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Working Online In Thailand – Getting A Work Permit & Legal Guidelines

It seems like every other foreigner you meet in Thailand these days is doing some sort of work online.

Whether a retiree managing business affairs back home via email, or a full scale internet marketer working out of cafes and co-working spaces, more and more people are taking advantage of being location independent.

In the last few years, online workers have flooded into Thailand; travel writers, bloggers, web developers, Pay-Per-Click advertising managers, affiliate marketers, poker players, the list goes on.

Let's not also forget the hundreds, if not thousands of movie extras working on tourist visa's too.

working online in thailand

The problem is, the laws pertaining to foreigners working in Thailand were written prior to the growth of the internet, which means that anybody falling into one of the aforementioned categories cannot obtain a work permit that covers the type of work they want to carry out in the Kingdom.

The moment you conduct any type of work online in Thailand, you are breaking the law, period.

As black and white as that may be, even those desperately trying to comply with the law currently can't do so. And here's why…

What Happens When You Try To Legally Work Online In Thailand?

Back in 2009, I wrote a post about working in Thailand, and as part of my research I popped off an email to a well-known Bangkok-based legal firm asking whether a permit was required for a person working online in Thailand for a foreign client.

The response was interesting, and corresponded with the “no one is going to say anything” line people were following at the time. Here is that response:

Thank you for contacting [name undisclosed]

Legally speaking you are required to carry out your tasks with a corresponding WP.  Regardless of the fact that you are doing your job through your laptop. This is because you are earning income whilst you are in Thailand.

At the same time the process of procuring a WP is just complicated as opposed to just doing your thing discreetly.  Logically, thus, I would opt for the latter like more or less what you are doing at the moment.

The most important thing in the end is you have a visa that makes your stay in Thailand legal.

Should you have further questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Have a nice day!

This shocked me a little. And so I asked my brother, a lawyer in the UK, what he thought of this stance. His response was:

“I would be very sceptical of a law firm, or lawyer, that actually advises you to break the law. We often point out to clients that what they are doing is against the law and the action they should take to remedy it, but would always stop short of advising them not to do it”.

But as we all know, Thailand was a different place back then. The whole “working online” thing was very new and there were no legal guidelines specifically covering this area.

Having spoken to a fair few people working online in Thailand over the years, I've discovered that I'm not the only person to receive this response.

In fact, law firms have been giving out this advice for a number of years, because they themselves have been waiting for the law to catch up with and regulate this modern way of working.

Fast forward to 2014 and the issue has still not been addressed. And just as the aforementioned legal firm stated, “the process of procuring a WP is just complicated as opposed to just doing your thing discreetly”.

However, some would argue that the law doesn't need an ‘online worker' inclusion, because it already provides a clear definition of what working in Thailand means:

Alien (or foreigner): a natural person who is not of Thai nationality. Work: engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

This definition is very broad, catching in its net all forms of work. Technically, even if you're staying in a hotel for a week on a tourist visa, sending a few work-related emails each day is against the law.

So How Can I Obtain A Permit To Work Online In Thailand?

Here's where it gets problematic.

Foreigners cannot set up as a sole trader or limited company with one employee (you). To obtain a work permit, other than through an employer, you need to set up a Thai company.

The requirements for this are a minimum of 4 thai employees per foreigner, a 51% holding Thai partner who isn't included in the 4 employee quota, 2 million Baht business capital and a business premises.

Not really a solution for a guy who sends a few emails a day from a cafe, is it?

You can't convert a tourist visa to a work permit, either. You must enter Thailand with a non-immigrant business visa and have a prospective employer.

The employer will then file an application for a Work Permit on your behalf with the Alien Occupational Control Division. If you are employed outside of Bangkok, this will be applied for at the local Provincial Office of Employment

Are There Any Plans To Change The Law?

The relevant authorities have been aware of people working online inside Thailand for many years. It is likely that for the most part a blind eye has been given for three key reasons:

  1. The cost involved in developing legal guidelines and an alternative work permit for those working online couldn't be justified against the low volume of online workers.
  2. It would require considerable resources to investigate each person suspected of working online, and in many cases would be difficult to prove.
  3. Where does one draw the line? You can't penalize a person on a 6-month tourist visa who sends 6 emails a day, and then not penalize a person on a 30-day tourist visa who sends 3 emails a day.

The fact is, new legislation needs to be put in place, with a special work permit developed for those working online. The current law then needs to be amended to include an exception for those needing to send urgent work emails while on holiday.

Are You In Danger Of Being Arrested Or Fined?

Unless you've been hiding under a rock for the past six months, you'll know that the NCPO (The National Council For Peace & Order) has instructed immigration to crack down on illegal workers. This has largely been focussed on persistent visa runners, obtaining in-out tourist visas and then working illegally for companies inside Thailand.

It's important to note that this crackdown was prompted by the number of illegal tour operators and guides working in Thailand, not those working independently or for companies outside of Thailand. The NCPO cited Russian, Korean, and Chinese nationals as the main culprits illegally earning money from the Thai tourism industry.

Rumour has it that the NCPO is getting around to looking at work law and considering how they might legalize online work and tax it accordingly, but as you imagine, they have their hands pretty full right now with other pressing matters.

But for now, know that there is no exception. If you are working in Thailand without a work permit, then you will be subject to the following prosecution:

A foreigner who engages in work without having the work permit for it shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of not exceeding 5 years or to a fine from THB 2,000 to 100,000 or both.

I Don't Want To Work Illegally – What Can I Do?

There are two things you should do immediately.

The first is acquaint yourself fully with the law. Understand what the current legal guidelines are and exactly where you stand.

You can read the latest law concerning foreigners working in Thailand here:

**Note: there is not one reference to “web” or “online” in this document.

The second thing you should do is speak with a reputable lawyer and seek legal advice. At least that way, should you be accused of working illegally, you can at the very least prove that you have actively been trying to get a permit to cover the type of work you do. Make sure you keep all correspondence between yourself and the law firm.

In Summary

It doesn't matter whether you are working for a Dot Com based outside of Thailand, or whether your ISP or VPN is based in the US or Europe. It doesn't matter whether you pay tax in another country, or whether you get paid for your work or not, if you are conducting an activity that falls under Thailand's legal definition of ‘work', then you are working illegally.

Hopefully the authorities will soon create a category for online workers that enables them to remain in Thailand and pay a local tax.

With only 2.5 million tax payers in Thailand, this will be of great benefit to the economy, and would be far more profitable than spending Thai taxpayers' money to investigate and deport those working online.

Recently been given legal advice about working online in Thailand? Share your experience below.

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  1. Leonard Levine says

    What is the cost to a company,business or hotel for a work permit given to a new employee? Is the cost the same, regardless of the salary or position? Is the cost of renewing or extending the permit the same as a new permit?
    Reply

  2. Mary Betta says

    I am attending a conference in Chiang Mai by May. If I get I get 30 or 60 days visa. Can I work in a church or School for a short period before coming back since the conference is just 3 days? Is a Cheistian conference.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi Mary, according to changes to the The Emergency Decree on Managing the Work of Foreigners B.E. 2561 (2018) (Chapter 2) you won't need a permit for the conference, but you might need a volunteer visa to work in a school, even for a short period. That said, I would argue that your work might fall under the exemption below. The issue is that it is in a school setting and not a seminar/business setting. I'd contact your local Thai embassy and get clarification.I) Exemptions for work permits.1. A person who enters Thailand to occasionally perform the duties of organizing, setting up, participating, giving opinions, conducting lectures, or demonstrating in a conference including providing training, seminars or business invitation work for artistic, cultural, sport or other purposes as designated by the Council of Ministers, does not need a work permit.  The Council of Ministers must designate the.period of time for work and conditions as deem appropriate. Note: As to this point, the Government has not yet released any regulations designated by the Council of Ministers. The current rules shall apply until the regulations by the Council of Ministers are released. The following activities are currently considered as non-work related activities.  A business traveler who enters Thailand with the purpose of entry corresponding to the seven categories below does not require a work permit. Attending conferences and seminars, and gathering information Visiting/viewing exhibitions or trade shows Visiting businesses or holding meeting discussions Attending special lectures and educational forums (audience participant) Attending technical training and seminar (audience participant) Buying products at a trade show Attending Board or Directors Meeting for their own company 
      Reply

