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Opinion Piece: Is Degrading Thai Women Part of Our European Nature?

It isn’t that I’m not used to the negative stereotyping and degradation of Thai women, it’s just that each time I witness the mindlessness of my fellow Europeans, the more disturbed I become by the ignorance and damage caused by such behaviour.

It seems Thailand can’t be mentioned without some ignoramus making a stupid comment based on pub rumour / the experiences of a sex tourist. A prime example of this was a dinner I recently attended with some friends and associates.

A few members of the party had previously holidayed in Thailand, others had heard about Thailand through friends, and naturally, with my presence, the conversation took a Thai theme. It wasn’t long before the comments started to fly and Thai women became the punching bag.

One of the guys explained that he had gone for a Thai massage to heal a neck problem, this statement was then met with rude comments pertaining to Thai women and oral sex.

Another guy in the group then told of a woman he knew who had recently returned from a business trip in Thailand and had witnessed Thai women putting darts in their private parts at a show.

The jokes continued to spill, and even when someone tried to describe a non-sexual experience of the country, he or she was met with a barrage of double entendres and sleazy comments.

What’s strange to me is that the general perception of Thailand is one of a huge knocking shop, a country consumed by sex, yet except for a few strips in the major tourist areas, not only is this completely inaccurate, but totally out of sync with what is in fact a prudish nation by nature.

Thai women (generally) don’t like to openly speak about sex and are not open about their relationships. Funnily enough, it is European women who have a reputation in Thailand for showing cleavage, getting naked and being somewhat promiscuous – yet it is we who point fingers.

Bar Stool Experiences Are Not a Reflection of Everyday Thailand

Even more disturbing is that the negative imagery engrained on the minds of foreigners is passed on by the most unreliable of sources – tourists who spend weeks on end sitting drunk on bar stools, sleeping with prostitutes and never getting outside of the hedonistic circus.

Thailand is known throughout the world for the red light strips of Bangkok (all three of them) and a few scattered amongst the tourist islands. But then Amsterdam is also famed for its prostitution.

And indeed the group I had dined with that night had recently been to Amsterdam. Yet Dutch women are not perpetually referred to as potential prostitutes or constantly degraded in jest.

No, Holland gets away with being a place where prostitution is legal. English women also escape punishment, even though we have Soho in London and a wealth of street prostitution up and down the country, not to mention endless adverts for visiting massage services online, in local papers and magazine supplements.

And let us not forget the numerous times Spearmint Rhino and other strip clubs have been exposed for prostitution.

If a Thai man spoke about English, or European, women in the way we European men speak about Thai women, he would be verbally abused. But we think its fine to tarnish an entire nation of women with the sex worker brush.

“He’s got a Thai girlfriend”, “Did she used to work in a bar/is she a ladyboy?”

Would you ask a friend if their European-born girlfriend, or mum, used to be a prostitute? I very much doubt it.

How Did Thai Women Get This Reputation?

So how and why did the Thai female come to be seen in this light?

Largely because of the Vietnam War, actually.

To simplify the story, American forces had a huge presence in Thailand during the war, and carried out 80% of air strikes on North Vietnam from air bases situated mainly in the North East of Thailand.

At the request of the U.S. government, Thailand provided rest and recreation services (R&R) to U.S. servicemen, which the Americans affectionately labelled I&I, intercourse and intoxication.

The war injected $16m into the Thai economy year on year, money that would need replacing by some means when the war ended.

During their stay, some servicemen took girlfriends and some took wives, many had mistresses and took care of their needs financially.

But with the servicemen gone, tourism rising and the rich-poor divide increasing, many of those involved in R&R were lured to the capital for more I&I with foreign tourists.

Subsequently, Pattaya, Soi Cowboy, Nana and other sex areas were established, and ever since, the government has allowed Thai women from the poorer sectors of society to sell sex discreetly (r not so) in these areas.

Of course this suits them because it injects money into the economy and acts as a self-serving welfare system.

Would We Speak the Same Way if They Were White?

Contrary to popular belief, the concept of Go-Go bars and “Bargirls” actually originates from China. The concept migrated to Thailand as demand rose for this trend. Statistically, both China and Japan have bigger sex industries than Thailand.

In fact, it is estimated less than 1.7% of the population work in the sex industry (men and women), so why the funny looks when a person says they live in Thailand, or they have a Thai girlfriend, or would like to visit the country?

