The majority of expats move to Thailand to escape things that annoy them about their homeland.
These things usually relate to lack of freedom: cold weather that keeps you stuck indoors, the rising cost of living, the expense of socialising, the inability to smile at someone without being classed as a weirdo, the list goes on…
But nowhere is perfect.
Every country has it's positive and negative points, and Thailand is certainly no exception.
Many quickly realise that the grass isn't always greener on the other side and end up moving back home with a year or two.
Others love it so much they never look back, while some remain torn between two worlds, regularly weighing up their options through good and bad times.
So what are the most popular reasons for staying and leaving Thailand? What would you miss and what would happily leave behind? I asked a group of 10 expat friends, and here's what they came up with:
What Expats Would Miss About Thailand:
- 7-Eleven – open 24 hours, on every street corner.
- Hot climate.
- Great beach getaways on your doorstep.
- Cheap food, and good restaurants – when you need them.
- Beautiful women everywhere.
- Smiley, positive people with a zest for life.
- Great, affordable private health care.
- Awesome cinemas.
- Great malls and market shopping.
- Fantastic public transport (Bangkok).
- The rural simplicities of day to day life (for those living upcountry).
- Rich, diverse culture (temples and regional traditions, etc).
- The low cost of living.
- Not being taxed to death.
- Never getting a cold.
- Having a nanny.
- The constant availability of fresh fruit and vegetables.
- No speed cameras, traffic wardens or parking charges.
- The “you do your thing and I'll do my thing and we'll both be OK” attitude.
- The ability to walk almost anywhere, safely, 24 hours a day.
- Affordable massages.
What Expats Wouldn't Miss About Thailand:
- Visa and immigration bureaucracy.
- Rip off taxi and tuk tuk drivers.
- Bad driving, traffic (Bangkok), and general road safety standards.
- Dodgy pavements.
- Dangerous electrical wiring and general bad workmanship.
- Fake smiley people.
- General corruption.
- Poorly trained bank staff.
- Bad internet connections.
- Foreign sex tourists who give decent expats a bad name.
- Thai obsession with uniforms and whistles.
- 1970's health & safety attitudes.
- Garbage in Bangkok.
- Soi dogs roaming and pooping everywhere.
- The burning of the fields in the North of Thailand that happens once a year and pollutes the air.
- The poor acting in Thai soap operas.
- Unnecessarily being prescribed multiple types of pills by the doctor.
- Bad car mechanics.
- Lack of good places to play football.
- The “It doesn`t matter (mai bpen rai)” attitude when something really does matter.
- The ever-present threat of a political coup.
What gets on your nerves in Thailand? What do you miss about home? What do you love about the land of smiles and what would you hate to go back home to?
Add your would miss and wouldn't miss list to the comments section below…
Last Updated on
michael scott says
Wow, you guys take these matters very seriously. Lots of complex ideas. Makes very interesting reading though.
Try Buriram rather than Bkk and leave politics far away!. Life is slower and less hassling. We still get vintage NZ cheddar and wholegrain bread from our Robinsons or Big C. We have a Thai run open air steak restaurant where we get a great fried chicken or pork steak and delectable french fries for 40 baht! With a beer from 7-11! Bliss. Then we have many good Thai restaurants either open air or with a/c and are spoilt for choice of coffee shops serving first rate coffee.
Nothing boring about life ‘up country’ especially in a University town that is buzzing with students. A lot too many motor bikes makes car driving an exercise in concentration. Internet here is perfect.
All the best, Mike Scott
Oct 08, 2016 at 3:26 pm
TheThailandLife says
You have a good football team down there by the looks of it too. Not forgetting the race track!
Oct 08, 2016 at 3:52 pm
richard nash says
Hi Mike Scott, my wife and i are soon to leave for a few years roaming, never been far North of BKK yet and was interested in your comment on Buriram, but it seems to be a province, and not a town. Can you recommend a town in particular, the steak house sounds interesting??