  5. Robert says

    Hey! Im planing to move to Thailand in the beginning of next year. Im about to get a personal trainer (PT) certificate, and would like to find a job as PT in Bangkok. I have a dad who has lived in Bangkok for about 15 years so ill live with him. I dont have a job yet but will hopefully find one when I get there. Im about to apply for a turist visa so I can stay there for 60 days, till I find a job. So my question is, is this the right way for me to do it? Is there an other way that might be better? and what how sould i do to get a work permit and what visa should I go for to be able to stay there for long than 60 day? I hope you can give me some guidence!
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi,Please read the section 'Working in Thailand' at this page: https://www.thethailandlife.com/doing-business-working-thailand If you have further comments please drop them on that page.I don't want to burst your bubble on this but you should bear in mind that generally personal trainer jobs are done by Thai nationals and not foreign nationals. Most of the big chain gyms have many personal trainers hanging about touting for business, but all Thai. It's not something that would pay that well either, unless you worked privately, which is problematic because to do that in Thailand you need to set up your own business – and that's not an easy thing to do. I do know of a personal trainer who previously worked in a foreign owned gym (muscle focused) in Koh Samui. He wasn't paid by the gym but instead was available to train clients privately. He had a few clients but he wasn't making much money because I simply wasn't the demand, and a Thai personal trainer would be much cheaper at one of the big chain gyms, which are the gyms that most people use.I'm not sure that this would be a viable career to pursue in Thailand. I might be wrong, but I'm just giving you the heads up that it won't be easy to make a good living.There is a popular CrossFit gym in Asok, Bangkok, which is basically in the centre of town. I see a lot of foreign nationals working out here. I'm not hundred percent sure but I think this might be foreign owned, or have some kind of foreign investment interest, so perhaps that's a good place to start. You could send them an email and see what they say about the possibility of a job. See the website here: https://www.crossfitbk.com/
      Reply

  7. Julie says

    My daughter went to visit her dad who now lived in ko h samui.She has decided to stay and possibly go traveling.She has done the border run to extend her Visa.She is now starting a TEFE L course.She wants to teach English and earn some money.I am so confused about if she can do this.She Left university early and didn't gain a degree.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi Julie,She can certainly do a TEFL course and then she will be able to teach, once she gets a job and they issue a work permit. However, that degree would also have been useful because it may have helped her ( \once she gained some experience) to earn a higher salary, depending on what subject the degree was in, of course.I'm sure you're quite concerned about her future, but I wouldn't worry too much, particularly if she is young. Koh Samui is a wonderful island and it really does hook you in. That is the same island I went to when I first visited Thailand: I came back to the UK, quit my job and went out there and started travelling around.I fully understand the appeal. But the reality is that you have to work to earn money and life is always different when you are not on holiday.She will most likely be teaching a government school when she gets her TEFL certificate. Th starting wage pays about 30,000 Baht per month, the equivalent of around £600. Of course, this is far higher than the average working wage in Thailand, but won't allow her to save much money. Still, she is young and at least she will have a job there and will be experiencing a different way of life in a different part of the world.At this point I would say the most important thing is to make sure that she understands how to keep herself safe as a young woman on an island and indeed in Southeast Asia in general, particularly in terms of not being drunk alone walking around late at night, and taking extreme care when using a moped to get around. Make sure she has health insurance, and that she always has enough money in the bank to get a flight home should she need to immediately return home.If you need any advice, there are plenty of articles on this website talk about a range of things. You can just leave a comment on a relevant post and I will reply, or someone else will jump in with the information that you need.
      Reply

    • Marie says

      In order to get a teaching job in Thailand - degree is not essential...HOWEVER in order to get a Work Permit then yes, your daughter will need a degree. Meaning any teaching job she takes will in effect mean she is working illegally as Ministry of Education requires all teachers to hold a bachelors degree as minimum.
      Reply

      • TheThailandLife says

        Not true.There are legal loopholes to work around the rule for having a degree (for a school). Some formal schools will classify the teacher as a classroom assistant, for example. In addition, agencies are often non-formal schools, so they can provide non-immigrant B visas and work permits for teachers without degrees; they then subcontract their teachers to formal schools. Simple. Just go through an agency, as most people do. There are many teaching jobs on my job board that don't require a degree.The demand for foreign English teachers in Thailand is high. In big cities like Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Phuket, parents are willing to pay to get their children into classrooms led by foreign English teachers. Lack of a degree means you will have to do a little legwork on your own, but the schools will hire you if you meet their qualifications and are in the right place at the right time, as many schools are in constant need to meet that demand from parents.
        Reply

  8. boithai says

    To know nevertheless that it is possible to create an activity of E-commerce and to be approved by the BOI (Board of Investment). This means that you can own 100% of your company. You can also obtain a business visa and a work permit valid for two years. Work permits from a BOI-approved company do not require 4 Thai employees per work permit. To be eligible by the BOI the activity of E-commerce must be in the form of platform, a little the concept of "amazon" or "agoda" but in more modest, of course.
    Reply

  9. N.Anh says

    I'm planning to go to BKK to open a branch of my company. Our specialty is digital advertising so mainly I will work online. I will not be employed by any Thai employer but my possible clients will be Thai. So does this mean I break the law. All materials, resources and even the ads will be operated in my home country. I only get paid from Thai (possibly). Should I look for a law firm to help me open a representative office or something like that or just working under the radar like all the others?
    Reply

  10. LM says

    Hi. I have a teaching job with a big school in Thailand, but they have taken a long time to organize my paperwork for my non B. I’m due to get that done across the border a week from now. Meanwhile, immigration police appeared at the school a week ago wanting to see my visa! It was really scary. They gave me a few days and told me to hurry up. I’m anxious now, because next Friday seems far away when my mind is worrying about being arrested if they decide I’m taking too long. I’m really trying to be legal. School was painfully slow and also only allowing one foreign teacher to do the visa run at a time... I got last. I’ve asked to see my papers and they won’t show me, but I was assured they have them. Now that immigration knows where I am, I’m tempted to quit immediately in case there’s a problem and they want to penalize me for having already worked two months on a tourist visa. All of this was known by my recruiter, and he keeps telling me there won’t be a problem. I’m starting to lose trust in him, though, because too much feels like smooth-talking. He’s a nice guy... but no information on him or his agency online. Why would a legitimate agency be flying under the radar? Anything that I should be aware of? Also, once I stop working I know I will have to get another tourist visa if I want some vacation time before leaving Thailand. Say I had to do that soon and stop working: would they grant me a tourist visa extension, knowing I spent two months working while waiting for my non-B? I’m worried they’ll tell me to leave immediately, or worse.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      It is strange that they have laid the paperwork for so long. There really isn't much paperwork to get together at all and this can easily be done in a couple of hours, if that. It is quite worrying that the immigration police turned up, and that makes you wonder if the school has a history of doing this sort of thing. When you say a big school in Thailand, do you mean an international school? I can't believe that any reputable international school would allow this to happen.I am not 100% sure of the law in this regard, as in whether or not it is you who would get the blame or the school, or both. Did you tell immigration police that you are waiting for the school to issue you the paperwork so that you can go and get the correct visa?Usually it is the work permit that schools delay getting for new teachers. The reason for this is that they have a three month grace period which allows you to work without a permit. They often maximise this grace period to make sure that you are the type of employee they want to keep on. But this working without the B visa are is simply not on.It may be the case that school pays the police to give them more time on such matters. But this can become problematic if the police keep asking for money and the school refuses to pay. In which case you may find yourself in trouble. Part of me wants to tell you not to worry and that this type of thing happens in Thailand all the time, which it does. But I think that would be irresponsible of me. I think everything will work out, but personally I would not like to be in this position, not least because if things did come to a head, you could be carted off and put in detention for a night and then deported. As I say, I am quite sure this won't happen, but I would tell that smooth-talking agent that unless the paperwork is sorted by the end of the week you are going to leave. I would then seek a position with another school.They should not be leaving you in this position. You are working illegally, and it is their responsibility to rectify this immediately.If you were to quit now and leave the country, you could easily go to Laos and obtain a single entry tourist Visa and come back in. you ever question about your time at the school, you would just tell them that you left the school because they refuse to help you get the proper Visa. You can say that when you were given the job you were told that you would be given the paperwork to get your B visa as soon as possible. In that situation I would just give them the name and number of your agent.
      Reply

