Dual pricing (Thai price and farang price) has long been a subject of contention among the expat community.
While most holiday makers probably don't realise a dual economy exists, even though they may pay up to a third more than a Thai would on many items in tourist area, the large majority of expats grumble at paying more for goods and services than locals.
And this is totally understandable. I mean, once you’ve lived in a country for five or so years, you’d expect to be treated like a local, right?
Multiple (dual) pricing evolved from the barter economy. (Image Credit: Samuel John Roberts @ Flikr)
It isn’t just street stalls and local shops that operate a dual economy, either. Many museums and national heritage sites stipulate dual pricing on entry, which is never usually more than a hundred Baht’s difference, but enough of a difference to make one feel discriminated against.
However, the reality is that outside of the tourist hotspots, purchases from local markets are generally priced the same, unless you know the owner personally. But when it comes to museums, heritage sites and other attractions, foreigners are usually expected to pay more.
But before we spout off about Thais being racist and how unfair it is, it is important to understand why a dual economy exists, and how it is potentially beneficial to some Thais — even though we might lose out at times.
A Sprinkle of Historical Context
The first mistake Western critics tend to make is to compare the evolution of Thailand's economy side-by-side with that of the UK or US, for example.
Thailand's capitalist economy as it exists today is very immature, and is often referred to as a pseudo-capitalist economy that presents itself as such but operates quite differently in many pockets of the country.
In fact, many of the older generation still alive today will have grown up in a rural barter-type economy. Indeed, my wife's grandmother did.
She still talks of swapping goods in her childhood and people lending their skills to each other in exchange for food and household essentials.
Only one hundred odd years ago the majority of the male population in Siam (Thailand) was in the service of court officials, while their wives and daughters may have traded on a small scale in local markets. And only at the end of World War 2 did Thailand's economy truly begin to become globalised.
Also consider that Thailand has not experienced the immigration and subsequent “multi-culturalism” that Europe and the US has. In comparison, Thailand has very few foreigners, and trade laws and the buying of land and housing is still very restrictive for foreign nationals.
Thais still very much do things the “Thai way”, and in the way they see fit.
And yes, for many this means ‘preference pricing', which, by the way, is not restricted to foreigners. I for one get my fruit cheaper than other local Thais because I am friends with the seller. This is a friendship built over around five years. That's how things still work here. Communities are very much localised, even in a big city like Bangkok.
Money Vs. Feelings
The fact that the difference between the “Thai price” and the “farang price” is usually quite small — certainly for entry to heritage sites and museums — suggests the grumbling is more about feelings that money.
This is understandable. It is a feeling of being discriminated against, a feeling that no matter how long we’ve been in the country we will always be treated as, and identified as, foreigners (“farang”).
On the face of it, this differential treatment is prejudice, and I’ve even heard some liken it to 50s America and the preferential treatment of whites over blacks. But the reality is it’s nothing like that at all.
The dual economy is born out of simple economics. Nothing more. If you believe that the elimination of dual pricing would promote integration, and give expats more “status” as citizens of the country, you’re living in a alt-left dreamworld.
This might sound harsh, but if you think you’ll ever be anything more than a “farang” to most Thai people then you should go home now to avoid further disappointment.
In the same way immigrants are just immigrants to most in your home country, to the average earning Thai, you are just another farang with a fat wallet that allows him/her to live a privileged lifestyle in a poor country.
Thailand is a great place to live, but you and I know we’re never going to be considered citizens of the country in any way, even if we went through the hideously long process of obtaining residency.
Thailand is historically very insular. This has promoted a unity of deep national pride, patriotism and self-identification with flag and country. Anyone outside of that will always be “a farang”.
I point to the words of the Thai national anthem: The land of Thailand belongs to all the Thais, Their sovereignty has always long endured.
No matter how well I understand Thai, no matter how long I’ve had a Thai partner, no matter that my child is half-Thai and no matter how many Thai friends I have, I am, and always will be, a farang. And this is a classification I accept as part of being a foreigner living in a foreign country.
I can’t roll up to Doi Suthep temple in Chiang Mai and say, “Can I pay the Thai price to get in because my wife is Thai?” Or, “Can I pay the Thai price because I’ve poured countless pounds into the Thai economy over the last seven years”. No, because I am not Thai.
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An Ethical But Contentious Reason for the “Thai Price”
The reality is that dual pricing has evolved with Thailand; its existence is a natural one that evolved from the market/bartering culture — as it has done in numerous Asian and Middle-Eastern countries. Friends, family and regulars tend to pay less. It's quite simple.
The same is true in some countries of Europe. Ever been to Italy? Go to the market with a local and I guarantee you will get that handbag much, much cheaper! See Greece for reference too.
Where entry to attractions and heritage sites is concerned, it has to be considered that the pricing is based on economics and not prejudice. The average wage is less than 10,000 Baht a month, and most Thais are earning little more than 300-400 Baht a day.
So, let's say I want to take my wife and daughter to a museum on the weekend, and an average earning Thai guy wants to take his family too. If I earn 150,000 Baht a month, and he earns 15,000 Baht, and the entry fee is 300 Baht for adults, he needs to spend more than a day's wages for an outing that every father can easily afford for his family.
In short, I don't mind if his and his wife's entry is subsidised by the government and that they only pay 100 Baht each to get in.
Who would have a problem with that?
Who would have a problem with paying a little more than someone else because they earn 10x more, if it meant their family could enjoy the same social outing?
If I am asked to pay more than the average Thai for entry to certain places because I earn more then I don't mind — if that little bit more is kept at a reasonable ratio.
I am privileged to be able to afford to live here and consistently enjoy myself in nice hotels and swim in the waters of beautiful beaches, and to visit amazing temples and see wonderful landscapes.
The majority of Thais will never be able to take such a holiday in a foreign land. In fact, the majority of Thais have never visited the beautiful islands and wonderful corners of their own country.
So I don’t mind that I pay 100 Baht more for entry to a museum, or 50 Baht more for a t-shirt at the market by the beach.
As a resident (I don’t have official residency) I am privileged to live in a nice apartment, and to be able to afford to eat in lovely restaurants and enjoy all the city has to offer. Again, way above and beyond the means of the average Thai person.
When I say the average Thai, I am referring to the 17 million Thais who earn under ten thousand Baht per month, most of whom, according to a recent bank survey, are in debt to the tune of an average of 150,000 Baht; debt that continues to grow at between 6-20% depending on the mood of the debtor’s loan shark.
Even the lowest paid expat jobs in Thailand massively outweigh the average Thai wage; so should we continue to grumble and begrudge those with very low salaries access to museums and local attractions at a discounted rate?
When we complain how unfair it is that a dual economy exists, we should think for a moment: do we want museums and places of cultural interest to solely be accessible to foreigners and middle/upper class Thais by there being one price for all?
Are we happy to stop the kids of an average earning Thai family going to the places we like to visit just because we feel discriminated against?
Or do we want it the other way around, where everyone pays the “Thai price”. That way, we, along with the Thai middle and upper classes, get to clasp even tighter onto our purse strings, a solution which would no doubt contribute to lowering the wages of those working for state-run museums, national parks and other places of interest.
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But What About Foreigners Who Earn Low Wages & Rich Thais Who Get Thai Price?
The big problem with the above is that there are lots of well-off Thai people who get the Thai price when they can clearly afford to pay more than the average foreigner.
But then we can’t dismiss 17 million other people on that basis, can we?
So there has to be a better way.
In a country with such huge inequality, there are sectors of society who do need a discounted rate on goods and service.
Most families can't even afford a trip to the cinema, or a take-away pizza. There is no social welfare system to speak of — no food stamps, no child benefit. Though there is a good 30-Baht health scheme.
It is also problematic for those foreign nationals who earn very little too. I was shocked to see that some of the agencies on my job board were offering such low wages to Filipino teachers. They too, like most Thais, would struggle to live on such wages in Thailand.
So that begs the question: Could this whole dual pricing thing be solved with a simple card scheme?
For example: If you earn under x, you get a card that entitles you to y at a discounted rate. y being entry to national parks, museums and other places of entertainment run by private companies that could sign up to the scheme too.
Thoughts Going Forward…
I have never bought into the notion that dual pricing is a prejudicial war on foreigners. It is something that has been evolved and become outdated. In rural communities and market trading circles it has historical roots in the barter economy — as it does in many other countries.
Things have levelled out somewhat over the past few years, though, and vendors often make a point of telling customers (Thais included) that it's “same price” for all.
