what you expected to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney Opera House perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically across the plain..."I think a lot of people get hooked into buying a condo on their first couple of holidays. That excitement of an exotic land and a potentially (used to be) cheap entry level makes the possibility irresistible to many. After all, the whole "own a piece of paradise" psychology is easy to fall for after a few blissful nights out in Samui or Phuket. But like get married, only fools rush in.Buying to rent works well for those with money they need to launder, and certainly at the top end of the market black money is the driving force. I'm not sure if I mentioned this in a previous comment but a friend of mine works as an agent (Thai woman) and said the majority of buyers on their latest high-end condo block in Bangkok are Chinese men paying cash. As we know, many corrupt Chinese are having to act fast and get their money out of China since the government ramped up its anti-corruption initiative, thus the pouring of money into the BKK condo market. That said, I'm sure this is nothing new. Thailand is fairly well known as a haven for criminals from overseas looking to hide out or stash cash.For me personally, there's nowhere in Thailand where I can say I'd love to live here for the next 25 years. Okay, so you can buy and rent it out, but even at full capacity you'd have to wait 25 years for the ROI. Plus it's a hassle having tenants, especially when outside the country. The condos are way overpriced in Bangkok for the space you get, and they're getting smaller. They resemble rabbit hutches. No garden, either!On this basis, I'm out!
  Reply
  Apr 17, 2016 at 3:56 pm
  - Ken says
    April 18, 2016 at 5:47 am
    Yeah, I still remember the episode you are quoting – what a side splitter. And nobody can pull off that kind of character quite like John Cleese. From what I understand he actually has (or had) a place in Santa Barbara, California, where I spent ten years of my life. Unfortunately I never ran into him there though. Anyway, I’m really going to have to start watching that show again.
    
    As for buying a condo, my situation is that I did not properly plan for my retirement here so now I will have no choice really but to retire in Thailand. And seeing as how I have spent most of my life living near the coast I do not want to change that now, which of course leaves out Bangkok.
    
    My first choice was Phuket but that might prove to be too expensive. My second choice was Pattaya and it has the advantage of being much closer to Bangkok and, lets face it, all the really great women are in Bangkok. When I lived in Pattaya before it was very easy to have Bangkok girls come down and visit me on the weekends. Or I could go up and visit them for our dates. And if things got serious then we could decide to relocate closer to one another. So it’s kind of the best of both worlds in a way. And for some reason I still have a real fondness for Pattaya despite the fact that I quit the bar scene long ago.
    
    You would think that I would want to live in a big city like Bangkok seeing as how the best 5 years of my life were spent in Tokyo, another huge metropolis. But for some reason I just cannot see living there when I have no job to go to everyday and when I’m not going out to clubs every night. Also I just need to be able to take a walk along the beach every evening and watch the sunset.
    
    Anyway, whichever city I choose, I just can’t see spending as much as $75,000 extra over the course of my lifetime to rent versus buying a condo outright. After all, even if I decided to move to another city at some point and had to sell, any loses from the sale would be nothing in comparison to a 75K loss. Unless I am missing something in my calculations that is. And this is why I'm always asking expats about this.
    Reply
    Apr 18, 2016 at 5:47 am
    - TheThailandLife says
      April 18, 2016 at 9:35 pm
      Have you considered Hua Hin? Though, having been there numerous times I can see how it might get boring. The town is small and the beaches aren't great - certainly the water isn't for swimming in for much of the year, anyway.
      
      I still love Koh Samui. Phuket is great for a holiday, but Samui still retains more of that island feel, and still has some lovely spots despite heavy tourism. You also have Koh Phangnan across the way which is lovely too, but probably too quiet to live for someone used to the hustle and bustle of the city.
      
      I guess Pattaya is an obvious choice because of it's proximity to the airport; though I'm not really a fan of the Beach Road area, nor the beach - which isn't much of a beach these days. I haven't been to Jomtien though, which I've heard is nicer.
      Reply
      Apr 18, 2016 at 9:35 pm
      - Ken says
        April 19, 2016 at 6:15 am
        Yeah, everyone I know both Thai and Westerner say that Hua Hin is very nice. And in fact, my friend and his Thai wife are thinking of moving to Thailand about the same time as me and they are considering Hua Hin as a place to live. I don’t think they realize however that a place that is nice to vacation in is not always a great place to live. I learned this lesson myself when living in Hawaii. After a while I just felt too isolated from the rest of the world and there were a variety of other things as well that made me feel like I did not want to continue living there. And just looking at a map I can tell that Hua Hin is too isolated for me.
        