    • Nadine says

      LM, What happened in the end? did they sort it out? did you quit and leave? I'd greatly appreciate your feedback as we are in a similar situation and I feel that leaving immediately would be the best option until things are sorted out. Thanks for your help.
      Reply

  11. Michelle says

    FYI: There is no law that prevents online work in Thailand as long you are not working with or for a Thai company. All work should be sourced from abroad and therefore leaves you out of reach from work permit laws in Thailand.I have personally been through this, and it turned out they could nothing to me because I am not working for a Thai company or being paid by a Thai company.My lawyer stopped all legal proceedings before it got to court. Had my case got to court without legal representation, I assume they would not known the laws either because there are none for my situation. I probably would have still been fined as they tend to do. Lucky I sought legal advice from a close Thai friend.Just to be clear - there is currently no law that I come under as a freelancer with no connection to Thai businesses whatsoever. Look it up!A jealous ex-friend decided to turn me in - happy to say that he will remain baffled as to why I am still here.
    Reply

    • Bruno says

      Dear Michelle Was this a recent case? I've found conflicting information on that. Reading the law there doesn't seem to be an exemption for "working for alien company", knowing Thailand a bit, however, I don't think that's "the end of it". Would it be possible to give us the contacts to your lawyer, just in case I'd need it? Thanks a lot Bruno
      Reply

    • Poep says

      Yep is true I once received an order from a Thai company and declined it because I do know you can not work for thai company without working permit. I explained it to him and he understand the problem I surely do not want to break the law but getting a job from elsewhere has nothing to do withthailand whatsoever they should be happy i spend it in their own country. Money from outside comes into Thailand. As much times I applied for my married visa they asked me what I do for work I said freelancer web design all was ok...
      Reply

    • Mike says

      Hi Michelle,Could you please provide more details of your case?Your jealous ex-friend turned you in, and then what happened? Did the authorities come knocking to your door to take you to court? Or was it just your ex-friend who wanted to do it?
      Reply

  12. Micks says

    I have moved to Thailand 12 years ago working on my laptop. To make it legal I started my own Thai company. A legal company took care of this and it took a week. They provided a joint venture with Thai shareholders for a yearly fee. They also did all my accounting, payroll etc. B Visa and work permits were a breeze. At some point I had to hire 4 Thai people to keep it up and running when they changed laws in 2014. It's all pretty easy. Yes, it comes at an expense, but every business does. So if you are able to generate income it is very easy to be compliant with working laws. And yes, I am still doing the same thing on my laptop.
    Reply

    • Simon says

      Keep in mind that your "own Thai company" is not even yours.Plus, you need to pay the salaries of 4 people who are doing nothing, pay the Thai shareholders (who actually own your company because they are majority), pay for the accounting, payroll, visa expenses, office rent, etc., and all of that probably at inflated "farang" prices.Doesn't make much sense to me. Better to start a company in pretty much any other country, and do your business through it.
      Reply

  13. David says

    My own experience with the Thai Consulate (2015) in Vancouver seems to mirror your reference to the legal firm if working remotely from Thailand. The Consulate stated that because I am working for a Canadian company and not a Thai company there is no need to get a WP. Just have the proper visa. Definitely a grey area.
    Reply

    • Strawb says

      By residing in Thailand we all pay TAX every time we purchase or spend money into the economy !! ..The Bankrupt ‘Western’ world collects Taxes in the same way....EXCEPT, the fraudulent Banking Scam which Bank Controlled Governments Support, requires that the Security for Interest on the SCAM loans is paid to the BANKSTERS via Income Tax. NO TAX GOES INTO THE SERVICES OF THAT COUNTRY.
      Reply

  14. Kevin says

    Hi. I will be emigrating to thailand in the next few months. I did post a question a few months ago regarding work anout looking after ducks. My fiancee has ditched the idea about rearing duck and now wants to rear cattle and sell the calves. She is buying the land and we are having a house built on it. The cattle will be on our land. Can i feed them and muck them out and walk them to open pastures to graze. Then collect them in the evening. I dont want to be arrested and deported. Her farther will help look after the cattle as well. I have a multi entry ao visa valid for 1 year which i will have to renew in thailand in november. Any advice what i need to do in thailand to renew the visa without returning to the uk.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      I doubt anyone will care if you are walking a cow to pasture.Most immigration offices will allow you to renew your retirement (OA) visa up to two months before it expires. you are supposed to do it 45 days before it expires. The form needed to apply for or renew an extension of stay based on retirement is form TM7. You will also need the following....5.4 Foreigner who wishes to extend his or her stay shall submit a request for extension of stay at the Office of the Immigration Bureau with documented evidence of money transfer or a deposit account in Thailand or an income certificate showing an amount of not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate plus a deposit account showing a total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht. A one-year extension of stay shall be granted at the discretion of the immigration officer to the foreigner as long as he or she meets the above requirements.
      Reply

  15. Kaye says

    Hi,Same as John, I have been on a tourist visa here in Thailand since February 2017. I've been using the exemption stamps and going on visa or border runs. This time around, I got hired and am in the process of sending the employer the needed files.I'm just a bit worried though, will I encounter issues with the work visa approval? Mainly because my CV states that I was working online throughout the period that I was staying here on a tourist visa. I cannot really delete that part of my career because the employer needs it for the minimum requirement.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Don't sweat it. I bet you a Bitcoin that it won't cause any problems. You were working online, on or for non-Thai websites/businesses (I assume) and getting paid to a bank account outside of Thailand. You are paying tax on that income in another country too (I assume).The thing about working online in this way is that they could make it an issue, but they don't. It's such a grey area. They need to update the law in this area and accommodate in some way for the digital age. One way would be a "working online visa". They could offer a tax break to encourage people to pay their tax here too. But to date they haven't addressed it. They have, however, clamped down on in-out visa runs, so in that regard they are preventing this type of work in a roundabout way - but it doesn't stop those on long-stay visas working online.
      Reply

    • Michelle says

      They won't even batter an eyelid. Been there and done that and no problems came of it at all. As long as you have a degree or the 4 years proof of experience for those that do not have a degree, they will stamp your passport with your new work permit and you will be on your way!Good luck!
      Reply

  16. Sandro says

    I'm a bit surprised you were able to stay on these grounds for 7 months. As far as I know the visa policy states that foreigners are only allowed to stay up to 90 days in a 180 days period with short term visas. This is why I always stay for 2-3 months and then move on to another country before coming back at least 3 months later.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hey Sandro, was your comment for me? On a Non O visa based on marriage I can stay for 90 days. I can then leave and return immediately to activate a further 90 days. I also have the option of extending once by 60 days (at immigration) for 1,900 Baht. This would give me 90 days + 60 days straight without having to leave.
      Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Your son could get an ED (education) visa if he was to start studying at a college or university in Thailand. He would also be able to get a tourist visit (single or multiple entry) to visit you. The single entry gives him 60 days straight, the multiple entry gives him 6 months, but only 60 days at a times, so he would have to leave and re-enter every 60 days, until the visa expires.Because he is under 20 years old, he will need notorized parental permission to get a visa. This means written permission from you that is then notorized by the embassy of your home country.
      Reply

  18. Michael Conlan says

    I have been living here legally for about 29 years. First teaching with a work permit. and now on a spouse visa. I have written a book, and am writing a foll could get ow up. and a screen play. As my wife hes been bed ridden with bone cancer, and won't be able to attend the immigration interview. I was wondering if as a writer I could get a permit.
    Reply