But where market shopping in tourist areas is concerned, a deal can usually be struck outside of the given price on most things. And would we want that aspect of tiered pricing to disappear? Many tourists enjoy this aspect of holidaying in Thailand.
In the immediate term, if you live in Thailand and want to avoid paying more than the locals, you should definitely learn to speak Thai so that you can engage with sellers in their native language.
By making a little effort to learn the language, you’ll be able to bridge the gap and integrate more with the local community. You’ll be able to strike up a conversation and ask for “Laka con Thai” (Thai price).
Think how you feel about foreigners who don't bother to learn the language in your home country. If you live in Thailand but speak no Thai, how can you expect to be perceived as anything else other than “just another foreigner” enjoying the fruits of the country but with no interest in learning the language?
Back to the main point of disgruntlement though: Prices have been creeping up for foreigners over the past few years, with entry to some historical sites at least 2-3 times the Thai price. This has to stop; simply because it creates ill-feeling, and because not all foreigners earn 2-3 times that of the average earning Thai.
I suggest that the authorities get rid of dual pricing and look at creating a scheme where access to museums, national heritage sites, local attractions and some other goods and services are provided cheaper to those below a certain income threshold.
This will enable poorer families, both Thai and foreign, to have more freedom; to take the kids out to events and activities on the weekend.
It would also enable poorer families to save more money. And who knows, one day they may be able to start a pension, send the kids to university, or at the very least enjoy a holiday to the beach in their own country, or a trip to the cinema once in a while.
Updated: September 2017.
Last Updated on
ThaiLife says
Feb 26, 2021 at 9:43 pm
TheThailandLife says
Feb 26, 2021 at 9:51 pm
Gord says
Dec 28, 2020 at 3:56 pm
TheThailandLife says
Dec 28, 2020 at 5:00 pm
Philip Fletcher says
Nov 29, 2020 at 10:01 pm
James E says
Sep 04, 2020 at 10:09 pm
Gabi Selmeczi says
So last year my husband and I decided to buy a condo near Banzaan market and Jungceylon in Patong. The location was important for us as we do not want to drive on the "wrong" side of the road. The short walking distance to the fruit and vegetable market and the huge super market was also a major factor in deciding on the location. This made self catering a lot easier without a vehicle.
But to make a long story short. During all these years I/we didn't realise the dual pricing. Only in these past 2 years did we start to notice that there is a difference in pricing. For most part - as we realised in retrospect, in all sectors of everyday life. From transportation to food, to attractions and entrance fees etc,ec.. And also there is a big difference in pricing when you buy a condo. When buying an apartment there is leasehold and freehold. But let me not get into that. And then there is the "Thai leasehold and freehold", and the "foreigner leasehold and freehold", which is anywhere between 30-50% more than what the Thai people pay for the same entity or unit. And there is no way around it unless you have a Thai wife or husband. As a foreigner you MUST pay the much higher price if you want to indulge in the freedom of having your own apartment for your long stays in Thailand.
Dual pricing is unfair and definitely discriminating. It's unfair and discriminating for expats for they pay their taxes to Thailand. As it is also unfair for tourists. Staying in Thailand/Patong for 2-3 months is as equally costly these days as if you stay at home in your own country. Even with partial self catering every day life there is very expensive with the present pricing scheme.
The Thai government will have to think twice and definitely has to make the right decision if they do not want to lose tourists to neighbouring Asian countries. More than 35% of their GDP is from tourism. If that number declines or lost, many Thai families will go out of business, lose jobs, etc. and go hungry. The situation is already a catastrophe because of the COVID virus. I hope the government does not want to make matters any worse for their own people.
I look forward with interest as to how things will develop in the coming future. I have a feeling - and know - I'm not the only one.
Take care. Hope everyone keeps safe and healthy in the weeks/months to come.
Jul 12, 2020 at 5:20 pm
Snonty says
I spotted only 3 Westerners the whole time I was there in the park at the weekend. Is this due to the ridiculous 400 baht entrance fee?? probably.
This is the same for many attractions, I recall paying 400 baht to look in a crappy cave somewhere near Kanchanaburi a couple of years ago.
My Thai partner also heard from many of the local business owners at Khao Yai that they are embarrassed by this massive price difference and wish they would make it the same price or at least only double it for foreigners.
Imagine if all Thai people had to pay more for all tourist attractions in other countries, do you think they would except that? I think they might feel quite insulted as do we foreigners that live here.
Dec 04, 2019 at 7:58 am
TheThailandLife says
Dec 04, 2019 at 5:51 pm
James E says
Dec 04, 2019 at 10:39 pm
cvs04 says
It has gone further than a "Special Farang Price" it is so ingrained that a foreigner should pay more now that they are not happy to do business unless they can rip you off.
Nov 05, 2019 at 4:12 pm
TheThailandLife says
Nov 05, 2019 at 5:34 pm
James E says
Nov 05, 2019 at 11:12 pm
James E says
Sep 06, 2019 at 2:49 am
TheThailandLife says
Sep 06, 2019 at 4:40 am
James E says
Sep 06, 2019 at 5:12 am
Rene says
Jul 08, 2018 at 2:24 pm
Dylan says
Jul 07, 2018 at 3:57 pm
James E says
But... If you find a vendor you like: somebody that's friendly, isn't trying to dump junk on you, and isn't trying to take you for everything you've got, then buy something and keep buying there. The market economy is all about relationships and if you look at it as more than just a price thing then they will too. You'll find extra things showing up in your bag. Maybe rounding down the price for you. Maybe better quality or special fruits and veggies saved just for you.
If you want the vendors to distinguish themselves, remember, it's a two way street and they're waiting for you to distinguish yourself too.
Jul 08, 2018 at 5:19 am
David says
The correct term is 'pricing discrimination'.
It's rampant and it's wrong.
Even TAT admitted to me that this wretched practice is illegal.
Will they lift a finger to eliminate it?
No way, mainly because it gives Thais the 'upper hand'.
May 03, 2018 at 7:13 pm
James E says
In most places - be it farang price or gringo price or haole price or gaijin price or tourist price or sale price - the cards are stacked against people who either don't know how to work the system or don't try to learn. I got taken in a taxi scheme in France one time, and then learned the system.
It happens in Thailand, it happens in the US, it happens everywhere. It leaves people who get "taken" feeling miserable, and turns people who have learned how to work the system - like myself - into smug, preachy, A$$es! :)
May 03, 2018 at 10:49 pm
David says
It is discrimination and it is wrong.
Murder is practised all over the world too. So that's OK?
Weak-kneed apologists will accept discrimination; I'm one of many who don't.
May 03, 2018 at 11:03 pm
James E says
The argument comes down to are you somebody who expects others to guarantee your right to a fair price or are you willing to accept responsibility for getting what you feel is a fair price?
I'm of the latter group and (luckily) have never felt like I got screwed over by a vendor and have never paid more than I felt was fair. I've also walked away from things I might have wanted to buy because the sellers felt they were able to get their price from some other target, er, custiomer.
I have said (elsewhere in this thread) that I have no problem paying more for cultural and park fees. My extra 100 baht or whatever is the price I pay for not having to pay taxes in Thailand and doesn't make me feel discriminated against in the slightest. (I'm also aware of the many free things the Thai government funds that I'm more than happy to take advantage of.)
I'm not apologizing for the system, it is the way the whole world works outside of the nanny-state residue of failed empires. Thriving within that system is just a matter of whether you're too weak-kneed to stand up for your own principles, or not.
May 04, 2018 at 5:42 am
Ron says
And here in Thailand it is also illegal.
Like pink marshmellows, some just soak up the insult; I don't.
I've made my point.
No need for me to say any more.
Except ...................
Today I went to a waterfall.
Thai entry was 20 baht.
'Aliens' was 120 baht.
We had a friendly and polite discussion in Thai about 'discrimination'.
15 minutes later I was at the base of the waterfall no having paid the discriminatory 120 baht or even the 20 baht.
THEY LET ME IN FOR FREE.
Point made.
May 04, 2018 at 3:57 pm
James E says
That's exactly what I'm talking about! Knowing the system and even trying to work within it (making the effort to learn Thai at a minimum) allows you to show that you're in the game with them, not against them. I've had similar experiences (although I've also been chased down by a park ranger on a motorcycle to cough up the extra 100) with extra things dropped into my bag by a vendor or a free treat at a street food cart. It's your attitude about the system and your demeanor in discussions/negotiations/general interactions.