Jun 19, 2017 at 4:47 pm
mike scott says
Hi Richard Nash, Buriram is also a town as well as a province. It is fairly small and not really for the tourist. One small, pretty forest park on the only hill outside Buri with a golden Buddha makes a nice place to watch the sun set over the endless flat lands mainly farmed for rice. Nice hotel / restaurant is Thada Chateau and Cafe de Bu where the Thai chef serves superb Thai and European food. Every dish I have tried is a pleasure to eat.
The steak place is near the Bus Station with another on Main Street opposite Jimmy’s bar where you can get good UK food. Not much air pollution here, only noisy motor bikes!! Good luck with your trip. Mike Scott
Jun 19, 2017 at 10:35 pm
Ken says
I guess pretty much any westerner who has lived in Thailand for any length of time can certainly identify with the things on your list. Well, all except number one perhaps. That must be a U.K. thing because convenience stores like 7-11 have been open 24 hours a day here since the 70’s and in big cities they are pretty much on every street corner as well.
Come to think of it, number 15 also had me scratching my head a bit. Do expats really feel that they “never” get colds in Thailand? I never really thought about this before myself because I rarely get colds or the flu even here in California. I do know however that I caught one of the worst and longest lasting colds I ever had when in Thailand. And I also had a very bad case of the flu there once. Of course I cannot remember how close these events were to a flight so its possible I could have contracted them on the plane and it just took a few days for the virus to take hold.
In any case, if people really catch less, or no, colds while in Thailand I wonder what the reason could possibly be for this. After all they proved ages ago that cold weather has absolutely nothing to do with catching a cold. And in parts of the USA with very hot and humid climates year round people catch just as many colds as anyone else. So I wonder what could be different in Thailand. Perhaps Thais just wash their hands more often or don’t touch their faces as often as westerners do. After all this is the main way the virus spreads: you get it on your fingers and then you touch your eyes, nose, or mouth, often without even realizing it. On the other hand, stress can also weaken ones immune system so perhaps everybody is just less stressed out when living in Thailand. Who knows?
As for my own list of things I miss about Thailand, food would have to be right up there at the top of that list. Let me elaborate. The other day I came across some videos on YouTube of Walking Street in Pattaya and various other Thai bar girl areas in Thailand. Anyway, as I watched all the scantily clad women cavorting about it did absolutely nothing for me. In fact, I found the whole thing rather boring. But then my heart suddenly skipped a beat and I was filled with giddy excitement. So just what was it the piqued my interest? Was it some exotic beauty, the likes of which I had never seen before? Not quite! Actually I had just spotted some food carts off in the distance and it got me thinking about all delicious Thai foods I could eat if I were there. Most guys are fantasizing about the women and I’m fantasizing about the food. That should clue you in as to just how much I miss good Thai food.
At the moment however I am thinking more about what I am going to miss about California as I am planning on moving back to Thailand, possibly for good. So here are the top things I will miss.
1) The weather.
When you grow up in an idyllic Mediterranean climate such as that of Southern California you really get rather spoiled climate wise. It just makes it hard to adjust to places with high humidity, very cold winters, or a lot of rain. In fact, one of the reasons I left Japan was because I got tired of all the rainy days, the hot humid summers, and the cold winters – mostly the rain though. Needless to say I would probably not last long in London or Seattle. And the Moscow weather would have me hanging from the end of a rope within a week.
Thailand on the other hand probably has just as many sunny days a year as California, which is great. Unfortunately it also has stifling humidity most of the time. I have actually adjusted well enough to the hot humid climate over the years so that I no longer find the spring and summer months unbearably miserable, but I still find them far from pleasant. And, in addition to feeling the need to shower or swim 5 times a day to cool off and to keep my skin from feeling so sticky, the heat and humidity also keeps me from doing most of the outdoor activities I enjoy here in California, like tennis, cycling, roller skating, and hiking in the mountains. I simply do not enjoy strenuous outdoor activities in humid climates. I have done some hiking in the mountains north east of Chiang Mai which I quite enjoyed but it still can’t compare to Yosemite or the giant redwood forests along the coast of northern California. Due to the low humidity the air is just so crisp and clean and everything in the forest smells and feels so great. Nothing smells of feels nice in high humidity climates though. The trade off of course is that I can swim and free dive everyday in Thailand, which I cannot do in California do to how cold the ocean temperatures are here (usually in the 60’s even in summer).