  19. John Smith says

    Hi, I have been freelancing in Thailand for around 7 months now on tourist visas. I do translations online (German to English). Everything was going well until recently when I returned to Thailand armed with a fresh tourist visa after visiting my family in the UK for Christmas - I had trouble getting back into the country. The immigration officer said that it looked as though I was living in Thailand and going on holiday to the UK, rather than the other way round - which I suppose is somewhat true. Eventually they let me in but on the grounds that I leave when my Visa expires in 60 days. I am not allowed to extend it nor I presume get a new visa and come back.As far as I can tell I have three options if I want to continue staying in Thailand:1) Teach English (I have done this before and found it to be very hard work. Can I get a work permit teaching part time?) 2) Marry my girlfriend (Is this as easy a solution as I think it is?) 3) Partner with a company such as IGLU to legally work as a freelancer in Thailand (although translating doesn't seem to quite match what IGLU is looking for and my earnings don't reach $2,500 per month)Have you got any advice for me? I'm 25 years old with a masters degree in mechanical engineering.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi John,When you say 7 months on tourist visas, do you mean in and out on 30-day exemption stamps? The reason I ask is that with a multi-entry tourist visa you could have stayed 6 months, leaving every 60 days and then re-entering. You could have even extended this for 30 days. So technically that would have only been one visa and they wouldn't have questioned you over that.Doing in-outs on 30-day exemptions, it's inevitable that they'll pull you up at some point. Your options...1) Teach English (I have done this before and found it to be very hard work. Can I get a work permit teaching part time?) - Yes, as long as you can find a job and the company is willing to apply for the permit on your behalf. You need a B-visa though to start the process, so you'd have to hop over to Laos or elsewhere for that.2) Marry my girlfriend (Is this as easy a solution as I think it is?) - it is pretty easy - see here: https://www.thethailandlife.com/married-thailand-diy-day You could then go home and apply for a multi-entry Non O based on marriage. Or get a single entry from a neighbouring country. in both cases, if you can meet the financial requirements, you can extend for a year and report every 90 days (no having to leave Thailand). On a multiple entry Non-O, you'll have to leave every 90 days - you can extend this period by 60 days at immigration once during the validity of the visa.3) Partner with a company such as IGLU to legally work as a freelancer in Thailand (although translating doesn’t seem to quite match what IGLU is looking for and my earnings don’t reach $2,500 per month). It's a possibility, but I'd rather go for a fourth option and enroll on a ED visa to learn Thai. Why not? Your GF is Thai and you are living in Thailand :)
      Reply

      • John Smith says

        Hey,Thanks for your reply. During the 7 month period I had two 60 day tourist visas, which I extended for 30 days each and 1 visa exemption of 30 days - but yeah I think you are right that the multi-entry tourist visa would have been better. I just thought that I wouldn't have any issues if I got the 60 day tourist visas.Learning Thai is the option that appeals to me most. The only issue is that I live with my girlfriend in Mae Hong Son and as far as I'm aware there are no official places to learn Thai here. It would mean moving to Chiang Mai I think. Same goes if I were to teach English part time.I'm in a bit of a dilemma as despite being together for a year and a half now, I'm not sure I'm ready to get married although it would be a great solution.Cheers
        Reply

          • John Smith says

            Thanks for the suggestion. As it happens, I do need to get a new passport anyway as it is almost full. Would simply getting a new passport work then? - I would be worried that they have a record on the system, especially since I had trouble getting in last time.I have found another option though. I got in contact with a language school and they said that I could take private lessons via skype (100 hours for 46,000 baht for the year) and they would be able to sort me out with an ED visa. 46,000 is a bit steep, but I think it might work out cheaper than moving to Chiang Mai or travelling to and from Chiang Mai every week.I noticed on the Royal Thai Embassy UK website that I can apply for either a single entry or multiple entry ED visa. Which one would you suggest I get? Would I still need to apply for a re-entry permit before leaving Thailand if I had the multiple entry visa?
            Reply

            • Glen says

              I'm in the exact situation as you. Two 60 day visas and 1 visa exemption which all of them I extended for 30 days haha. I want to go back to Thailand but I'm worried I'll run into trouble with immigration.Please let me know how it goes! I have another passport as I have dual citizenship but I'm wondering if I would get caught at immigration
              Reply

            • Silvie says

              Hi! Would you mind sharing the name of the language school where you can do skype lessons and get at ED visa? Sounds like a great way to be able to stay here and live in Nong Khai - which also doesn't have a language school. Many thanks!
              Reply

            • Mads H says

              Hi John & co. I am currently looking at the ED option, and also on the learning- Thai-online option. From my research on google, it seems very hard to find someone offering online tuition as part of the ED-visa, so please please share links. It will be most appreciated. Thanks Mads
              Reply

    • Marco says

      Hey John,Just do the ED visa. It's less than $1,000 a year, and you can learn the language and make some good friends as well.I've done my research on Iglu, and my suggestion is to stay away from it. They hire you as their employee, but in reality you aren't... Also, with their high prices, you could easily get a Thai Elite visa plus a good private health insurance, which will be much cheaper in the long run.Iglu preys on those who come from high taxation countries, who are naturally afraid of tax laws. I went to the Thai Revenue Department in person, and told them I work online for foreign clients. I asked them if I should pay tax. They told me to go away, that if I had no connection to a Thai company I don't have to pay.But in any case, since you make less than $2,000 a month, you have even less things to worry about, because your country probably doesn't care either. So just go the easy and cheap route, don't try anything fancy.
      Reply

    • Allan says

      Hi, thanks so much for this page, it very helpful.I'm retired after living in Thailand for 30+ years. I don't currently have an e-business but want to know more. I once asked the labor department about 1) writing a book unrelated to Thailand to be distributed elsewhere and 2) scientific collaboration with people outside of Thailand. I was told verbally that that didn't require a WP. But, I also know that they don't know because the law is not clear.Note that they only define work in terms of 'work' in the legal definition quoted above. So, what is work?"Alien (or foreigner): a natural person who is not of Thai nationality. Work: engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits."
      Reply

      • TheThailandLife says

        As discussed in the article this is a grey area and off the record most lawyers and immigration officials will tell you that you don't require a work permit to sit in your condo or a café and write a book. It's an impossible thing to police. If they try to police every aspect of what was considered "work" under the current legislation they would be arresting people left, right and centre. Because of the digital age, the large majority of people who come for a holiday or to stay long-term are doing some kind of work, be that sending some work-related emails or liaising with a property management company back home. The current legal framework has not been updated to address the digital revolution and the amount of expats and digital nomads running websites and businesses from their laptops. To be honest they really aren't that interested. What they are interested in, however, is people who mistakenly believe that Thailand is a tax haven and that you can work from within the kingdom and avoid paying tax in your home country and in Thailand. This is the area that people are most likely to become unstuck in and get in trouble with the law, eventually. No one cares about the person making a modest income on the Internet somehow, or writing a book with a view to getting a publishing deal. But when a person starts making a substantial amount of money from what they are doing and isn't paying their dues, that's when the interest starts to arouse. Money always attracts the flies :)
        Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Technically, yes, but it's problematic to enforce the law because it hasn't been updated to reflect the digital age. You aren't dealing with Thai companies, you aren't being paid by Thai companies, you aren't employing anyone - you are only connecting to the Internet and I assume your company/tax liability is registered in another country. There are a lot of people here working online in this way and not one person has been prosecuted or fined.
      Reply

  21. Kevin says

    I will be retiring to thailand in the next few years. I will be living with my girlfriend in her house we will eventually get married. Currently she raises chickens the slaughters them and cooks them for sale. If i tended to the chickens ie fed them and cleaned out the coups would i be breaking the law as i would be looking after our own chickens on our own land. She wojld sell them on her own without any addistance from me. I do not want to break the law.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Technically you'd still be a part of a business, and doing work for that business. Is the business registered as an official business? Does she pay tax? Regardless, I don't think the authorities are going to care. Many people raise chickens on their land for personal use, so it wouldn't an activity that warranted investigation. I don't anyone will batter an eyelid. The chickens might object to being slaughtered though.
      Reply

      • Kevin says

        Thank you for the information. Its not regisyeted as a businwss and she does not pay tax. We are not talking about thousands of chickens. I have read further posts on this site about "exerting energy" you are technically classed as working regardless of whether you are earning any money. Would that mean that i could not clean both of our motorbikes on her land or clean her windows in our house on her land or do any kind of housework in our own home on her land? Apologies if these sounds like a daft question. I do not want to be arrested and deported as that would be the end of my life.
        Reply