And I do beg to differ on the underlying assumption that discrimination is illegal in Thailand. While enshrined in the constitution (Section 27 of the 2017 edition) the non-discrimination clause is buffered by the word "unjust". This means 1) that discrimination is okay as long as it's not prejudicial and 2) forces the burden of proof onto the person who feels discriminated against. It also doesn't specify anything beyond the rights granted in the constitution and applies specifically "to the Thai People" (Title, Chapter III). So, under the law, we are fair game.
May 04, 2018 at 10:39 pm
Joshua says
Jan 18, 2018 at 10:34 pm
Nate says
May 07, 2018 at 5:28 pm
Brad says
"Unjust discrimination against a person on the grounds of differences in origin, race, language, sex, age, disability, physical or health condition, personal status, economic and social standing, religious belief, education, or political view which is not contrary to the provisions of the Constitution, or on any other grounds shall not be permitted."
National parks are a federal concern and last week I saw the following pricing in regards entering Doi Inthanon national park:
Thai 50 baht
Foreigner 300 baht (Thai licence not accepted)
Car 30 baht
That meant that our car with 3 farang and 1 Thai cost 980 baht or $40 AUD. Australia's most expensive national park is $29 per vehicle per day... what went wrong, Australia is a much wealthier country?
I now draw your attention to a more locally managed venue. The temples in Chiang Mai and Doi Suthep. In this case I could use my Thai licence to gain free entry where the fee was 30 or 40 baht for foreign.
Your argument about the old school using barter and hence dual pricing doesn't wash in these examples.
Nov 25, 2017 at 10:54 am
TheThailandLife says
Nov 26, 2017 at 4:50 am
Brad says
On the other hand I disagree that giving the poor more money will nesasarily give them a leg up. Trouble is they squander any windfall and don't generally plan much past their next meal. They require better fiscal maturity not just more money.
Nov 26, 2017 at 8:58 am
TheThailandLife says
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:34 pm
James E says
Note that nowhere in that quote from the Constitution is the word "citizenship".
Nov 26, 2017 at 5:02 am
Brad says
Nov 26, 2017 at 9:21 am
James E. says
The way I look at it is like this: When I fly into Thailand I am usually allowed to walk right in. Stamp-stamp, without even a glance from customs. If I were Thai, and tried to enter the US like that, I'd be detained, questioned and deported. To get in legally I would have to apply for a tourist visa (US$160), go for an interview, and be able to prove I will need to leave the country. That is discrimination.
So, do I mind - as a non-Thai taxpayer - shelling out a few baht more while somebody who pays taxes there slides in for less (national parks) or free (Grand Palace)? Nope. I don't see that as discrimination any more than I consider a tourist tax applied to a hotel room or attraction elsewhere in the world as discrimination. It's a fee or tax or whatever to help pay for the construction and maintenance of public facilities that I will use, but haven't paid for with my taxes. (Yeah, and all the corruption and kickbacks to the local government but don't let me get started on that...)
As for farang pricing out in the commercial world, that's just part of the game and if the hapless tourist wanders up with that deer-in-the-headlights-look then they should just consider the result as Lesson 1.
Nov 26, 2017 at 11:43 pm
Brad says
But... it does say "...unjust discrimination...", so perhaps the discrimination on pricing is indeed "just".
Thoughts?
Nov 28, 2017 at 10:54 am
James E says
Thai people are of many different ethnic origins but were brought together by the force of arms (in the post-Ayutthya era) and became Thai with a shared mythology and language. It is indeed possible for a farang to become Thai but I seem to remember something about it being easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle... The driver's license thing has always been problematic as it is not considered an ID that proves anything. To be Thai you need an ID card and passport. Sometimes the DL thing works, sometimes it doesn't. But if you had a DL and fluent Thai I bet you'd get into a lot more places than with either one alone.
The constitution (as proposed), as most constitutions do, lays out the rights and responsibilities of participants in Thai society, This is by-and-large the rights of citizens, not visitors, and like most constitutions stays away from commercial concerns and sticks with matters of rights, law and how the government is structured and managed.
Somebody from out of the country might be willing to try and get the rights extended to them but I don't think that case would get very far.
The pricing thing is not really - IMO, anyway, discrimination. It's the difference between being a tax-paying citizen and a non-tax-paying foreigner. I realize that some foreigners are also paying taxes if they're there under a Visa and working or getting income from investing and then the price differential for government facilities could be considered unfair. But nobody ever guaranteed life was supposed to be fair.
As far as commercial price discrimination, that's just part of the game. You either play it well and get good prices and meet some great people, or you play it poorly and go away empty-handed, grumbling, and leaving a whole lot of people with some fun stories to tell at lunch.
Nov 28, 2017 at 1:03 pm
Brad says
No, I don't pay income tax in Thailand, Australia has a tax treaty with Thailand, and so my income and income tax is handled in Australia. However, I do pay Thai VAT so technically I pay tax in Thailand.
I also think that Thailand does well out of expats. If I'm bringing in, say 50,000 baht a month, that's like free money for Thailand. I didn't cost Thailand a satang in medical or education expenses. One guy doesn't do much but multiply by hundreds of thousands of expats.
For these reasons I am a believer in countries with good immigration intakes, even if that means relative easy of being an expat.
Nov 29, 2017 at 1:59 pm
Brad says
Nov 29, 2017 at 2:03 pm
James E says
I agree with you about how it should be, but we, as guests wherever we go, have to learn how things are done wherever we are and adapt. I have never lived anywhere where my not being local didn't place a target on my wallet. I have also not lived anywhere where, once I learned the local rules and at least made an effort to follow them, that I wasn't accepted and treated with respect. My take on the dual pricing dilemma is just go with it, and be prepared to play the game.
Nov 29, 2017 at 11:20 pm
Tide Seell says
Thais are citizens of a 3rd world country who want to enter the US, where the streets are paved with gold- and very probably never leave.
Whereas US citizens are more likely to enter Thailand as tourists, spend money, have a good time and then leave that corrupt den of iniquity.
May 07, 2018 at 4:41 pm
Thetruth says
Nov 25, 2017 at 7:58 am
TheThailandLife says
Nov 26, 2017 at 4:53 am
Sarrak says
Aug 29, 2017 at 9:14 am
TheThailandLife says
Aug 29, 2017 at 6:13 pm
Tommy says
While different measures rank countries slightly differently, a quick glance at the HDI places Thailand 87 out of 188 countries. There are many countries with a much lower level of income than Thailand. And even in comparatively wealthy countries, income inequality exists. There are people in my country (Canada) who make about the same monthly amount as a middle class Thai. I'm one of them. Why should I have to pay so much more than a Thai who earns the same amount as me?
Aug 29, 2017 at 1:10 am
TheThailandLife says
Aug 29, 2017 at 6:13 pm
Tide Swell says
Talk about fawning, grovelling claptrap!
This system of "dual pricing" which has official backing is nothing more than divisive and racist. I can understand a street hawker, snack seller, or market stall holder charging (or attempting to charge) a Westerner more than a Thai - that's all part of the game.
Especially in Asia.
But where the dual pricing has official approval, e.g. entry to National Parks, that really sticks in the craw.
Foreigners who live in Thailand, or who have retired there and, above all, are living in the country legally, should NOT have to pay a penny more than a Thai person.
All that bullcrap about earning 10x more than a Thai person and therefore expecting to pay more for goods and services than a Thai person, is simply that...bullcrap.
I fully support people like Richard above, who refuse to support this perniciously evil system.
Jun 14, 2017 at 7:20 am
Jimmy says
You may be able to afford to pay farang price, not all farangs living here earn lots of money, teachers for example.
May 04, 2017 at 4:12 pm
TheThailandLife says
May 04, 2017 at 4:15 pm
James says
But your article really nails it. It is our obligation as outsiders to fit into the Thai culture. It's not their obligation to bend the rules for us. You did neglect to mention that wealthier Thais also pre-pay their Thai price to historical venues, parks, and museums by paying taxes. Something we farang try to avoid to the point of standing in line at Suvarnabhumi for a quarter-hour to get our 200 baht VAT refund. Screw that.
As visitors - even if you're lucky enough to live in Thailand - support the freaking economy. Learn to speak Thai - even a little. Talk to the vendors in the market and go back to visit the ones who are accepting of your linguistic incompetence. The others will notice and try harder. Pretty soon you won't just be that striped-shirt, backpack-swinging, insanely-loud farang but you'll be that very nice striped-shirt, backpack-swinging, insanely-loud farang.