        As for Pattaya, I felt pretty much the same way about it as you do the first time I went there. I also resented being stuck there at the time. You see I just wanted to get to Phuket as soon as possible but my traveling companions wanted to stay in Pattaya and they out voted me. Over the years though the place has really grown on me. Sure it doesn’t have much of a beach to speak of but I still love taking strolls along beach road every evening and watching the sunset. And for swimming and sunbathing in the afternoons Jomtien is not such a terrible beach. Also there are the small islands right off the coast of Pattaya and its always easy to get a boat to take you out there. I even know one guy who somehow negotiated an all day rate for a jet ski and him and his girlfriend used it to get to the islands and back. And of course Koh Samet is only about an hour away by car and it has some really nice beaches.
        
        As I said before though the best thing about Pattaya is its proximity to Bangkok and Bangkok women. Not only is there a much larger selection of attractive women in Bangkok but they are also more educated and have higher average IQ’s than pretty much anywhere else in the Kingdom. In some other parts of the country however average IQ’s can actually be as low as in the 80’s. And I guess if one is just into having a lot of random sex this would not be a problem but for a long term relationship to work out you really need to at least be in the same intellectual ball park as your partner.
        
        I did love living in Phuket quite a bit but condos are just too expensive in Patong and Kata and I have no desire to live in Phuket Town or even Rawai where I lived before. Also I have always been in a relationship whenever I’ve been in Phuket so I know nothing about the dating scene there. In fact I have never even sat down for a drink at a bar in Phuket. And now that I think about it, I also don’t recall coming across any women there who I found to be stunninly attractive. Or at least none that could match up to my girlfriend at the time.
        
        The bottom line is, if I were married or in a long term relationship and I had a few more bucks socked away, Phuket would be a no-brainer (or perhaps Koh Samui, although I’ve never been there). But being single again I need to be closer to Bangkok. Of course I will spend a month or so back in country before I make my final decision on which city I want to live in.
        Reply
        Apr 19, 2016 at 6:15 am
        
        Bob says
        May 13, 2016 at 1:26 pm
        Hua Hin is one solid traffic jam at the weekend.
        
        Go and check out Ao Nang in Krabi. International airport, Tesco, Makro just opened. Lot of restaurants.
        
        Downside is islam, so do not stay near the mosques and avoid the loudspeakers when renting.
        Reply
        May 13, 2016 at 1:26 pm
        
        Ken says
        July 31, 2016 at 1:59 pm
        I was talking to my sister the other day about why it is sometimes better to rent than to buy and I realized that some of the things I was telling her I had actually neglected to consider myself when I wrote my original comments on here.
        
        I had said that it would cost me twice as much to rent versus buying over a 30-year period but this not necessarily true. The thing is I stupidly forgot to consider interest on my savings and so I was just assuming that I would use up all my savings on rent over time. But if I have $100,000 in savings and I can somehow earn 6% on it then I could actually pay all my rent with the interest alone and I would never even have to touch the principal.
        
        Of course savings account interest rates have not been 6% since 1969 when I got my first bank account as a kid. And today you are lucky to get 1% and even CD’s aren’t much better. So to get 6% would require putting your money into a much more speculative type of investment vehicle. Still it could be done. So at the end of 30 years, even though I would not own a condo, I could still have100K in the bank.
        
        Unfortunately however since I am so picky about my surroundings I will still have to by a condo so that I can remodel it to my exact specifications. And hopefully a $100K condo will be worth a lot more than 100K in 30 years. Of course, as over inflated as condo prices seem to be in the coastal areas of Thailand right now this is far from a certainty.
        Reply
        Jul 31, 2016 at 1:59 pm
Karsten says
January 28, 2016 at 2:55 pm
I think the surprising thing for buyers is that even in areas that see massive development (take the new central business district in Rama 9), the rents for surrounding buildings actually go down.A few years back I was talking with my business partner about buying a place in the area because we (rightfully) suspected that it would get a serious boost in business in years to come. The stock exchange of Thailand moved there as did several high end office buildings.The result? Rents in existing buildings have gone done at a rate of about 1-2% / year. In spite of having about as much growth as possible, the rental income actually goes down.This said, the Rachadaphisek area near the CBD Rama 9 is still one of my most favorite places ... to rent. I actually went ahead and put together an entire reference for renters (including why this area is one of the first you want to consider when moving here). Might come in useful once you decided against buying: (karstenaichholz.com/money/renting-in-bangkok)Seeing everything first hand, it's really amazing what's happening. On the one hand new developments get higher and higher rents (which were also sold for higher and higher prices), while old places continue to lose value.
Reply
Jan 28, 2016 at 2:55 pm
- philippe says
  December 10, 2016 at 2:57 am
  As a frequent traveller to Thailand i might explain that old condos age quickly. For instance in View Talay 3 in Pattaya/ Jomtien , after 10 years there has been a major pipe leak. Also new condos are built in nice place then something annoying is built nearby ( another condo , a hotel ) so the value goes down.
  