  22. Irene says

    Hello. I am an artist selling my stuff internationally via Internet. Russian women of 57. Would be silly to bury long list of my skills if other can earn living on it. And artists never stop their work. What can I do for Thailands kids and their parents in such life situation? Would love to teach what I do myself.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi Irene, do you mean you would like to teach art? I'm not sure how you'd get into that at state level. Private schools might employ a foreign art teacher with an art degree. One way would be to do a TEFL teaching course, and then apply to teach kids at a state school and perhaps offer to hold after school art classes. Art might feature in the current curriculum but I'm not sure how much. You might look into volunteer work too, if you don't need a salary.
      Reply

      • Irene says

        Actually not. My art work contains many skills I can teach kids and their parents. Not necessarily they will be artists. But they can manufacturer or create commercial items for sale. And I can teach them market, Internet market, buhgaltery. I don't have special education but rich experience. And of course I don't want to be paid. But doing this volunteer work I cannot stop create and sell mine. Do I need work permit for such activity? Thank you.
        Reply

  24. Steven says

    Hi The Thailand Life.com,Thank you very much for writing this informative article. You wrote that unless you have been hiding under a rock for the past 6 months, then you should know that the NCPO has ordered the immigration authorities to Crack Down on illegal workers in Thailand. You are right that I was aware of this crack down. However, I was just wondering what your sources for this information are? Were there many articles written about this in the Thai newspapers, like the "Bangkok Post", or...?? I definitely believe what you have written here, so could you please tell me the sources of your information??Thank you very much for posting this informative article,I highly appreciate that,Take care,Steven
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      It referred to a crackdown at the time by the new regime, which was heavily covered in both Thai and foreign media. They wanted to put an end to in-out visa runs and illegal workers. Of course, "crackdowns" are nothing new and they are always cracking down on something, but this did impact the rules in terms of not being allowed to do back-to-back visa runs to get a 30-day in-out stamp.
      Reply

    • Steven says

      Hi The Thailand Life.com,Thank you for responding back to me so quickly. I am a retired man living here in Thailand legally on a retirement visa. I am certainly not doing any other work "under the table" here in Thailand. However, I realize that there are numerous people who are teaching illegally here in Thailand. By "teaching illegally", I simply mean the many foreigners who are teaching without a proper work permit and work permit visa here in Thailand. These foreigners are usually teaching under a tourist visa, or a retirement visa, etc.... I was simply wondering just what the penalty would be if one of these foreigners got caught doing this type of activity? I have searched the Internet to try to find examples of foreigners who have been arrested for teaching illegally in Thailand, and I can't seem to find any cases of this happening in the past. Could you please give me the names of some articles on the Internet where foreigners have been arrested from doing illegal teaching work?? I am interested in knowing just what penalty was given to them for doing this from the Thai authorities. If you could provide me with any information regarding this topic, then I would highly appreciate it.Thank you for your time,Take care,Steven
      Reply

      • TheThailandLife says

        There are many people teaching privately and under the table so to speak, which is very hard for the authorities to prove and quite frankly probably a waste of resources to go after a person doing a few private sessions a week. if a person is working for a company without a permit then they are walking a fine tightrope. There are of course cases but the media is unlikely to pick up on individuals. Though when a big bust happens it does feature on the news, like this one: http://www.bangkokpost.com/archive/online-business-taught-english-to-students-in-china/459553
        Reply

  25. Zahara says

    I think its very difficult to stay in Thailand sometimes as the guidelines are always changing and every office or article seems to say something different. The law seems to change to suit them moreso than for us to follow a strict set of guidelines. And even if you manage to get a work permit, the amount of documents and papers are enough to scare a company away.
    Reply

  27. Penelope says

    Unfortunately, the problem is much, much more complicated than this.Take the following examples:1) A person lives in Thailand by renting out their apartment back in their home country on AirBNB.Is that online work?2) A person lives in Thailand by earning passive income on a series of evergreen websites or AppStore apps developed long ago and outside of Thailand.Is that online work?3) A person lives in Thailand on the revenue generated from their business/restaurant/bar in another country -- which they no longer manage but remain in the loop via email.Is that online work?4) A person lives in Thailand on the revenue generated by stock trading on his US based E*Trade account.Is that online work?The problem is this: The word "online work" is ridiculous. All 4 of the above examples are clearly examples of revenue generated from *business assets outside of Thailand*. But the occasional management work (which may be less than an hour a month) could constitute "online work" by the definitions of the Thai government.I'm sorry, but if I own $2 million worth of condominiums in Miami (I don't, I'm just saying), and I book them out at 2 week intervals using AirBNB, I am not "generating my income in Thailand".We live in a world of passive income streams where millions of people generate recurring revenue on fixed assets.This is **universally true** of retirees in Thailand who generate their income largely from real estate holdings, annuities and equity markets.The reason this law isn't enforced isn't because the Thai Police have "better things to do".It's because the law is patently ridiculous and unenforceable. As soon as you go down the path of calling "management of foreign assets using the Internet", "online work" then you've basically banned every retiree from Thailand and a major percentage of tourists.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      You are right and wrong. Right in every example you give, but wrong in why the police don't take action.They have categorically stated in the past that they will not arrest people for online work because they do not consider it illegal. The antiquated work permit rules do not take in to account the modern digital world. Until they rewrite the law, or create a digital nomad visa of sorts, things will continue as normal.
      Reply

      • Paul says

        Hi, Just wondering if you have reference to a newspaper article or government website, etc where as you state... "They (the police) have categorically stated in the past that they will not arrest people for online work because they do not consider it illegal." I would love to see this in writing from an "official" source. Thanks, Paul.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          I don't have a link to a source. This is in reference to the case in Chiang Mai a couple of years back -- widely covered on the news, in which the police released a statement -- where a workspace was raided and a bunch of freelancers arrested for working without permits. They were let go within hours because they were found to be doing nothing illegal.While they were working on their laptops, they were not not working for Thai companies and not being paid by anyone in Thailand. The tip off the police got was that they were either working for the workspace or companies in Thailand without permits.They didn't have permits, but as I've mentioned before the outdated law does not cover the internet age and remote working so it is very difficult for the police to pursue a charge. That said, don't think for a minute that immigration wouldn't choose to interpret the law in a way that they saw fit.
          Reply

    • Thai Tastic says

      Passive Income is not working, this is income from efforts of work already completed. I'm in the process of setting up a number of passive income streams before moving to Thailand.The Thai Law says "Alien (or foreigner): a natural person who is not of Thai nationality. Work: engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits."You are neither using knowledge or exerting energy when it's passive.
      Reply

      • TheThailandLife says

        True, but nearly all passive income requires some maintenance work. For example, even a person who rents out a property back home and receives an income from it still has to send emails to the property letting company, or liaise with their accountant on Skype. Or a person who owns a website still has to update things on the site, reply to emails, pay a developer to do work, etc. I take your point, and I'm not saying you can't do it, but do be aware that there is no stipulation for "passive income" under the current law pertaining to foreigners working in or from Thailand.
        Reply

        • Thai Tastic says

          Agree, nearly all, so to help your readers, this is what I did and the advantages are two-fold- I have set-up a Belize corporation, which I am not shown as the Director of as nominee Directors are in place, and those Directors are based within Nevada, USA. and the associated bank account is with Barclays Seychelles.This provides not only a tax free legal environment but also complete off hands management as all my affairs are managed so I dont have to and my annual 'maintenance' review is conducted outside of Thailand by myself holidaying to conduct this.Of course one needs to establish a reliable Financial and regulated advisor, as my example is just that, an example of what i've achieved.This sort of set-up starts at $13,000, but is tax free so pays for itself and also provides for a level of anonymity and asset protection.
          Reply

          • TheThailandLife says

            Okay, but that means you won't be paying any tax in Thailand or in your native country. So what will you be contributing to pay for your use of public services, or for the disadvantaged in society? This is what tax is used for. I could have done something similar. In fact, I could have been non-domicile in my country and set up offshore to avoid tax in Thailand, but instead I choose to pay the full rate of tax in my home country. Why? Because it helps pay for the hospital service, schooling and public services I have used over the years and will continue to do so when i am in the country. It pays the salaries of nurses, soldiers and others who I may need to protect my life. I don't want to pay more tax, and certainly tax could be lower with a more efficient government, but I don't want to avoid paying tax because that is immoral.Anyway...be careful though. In the UK, if you do as you are doing, you will still face taxation when you bring the money you have earned into the country. This is something people overlook. You can stash your money offshore, but the moment you need to bring money into a country like the UK, it becomes eligible for taxation. Ask any accountant and they will tell you this is the case. Earning the money and avoiding tax is the easy part; accessing the money is not so easy, especially if you want to transfer it to a bank account in your home country.
            Reply