May 04, 2017 at 10:00 pm
David Carroway says
May 17, 2017 at 7:20 pm
James says
May 18, 2017 at 2:58 am
Tide Swell says
Yeah, sure you do...
Jun 14, 2017 at 10:49 am
Tide Swell says
Why on earth should I learn one word of their language? If Thais want to talk to me - or me with them - then they can jolly well speak English.
A language spoken by most civilized, educated people the world over.
What percentage of the world's population speak Thai, compared to those who speak English?
And as for "fitting into the Thai culture.." words fail me.
Why would any God-fearing Westerner want to do that?
Jun 14, 2017 at 7:28 am
James says
And, yes, I thank all things holy that you do not as well.
Jun 14, 2017 at 10:15 am
TheThailandLife says
"I landed in Siam and saw lots of little brown people. They spoke a strange language and did ghastly things like sitting on the floor when they ate. We quickly began to civilize them by teaching them to speak English, making them drink tea and beating them with sticks".
Great trolling!
Jun 14, 2017 at 3:12 pm
Tide Swell says
Jun 14, 2017 at 8:36 pm
TheThailandLife says
Do you even know where the first alphabet was developed? The first languages? The first educational institutions?
What type of "white man" are you referring to?
Seriously though, cut out the eugenics movement crap and stop insulting people. First warning issued as per the website terms.
Jun 14, 2017 at 8:51 pm
Tide Swell says
The Thais will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century to understand this simple fact.
Jul 09, 2018 at 2:56 am
Kip says
Mar 07, 2017 at 11:05 pm
TheThailandLife says
Mar 07, 2017 at 11:24 pm
Hofat d'Amato says
Aug 01, 2017 at 6:57 am
TheThailandLife says
Aug 01, 2017 at 4:04 pm
Sam says
Feb 08, 2017 at 7:47 pm
Richard says
Dec 31, 2016 at 12:34 pm
TheThailandLife says
Dec 31, 2016 at 3:56 pm
William says
Dec 14, 2016 at 2:10 am
TheThailandLife says
Dec 14, 2016 at 3:30 am
David Carroway says
And your explanation has so many holes -- you could fly a 747 through them. First, why do other Asian people (notably Filipinos, Khmer, Chinese etc. etc.) get the Thai price? The answer: a white face. It is racist in enforcement. Second, While I would agree that a government-subsidized company would have the right to offer tax-payers a discount, how does this apply to private enterprises? And Chinese owned amusement parks etc.? Third, many of the privately owned venues will not give the Thai price to resident taxpayers of white extraction.
You've taken the stupid pill -- poor Thais. Poor Thais. They have a larger economy than Norway.
Sep 26, 2016 at 11:27 am
TheThailandLife says
Sep 27, 2016 at 3:56 pm
Ken says
Sep 27, 2016 at 6:24 pm
David Carroway says
Sep 28, 2016 at 9:26 am
David Carroway says
Thank you. I never expected a response.
To Thailand Life: First, I did read your entire post. All of it. And I read it before I posted. Your economic argument was not convincing and you were wrong on your facts. Primarily, there is often a difference of far beyond 100 Baht. If it were 10 Baht, then the economic concept of rational ignorance would kick in and nobody would really care, would they? I went to Siam City Park not too long ago. The park is largely Chinese-owned. The Thai price was 300 odd Baht. The Foreigner price was 1,100 Baht. In line before me were two Filipina gals and I was with my girlfriend from Laos. The girls in front of us were speaking loudly in their native language but -- as I observed -- got the Thai price upon speaking a bit of accented Thai. My girlfriend (from Laos) got the 'Thai' price but they insisted I pay the 'foreign' price. I politely refused and told my girlfriend to go in without me. Then the girl at the counter said, "คุณอยู่นานแล้ว" and directed me to another window where my foreign girlfriend paid the 'Thai' price ticket for me. But that was an underhanded, face-saving way of going about it.
Our experiences are different, that's all. I find that the dual pricing system is racially biased.
Sep 28, 2016 at 9:25 am
Jon Grah says
A foreigner in this case feels 'trapped' in this case. Especially if they have invested >2 million in some home or other things. It seems like these fees are priced just high enough for the official to get something out of it, but just low enough for the majority or foreigners (or a good portion) to just say f**k it, pay and get on with their lives.
or is there a separate blog for that (e.g. corruption)?
Aug 31, 2016 at 4:47 am
TheThailandLife says
Sep 01, 2016 at 4:14 am
Jon Grah says
Sep 01, 2016 at 6:53 am
TheThailandLife says
Sep 02, 2016 at 3:09 pm
David Carroway says
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:16 pm
TheThailandLife says
Please also consider the following from the terms:
My thoughts and opinions naturally change with time. I consider this a necessary consequence of remaining open-minded. In light of this, any thoughts and opinions expressed within dated posts may not hold the same, nor even similar, opinions to those I may hold today.
I’m a human, and this blog reflects that fact. By this I mean that while the ideas, thoughts and information are often valuable and the product of my first-hand experiences, the writing itself may be spontaneous, un-proofed, unrevised and corrected only when necessary to address mistakes that grossly affect the intent.
Thank you for your co-operation.
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:27 pm
David Carroway says
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:45 pm
John says
Though I have noticed that most of the time there is no double pricing
at the local markets especially when you speak Thai .
Often the foreigner gets a better price than Thai people like getting a hotel room I always get a better room price than my Thai girl friends how is that possible ?Even my current Thai wife for 4 years she never got a beter room price than me and non of the other Thai girls I traveled with.( they didn't mark up either the price lol.)
Foreigners should learn to speak and listen Thai than you will find out it isn't that bad it always help to say I want discount ( pom tong can lot)
often you will get a beter price than the local Thai person because Thai people love foreigners who try to speak Thai there for they are willing to give you a bit discount .
Concerning the double pricing of the national parks I have to say that is bad for the imagine of Thailand .
Often the sales person of the tickets feels very uncomfortable about it if you point out the price difference its a bit loosing face .
Because they don't expect you to read the pricing in Thai numbers .
1.Don't start to write the Thai price in Thai numbers it gives many people a bad taste in the mouth
2.If Thai people visit the national parks with their BMW's ,Mercedes and Ducati motor bikes from outer state they have to pay the same price as a foreigner .
(easy to check look at the number plates )
Those Thai people have more money to spend than the foreigner backpacker who travels around on a shoe string budget !
I could live with this solution .
But remember you do have a choice you don't have to go there if you think its unfair or outrages expensive etc..
Keep in mind Thailand is a beautiful country and there is no need to go to those national parks with their double pricing .
There are a lot of foreigners who do pay a lot of tax in Thailand why should they get a different pricing ?
May 13, 2017 at 4:29 pm
Tide Swell says
Change your spouse often, do you?
"My Thai girlfriends.."
Quite a Jack-the-lad, aren't you?
Think you're special, do you? Some super-good looking dude? You're nothing but a sad monger.
Aug 13, 2017 at 10:24 pm
Steve says
My issue lies with extremely inflated rates . Example Khao Yai , last time I was there Thai 35 baht. Foreigner 350 baht that's not a small increase thats 10 times or 1000%. Even though 350 baht is still not a large amount of money .
The second fact that does iritate me
Is that they are not transparent about their price differences as they write the Thai price in Thai number characters that they presume we can't read. That in my opinion is deceitful if you wish to charge more by all means do so but be transparent about doing so .
Aug 28, 2016 at 4:39 pm
Brian says
Aug 25, 2016 at 9:50 pm
TheThailandLife says
Aug 28, 2016 at 6:00 pm
Ken says
I think what makes this particular fee seem so outrageously high however is the huge disparity between the Thai price and the Foreign price (which is not how you should be looking at it). After all based on our respective economies I would normally expect the Thai price to only be about 3 times less expensive and not ten. But perhaps the government just wants to make sure that even its very poorest citizens can enjoy the natural wonders of their own country. And in any case I never think of the prices in terms of how much cheaper they are for the locals. I only think in terms of how expensive it is for me personally. In fact, I prefer to think of it in terms of how much I’m saving due to the fact that my Thai girlfriend can get in cheaper. After all, in your own country when your kids tickets to some venue are cheaper than your own you do not get angry because you have to pay more for yourself than for them, but rather you are happy that you can pay less for them. It’s all in the way you look at it.