2) Driving a car
One of the things I missed most when living in Japan was driving but there was just no point owning a car in Tokyo. For one thing it would have cost about $300 a month to rent a parking space in my area, and even then it would not likely have been within walking distance of my apartment. And if your driving destination is in the city you will never be able to find a place to park when you get there anyway. Combine these issues with the fact that you can get pretty much anywhere faster by public transportation and you can see the futility or car ownership in Tokyo.
Of course Bangkok is not Tokyo and I will likely not be living in Bangkok anyway. So I have no problem driving in Thailand and in fact I have gotten very good at negotiating the hazards there on the road. And I don’t even mind having the steering wheel on the right side and having to shift with my left hand. But for some reason I always ride a motorcycle in Thailand and I don’t think I will be buying a car there. And even if I wanted to buy one I don’t think I could find any used cars at a reasonable price there that I would actually want to drive. I only like to drive lightweight nimble rear-wheel-drive sports cars with manual transmissions – kind of like the 3rd generation Mazda RX7 that I currently drive. I could find some great cars cheap in Japan and have them shipped anywhere in the world of course but unfortunately as a foreigner I am not allowed to import a vehicle to Thailand.
3) American Women (or Canadian or British for that matter)
I’m really going to miss having the kinds of conversations that I can only have with western women. Don’t get me wrong, I have had a lot of laughs with some Thai women but I just can’t engage in the same kind of witty banter and subtle flirtatious innuendo that I can with some women over here. If you don’t get what I’m talking about just go on YouTube and watch Craig Ferguson interviewing some of his more interesting, lively, and flirtatious female guests sometime.
I know that my writing style makes me sound rather serious at times but the truth is in real life I’m kind of a goofball and I try to never take life too seriously. Thus I need a girlfriend who can make me laugh as much as I make her laugh.
4) American TV
I really can’t emphasize strongly enough how much I HATE Thai television programming. And this is a shame because when I was in Japan watching Japanese TV shows really helped a lot with learning the language, and I really need to learn Thai. I just can’t stand the shows though. In fact Thai TV is my least favorite of every nation I’ve ever been to in Asia. There is hope yet however in that there are now ways to get American and British programming in Thailand.
Apr 22, 2016 at 4:43 pm
TheThailandLife says
Hey Ken, the colds thing is a strange one. Indeed, my friend, a doctor, explained exactly what you said regarding the weather. So I reckon you could be right on the lack of stress. But that doesn’t account for when I do get a cold here it seems to be very different from those horrid, nose stuffed up for says on end colds I get back home.
California is just a dream on a TV screen for me. I’ve never made it there but it’s a place I’d like to visit. I often wonder why people born on the coast in places like that want to live in Thailand. I guess it’s people that make places. If the people don’t do it for you, then no matter how sunny it is, you just won’t enjoy it. I’m really not cut out for the heat, sadly. I can bear it but due to skin issues I can’t be in the sun at all. So I usually wait until after 4pm, even when by the beach, to walk around. Happy to chill in the shade with a coconut and watch people go by though!.
I miss driving a car, but I get my fix outside of Bangkok when we travel and i hire one. I hate sitting in traffic in Bangkok, it really stresses me out. I have no desire to drive in this city and am more than happy to take my Uber cars where needs be.
The women: Well, I’m married, so I’m out the game, so to speak, but I hear your point. Even a lot of the well-educated, perfect English-speaking Thai women I know don’t get my English wit, hehe.
Thankfully we have a fair few English channels on the box, though I don’t watch much TV. When I do, it’s usually something on Netflix.
Apr 26, 2016 at 9:03 pm
Ken says
It sounds like your skin might be even more prone to sun damage than mine, and mine’s pretty bad in that respect. You see, both my mother’s and my father’s ancestors came over from England (sometime before the revolutionary war) so I inherited that pale English skin which burns quickly in the sun but doesn’t easily tan.