            • Marco says

              Thai Tastic won't have any problems accessing the money, because he didn't earn it while he was in his home country. As long as he has the right documents, if his home country asks, he can show proof that he wasn't living there.Now, to the "immorality" of not paying taxes. That's a very subjective thing to say. For me, immorality is to take assets from others through threats of violence, not to protect your freedom.I personally moved to a tax-free jurisdiction, because I value freedom, not just mine but the freedom of all humans. I love living in a country where people keep 100% of what they earn, and the government doesn't steal from them.Do people in the UK have the right to take money from their neighbors through threats of violence, by claiming that they will donate to charity part of it? Since the answer is "no", then the government shouldn't have the right to do that either.We can go on and on about this issue. But, if you want to pay taxes, just do it. Those who don't want to pay have the right not to pay as well. It's their money.
              Reply

              • TheThailandLife says

                I agree, but what happens when there is no money to pay for public services? What happens when the pavements and roads are un-walkable/un-drivable? What happens when schools are so overcrowded but have no funds to build new ones? What happens when the country is invaded and there's no money to protect its border? What happens when public transport becomes so old it ceases to work?You get the picture. I'm not saying I agree with how governments tax/steal money, but neither do I agree with the current monetary system - it's antiquated and inherently flawed. But if you agree with the monetary system in its current form, how else do you propose all of the above are paid for?
                Reply

                • Marco says

                  There are many ways to collect money without the use of force. For example, products can be taxed through VAT.All things pay for themselves when people use them. If a road becomes un-drivable, it's because no one is driving through it. Otherwise, you can somehow collect money for it, through tolls, for example.How does the internet, electricity, or even the movie industry work so well? None of these things will stop working as long as people use them.Obviously, if the government owned the internet, electricity and movie industry, they would collect tax for all of that at inflated rates, claiming that the internet or electricity wouldn't work without their divine intervention. Just like they claim that making all schools and healthcare private wouldn't work.Do they have an interest in keeping things this way? Of course, because they get to keep the monopoly.Healthcare, for instance, is the biggest scam of the century, with inflated prices that become even more inflated due to the existence of the other big scam that are insurance companies. Now, if we gave all of these things back to the people, and stopped the monopolies, you'd see that healthcare is actually not that expensive. You'd see innovation in these fields and fierce competition, just like we've seen with the internet, which due to its nature and the speed at which it was adopted, was impossible to acquire by the government. Can you imagine a government-owned internet? Your internet bill would be $1689/mo, but hey, luckily you'd be paying for social security, which would cover it.Unfortunately, this won't change in the near term, because they've got the tanks and missiles. And so moving to another country was my only choice, with no plans of ever coming back, unless things radically change.What do you think? Interested in hearing your thoughts about these issues.
                  Reply

  28. Jez says

    Hi Peter, great post.I work for a small software company set up through the BOI, and I've had a work permit with them for several years. For various reasons I'm considering leaving the company and taking on freelance jobs through contacts in the UK and Thailand.At our WP/visa renewal recently we managed to get 2 year extensions (previously they would only grant 1 year at a time), and I'm reluctant to throw this away. Do you know what happens to the WP when I quit my company? Do they immediately have to notify the BOI / immigration, and in effect cancel my entitlement to stay and work?If this is the case, I'm considering offering a deal to my employer whereby I stay on their books, bill my clients through them and offer them a cut of the income. In this deal I imagine my clients would become their clients, and my salary becomes completely variable depending on the payments received that month.I found this company Iglu offering something similar (for a rather hefty 30% commission) - do you know anything about them or have any opinion on what I'm considering? To be honest I don't know much about the rules of payroll and taxation, and indeed the legality of this.As you can probably understand I'm quite reluctant to give up the work permit and visa status I have right now - I'm settled here, I'm happy to pay tax on my income, and the thought of starting to do visa runs etc. does not appeal!
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      On the first point: They will most likely notify the BOI and, once your WP is cancelled, you have 7 days I believe before you have to leave the country and either get a new visa or re-enter as a tourist.Your offer sounds feasible, whether they'll go for it I have no idea. That Iglu thing is insane; I've never come across it. Personally it seems like madness to give away 30% of your profit and have your clients billed by another firm -- essentially taking your earnings and taking over (partly) your client base. And for what? The privilege of a work permit? Why not just enroll at a Thai school on an ED visa and go twice a week for an hour, and do your work as a "digital nomad".rumours are that a digital nomad visa isn't far off in the making anyway. The authorities know there are tons of people working remotely and not adhering to the double tax treaties in place between their home countries and Thailand. This won't last long...That's just my opinion though.
      Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      This announcement came after a group of foreign nationals were arrested after a raid on a co-working space in Chiang Mai. This initially sent a shockwave through the digital workers community, until they were let go some hours later with no charge. The reality is that technically it is illegal but the work permit law is so outdated that it doesn't cover this way of location-independent working. This makes it impossible to apply the law to digital nomads. In 2015 there was talk of a special visa for digital nomads, but nothing materialised. I spoke to a Thai lawyer about this recently and his advice was to still be cautious because it is up to the government and police how they see fit to apply this law. So in short, their view of this type of work could change from year-to-year, or even month-to-month.
      Reply

  31. Roy says

    A little confused on this Article. So this is basically for those who are internet marketers or doing other online business as well as traders who wants to do their own work in Thailand for a long-term visa?I mean even i come in as Social Visit pass, i still can do continue to do them in anywhere from comfortable cafe or even in beaches. Even if i claim to travel for holiday despite only have about a month to be in this kingdom, at most likely i pretty much done in enjoying the kingdom land and would ready to go back home to take some break. Since i still can come back again for another month in the future right?So i kinda confused about if it is totally okay to do my own things like doing my homework, college project, online trading, internet marketing as a Social Visiter?
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Strictly speaking the law does not allow anyone to work inside Thailand without a work permit. That said, no one is going to be arrested for sending some work-related emails or checking their stocks online while on holiday. Working online is a grey area and something not specifically outlined in the current law.
      Reply

  32. Derek says

    back in 2006 I was living in Thailand and looked into the 51% company structure. I found a book about the legalities of setting up business in Thailand. In one chapter I read that you really have to have a Thai national, as a partner, that you can TRUST. I think this is actually the biggest hurdle. That was enough to put me off.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Hi Derek, historically foreigners have gained control of Thai companies by using the nominee shareholder loophole - which has actually been illegal since 1999, something the Ministry of Commerce and Tourism Authority of Thailand are trying to get the government to clamp down on. Under this loophole, foreigners own just 49%, with the other 51% owned by a group of token nominees set up by the lawyer creating the company. Personally I would not enter an arrangement like that. But that said, the BOI (Board of Investment) now allow foreigners to set up and own 100% of a company now if falls in one of a handful of specific industry categories. For example, i now a couple of guys who have started tech-related industries under the BOI and own 100%.
      Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      I doubt it is at the moment considering what it going on politically. I think things will just stay as they are until at some point in the future under a stable government with a forward-thinking vision a visa/permit is developed specifically for this case.
      Reply

  34. Terryl says

    I think it's time to move to another more welcoming country. To even think I might get busted for working illegally whilst buying stock, or writing, or whatever on my computer - with money going to another country even, is ridiculous. Thailand has changed; certainly not the land of smiles I once knew.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      I think you're pretty safe Terry. There is still no real clarification around working online, but since those arrests (where the guys were let go) nothing has happened and is unlikely to. There's always a new "crackdown". Right now they are focussed on outlawing booze within 300 metres of educational establishments.
      Reply

    • q says

      Ridiculous or not, Thailand is far from alone in this respect. Most countries around the world have similar laws about working.The UK is notoriously strict about this--much more than Thailand, which is generous to foreigners in comparison--and I haven't read as many accounts about the US, but I have no doubt it's the same.
      Reply