Still, you might possibly be right about the foreign prices being jacked-up in these places because they know people will feel they have no choice but to pay an exorbitant price after traveling all that way to get there. But then again, this is pretty much standard practice in every country on the planet. For example, the snacks and drinks in movie theaters here cost about 3-times more than they would cost outside of the theater because they know you have no choice but to pay. And if you take your family to Hurricane Harbor Water Park here in California you will first have to pay $20 for parking, then $40 for each adult and $30 for each child to get in. And then once inside you will have to pay nearly $20 for a locker to keep your valuables safe. When you add in the outrageous cost of food in the park you will probably end up paying at least $250 for the day. What a rip-off!
And of course not all attractions in Thailand seem to be cheaper for Thais. I remember the last time I went to Chiang Mai to visit my girlfriend’s parents we borrowed her sister’s motorbike and rode up into the mountains to do some hiking. Then on the way back to town she wanted to stop by the Tiger Kingdom because, like me, she is a huge cat lover. Anyway it seems to me that I had to pay the same price for her although I’m not entirely sure. Then after leaving there we saw a gun range and I thought it might be fun to teach her how to shoot a handgun. Unfortunately we both thought the prices were WAY too expensive. In fact, it’s 3 to 4 times more expensive to rent a gun and shoot off a hundred 9mm rounds in Thailand than it is to do so here in the USA. And I never saw any Thai pricing and the attendants never mentioned a cheaper price for Thais even though they new I only wanted my Thai girlfriend to shoot (I had my own 9mm back home so I didn’t need the practice). It was probably for the best anyway because the guns looked like they had not been cleaned in ages and I’m not sure how safe they would have been.
Anyway, as I have said in the past, I think the main reason dual pricing irritates some Westerners is because it reminds them of the fact that they will NEVER be considered to be natives no matter how long they live in Thailand. If you live in a country like Thailand or Japan you are always going to be a Farang or a Gaijin even if you’ve been there for 30 years. In other words you are still just a visitor and will never be one of them. And lets face it when you are from one of the most powerful nations on earth and you are used to strutting around like you own the world it can be hard to accept the fact that you are now merely a second class citizen at best (sorry if it sounds like I am disparaging my fellow countrymen). But I for one am perfectly okay with this.
Sure, this stuff used to bother me when I was younger. For example it really irked me at first that to rent an apartment in Tokyo I had to first find a Japanese person to be my guarantor (to take financial responsibility for me should I cause any trouble or run out on my rent). Luckily my company was willing to be my guarantor though because I would really not be at all comfortable asking a Japanese friend to do that for me. And this all seemed particularly unnecessary considering the fact that in Tokyo at the time you were required to pay the equivalent of two month rent in key money and another two month for a security deposit, plus first and last months rent - a total of six times the monthly rent to move in. Plus you had to pay $500 for a phone line and you had to buy all your own appliances and furniture.
And then there was the fact that very few landlords would even rent to foreigners to begin with. When you go to the real estate office they will show you fact sheets on various apartments and on the back of each sheet there are three sets of “yes” or “no” check boxes which the property owner has checked off. The first one is for pets, the second for children, and the third for foreigners. And believe it or not both children and pets are both much more likely to be allowed than foreigners. “How can this be?” I thought to myself at the time. How can a cat or a dog be a better tenant than me? After all, I’m completely toilet trained and I don’t have any sharp claws to scratch up the floors or walls.
In any case, I stopped being bothered by these kinds of things a long time ago. When you move to a foreign country you cannot expect them to change themselves just to suit you, but rather you must adapt yourself to your new environment.
Aug 29, 2016 at 12:44 pm
TheThailandLife says
Aug 31, 2016 at 1:30 am
Ken says
Anyway, in the past I have never come across dual pricing often enough to really make it worth my while to run out and get a Thai driver license. If I end up retiring there however I will certainly be getting my Thai driver license and will try to take advantage of those discounts.
Of course, I am personally bothered much more by overpricing in general than I am by dual pricing. For example when I was last in Phuket the beach chair rental price was twice what it was in Pattaya at the time. And this difference can really add up to a lot if you and your girlfriend are going to the beach nearly every day (as much as 4000 Baht extra a month). But I can’t blame the vendors for this. They are simply setting prices based on what they know the typical Phuket tourist is willing to pay.
As for the UK I have never been there myself but I understand that living in London is just as expensive these days as living in San Francisco or New York City – two places that I could never even begin to afford to live.
Aug 31, 2016 at 7:05 am
David Carroway says
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:19 pm
Tide Swell says
Don't they take sterling in your neck of the woods?
Jun 16, 2017 at 9:05 am
wse says
In 99% of all fees when you have a Thai driving licence you pay same as the Thai. And I stay in Thailand for 16 years in a row.
Jul 29, 2016 at 9:54 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jul 30, 2016 at 1:07 am
Tide Swell says
Why is it a bandaid solution?
(a) we are not told that the production of a Thai driving licence in order to secure Thai entry fees is an "official" policy;
(b) even if it was an official policy, I would bet it would be left up to the attraction management - or even the person in-charge of the attraction or the cash point, to implement it. If that person did not want to implement the policy they would simply ignore it; and
(c) such a policy does not address the issue of visitors to Thailand, (or Westerners who live in the country), who cannot produce a Thai driving licence. In the case of the latter, nobody has shown me, or convinced me, that any other proof of residence in Thailand will secure payment of the Thai price.
No "thethailandlife." have the cojones (which is not an expletive) to call this practice for what it is. Racist, venal bull you-know-what.
A means for an avaricious section of society to exploit people on the basis of their race and the colour of their skin.
And please, spare us the sanctimonious claptrap about "my dear, sweet, little old lady from whom I buy my fruit charges me less than she even charges Thai people because I kiss her.....
Or "I don't mind paying 10 or even a 100 times what a Thai family have to pay if it means that a poor Thai family get to visit an attraction which they could otherwise not afford."
Or "I read, write and speak Thai," (yeah, sure you do) and "I read about Thai culture and history," (yawn, yawn).
We are not interested in such twaddle.
I repeat; call this insidious, divisive, venal, racist practice for what it is.
Jun 19, 2017 at 3:07 am
James says
Okay. Unimportant.
Jun 19, 2017 at 7:06 am
Ken says
Jul 30, 2016 at 5:14 am
TheThailandLife says
Jul 30, 2016 at 4:36 pm
Tide Swell says
Any info would be useful."
Why would it be useful? Useful to who? You? Don't make me laugh.
Just what, pray tell, would YOU be able to do about this practice - assuming it is true?
Oh, and the word is spelt "dinosaur" btw. Invest in a good dictionary.
Jun 21, 2017 at 9:36 am
TheThailandLife says
If you read the post in full you'll see that I don't say I agree with dual pricing in principle but rather seek to broaden the debate beyond the simplistic, common narrative that it is simply "racist".
I can only assume that because you don't understand the dynamics of Thai society and its social constructs that you are unable to digest my points and debate sensibly with an open mind.
You might also take a moment to consider my disclaimer:
My thoughts and opinions naturally change with time. I consider this a necessary consequence of remaining open-minded. In light of this, any thoughts and opinions expressed within dated posts may not hold the same, nor even similar, opinions to those I may hold today.
Bear in mind that this post was written over 7 years ago; a lot has changed in Thailand and in my experience since then.
I understand that many people become infuriated by the title, so much so that they don't bother to read the full content of the post – which is a shame.
I accept that it is clickbait to a degree; obviously I did this on purpose at the time and it attracted a lot of views because of that. But those who do read it in its entirety tend to appreciate it for what it is: a post that opens up a debate beyond the usual black and white opinion – whether they agree or not.
I appreciate you taking the time to post your comments, and I encourage people to share their views if they disagree with me. But I won't tolerate abusive, profane or rude comments that don't bring any value to the subject matter. Second warning issued.
Jun 22, 2017 at 1:41 am
Tide Swell says
I swear to God - threaten me and it will be the last thing you will do - and still live.
Jun 25, 2017 at 12:32 pm
Michelle says
They do the same thing in China and Hong Kong and probably other countries.
I'll never get over it and never be happy with it.
Thailand will never be a wealthy country.
Jul 28, 2016 at 8:04 pm
theguest says
Sep 13, 2016 at 2:30 pm
Søren viking says
Its a economical thing you say, poor people have to pay less, and rich people have to pay a lot more??? what about the wealthy Thai people With big fancy car and everything, that can walk right into the Thai line and pay 1/3 of the price too, while I, a low income retired farang have to pay 3 time as much . Get real dude . it is pure and simple racism. And it pisses me of in a a degree , that I prefer to spend my retirement somewhere else. PERIOD.