Still, since having a tan used to be so important where I live I eventually learned how to tan without burning. Basically I would have to lay out in the sun for a predetermined amount of time every day or so, gradually increasing my daily exposure over a period of 6 to 8 weeks or more. And to do this of course I had to know exactly how long I could stay out at a given time of day without burning at all (always before 10 or after 2 at first). Anyway once I finally had a good tan I was more protected so then I did not have to worry about burning when staying in the sun too long. After a friend of mine got skin cancer a few years ago though I decided that having a nice sun tan was probably not worth the risk.
As for why a Californian might want to move to Thailand I can’t really say because the truth is I never had any desire to live there permanently myself and am only considering it now due to a lack of retirement savings. If money were no object however I would stay right where I am, although I would also spend all my winters in Thailand. Well I might also spend every April and October in Japan. But that’s not going to happen unless I win the lottery, and since I don’t play that’s not likely.
By the way, it may be true, as you say, that the people make the place, but it is also true that the place makes the people. And this is why we tend to be able to communicate most effectively with those who grew up in a similar environment to our own (getting each other’s sense of humor, etc.).
Its also true that certain places tend to attract certain types of people. In fact I used to tell people that Japan, and Tokyo in particular, was like a giant magnet for every antisocial personality and mental defective in the entire western world. Don’t get me wrong, I loved living there, but a lot of the expats I met there were total jerks and @ss holes. In fact, I can think of at least 5 that I would classify as textbook psychopaths or sociopaths. And even the good ones were often just really screwed up in the head – people who thought that they could change their lives and leave their problems behind them by moving halfway around the world.
Ironically however, in Thailand, where I originally did not expect to like any of the western tourists or expats, I actually met some really great people who I really liked a lot. And many of these people I actually met in bars in places like Pattaya. I also noticed that while most of the Brits I met in Japan secretly (and sometime not so secretly) looked down on me because I was American, I got none of that from the Brits I met in Thailand. There was no underlying smug sense of superiority. They just treated me like everyone else. That’s not to say that there are not plenty jerks living in Thailand, because I’m sure that there are. But for some reason I’ve just had really great luck meeting really great people while there.
Anyway you should really try to get to California one of these days. I’m sure you would enjoy places like Santa Barbara, Big Sur, Yosemite, etc. Although I’m also sure that it would probably be a real headache trying to get a tourist visa for your Thai wife and kid.
Apr 28, 2016 at 5:30 pm
Kevin P says
I really like how you laid this out. So many posts either just so one side or the other. Well done, nice to see both sides at once.
Jul 03, 2015 at 7:26 am
Ampersand says
Cannot help myself writing this after stumbling across this site and reading Bibblies comments. I’m Thai, been studying and living in the UK for over 12 years. I feel at home in the UK but won’t have a problem of living in Bangkok where I was born and bred. When you talk about racism in the UK, your wife is lucky that she didn’t have to face any of that but I do. Am I occasionally treated as a second class citizen here? Yes, I am and you must be living in a cloud land to ignore the racism in the UK. The fact that it’s a mixed culture here in the UK, especially London, doesn’t make it less racist than Thailand.
TTL, your site is very knowledgable and the info is spot on. I agree with your comments and appreciate your view of life in Thailand.
Nov 10, 2014 at 12:36 am
bibblies says
There may be racism in the UK, as there is anywhere, but it’s not condoned or institutionalized.
Care to tell me where in the UK you’ve had to pay more at a private attraction because of your race? Imagine the outcry if a place even tried.
My wife has her name on our property deeds just the same as me. She can work in any field she likes. She has the right to live here and care by the NHS, the same as me. Next year she could have citizenship and a passport. I couldn’t have that any of that in Thailand. How’s that for second class citizen?
What racism have you faced? You say you’ve been living in the UK for 12 years and that you ‘feel at home’ here. Come on, expound on how you’re treated as a ‘second class citizen’ by the state in comparison to people born here. I bet the examples are pathetic by comparison or linked to treatment from a few individuals, not the entire force of state.