  35. Chris says

    I mention the ED visa because that's how the majority of people circumvent the law, obviously you gotta follow the rules and actually be able to speak Thai to pull it off for a decade or more. The lack of laws regarding digital nomads is there because you really shouldn't be doing it. I don't know about most countries but USA and Australia you can't do it either because the citizens wouldn't want a tide of immigrants coming to live without a contribution.In the USA you would need a million bucks and employ 10+ staff for a few years much less than what Thailand requires. If someone is going to call themselves a digital nomad then be one and spend your life bouncing around countries otherwise have a valid visa to be in the country, ED//marriage/work/retirement etc.Why is there no allowances? Because you shouldn't really be doing it.I believe Immigration has Thai people's best interest at heart, I'm from Australia and I wouldn't want a bunch of fresh immigrants coming to live indefinitely in my country without contributing something (like starting a business and employing four people). It's only fair.it's selfish of people to think that Thailand owes them the ability to live here indefinitely without hassle and without contribution, believe me marrying a Thai lady is a huge contribution! lol But jokes aside that's the real deal, and no matter how many of those Thai Visa people say that digital nomads bring in enormous amounts of money to the economy is total BS. Most of these people earn less than a few thousand a month and those who earn more aren't spending millions of baht a month here monthly either.If the sex industry in Thailand is worth 3% of the economy what percentage of the economy would make up the total contributed by digital nomads? it's such a miniscule amount compared to direct investment. Why should someone with a laptop working in their 5000 baht a month apartment getting by on 30k a month have the same privilege than someone who invests a million dollars, or someone who marries a Thai, or even a teacher for that matter.In the end it's got nothing to do with money or Thai's hating us, it's about your contribution. Do you think that renting an apartment and buying lunch is a contribution? I don't. Try putting yourself in a Thai persons shoes. What requirements would you like to have on immigrants or do you really think if you were Thai that anyone with a laptop should be able to come live here indefinitely?
    Reply

    • Sam says

      Chris, I totally agree with your concerns and every bit you is true and there's no place for digital nomads working freely without a legal permit anywhere except in his own country. That's a valid agreement since you must contribute something to the Thai society (either financially or giving free education/contribute to research publications [and have the capacity to pay 800-900 baht per day on accommodation and another 500 baht on food etc.]) and by no other means you can claim yourself to be contributing to Thailand.Getting a visa doesn't mean you'll live forever or have got the ticket to live as long as you like by tricking the system and contributing virtually nothing back to the Thai society. Well, if you may actually contribute to the Thai society on short term stay to afford splurge hotels and spend lavishly in food and shopping (at least you should be able to pay 800-900 baht per day on hotels and another 500 baht on food), in a way you are helping the Thai economy. Not like those vagabonds who call themselves digital nomads and stay in filthy crap, cheap places paying 200-300 baht per day on accommodation and living on a paltry 100-150 baht for food that's a big joke in the name of contribution to the Thai economy.Tourists have no right to be a burden on the Thai economy, or on any country thereof, and rules are rules if go by laws if you really need to stay for a long term. Clean the country and make rules tougher for digital nomads and vagabonds.
      Reply

      • Brad says

        Do I contribute more to Thailand by staying in an apartment with Thai people for 3500 baht per month, funnelling money into a middle class family and eating at restaurants ran by lower class people, or do I contribute to Thailand by spending 800 a night through a pre-booked China-owned travel agency to stay at a luxury resort owned by gangsters who drive around "super bikes" and peddle in the skin trade?You've put too much of blame on the end-user. Interesting that the previous post compared the skin trade to the economic impact of digital nomads. I'd like that comparison, if it actually contributed to the conversation rather than only revealing quite a lot about the author.Further, if a "digital nomad" is simply someone who has taken their home job on the road with them, their impact is spread internationally and you can't say they've "taken" anyone's job as if there was some kind of slot with "Bob the software engineer" written on it. That job was created, not taken. No Thai person would have stepped into that role. I personally dislike the word "digital nomad", but what you are describing is a caricature, something overstated and unrealistic. You have created an enemy when there was none.
        Reply

    • Dante says

      I'm confused here, isn't Chris a blogger over at LivingThai and selling various ebooks / monetized areas of his site that relate to working online, how to be a digital nomad, etc.? And doesn't theThailandlife do similar things?What I mean is, are these two bloggers are effectively working online, yet telling others not to? Seems strange.Not that I care if they're working, I'm also a blogger. But are you removing having a monetized blog from the argument?
      Reply

  36. TheThailandLife says

    I said, "uncertainty is in the air", as in for the online community.Regardless of the arrests today, or lack of arrests generally, there are still no legal guidelines to covering this kind of work in Thailand - only an antiquated law that doesn't cover the modern location-independent way of working. I therefore suggest it is you who "just doesn't get it".I'm not concerned with ED visas - not sure why you mentioned that - but as you well know there are many reports of ED entries being refused on the basis that the holder can't speak conversational Thai after going to school for 2+ years. It might not happen that often, but does so during crackdown periods.
    Reply

  37. Ben says

    Everything seems pretty up in the air right now. I think anyone who claims to know how the chips will fall is full of it. It's pretty likely that everything will calm down and settle back to normal, but it's definitely not a sure thing. I agree that it would be nice if there was a work permit available for this type of work. Not everyone lives or wants to live in Chiang Mai or another location with a government approved language school. A little bit of certainty would be a nice thing.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Uncertainty is still very much in the air, considering that 18 digital nomads were picked up in a raid on a co-working space today: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764936-immigration-raid-targets-digital-nomads-in-chiang-mai/
      Reply

      • Chris says

        Up in the air? You can still go 9+ years on an ED visa my mate just got his and walked through nongkhai no problem at all, no one has been arrested for working online, and the raid like all other immigration raids in Chiang Mai and elsewhere are based on a complaint. A complaint made by someone who is motivated financially (competitor) or by someone who simply hates someone at the place. All these people sat in a place called co-working which obvious they are working, no computers were looked at and unless you say yes i'm working nothing is happening. Up in the air? You still don't get it.
        Reply

  38. Chris says

    Yup. We own a guesthouse in chiang mai also. We collect the details from customers and write it in a book. Immigration comes and collects that information thats been going on for 9 years at least. If u have a private residence your supposed to do it. Technically u can stay overnight in a place without reporting but the law is open to interpretation.
    Reply

  39. TheThailandLife says

    I hear that, Chris. I've been living here 6 years like you, and have always been aware of this law, but never seen it enforced. The news is that it is to be strictly enforced going forward.But how about reporting a change of address to immigration if you stay away from your residence for longer than 24 hours? I know this is slightly off topic, but perhaps you could get some clarification from the Police you work with.
    Reply

  40. CPANinja says

    Sorry, that should have read 20%, not 30.I hear what you're saying but looking at the law we do all need a permit, but there isn't one that suits what we do.In fact if you read the wording, any work, whether you get money for it or not is illegal. If they really wanted to they could clamp down on everyone. But wouldn't it be better for them to regulate it and make good money?Sure, not everyone wants to go this route, but those who want to stay here long term would like to.There are literally thousands of guys n gals working online here in BKK, i can't imagine they will allow this to keep growing without proper regulation. Plus they'd be silly not to cash in on it.
    Reply

    • Chris says

      Yeah I don't have an opinion on ways the Thai government can get more money out of me, in fact i'd rather spend my time thinking of ways I can pay less.Why do you want a new rule? Because you're afraid of getting caught "working online" because of the 0 cases ever reported of someone getting arrested without a work permit for working online?People are overly paranoid and you're talking about a future that does not yet exist. Cross that bridge when/if it comes but for now there is no reason to keep looking over your shoulder while you pump out work sipping lattes in starbucks.
      Reply

      • Jeff says

        The issue isn't necessarily that people will be caught in my opinion, rather the other angle that visa regulations will get tighter and tighter until it's damn near impossible to get one.Border running is already dead, as are back to back tourist visas - anyone want to bet that ED visas won't be next. A friend of mine was stopped at Suvarnabhumi on his way back in a few weeks ago and made to prove he could write Thai.There's always the Elite visa but at 500,000 thb for the basic version (for a 5 year visa) it's quite high risk for a country known to change rules with little warning (or compensation)
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          We're already seeing evidence of tighter regulations after yesterday's announcement that if a foreigner spends 24 hours or more at any address other than the one stated on the arrival form, he/she must report to immigration and notify them of the address. Also being enforced (starting in Hua Hin) is the requirement of carrying a passport, copy (must be certified by immigration) or Thai driver's licence or receive an on the spot 2,000 Baht fine.
          Reply