Jul 24, 2016 at 12:05 am
TheThailandLife says
Jul 24, 2016 at 12:07 am
Ken says
I suppose I could start off by getting into the psychology behind why certain types of people get so insanely upset over dual pricing in Thailand and even mistakenly think of it as “racist” in nature. But I’m afraid this would only serve to piss off half of the readers and bore the other half to tears. So instead I’ll just concentrate on the policy itself and these most recent comments.
The first misconception that we need to put to bed once and for all is this silly notion that dual pricing is somehow racist. The fact of the matter is the practice does not meet any known definition of the word “racism”. And this should be so painfully obvious to any intelligent, rational person that I am not even going to waste my time trying to explain it here. After all, if some guy tries to tell me that a cat is in fact a dog, or that the earth is really only 4000 years old, I’m not going to waste my time and energy arguing the point with him. Because to do so would just leave me flustered and stressed out and would accomplish nothing in the end. You simply cannot reason with an irrational person so there is really no point in even trying.
So, dual pricing is most definitely NOT racist. But what about being discriminatory? This one might not be so open and shut, but lets see.
The definition of “discrimination” reads as follows: “The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex”. So what does this mean exactly? Does it suggest that perhaps car insurance companies are discriminating against certain people by charging different rates? After all, I can be charged more for being a certain age or sex, for living in certain cities or certain parts of cities, or even for being poor. So, even if I am the safest driver on the face of the planet I am still being judged based on my group. This certainly doesn’t seem fair at all, but is it really discriminatory?
Of course not! Insurance companies do not have a crystal ball which tells them how good a driver I am so in order to stay profitable they have to play the odds. And this means that I have to pay rates that are in part based on the collective driving habits and abilities of my group. This may be inadvertently somewhat prejudicial but it is certainly not “unjust” seeing as how it is necessary.
By the way, the Thai government also does not have a crystal ball, and charging people based on their individual incomes would be a bit absurd. Can you imagine standing in line a museum waiting for each person to have his net worth determined somehow? It doesn’t take long at all to determine who is Thai and who is not though. And foreigners belong to a group that, on the whole, is vastly more wealthy than Thais are.
Anyway lets look at another scenario. Let’s say that I decide to start charging visitors to my house a small fee to use my home phone or to use the restroom. This would definitely make me a major league tightwad and a very weird guy. But would I be discriminating against my guest by charging them simply because they are not members of my household? Of course not! After all, I would have nothing against these people and I would not think I was somehow superior to them. I would just think that, as guest in my house, they should pay for what they use. And let’s face it we are ALL merely guests in Thailand and can never be citizens.
So, if dual pricing is discriminatory then one could also make the argument that even being required to have a work visa to work in Thailand is discriminatory. Certain things are always going to be required of you as a visitor to a country that are not required of natural born citizens of that country. That’s just the way it is and there is no point crying about it or in developing such a persecution complex that you somehow think you are being discriminated against or are the victim of racism.
And just what are we talking about here anyway in terms of expenses? I spent over a year in Thailand all told and the total amount of extra money I had to spend during that time on dual pricing was exactly 160 baht. Now for me to get all bent out of shape over such a small amount I would have to have a fairly large stick crammed pretty far up my ass, don’t you think?
Anyway, I simply look on those extra expenses the same way that I do the fees I pay to renew my visas. In other words, they are just the normal expenses of being a guest in someone else's country.
Jul 24, 2016 at 12:28 pm
Ken says
Jul 24, 2016 at 1:12 pm
David Carroway says
Sep 29, 2016 at 2:01 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jul 28, 2016 at 6:01 pm
David Carroway says
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:20 pm
PJ says
Two side of the coins. We Thai people are discriminated by our nationality (not by race) from the civilised countries too and it might be far worse? I visited a country in Europe for two weeks in last year. I had to pay 100 eur to the embassy for the tourist visa, 20 eur for visa agency center because now the embassy only accept the application thru the agency… spent more than one week to prepare the documents… financial statement.. flight/hotel booking... took half day leave to the visa agency.. and the visa agency just refused my application because I planned to stay in two cities within that country but didn’t have the transportation proof between the two cities… ok.. I went back on the next day (boss getting angry) with new travel plan but they said it’s not good that my plane ticket confirmation has Gmail logo at the top.. ok.. I paid 10 bahts for their photo copy service to crop out that gmail.. finally got visa on the next 15 business days .. I still feel so fortunate though because I live in Bangkok with all the embassies present here… some people have to take days to leave their home and come to Bangkok just to do these expensive process. I enjoyed that trip to Europe anyway. The entrance to several attractions were very expensive there compare to here but I prepared for that.
I also travelled to Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar. They are very beautiful countries and of course dual pricing is still practising there. That time I was a little annoyed but didn’t feel any big deal at all because the historical places there have high maintenance cost and still they have to keep the locals accessible. Until now I read many topics about dual pricing in Thailand and I feel wow it’s really big deal for people from the western and civilised countries. We didn’t realised that it’s illegal in some countries and many foreign visitors resent on this… Please don’t let this be the reason for not visiting here… We are trying to keep with international standard and trying to preserve our culture.
Jul 14, 2016 at 11:20 am
TheThailandLife says
Jul 14, 2016 at 2:55 pm
PJ says
Regarding the tourist visa, maybe I should have used the word ‘visa application center’ instead of visa agent? Most of the embassies from Europe now have official visa centers in Bangkok e.g. British embassy has VFS Global as their visa application center. These centers are third parties and privately run. So the visa applicants have to pay fee to both embassy and the the visa center.
I agree the corruption here in this region is very bad. If this is all gone, our economy might be on par with the first world and let hope that could solve the pricing issue.
Jul 14, 2016 at 3:34 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jul 14, 2016 at 6:47 pm
Jon says
But there are rules on this. Like they must offer basic service at a certain price and within a certain timeframe. But of course the agents can offer 'rush' service for additional fee.
Jul 14, 2016 at 5:21 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jul 14, 2016 at 6:49 pm
Michelle says
I PAID BHT1500 FOR A SINGLE RE-ENTRY VISA WHEN IT ONLY COSTS BHT1,000.
I PAID AN EXTRA BHT500 TO SEND MONEY BACK OVERSEAS.
I PAY TWICE AS MUCH TO SWIM AT THE POOL COMPARED TO WHAT THAIS PAY.
I PAY BHT15,000 WHEN CUAGHT FOR DRINK RIDING WHEN THE THAIS PAY FAR LESS.
THIS LIST GOES ON AND ON AND ON!
THE THAIS SEE FARUNG AS EASY MONEY AND DO NOT CARE ABOUT THIER SAFETY
Jul 28, 2016 at 8:09 pm
Pj says
I'm very sorry to what happen to you. I hope our government and our society will do something soon. Our system and and economy are still not well developed. Still yes many thai people think that foreigners are rich but we are now opening our mind more to outside world. Please bear with us.
Jul 30, 2016 at 9:46 am
Kent says
If there was dual pricing in Australia for rich foreigners there would be outrage. Not from foreigners but from the people who live here.
Another point you say is the immigrates aren't truly accept as nationals in other countries is wrong. Yes, racism does exist in Australia but no where near to the same extent as Thailand. Here if you call yourself Australian then you are Australian, no matter where you were born. I personally have many friend who were not born in Australia but are just as Aussie as me, if not more.
I love Thailand but due to its ultra-nationalism (and endemic corruption) I don't think I could ever live there. It is also the ultra-nationalism and endemic corruption which continues to stifle the nation's economy. Keeping the rich Thai rich and the poor Thai very poor.
But in the end of the day when I am there if I don't want to pay the asking price I don't. I just walk away.
May 19, 2016 at 6:30 pm
Ken says
By the way, if you want to live in a place where Asians TRULY hate White people then try living in Hawaii for a while. They usually keep these feelings bottled up for the sake of the tourist dollars but many of the so-called “locals” harbor an intense hatred of Whites, and White mainlanders in particular. Although hopefully things have changed in the past 20 years.