Arguably, Thailand has no more sex available then any European country, so I wonder if there is a deeper issue at hand?

I ask, if we were to consider Thai’s as “white”, would we condemn their women in the same way?

That might sound far-fetched, but the same people who demonise Thai women are for the most part the same who make racist and bigoted comments about other non-whites.

Some Europeans make a habit out of stereotyping entire ‘dark skinned’ countries over the actions of a minority of their citizens, but as Europeans we would never admit that copious amounts of our own women are stripping and sleeping with men for money.

Seldom do conversations concerning Thailand speak of beautiful temples, serene landscape, provincial diversity, an interesting amalgamation of eastern culture or the fact that its people are some of the kindest, dearest, friendliest in the world.

No, generally we would rather focus on the men who flock to Thailand each year and pay peanuts to sleep with under-privileged women whose lives have put them in a position none of us would choose for our own daughters, mothers or sisters.

We would rather come back home and speak about a show where a woman is completely degraded through the firing of ping-pong balls out of her vagina than speak of the hospitality of Northern Thailand, fine architecture of the Grand Palace or amazing beaches.

And because of that, Thai women are thought of in a derogatory way. They are not seen as individuals, but as a collective representation of a few seedy sex strips in a foreign land.

But then this is what we are good at. We Europeans have been doing this for centuries, going around the world degrading, judging, manipulating and stealing; all in the name of progression, self satisfaction and enjoyment.