  Last point is that rich get richer and poor get poorer so depending on the market segment of the condo , cheap VS hiso , the price may be correlated to this?
  Reply
  Dec 10, 2016 at 2:57 am
JOHN says
January 25, 2016 at 4:17 pm
Hey Richard great article. So would you agree then that renting in a condo hotel where there is a low no of hotel rooms would be the best option (instead of buying)? What is the maximum length of lease one could get in your opinion on the beach west coast of Phuket? Also what about taking pets..do you know the regulations?
Reply
Jan 25, 2016 at 4:17 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  January 26, 2016 at 7:08 pm
  It depends what your plans are. If you aren't sure where you will be in 5 year's time then renting is best for sure. Very few condos allow pets, but some do. For renting, the longest lease is usually a year, the shortest usually 6 months. Buying wise i'm not sure. I think 60 years is common but someone with experience will probably correct me on that.
  Reply
  Jan 26, 2016 at 7:08 pm
Gilly says
December 8, 2015 at 5:45 am
Would you say a condo hotel would be easier to rent than a residential condo?
Reply
Dec 08, 2015 at 5:45 am
- TheThailandLife says
  December 8, 2015 at 4:13 pm
  Managed condos (apartments) are far easier to rent than private condos because you can simply walk on site, go into the office and ask reception about availability and view a room. Private condos are listed by private owners on rental sites and therefore you need to fit in with the owner for viewing times, or the rental company they are paying a management fee to. You will also need to wait for the owner's approval and action for repairs and maintenance, whereas in a managed condo they have a maintenance man on site. Many of the higher end condos are privately owned though.
  Reply
  Dec 08, 2015 at 4:13 pm
Pete says
October 27, 2015 at 7:56 pm
Hey this article is very instructive. I wish I had read this before I made my condo purchase earlier.

Just wondering if you are still keeping tabs of the condo resale market in BKK (sukhumvit area, near thong lo, in particular. I've read that the condo prop market hasn't been good since a couple years back - from the political turmoil to the recent explosion at the shrine.

I'm looking to offload my prop. Would be helpful if you have any good contacts/agents that you can link me up with? Alternatively, if I can do so without an agent, it would be even better (after reading the high commission rates these agents charge). Thanks much!
Reply
Oct 27, 2015 at 7:56 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  October 28, 2015 at 10:16 pm
  Hi Pete, I personally don't know anyone in real estate who sells second hand condos, but if you go to this post here, and look in the comments section, you'll see that a guy who buys second hand condos offers up some tips. He might have some good advice for you.
  Reply
  Oct 28, 2015 at 10:16 pm
  - Pete says
    October 29, 2015 at 10:09 am
    Oh thanks.
    
    I should have been clearer. I bought a condo near thong Lo when it was first launched, TOP is ~2-3 years later.
    
    It hasn't TOP yet, so it's more of selling (or rather changing hands) for 1st hand condo.
    
    Then again, I am having difficulty getting any interested buyer despite lowering prices n my previous agent now tell me that she's not interested to help with this deal so that she could focus on more launches.
    Reply
    Oct 29, 2015 at 10:09 am
Brian says
October 7, 2015 at 12:03 pm
Great article, giving me something to think about as I move to BKK. Would you have different advice/options if my partner were a Thai citizen? Perhaps having them buy the land and I build a home from scratch?
Reply
Oct 07, 2015 at 12:03 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  October 7, 2015 at 12:16 pm
  That is an option, because then your partner can lease the land to you for 30 years. But bear in mind that there have been cases of fraud where the partner has reversed the lease through a corrupt lawyer and regained control of the land. The partner is then free to take out loans against this land or sell it. Though the house is yours when the land is leased to you, when the lease is terminated or runs out, the house is just a property sitting on his/her land and can be requested for removal at any time / the tenants can be asked to leave at any time. Of course, possessions belonging to you in that house would remain yours. I'm not fear-mongering here, but it's good to be fully aware of where you stand in the worst case scenario, as well as the best :)
  Reply
  Oct 07, 2015 at 12:16 pm
- Richard says
  November 22, 2015 at 2:36 am
  Thai "Partner". Let's also keep in mind that when a Thai national marries a farang they lose their right of land ownership, if you mean "wife" when you say partner.
  Reply
  Nov 22, 2015 at 2:36 am
  - TheThailandLife says
    November 24, 2015 at 1:23 pm
    Where did you read that Richard? This is simply not true.
    Reply
    Nov 24, 2015 at 1:23 pm
Jake says
September 16, 2015 at 2:12 pm
Thanks for the great article!