As for Westerners not being able to attain full Thai citizenship this also has nothing to do with racism. The problem is, people who grew up in a heterogeneous society, such as that of the USA, tend to take it for grated that everyone who is born here is automatically granted citizenship, regardless of race. But this is not at all the norm in homogeneous countries like Japan and Thailand. In these places race is an integral part of nationality and citizenship and always has been. Their way is not “wrong” it’s just different. And it’s certainly not racist.
I think I have told this story before but I have a friend in Japan who has a Korean father and a Japanese mother. And because of this - and despite the fact that she was born and raised in Japan - she has to carry a Korean passport (a country she has never even been to), and is not considered to be a Japanese citizen. This may sound outrageously unfair to most westerners but this is just how things are done over there. Incidentally, just because the government of a particular country does not consider expats of a different race to be full fledged citizens does not mean that the people of that country do not accept them with open arms in many cases.
Of course human beings are very irrational and insecure creatures and whenever they find themselves to suddenly be part of a minority these insecurities get kicked into overdrive. For example when I was living in Japan I constantly had to listen to my fellow expats bellyache about being “discriminated” against and looked down upon by the Japanese. They even somehow convinced themselves that the word “Gaijin” is a derogatory term, which of course it is not. In fact this argument became so contentious back in the 90’s that a popular bilingual magazine, Hiragana Times, had the brilliant idea to stop using the word Gaijin in their articles and replace it with the term “NJ” (Non-Japanese). I have never heard of anything more absurdly ridiculous in my life. The problem is we have become so insanely politically correct here in the USA that we are constantly deciding that this or that word has somehow become “offensive” and so we change it to something else, which means the exact same thing. And then a few years down the road we will decide that this new word is now offensive and must of course be changed yet again. And I guess its only natural that we would try to export this insanity to other countries like Japan.
Back to insecurities though, this is the reason people are often absolutely “sure” they are being discriminated against when in fact they are not 95% of the time. If a person is insecure about his weight then every time he doesn’t get the job he interviewed for, or when he feels he is not being treated right, he will attribute this to being overweight. And if he is a minority he will be sure that every time things don’t go his way its because of his race. That not to say that this occasionally won’t actually be the case but the point is that whether it is or not he will always be "certain" that it is. And when people move to a foreign country they often become very insecure in their surroundings and this causes them to imagine that they are being treated badly due to their race or nationality.
Another issue I think is that many Whites from places like the USA have just became very spoiled and have this huge sense of entitlement these days. So when they move to a place where they are no longer the top dogs they just can’t handle it and they tend to throw temper tantrums when they feel they are being treated like second class citizens. I think of them kind of like a small child trying to get in with a new group of friends. And when it doesn’t work out he says to himself: “How dare these other kids not make me a full fledged member of their club when I am such a totally awesome person and when I was one of the cool kids in my old group back home.
All I can say is, its time to grow up, boys and girls, and loose the crappy attitudes and righteous indignation if you want to live in another country.
May 21, 2016 at 2:17 pm
Michael Lennie says
Apr 15, 2016 at 6:26 pm
Phil says
Original Article is Full of Liberal Rethoric But cant manage to justify what is Shocking Buddhist Greed and Obvious Discrimination based on National Origin. I cant stand Hypocrisy and Scam Artists , even when they display a Big Smile !!!
Japan is much more Fair, Honest and Respectable in my Opinion based on Multiple Trips to Tokyo, Kyoto and Okinawa.
May 16, 2016 at 12:49 pm
David says
Now, if it's a situation where you negotiate and they want to charge you more, I accept that. I've had that happen so many times. I ask the price, 150 baht. I walk away and ask my Japanese gf to ask, 80 baht.
Mar 24, 2016 at 12:17 am
Ken says
By the way, I did not mind in the least paying more for my entrance fee. My girlfriend on the other hand went ballistic on the guy when he ask if she was Thai, as if this innocent and necessary question were some sort of insult or something. I swear, I’ve known ladyboys who were less prone to mood swings than this girl.
Apr 18, 2016 at 12:26 pm
David Carroway says
Asian faces do NOT pay the over-charge.
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:25 pm
Hofat d'Amato says
Aug 01, 2017 at 7:11 am
Talley says
Jan 12, 2016 at 12:02 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 12, 2016 at 4:35 pm
John Cody says
Apr 17, 2016 at 9:40 pm
TheThailandLife says
Apr 17, 2016 at 10:30 pm
David Carroway says
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:27 pm
john says
Oct 21, 2015 at 10:58 am
David Carroway says
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:27 pm
Arthur Hay says
May 21, 2015 at 8:40 am
TheThailandLife says
May 21, 2015 at 11:54 am
John Cody says
Although literally a "farang" is someone from France, the origins of the word comes from the Persian "feranghi" and later became a word to describe westerners. So in a sense, the term "farang" is perhaps even a little less specific when it comes to race or ethnicity than "kon piu khao" but due to it's overuse at times it can appear to have negative connotations even if it normally isn't intended. As you have already pointed out, this will depend on the context. Referring to a western stranger as a farang is not bad, but a westerner who's name is known, now that's just discrimination.
Equally, I wouldn't necessarily use the word "ชาวต่างชาติ" (chao dtang chaat) or similar to refer to a westerner because what happens when said westerner is actually a Thai citizen? A term which although it's more formal actually literally means "foreigner" would be more discriminatory when used inappropriately than the term "farang" or "piu kao". Another alternative would be westerner, which is "ชาวตะวันตก" (chao tawan dtok). Obviously, it would be contradictory to refer to a westerner who is a Thai citizen as being a "chao dtang chaat" and therefore, referring to them as "farang" would be better.
In short, there are "farang" who are Thais, but there are no "chao dtang chaat" who are Thais.
Apr 17, 2016 at 9:50 pm
chris Stark says
Apr 06, 2015 at 8:36 pm
John Cody says
Apr 17, 2016 at 9:53 pm
DS Farang says
In the ocean world underneath Siam square for instance, the fixed cost of operation is very high (penguins etc), but the additional cost of letting each new customer come in is very low. They also have a huge price difference for Farang and Thai, 1500 to 500 Bht I believe. (!! Whoa totally unfair right!!)
Say the fixed cost of operation for ocean world is 10,000,000 B over period x. The marginal cost of each customer they let in the door may be something like 100B (for the labor cost of the cashier, security, maintenance etc.)
Now they wouldn’t be profitable if they charged everyone 500B, (10,000,000 of fixed cost is a lot to pay for), but if they didn’t have a lower Thai price, then they would lose those customers altogether- who are paying 300-400 B above the additional cost that their presence imposes on the business.
So instead of 2000 Thai customers paying 500B and 2000 farang customers paying 1500B every week to cover the costs, there'd be only the Farang and a few Thais. That could mean that the farang price actually gets higher- not lower- because there are fewer customers overall covering the same fixed cost.
As for the gov't imposed dual pricing at parks etc., makes perfect sense. Many farang, even those who work here, are fair weather friends. Come to thailand when they're young, leave if there is conflict, or if they have a medical emergency, or just want to 'get more serious' about life back home. So heck yes they're charged more for attractions. Spot on.
Mar 06, 2015 at 3:59 pm
TheThailandLife says
Mar 06, 2015 at 5:25 pm
Jacob says
Jan 16, 2016 at 11:31 pm
John Cody says
When you have an entrance price of 300 Baht for Thais and 450 for foreigners for example, that's just greed.
If the fixed costs of operating were say 1 million Baht a month and 1000 Thais came but just 3 foreigners came (yes, that's what usually happens in most places in Thailand) then they would receive 300 x 1000 = 300,000 a month + 3 x 450 = 1350 => 300,000 + 1,350 = 301,350. If however, everyone paid 300 then it would simply be 1003 x 300 = 300,900. So foregoing that extra 450 Baht (150 Baht extra per person) really isn't going to make a difference is it?
But when you consider that say another 10 foreigners have been put off visiting because they know about the higher price, then the actual extra income they could have earned that is now foregone is 10 x 300 = 3,000 - 1,350 = 1,650.
I know that's a simplistic example but I think you can see what I'm getting at.
Also, I think if middle class Thais can afford to pay 300 they can probably also afford to pay 400. They aren't that poor. They definitely own a car, probably a condo or house in a moo baan, a smartphone, they just had lunch at Sizzler, so why do they need to pay 150 Baht less than some dreadlocked backpacker with no shoes, a torn shirt, no car, who just spent 60 Baht eating lunch at the food court to save money and only 1000 Baht in his wallet?