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  1. Thank you so much .... I almost lost my faith in expats in Thailand as they always treat me disrespectfully and think they are smarter, even in a professional environment. Numerous websites said Thai women are lying and easy to have sex with.For me, with my upbringing, I would say that might be because of the type of girls foreigners like. I don’t hang with those girls who make it their job to find a westerner as a husband and dress purposely to get a man.Scammers are bad people not smart ones. A Thai wife who runs away from her husband with money is a bad person who betrays trust. The same as westerners nowadays talking nice just to have sex with Thai women and bragging about it online, as another woman among the 50 other ones he get in to bed in 3 months.From my view, when seeing such comments toward women, I feel pity for them. Look, a fat old narcissist man who is a no one in their home country dating a beautiful woman half his age. They can’t communicate much together, and he treats the woman like a maid + sex slave.Now, for all the suffering he endures when she is gone, and then he calls it love? Funny ,right? Besides money, what makes him attractive? If the women in his home country don't love him, why should a Thai woman? Bad attitude is what brings him there and that was the price for a woman to pretend that she loves him.
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    • Hi Sirin, thank you for your comments. Unfortunately there are Thai women who are desperate for a foreign boyfriend or any man with money so that they can have a better life. Let's face it, a lot of these women come from poor backgrounds and already have children that they need to take care of. So they play a numbers game: they look for foreign men and go out with as many foreign men as possible, hoping that sooner or later they will meet a man who wants to stay with them and take care of them. But this is not exclusive to Thailand; this happens the world over.On the other side many of the men are simply taking advantage of this situation and sleeping with as many women as possible. I don't have a problem with adults making the choice to have sex with each other, and of course men and women both discuss their sexual exploits with their close friends, but what I don't like is to hear men degrading women and generalising about a whole race of women based on a few experiences with a certain type of woman from a certain sector of society. It is unnecessary.And, why is the woman always judged and not the man? Why is a man congratulated for telling 5 women he really likes them and wants to have some sort of relationship, just to get them into bed? But if a woman does the same she is a slag, slut, prostitute, etc.Honestly, whether CEO, cleaner or prostitute, I try to be polite and courteous to all women, unless they are rude to me :) You never know what people have been through, and what they are going through.
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  2. Thais in general , are very derogatory to dark skin, racist to Myanmar , next Indiana’s , Arabs and don’t like Chinese , even with many Thais looking like Chinese . On the flip side, they look up to whites as superior and rich, even if a white guy is an unemployed dole bludger or lives off social security.So, apart from this, Thai women in general are stereotyped as women who are just after your money and sex is certainly easily available. Now this is partly true. In fact, single decent men are ashamed to tell family and friends in Australia that they are going to Thailand. In general. For fear of being branded perverts.One thing I have encounted is white guys are in huge denial that they are favoured and looked up to because of Thai perception of skin colour while at the same time, lapping it up to full advantage.
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    • Thais can be racist, as can anyone else. I have been racially abused in Thailand, but also in the UK. And I'm white. But Thailand is a largely homogeneous, insular society and therefore you would expect a different perspective - and they wouldn't view their views as necessarily racist. For example, they think Indians, in general, smell bad and are stingy. This stems from encounters with Indian tourists. They think the Chinese are rude and primitive; again, this stems from encounters with mainland Chinese people and the horror stories detailed in the press. They tend not to like Arabs because they treat women badly and are Islamic (remember Thais have all grown up with the Southern insurgence). Is this racism or just stereotyping a race/culture based on experience? I think the lines can blur here depending on the type of society you have grown up in."On the flip side, they look up to whites as superior and rich, even if a white guy is an unemployed dole bludger or lives off social security."I think this is only true for a certain sector of society. Maybe for a naive girl from the provinces who lands in Bangkok with only movies and stories of other women marrying rich white men as a reference. And for such a woman, from a poor background, even a monthly social security cheque is a steady and comparably good income. But for a middle class Thai, or one with a half-decent upbringing and education, they are fully aware that not all "white" people are wealthy, and indeed they may be much wealthier than "old whitey">
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  3. I was adopted from Thailand at six weeks old, by white Swedish parents and brought up in Sweden, now residing in the UK. I hate how men judge you, was sexually harassed by men from all race groups, especially when blacks and muslims etc would shout racist, when it suits them. Hypocrites. I've had some retarded comments, but having friends who lean to the right of politics, I've learned to answer a retarded question with a retarded answer. PERVERTS!!!!