I'm currently living and working in Thailand, and I'd like to know your opinion about a sublease business.

What about I rent a condo and then rent it again to others? like through Airbnb or something?

Wouldn't it make better profit than buying a condo?
Reply
Sep 16, 2015 at 2:12 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  September 17, 2015 at 12:38 am
  Hi Jake, I actually met a guy today from Singapore who does this on Air BnB. He said it's pretty profitable. I guess it all depends on how high you can keep occupancy rates.
  Reply
  Sep 17, 2015 at 12:38 am
BangkokBaz says
June 15, 2015 at 7:47 pm
You should also mention how agents receive anywhere upto 7% commissions for selling condos, especially in Pattaya, plus the free iPhones, cash bonus etc.. for the agents.

Also how agents increase the price of the property and take the difference between the sale price and the owner or developers asking price. Sometimes it can be 1 MB or more.
Reply
Jun 15, 2015 at 7:47 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  June 15, 2015 at 11:01 pm
  That's a good point. I was recently reading about this. I guess you have to find a way to cut out the agent.
  Reply
  Jun 15, 2015 at 11:01 pm
TheThailandLife says
June 7, 2015 at 11:53 am

Jay:
Yeah, thanks for the response. I have been researching the wisdom of doing this. Your blog has been the most straight forward source. I can not afford to lose money, although I don’t see it as an investment other than a place to stay. And I would like my money back one day, if I so chose to sell. A middle class Bangkok friend gave me a lead on a building along the new BTS extension (don’t remember the stop, but past On Nut) that her co-workers are buying into. So that whet my appetite a bit since it is a friend giving me the lead. In any case, I think it is too expensive. Thanks again.