Apr 17, 2016 at 10:03 pm
David Carroway says
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:32 pm
Bak Sida says
To clarify a bit - it isn't actually Thailand's history or culture itself I have a problem with. Indeed as you say l know very little of it, and most Thais know little more as far as I can tell. Rather it's modern Thailand's treatment of it which seems lacking.
We had these "cultural awareness" evenings at my company and they always featured the same awkward dance by people in traditional clothes, then a meal. No one was ever really able to explain anything about the significance of any of it.
Not that I really expect very much of these things anyway, some sort of a back story would be nice!
Most of the museums and so forth I visited were the same story and no one seemed able or interested in explaining anything else. Just selling souvenirs.
Again I expect an element of that but it seemed very hard to get past it because generally the people don't know and are not interested.
Where I am in the UK at the moment there are at least 3 castles within about 20 minutes drive, a large countrt house owned by a Victorian industrialist and a botanical garden all of which are open to the public with one price and information about their history. There's also 2 local craft breweries, which is nice. And that's just a little speck on the map in a county that most people wouldn't have heard of.
Nov 03, 2014 at 4:06 pm
TheThailandLife says
Each part of the country draws on different influences: Be it Malay in the South, Laotian/Southern Chinese in the Northeast or the Burmese tribes in the far North, the country is stooped in rich history.
Multiple religious influences make Thai culture very unique; the same goes for Thai cuisine.
And then there's the kingdoms to study, not to mention some exceptional artists and poets, and of course the colourful people...
Nov 03, 2014 at 1:37 pm
Bak Sida says
I suppose it depends what you compare it to, but personally I find just about any corner of Europe far more stimulating.
Nov 03, 2014 at 1:16 pm
Timchia Basil says
And you contradict yourself when you say that Thailand is a great place to live and yet say that foreigners shouldn't complain about and go home if they don't like it. Well why should foreigners, particularly expats accept this vile practice, which clearly shows that to any establishment that practices it, foreigners are nothing more than people that can and should be exploited and that they can never be integrated into society unless they qualify for and receive Thai citizenship (which very few do). That's clearly a sign that Thai based expats are treated as second class citizens.
Imagine if Thais were charged more for being foreigners in the west - they should be, if your argument holds true because after all, if they could afford to buy a place ticket to the west then they must be rich too right? And why shouldn't Americans get a discount for being American back home? Or Australians, Europeans etc.?
Nov 03, 2014 at 12:19 am
TheThailandLife says
Nov 03, 2014 at 12:24 pm
Bak Sida says
Fortunately I've moved on, I'm no longer in Thailand and had forgotten about this silly practice until a reminder popped up in my inbox.
Back in the real world now and it's made me realise that by and large the moaners there are right. It's a pretty shit country. It doesn't really have very much cultural heritage to speak of because most of the country are still peasant farmers. It's got a few generic Buddhist trinkets which they hype up beyond belief.
The odd bits of genuinely interesting historical stuff they have are hardly worth visiting because they know SFA about them anyway. You'll find more on Wikipedia or similar than you will with their drivelling Thinglish translations, and tacky gift shops.
Most times you're being asked to pay for something it's just some tourist clap trap anyway and you're best off avoiding it.
I was there for 3 years with work and while there were some things I enjoyed, it's rich and unique culture wasn't one of them, and nor was their dimwitted weirdness about foreigners.
Nov 03, 2014 at 12:57 pm
TheThailandLife says
Nov 03, 2014 at 1:04 pm
Kasem saowijit says
You've got your right to your opinion but its wrong. Thailand is beautiful and always will be
Jan 25, 2016 at 1:45 pm
John Cody says
Apr 17, 2016 at 10:11 pm
David Carroway says
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:34 pm
Jonathan says
I'm so disapointed about this country . 39.8% of Thaïs are racist .. Welcome to the land of Smile :l
:)
Feb 11, 2016 at 10:59 am
Farangle says
Nov 01, 2013 at 9:11 pm
TheThailandLife says
Nov 02, 2013 at 12:43 pm
John Cody says
Personally I own both a car and motorcycle - haven't taken public transport in Thailand for years aside from one or two short distance taxi rides when I was with a friend and parked my car far away or something.
Apr 17, 2016 at 10:16 pm
Tim says
If you have savings / a pension that enables you to pay the 'farang' price, then you're very lucky. I've spent most of my working life in Thailand and do not. For other expats in my position, I cordially invite you to 'like' a Facebook community page my wife and I set up (https://www.facebook.com/foreigner.friendly.destinations.in.thailand). Advice is given on how to secure the correct price at Thai tourist sites, as well as details of foreigner-friendly and foreigner-unfriendly destinations. We encourage users to provide feedback on tourist sites too, though this is not compulsory. Look forward to seeing you soon. Many thanks for your time.
Kind regards,
Tim
Aug 21, 2013 at 6:23 pm
TheThailandLife says
Aug 21, 2013 at 9:56 pm
Tim says
Aug 24, 2013 at 3:43 pm
Adam @ PergiDulu says
The other thing is that it's not just economics. If it was just economics, the prices would be negotiable and the sellers would take as much money as they could from the buyer usually resulting in rich buyers paying more. But when there is fixed pricing, it doesn't work that way. Indonesians who are on average much poorer than Thais also get slugged with a higher price and are therefore often excluded from some attractions. Because there is no room for them to negotiate or get the poor person's price. It stinks.
Jan 15, 2013 at 11:12 am
John Cody says
Apr 17, 2016 at 10:22 pm
Greg says
Your basic argument is the same one that Thais use to justify double pricing - farang have more money than Thais, so they can afford to pay more. While your second argument that it's based on 'sensible economics' is certainly worth more discussion, the entire scheme is based on assumption and profiling, and upon closer inspection, the whole argument falls apart.
While I am indeed fortunate enough to make more money than some Thais I know, other Thais I know make much more than I do, and certainly come from families that own property, land and large businesses that pull in more money in a month than I'll see in my lifetime. Following your argument, they should pay more than me. How much? Is it a sliding scale? Should we show our pay slips?
Further to that, what if two Thais go to the same attraction - Somchai from Bangkok and Pimporn from Buriram. Should Somchai pay more because people from Bangkok have a higher average income than people from Buriram? How finely do you slice it - there are poor people and rich people in Bangkok too - do you divvy it up by neighborhood? And how would the gate attendant of an attraction decide who pays more? Just as they know I'm a farang by my white face, can they assume that because Pimporn has dark skin more commonly seen in Isaan that she from Buriram?
What if, say, the London Eye charged one price for locals and 3x that price for Thais visiting the UK. Well, they can afford to travel to an expensive country, so shouldn't they pay more than some local high school kid?
I'm not saying there's an easy answer - I certainly don't have one - I'm just saying the practice if ripe for abuse, and it's a slippery slope to full-on discrimination.
Jan 15, 2013 at 10:17 am
Nick says
Jan 05, 2013 at 10:54 am
TheThailandLife says
Jan 05, 2013 at 6:02 pm
Steven says
Dec 29, 2012 at 3:24 am
TheThailandLife says
Dec 29, 2012 at 3:42 am
bibblies says
Jan 23, 2013 at 6:42 pm
John Cody says
Yes, that's exactly it. The museums and cultural places of interest are all made with this demographic in mind. They certainly aren't attracting your Somchai rice farmers and unskilled labourers.
Since when can Somchai afford to pay even 100 Baht to see a cultural attraction?
Apr 17, 2016 at 10:26 pm
TheThailandLife says
Apr 17, 2016 at 11:04 pm
Jon says
And let's not talk about Phuket taxi and any concept of fair pricing in the same sentence.
On the flip side, I have to look at all of the "
free lunches" that I've gotten (collectively) while in Thailand and that 200 baht tuk tuk was just one of those things that you have to suck it up and smile about as part of the dues you pay.
I'm okay with double-pricing when I know ahead of time what the deal is. But if a venue is supposed to be one price, and I am quoted another, it's a whole different ball game. As I understand it, if you have a thai id or identification such as a residence certificate, work permit, or even a local thai bank card, you can get into some of the places at local prices.
Dec 25, 2012 at 12:42 pm
TheThailandLife says
Dec 25, 2012 at 6:13 pm
Brian Binns says
Dec 25, 2012 at 11:30 am
TheThailandLife says
Dec 25, 2012 at 6:08 pm
Hofat d'Amato says
Aug 01, 2017 at 7:37 am
TheThailandLife says
Aug 01, 2017 at 4:07 pm
David Carroway says
Sep 29, 2016 at 1:40 pm