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  4. I think the West (as a whole) may be a civilization obsessed with race. If you look at the western art, they've been idolizing their likeness in the stone and bronze sculptures for millennia. No other advance culture did this.Anyway I just want to point out that the Thais, despite their cultural preference of white skin, are one of the most non-racial society I've ever seen in the world. I mean "Thai" is not a race, that word just denotes the nationality, not a racial markers. The Thais never discriminate among themselves whether they are of Chinese origins or of ethnic Mon, Lao or Khmer (Isaan people). If you think about it, 90% of the sex workers in Bangkok and other tourist destination in the country are Isaan people. In any other country, this fact will doubtless lead to ethnic shaming. But in Thailand, Isaan people are just folks at the lower income ladder. Central Thais people think of Isaan folks much like the way Americans call poor white in the South "redneck" or "Dixie."Like you said, white Europeans tend to have strong biased against colored or ethnic sex workers. I believe one of the reasons why Thais have such a great tolerance toward prostitution or the sex industry is because of the lack of racial distinction/discrimination/awareness in their society. They don't see that "otherness" in the poor sex workers.The other reason is probably the buddhist culture which emphasize the responsibility of one's own action. Devout Thai Buddhists know that they are not responsible for the prostitution because they do not participate in it. It's the (white or Japanese) tourists who buy services from the girls. At the same time, Thais view poverty as resulting from bad karma (in past lives) and feel that the poor sex bar girls did not have much choice either. So they tend to refrain from judging other.
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  5. Thais are not prudish anymore in sexual matters. Youngsters date, experiment, wear skimpy clothing clothing and on a world scale there is definitely a sexual energy about the whole nation.Regarding the p4p scene, you mentioned the 3 red light districts targeted towards foreigners in BKK, but forgot to mention the huge scene there is for Thai males where brothels are a plenty in every city and a town that surely has the largest red light district in the world in Pattaya.Now whilst I do not think any of that is bad necessarily, I do think you are panting a picture of Thailand in your mind that is simply not the reality.
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  6. Great article! And you make some very good points. I too have always found it rather ironic that Thai women get such a bad wrap when its the European women who are running around topless on the beaches in Thailand while most Thai women will often swim in street clothes. In fact in the old days I rarely even saw bar girls in bikinis on the beach. And I had a heck of a time convincing some of my past Thai girl friends to wear a bikini at the beach for the first time in their lives. As you know this is due to a combination of being very modest and not wanting to “ruin” their coveted white skin. My last girlfriend even used that damn skin whitening cream on her face.Anyway, I occasionally run into these type of stupid ill informed people here in the States as well. But then again there are always going to be people in any country who have gross misconception about just about anything or anyplace in the world and who love to spread these misconceptions far and wide. It’s just human nature I’m afraid. But I don’t think the majority of people are like this. It’s just that his particular minority is a very vocal one.As for there being more prostitutes in Japan than Thailand you are probably right. You have to remember however that perception often trumps reality and in Thailand the prostitutes are just much more on display than probably anywhere else in the world. In Japan on the other hand you never see prostitutes on the street or in dance clubs and bars. In fact, in the 5 years I lived in Tokyo - going out all night practically every night - I don’t think I ever came across anyone who worked in the sex industry. Well, actually I did once meet Ijima Ai, a major Japanese celebrity at the time and a former adult video star. Also there are actually TV shows there that go around to the various houses of ill repute in the same way a show here in her USA might show you around some of the better eateries in the city. The Japanese are just not as up-tight about sex or the human body as we are here in the puritanical West. Japanese people look upon sex as just a normal natural human function, like eating or sleeping. Sex without guilt or shame. What a concept!
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  7. Well... Due respect to westerners. I guess it is the strict asian value culture had imparted us of living in wise manner comparing to much independent for westerners. Which is why you find the general Thai ladies and also speaking for all asian were not as open minded as the westerners.I have 1 stereotypes question, What do you think about preferences for Thai girls, says if they want to married a foreign man, would they prefer the westerns or even other Asian who are in appropriate status, for e.g 1st world of Asia country like the one in Singapore?
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    • I guess this comes down to how financially and emotionally independent the woman is. If she is not looking for financial security then she will choose by preference of looks, race, etc. If she is just looking for a faithful man who is financially stable, then she will look beyond her personal physical preference and instead focus on those attributes.
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    • We are many adopted, who grew up in Europe, America etc. Stop fcking judging. Daribg a Rhai man eould be like getting to know a new culture, unless he also was adopted. dont judge. proud adopted, married to a white englishman who is 4 yrs younger than me and our kids are mixed race. And by the way, our country was never colonised by the west so please dont colonise ours. Yes, i might be a luk kreung/half thai, havent got a clue. Half Thai by culture and upbringing, definitely!!!
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  8. If you’re a man who’d like to meet and date Asian women for friendship or marriage, you’re definitely not alone. The Asian woman, with her beauty and traditional values is very desirable, especially to a society that seems to be losing its way with happiness in relationships. Not many will argue this fact as divorce rates go through the roof, and men seem to be more miserable than ever..
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  9. Hi. Everything you say is so true. Thank you. There is now a lot of us who really know and who understand. I think the world will change its attitude in future. Market dynamicss/economies are changing. Those who know little will always be left out and we women won't be offended/hurt by them who knows so little. With Westerners putting us in boxes, their in for great surprises.Thank you. I enjoy your blogs just found them today. Keep it up.