          • Chris says

            That's been the law at least for the last 6 years I've been living here nothing new here maybe you just learned about it. And it's not 2000 baht that's the maximum fine that they can charge you with they can actually just detain you if you have no idea that sounds worse than a 2000 baht fine but it's funny no one is explaining this instead just regurgitating things that hear from thai visa. As evidence of their recent clarification email which disputes your claim that you need a certified copy of your passport. I don't need to read thai visa to know this because I work directly with the police.Get a drivers license problem solved. There's plenty of ways to get an ED visa and it doesn't mean just Thai language. I have no doubt either of you have been affected in the slightest and speculation of tightening down on things that may affect us is just that pure speculation.
            Reply

  41. CPANinja says

    Chris, If anything this is progressive thinking.There's over 150 affiliates in our BKK Skype group, and the majority would love to see an option to be able to work legally online in Thailand. Many of us would also rather pay tax here at 30 percent or whatever than the 45% we pay back home.With all this visa crackdown stuff going on I'd personally like a more solid arrangement for my situation.This is a conversation that needs to be had.
    Reply

    • Chris says

      If you have your business setup in a place where you pay 45% then instead of asking questions about Thailand's immigration in your Skype group you should be asking questions on how to setup your business in a place where you're not paying 45%, geez what group is this man I refuse to believe there is 150 smart people on your Skype group that all want to pay 30% of their income to the Thai government or any government for that matter. That's ridiculous.Tell you what give me 10% of your income and i'll set it up LEGALLY so that you're not paying even 15% in taxes. You won't have a work permit in Thailand but like I've already stated, you don't need one.
      Reply

      • dxb says

        i am looking to move to thailand from dubai and will like to set up a branch of my company in thailand .please advice .how can i set it up legally ?also bangkok seems expensive , please advice on cheaper islands besides chiang mai .thankss
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          If you have been living in Dubai, you will find Bangkok pretty cheap. Chiang Mai is not an island, but it is an good alternative to Bangkok in that it is quieter, less polluted and surrounded by great countryside.That said in terms of doing business, I would have thought you'd want to be based in Bangkok to make it easier for meetings and networking.To set up a company in Thailand, you need to employ a quota of Thai workers; I believe it's four Thais for every foreign employee. You also need working capital of 2 million Baht, although I am told there are ways around this. It really is best to seek proper legal advice, as although the rules are clear, a lawyer can advise on potential work arounds for your specific situation.All the best.
          Reply

  42. Chris says

    Dude you are so out of touch."The fact is, new legislation needs to be put in place, with a special work permit developed for those working online. The current law then needs to be amended to include an exception for those needing to send urgent work emails while on holiday."That's a fact is it? We need a work permit for people to work online. And so how do you propose that is taxed? a yearly fee for everyone? 555 Do you know what money laundering is?There's only 2.5million taxpayers in Thailand......yeah they own 80% of the wealth!I suppose you wanna tax all these people barely getting by on less than 15k a month too.Oh and no one is spending tax payers money investigating people working online, no one, nowhere, where's your evidence of that? it's never happened and i'm certain never will, I think your paranoid, you think immigration is going to come knocking on your door to check your computer to see if you made an email to a client, please it'll never happen, ever!!!! The current legislation is written broadly so it can be up to the court to decide and for good reason I won't tell you why cause you probably won't understand.Everyone should contact a lawyer about it for what? God I hope no one reads this and follows your advice and wastes their time.My advice; Have a valid visa to be in Thailand, tourist, married whatever. Enjoy your time and what you do online is your business.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Out of touch? This is a currently being discussed by the authorities. So I'd say it's pretty current. Not to mention that there has been an exponential rise in the number of affiliate marketers, developers, bloggers, start-ups, etc, basing themselves in Thailand in the last 18 months.Money laundering? Those who want to launder money aren't sitting around waiting to be able to get some sort of sole trader work permit in Thailand. What's your point here?If there were a new work permit specifically developed for the thousands of people working online, of course taxation would be a consideration. I am not proposing any specific guidelines, merely highlighting the fact that the current law is too restrictive and antiquated. I don't see why paying tax would be an issue.If you read the post in full, you'll see the lawyer's response from a 4 years ago on this topic. Considering people are being nabbed left, right and centre at the moment for working illegally and being on the wrong visa, I'd say it's a pretty good idea to seek free legal advice. That way, if a problem arises, you have proof that you have actively tried to be legal.Lastly, no, I don't want to tax anyone earning a low salary in Thailand. If anything tax the super rich more. I was merely pointing out that the government/NCPO are missing a good opportunity here.
      Reply

      • Chris says

        I did read the entire article, actually I read all your articles but this is wrong info dude. The whole article was talking about people working online, and you claim people are being nabbed left right and center? That's not true at all and it'll never happen. Just like any other country in the world Immigration here only work at the border or on complaints. They can go catch someone playing a guitar in a bar, working in a hotel or anywhere they have jurisdiction to go to collect evidence. But they do not have any rights or even the inclination to come to your house and check your computer to see if you've been playing poker online or setting up a site for a client (actually the military could but chances of that <0.0000001%). It'll never happen, if it does then you can come back here tell me I don't know what i'm talking about.Let's put this into perspective shall we.my main site subject (Thailand) similar to this one gets 190,000 visitors a month. Half of which are Thai people. I have my photo on it. I can't go anywhere in this city without people recognizing me. People have sent letters to the police & immigration telling them I work illegally and other horrible things I don't care to mention. I've been on an ED visa for 6 years. If they wanted to catch me working illegally all they would have to do is go to the main police station where I volunteer doing translations exerting effort and clearly breaking the law as it's written.Money laundering is tax evasion. If I had a permit that allowed me to be a sole trader in Thailand without any investment this would allow me to avoid paying any taxes at all. Honestly dude I've never heard of anything like what you proposed anywhere in the world, it just doesn't make sense and yes you proposed it with a special work permit for those working online.Listen to the lawyers advice you got years ago, keep things to yourself a valid visa for living here and you'll never have a problem.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          If you've been following recent events, you'll know that there's a clamp down on anyone working illegally. I didn't say this included those working online, but the net could and probably will be widened one day. I'm simply highlighting that since the NCPO is reorganizing much of the country, including visa issues, it would be a good chance to address this.Moreover, you might be happy with your situation, but there are plenty of others who aren't, and would like to see suitable regulation for their type of work.I'm shocked that you haven't heard of anything proposed like this before. I know a lot of guys here who have moved their businesses offshore to countries where they pay minimal tax, so why wouldn't Thailand cash in on this by offering a legal option to digital nomads?I'm not saying I have all the answers, or even proposing the guidelines. This post is simply a guide to help others understand the law and where they stand.
          Reply

          • Joe Alias says

            If I have to start paying taxes - in addition to the property and village taxes I already pay and whatever else - and/or get a work permit - which is cost prohibitive - and pay/or pay my lawyer - and or pay some under the table money with a bottle of Johnny Walker Black - for doing a little online work - and/or free volunteer work to help poor hill tribe peoples - which doesn't even involve Thailand, and moneys deposited in a foreign country and account, well, hell… it's time to find another country to live in.
            Reply

        • Lloyd says

          I'll say it Chris, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!
          Just like any other country in the world Immigration here only work at the border or on complaints. They can go catch someone playing a guitar in a bar, working in a hotel or anywhere they have jurisdiction to go to collect evidence. But they do not have any rights or even the inclination to come to your house and check your computer to see if you’ve been playing poker online or setting up a site for a client (actually the military could but chances of that <0.0000001%). It'll never happen, if it does then you can come back here tell me I don't know what i'm talking about.
          In nearly every 'civilised' country the Departments that manage the Customs, Excise and Immigration Laws have a degree of power above and beyond civil law enforcement, and Thailand is no different. The Immigration Bureau does not simply operate at the border, far from it, they work with the Customs Department and the Department of Special Investigation wherein they are also granted special powers of investigation that include the ability to monitor online activities of individuals and business suspected of illegal activities.
          Reply

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