Nov 17, 2014 at 5:17 pm
TheThailandLife says
Oh Bibblies…Just a couple of interesting recent articles for you:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/27/-sp-racism-on-rise-in-britain
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/racism-on-the-rise-in-uk-with-1-in-3-people-admitting-prejudice-9443555.html
Nov 17, 2014 at 6:02 pm
Ampersand says
Bibblies, As you asked for an example, well, I paid tuition fees at uni 3 times more than home students because I wasn’t born here. I don’t see this as being treated unfairly by your government. It’s a business. The same as when you go to Thailand, it’s not about racism that you’re asked to pay more. It’s about you being ripped off.
I’m not going to reply point by point here because, quite clearly, you think you’re right and I’m not interested in educating you about the issue. You have your opinions and I have mine so let’s leave it as that.
Nov 19, 2014 at 5:20 am
bibblies says
Thanks for the reply but I asked for a proper example of racial discrimination, particularly by the private sector. For something like visiting Wat Pho or going to a public university, you can justify different fees because those are public facilities, partially funded by the taxpayers of that country already. For that reason, I don’t begrudge fees at these kind of places. But I do at private ones. I bet that you don’t sit down at a private restaurant and see different prices for the same dish on two menus like I have in Thailand. Or see different price lists at private gyms for Thais and farangs, like I do. You may say they’re just examples of rip-offs but they’re ones condoned by Thai society by the fact that you don’t have anti-discrimination laws or, basically, care. We, in the UK, do.
I’m not saying that Thailand’s the most racist country in the world but it is obviously worse than the UK. It’s absurd to suggest that the UK is just as racist when it allows you all the rights that Thailand doesn’t allow me. I live in a city where more than 50% of the population isn’t white. I hear more languages stepping out of the door and see more colours in 5 minutes than even a Bangkok Thai would in days. There are many mixed-race children and more black children. How on earth would my child even start to learn to be as racist as a Thai in a uniform 99% Thai environment?
I’ve never got into a taxi in London just after a driver has refused a black person’s fare with the driver then going off on a rant about black people. That happened so many times in Bangkok that I actually got used to it.
I’m not really interested in educating you about what it’s like to be a non-Thai in Thailand either. Suffice it to say that you couldn’t reel off evidence of the discrimination you’ve encountered in the easy way I can reel mine off. You’ve lived here 12 years, right? There should be loads!
It’s not surprising. You’re protected against that by the full force law in the UK compared to Thailand where tales of discrimination are met with a shrug. The fact that you’ve lived here 12 years happily tells it’s own story and I think you know that.
Nov 21, 2014 at 5:36 pm
Anon says
Yes Thailand is racist… I wish it was like that here in the UK. I really wished we put our people first.
Feb 14, 2018 at 3:28 pm
richard nash says
Bibblies, i think you make a fair point when you mention that foreigners and Thia people pay different entry prices to parks etc, that would be unacceptable in the UK, but i accept this is the way they do things in Thailand and thats fine with me, its just shame we cannot (UK) make our own rules and everybody else accept them for what they are instead of foreigners trying to change our way of life all the time to suit their needs..
Ampersand, i will agree that racism is unacceptable, but this goes both ways and albeit some name calling in the street, i think anybody from any country has been the victim of this, i for one in Australia was called names countless times by ignorant Aussies, but this is part and parcel of being in another mans country and we just have to rise above it unfortunately..
As long as their is no violence involved its just stupid people being stupid…guess what, they’re everywhere!!!
🙂 🙂 🙂
Jun 19, 2017 at 5:23 pm
bibblies says
Ah, it wasn’t ‘schmo’. When I was thinking about the feeling of difference I was thinking of the bit in Goodfellas when Henry Hill’s out of the mafia and has been located by the witness protection scheme to some dull surburbia where he’s just like everyone else:
“And that’s the hardest part. Today everything is different; there’s no action… have to wait around like everyone else. Can’t even get decent food – right after I got here, I ordered some spaghetti with marinara sauce, and I got egg noodles and ketchup. I’m an average nobody… get to live the rest of my life like a schnook”
Same stuff with the Thai food here! So back in the duller but more fair and stable UK right now, I’m getting to live the rest of my life like a schnook.. 😉
Sep 24, 2014 at 2:29 pm
bibblies says
Back in Thailand for a while recently, some more things I didn’t miss:
The heat. How ‘hot climate’ (meaning being unable to step outside for more than a few minutes without being drenched in sweat) is a thing to miss for anyone, I don’t know.