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  11. Hi, found your article in 2013, you wrote it 2010. Thank you for writing it. Very relevant. Im Filipina, married to an Englishman. We're both professionals, educated, met on a corporate Environment. He is a good man. tidy, not drunk, down to earth, sociable and quiet. I am quiet, but I have my opinions and very strong intact beliefs. Hardly submissive. I read loads of books from Tolstoy to Tolkien to Follet. Yet, I have gone through the same issues having married an Englishman. When I wasn't yet married to an Englishman, I have never felt like I had to justify to people that no I have not been or not worked in the bar and no have not even had a young life of non-stop disco and such. Yes please can you address me as we'll I am here situations in restaurants or hotels. But it is how it is. Best put "The single story creates stereotypes, and the problem with stereotypes is not that they are untrue, but that they are incomplete. They make one story become the only story. How stories are told, who tells them, when they’re told, how many stories are told — are really dependent on power. Stories matter. Many stories matter. Stories have been used to dispossess and to malign, but stories can also be used to empower and to humanize. Stories can break the dignity of a people, but stories can also repair that broken dignity.” — Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie. Thailand women, us Filipina women (and other Asian nations like Vietnam) have somehow had to live under the ghost of past history. Vietnam wars and the GIjoes and such. The only way to uplift your wife and break down all those barriers is, whenever your with friends and company, make your best effort to introduce your wife with true chivalry. Always introduce them politely/professionally when your checking in at hotels. "Myself and my wife would like to check in". A western man checking in hotels without introducing their asian wife is always assumed she is part time--yes ESP in Asia. It's worse. "Please would you take my wife's order first, thank you" in restaurants. There is so much achieved in these little ettiquettes and manners that you can do for your wife to help her break down these stereotypes and help her not lose her confidence. A lot of Asian women who married westerners have a lot of these issues to deal with --both sides. You say your from Thailand and you get looks. Same for us Filipina women. What matters at the end of the day is that your true love, respect and pride for your wife always shows to wherever you are and whoever your with. I have come to a point where I jokingly say ..,yeah I met him in a bar ...to shut people off. There are too many stereotypes to fight in this world. But stupidity is hard to fight. We can only keep telling real stories about Thailand eg to make the story better and not degrade Asian women. In Dubai, western women are incredibly liberated its shocking. I thought I'm liberated enough. Yet we get to be thought of as bargirls as soon as we marry a white man. I fell in love with my husband because he reads books, he plans, hes' decisive, he's independent, less emotional, things that are hard to find with asian men because of our culture (Not all-i have 2 brothers). All these bar stereotypes are so for the uneducated lot. When you hear someone make these jokes again..tell them they are degrading people. “Show a people as one thing — as only one thing — over and over again, and that is what they become.” — Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
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    • Thank you for your post KC. It's interesting to get a perspective outside of Thailand from a Filipino lady who has had to overcome the same stereotyping Thai women do. Your tips on chivalry certainly ring true. I often command respect for my wife by doing just the things you cite, and it usally gets the "Oh, you are married" look. I think it also confuses westerners and Thais when they ask my wife's age and they find out she is the same age as me, and that she also graduated from University, has her own business and is capable of supporting herself financially....oh, and has children and no previous western boyfriends. What confuses them even more is that she comes from humble beginnings too. People, particularly westerners, love to put people in boxes; it makes it easier to dehumanize and abuse people when they are just hookers, drug dealers, fraudsters, unhygienic, terrorists...the list goes on.
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  12. For what its' worth here is my opinion...I live in Thailand and I am married to a very nice Thai lady, and yet when I go back to Canada it is the women there that really seem to hate Asian women the most.I have heard that the only reason that I like Asian women is due to the fact that they are so submissive... which says two things. One, I am overbearing man who must be awful to be with and second any Asian girl with me is because she is dominated by me... and yet not one of these women have ever spent a moment in Asia.I cannot say I like just Asian women and the race of my wife matters not to me, I love her for her, not for race. But I will admit that generally speaking Thai women have better manners and are much more feminine than the average North American woman these days. That may be why so many men are attracted to them. Many western people only have stereotypes to run on as very few of them travel and see the world. Those who do, do not say such drivel.But, as you touched on, many westerners see the other peoples of the world as crass representations of humans, not really, true humans. That attitude is easily explained through centuries of conquest and domination. Much easier to do when you are exploiting rag-heads or wogs, not other humans... This attitude still persists to this day, and I see it often when back home.