Yes, there's certainly a trend of people with spare cash buying along the planned BTS lines; often getting a heads up on some inside info from authority figures. The thing is, those locations are getting further and further out of town and therefore less desirable rents for those working in town. That means the rents will be fairly cheap and it will take longer to make your money back on a buy-to-let. If you want to stay in BKK for the next 20 years then perhaps buying is a good idea, but then ask yourself, would you make your money back if you suddenly had to sell and return home, or would you be able to rent it hassle free, and consistently. As a side note, even on the smaller, cheaper condos, when you work out the price per square foot it often doesn't work out much cheaper (for me anyway) than a decent area back home. It's the old story I guess, if you've got the money to risk and lose perhaps 25% of it, then take the gamble.
Reply
Jun 07, 2015 at 11:53 am
Ian says
May 25, 2015 at 9:10 pm
Great article , although I'm confused with one of the points you make , 4. Is it really a great investment ? You say the demise of GBP would have cost you any profits made , however if you have transfer sterling funds into Thailand when the exchange rate was 70 ( I'm guessing that was the period you are talking about ) with the rate around 50 now , you would have made around an additional 40% profit if you had converted everything back to GBP , I would guess it has been similar stories with EUR and USD
Reply
May 25, 2015 at 9:10 pm
- TheThailandLife says
  May 25, 2015 at 9:31 pm
  Hey Ian, you're absolutely right; it must have been a late one when I wrote that. I've amended that point. Thanks for pointing it out. At least I know someone is reading the posts in their entirety!
  Reply
  May 25, 2015 at 9:31 pm
  - Jay says
    June 5, 2015 at 6:18 am
    Hey, Good stuff. Thanks for slapping me in the face with some reality. Here is my question: Does it make sense to shop for a condo in an old building that appears to have held up / aged well and been maintained or are those few and far between? And wasn't construction better in the old buildings...especially old houses that have been split up into townhouses?
    Reply
    Jun 05, 2015 at 6:18 am
    - TheThailandLife says
      June 5, 2015 at 11:12 am
      I don't know enough about the building in the 70s/80s/90s to answer that, so maybe someone else can comment on the quality of older buildings. That said, I've known a few people who've rented older condos in and around the Chitlom area in Bangkok, and generally in those top end areas where the condos are selling for 20-40MB, the standard of build is far greater. Renting older condos outside of the premium priced areas is so cheap though, so I can't think that it would warrant buying. I think a townhouse is always a better buy, especially if you get a front and rear garden space. But then you'd have to find a development where foreigners are allowed to own 100%. Personally, i thin the rental deals are too attractive to be getting involved with ownership.
      Reply
      Jun 05, 2015 at 11:12 am
      - Jay says
        June 7, 2015 at 5:20 am
        Yeah, thanks for the response. I have been researching the wisdom of doing this. Your blog has been the most straight forward source. I can not afford to lose money, although I don't see it as an investment other than a place to stay. And I would like my money back one day, if I so chose to sell. A middle class Bangkok friend gave me a lead on a building along the new BTS extension (don't remember the stop, but past On Nut) that her co-workers are buying into. So that whet my appetite a bit since it is a friend giving me the lead. In any case, I think it is too expensive. Thanks again.
        Reply
        Jun 07, 2015 at 5:20 am
nate says
November 4, 2014 at 11:22 am
I have.two.condos already on the outskirts of bkk and will buy two more. This hasn t deterred me but it has given me much more to think about before signing on the dotted line...thanks! Smart insightful article..
Reply
Nov 04, 2014 at 11:22 am
- TheThailandLife says
  November 4, 2014 at 4:02 pm
  Thanks Nate. Are you flipping condos or renting them out? Maybe you want to share your investment strategy with us :)
  Reply
  Nov 04, 2014 at 4:02 pm
- Rob says
  February 12, 2019 at 5:40 pm
  What channels do you need to go through to buy condo in Thailand I only have basic knowledge such as 51 % majority Thai living in condos but seriously what channels do I need to take and how much can fees cost.
  Reply
  Feb 12, 2019 at 5:40 pm
Leo says
February 24, 2014 at 5:59 am
Wow this really as given me some food for thought and it's put doubt's in my mind.
I have basically put a deposit down on a condo within walking distance of the bts. The building itself is aprox 8 year's old. I spoke to various farang in the complex and most of them gave a good review.
However reading your article as made me ponder whether i should pull out and lose the deposit rather then lose a few million.
A condo in the same building costs around 12/15k bht per month to rent so it make's more sense to rent.
Reply
Feb 24, 2014 at 5:59 am
- TheThailandLife says
  February 24, 2014 at 12:57 pm
  Hi Leo. I think the key questions are:How long will it take you to make your money back, as opposed to renting month by month? Will you want to live there forever? If not, how easy will the condo be to rent at the price you need to rent it for to get your money back? How desirable will an 8-year old condo be on the rental market? If you see the condo as an investment, what return will you get, rental and profit on a sale if you sell in say 5-10 years?If you aren't fussed if you see the money again, love the area and are happy to live there for the next 20-25 years then that's cool. Similarly, if you have a fair bit of money in the bank, this condo could make a convenient city stay when you decide to move on to live elsewhere.
  Reply
  Feb 24, 2014 at 12:57 pm
  - Nick011 says
    November 2, 2016 at 11:22 am
    Buying in Thailand is "up to you" ! People go to Thailand for different reasons, you know? Yes you know where I am coming from. Personally I think you are far better off renting if you are going to be there less than 10 years. SO much easier and gives you the freedom to move around the country whenever you want to! The reason is simple, - sometimes things happen in those 10 years. You can want a quieter life style or meet a Lady or whatever and your free to go and do it.
    Investment wise (property) your better off in the U.K , USA , OZ, Europe, etc where you know your investment return is there and your income ... so don't blow it in Thailand unless your wealthy enough to accept low returns on you money.
    
    My advice .. Is take the time to learn to speak Thai, ohhhh ... so difficult it is for me (and all farrangs) but my limited Thai has got me so much further with the genuine Thai people its incredible! The rewards of speaking the language comes back 10 fold - and then you don't get ripped of (as much).
    Reply
    Nov 02, 2016 at 11:22 am
    - TheThailandLife says
      November 2, 2016 at 11:37 am
      Indeed. I agree. But a lot of people get carried away and rush in, thinking; "Wow! Property is cheap here, what a great investment", without properly analysing the market and considering those next 10 years -- as you pointed out.
      Reply
      Nov 02, 2016 at 11:37 am

Buying a Condo in Thailand: 9 Questions You MUST Ask Yourself!

1. How Big is the Rabbit Hutch?

2. Would You Pay This Much Back Home?

3. Are You Buying a Condo Built by Mr O' Rilley?

4. Are You Happy Paying an Inflated Market Rate?