The nannying. I notice a free bet offer on one of my accounts and start to log in to take advantage, only to find the banned message. Thailand doesn’t trust its citizens to act responsibly with regard to gambling or drinking (no buying in the 2-5pm window)… or voting, I suppose.
Oct 31, 2014 at 10:39 pm
TheThailandLife says
Bibblies! I trust you enjoyed your break.
I agree the heat isn’t pleasant in the hot season, particularly not in Bangkok. I have skin cancer in my family so when I’m by the sea I tend to go out around 3.30pm when it’s cooler.
I am not a gambler so the latter doesn’t affect me, but you could just get a VPS. I got a year subscription for less than 15 quid. I wrote about that here: https://www.thethailandlife.com/vpn-thailand-law-risk-solution
Nov 01, 2014 at 1:34 pm
bibblies says
“if I wanted to I could buy a house; there are plenty of developments now where foreigners can buy.”
That’s a bit of a sad sentence that kind of helps my point. 😉 That you’re allowed to buy a carefully selected 0.0025% of the property in a country (the scraps?)… as long as there remain 51% natives in the same development and whatever hoops there are.
In the UK, Thais are allowed to buy anything they like. That’s as it should be. The UK is an open country. Lots of different nationalities own ‘our’ land. Which brings me to this:
“I’m glad your wife hasn’t encountered any racism, but you and I both know the UK is a very racist country.”
I assume you’re joking here. London has a majority non-white population for a start! The UK is an imperfect but pretty free open country, a melting pot where foreigners of every colour are free to live, buy land, have their own companies and work (in any profession they like, unlike Thailand). And it values the principles of fairness and openness and tolerance.
On the other hand, anyone who lives in Thailand will soon notice the casual racism, the open sniggering and racist talk and behaviour. To be fair, Thailand may be at a point where the UK may have been in the 1950s or 60s, when the first black immigrants started to come in force. They simply haven’t got as many immigrants. They didn’t go to school with people from different countries. But on top of that, Thailand is a feudal nationalistic country that discriminates on skin colour and nationality and backs up the attitudes in law. It’s a place where police chiefs say of tourist murders “A Thai can’t have done this” before even starting to investigate. Attitudes may get better if they open up and allow more foreigners in with the same rights and the kids mix in the schools but right now it reminds me more of the UK when the faces and accents were all of the same white colour.
“it has taken me 11 weeks to get my daughter a British passport, and it still hasn’t arrived – I got her Thai passport in one hour”
That’s to do with you being in a different place (and not as many Thais requiring passports). It takes 2 months to get just an appointment with the Thai embassy to get a child passport here. Then another 6 weeks to get the passport if everything’s OK.
“For me, life is about people, not governments who care only for economic growth, taxes and supporting big corporations to prop up their elitist lifestyles.”
Again, you’re joking right? Don’t you remember Thaksin? He’s the most obvious example but the rich elite in Thailand have always managed the government to benefit their businesses. They stifle foreign competition to do this, shamelessly stoking the fires of nationalism among the masses to do so. If there is no level playing field, no foreign competition, their companies can do and charge what they like. And it’s worse for poor talented employees because foreign companies are more likely to promote on merit rather than for other reasons.
What opportunities are there in Thailand for the poor? I suggest they’re much worse than in the UK, where at least the poor have a chance.
“My daughter will understand that each country has its rules, and whether we agree or not, as a guest, I do not have the same privileges as a native. ”
So in effect you’ll be condoning the racism. How do you answer if she finds out that other countries, such as the UK, don’t discriminate against foreigners?
“The large majority of Thai people are friendly, gentle and generous.”
No more so than the average country (and perhaps less, judging by the way they drive 😉 . Nothing gentle or generous about not giving way to pedestrians at crossings or making way for ambulances, I notice!)
“I absolutely agree regarding the exploitation of cheap labour. I would not employ a nanny,”
But you put it down as a plus, along with cheap massages. And you still live there, enjoying the benefits and, in effect condoning it (along with the coups every few years;) ) You can’t avoid that!