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    • You hit the nail on the head Rob -Many westerners see the other peoples of the world as crass representations of humans, not really, true humans. That attitude is easily explained through centuries of conquest and domination. Much easier to do when you are exploiting rag-heads or wogs, not other humans.It makes me laugh when people assume my GF is a subservient little Asian woman, when in fact, while she is polite, courteous and respectful, she never accepts any disrespect from me and is strongly opinionated. In short she is an individual, but that's what people can't handle, "that those Thai women" could actually be strong minded individuals, with normal jobs and lives not disimilar to theirs. My fellow Europeans find it much easier to cast aspersion, to generalise and to judge with only the hearsay of sociapathic men coming back from sex tours as a reference point. But then it doesn't surprise me; we have been dominating and dehumansing people for centuries and seem to have a thirst for this sort of thing. I have heard expats who have lived in Thailand for years refer to Thais as "monkeys", "thick", "stupid" and worse..and the names for women, I won't even get in to. This sort of person will sit there and tell you exactly what Thais are like and what Thailand is all about, yet ask them a question pertaining to Thai history, or even ask them to say something other than "aroy mak mak" in Thai, and they haven't a clue.Thanks for reading!
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  13. Slight error: So how and why did the Thai female come to be seen in this light? Largely because of the Vietnam War, actually. To simplify the story, American forces had a huge presence in Thailand during the war, and carried out 80% of air strikes on North Korea... Should be North Vietnam! :)
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  14. The short answer, sorry, lazy day. Everyone does it, not saying it is right. In Isaan western men are all looked on as lazy, drunk, dimwitted, yobs. That's because many are just that. Thai friend have told me the stories and the things many Thais think about Westerners, can't say as I blame them. Many educated Thai women are divorced from their Thai husbands because they are even bigger wankers than their western counterparts.Gotta go to lunch. sorry, thanks for the space--tom
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  15. It's hard for me to reply to this one without sounding like a hypocrite. Why? well although it pains me to say it, before my first trip to Thailand I knew very little about the country and if I'm honest, I was guilty of sharing those same stereotypical views mentioned in your post. Now, a few years down the line, being married to a Thai and with at least some experience of the"real" Thailand, it makes me cringe to think that I could have allowed myself to be so ignorant. Having said that. I think its hard to blame this view that westerners have of Thailand because the press do nothing to discourage it or set the record straight. Unless you actively seek out information on the "real" Thailand through blogs like this, then the public are fed the same old bullsh#t churned out by the western media day in day out. I only ever seem to see two views put out there by the western press. One being the "picture perfect" beach destinations found in the travel segments of magazines or Sunday newspapers. Another being the lazy journalists that concentrate on the easy target of "sex tourism". More often than not the two go hand in hand and become the ONLY stories coming out of Thailand. One example which springs to mind was the TV series "Big Trouble In Thailand" shown in the UK a couple of years ago. Maybe you've sen this on youtube? Anyway it was the usual "Brits abroad" stuff. Mainly filmed in Pattaya & Patong and did nothing but fuel the stereotype. To be fair, the title says it all and it has never claimed to be anything else. Without wanting to justify the ignorance of the viewers, with rubbish like that being pumped out its easy to understand where the perceptions come from. What worried me even more. After this series was repeated recently, there was a thread about it on one of the most popular travel website forums. Some of the responses claiming that this was such a good show were just scary and I genuinely think that these people believe this type of show to be a true representation of what Thailand is all about.More recently, with my wifes UK settlement visa application fast approaching, these views have started to become a real concern for me. I can laugh off most things said in jest and my sense of humour has certainly been put to the test since becoming involved with my wife. But my concern is that these views will affect how my wife is treated over here in the UK. As much as we like to believe we live in a multicultural society and as much as people like to say "I'm not racist but.....", well I'm sorry but I'm honestly not sure how true that really is. I am in no way ashamed of my wife, infact I couldn't be more proud. But I hate the fact that as soon as I mention that my wife is Thai, without fail I can guarantee that there will be some comment about ladyboys or "luv you longtime" jokes. Unfortunately the media are always going to write about and push whatever sells. The public are naturally going to lap it up. Maybe I'm wrong and putting too much blame on the west? Maybe Thailand needs to take the lead and clean up its act? But as it stands I really can't see a solution to this issue and I think the stereotypical view of Thai women and Thailand in general will continue as it has for years.Cheers Steve
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    • I think before I came here i too would have been on auto response with a ladyboy or thai bride joke if someone said they were going to Thailand. It's conditioning I guess...and really negative and hurtful to those with a Thai wife, thai children and thai friends - yet the majority of comments aren't personal, just pre-programmed. I am sure when your friends meet your wife they are like, "she is so nice, you are really lucky...etc". The same programming now exists for Muslims all over the world, no doubt if I married a girl from a muslim family I would hear some "terrorist" related jokes.The ladyboy jokes i can get passed, but the "luv u long time" "thai women are prostitutes" stuff is very offensive. it's like if someone says, "did your gf work in bar". How would the person like it if I said, "No, was your mum a hooker?" My GF is Thai and one of my best female friends is Thai, so I do get offended on their behalf of sweeping generalisations based on a few red light areas.Sensationalising and sex sells, and the western media is built on the "look what they do over there" foundation. If I wrote stories about conquests with Thai women on here everyday I would get 10x the traffic to my site. Thailand is changing though, the economy is growing as the West declines....personally i think Asia is the place to be, and 20 years from now i think this stereotyping may have faded somewhat in the wake of less corruption, less sex tourism and better economic conditions - or am I in a dreamworld..?
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