A reason you missed on the ‘missing Thailand’ which I think applies to a lot of people, if they’re honest, is that Thailand makes them feel special. You walk on the streets, you’re different from most of the rest. You’re taller than most people on the skytrain. Women smile at you. You’re a rogue living in an exotic foreign country whereas you’re just an average schmo in your native land. But let’s not kid ourselves about the real merits of the countries.
Sep 23, 2014 at 4:05 pm
TheThailandLife says
I notice you didn’t address any of those “home” truths.
I lived in London for 30 years, and still go back regularly. I put it to you that you are “joking” if you think London is one big, happy melting pot. It may be less racist that other parts of the country, but just because niceties are exchanged in public doesn’t mean ignorance isn’t thriving behind closed doors and through whispers.
You are trolling me here because you know full well the UK is run by a racist, war-mongering, oppressive Westminster elite and aristocracy. Do you read the papers? Do you not witness the daily fear spread about the arrival of immigrants and the spread of islam?
Racism exists in every country. Ignorant people exist in every country. Surround yourself with those whose ethics and morals align with your own.
How am I condoning racism by explaining to my daughter that I don’t have the same land buying rights as a native? This is an economic policy set by government to stop the colonisation of Thailand by greedy Europeans who want to own everything the “brown people” have and make it better!
Using your method of assessment, by living in the UK, you condone everything from slavery to murder and child abuse on a global scale. Honestly, if we took to the history books over a cup of tea, you’d soon be hiding your union jack socks.
…By the way, this isn’t my list or my answers. These are the answers collected from a group of people, if you read the post.
I am not one to care if women smile at me or not. I enjoy a pleasant exchange of manners and friendliness anywhere I go, but the reality is that I’ve never had a problem dating wonderful women in my country, nor any other for that matter. I’ve always been taller than most people back home, too – so I have no short man syndrome to overcome in Asia. I was never an average “schmo” back home either, quite the opposite. I didn’t come here to feel special or be admired. I came here to enjoy a period of my life; to learn and appreciate another culture, to meet great people and have new experiences.
Good day to you.
Sep 23, 2014 at 6:17 pm
bibblies says
I’m not trolling you.
I simply don’t agree with your left wing views. (Or say that the last point, of feeling different in an exotic country, applied to everyone, though I don’t regard it in a negative way anyway. I mean that in some ways you can feel more free and different in a foreign country, away from all your old culture. I like the ‘expat’ feeling myself)
I do genuinely think it’s interesting that, as a person of obviously left-leaning views, you’d go to live in a country where the inequalities seem to me to be far more pronounced, with the poor having far less chance to better their lives. Look around you. The army’s just taken over the country you’re in after the poor masses just voted for a government the rich and powerful didn’t want. Again! So the poor suffer more.
The UK’s a pretty nice and tolerant, if dull, place. Quite a few Thais here have remarked that they’re bewildered that we help foreigners ‘too much’ (in regard to benefits and even charitable donations to Africa!) Make of that what you will but to me it came as a surprise and another indication that we’re actually less racist. This isn’t strange. I grew up with lots of people of different colours and races in the playground and my daughter will grow up with more. That makes it far harder to be racist than if you grow up in an environment where it’s all one nationality, like in a lot of Thai schools. If my wife goes to an English country village, people don’t stop and stare at her and whisper. They don’t even notice her more than anyone else. Any expat will know that’s not true of Thailand. And every expat will have encountered more than one taxi driver pointing out black people and muttering about them.
The things I do miss about Thailand may be things you wouldn’t. I’ve thought of a few more:
1. No strikes on the skytrain or MRT. Hurray! (If you live in London these happen every year.) Too much union power.
2. Mangosteens and durian fruit.
3. Huge king prawns.
4. The right sauces and herbs in Thai food.
5. The feeling of having a clean bum after having gone to the toilet. (I can’t believe that the Western world is so far behind on this, still believing that just dry tissue paper could clean poo from your skin! I never feel clean going to a toilet here. 🙁 )
Sep 24, 2014 at 2:17 pm
TheThailandLife says
Bibblies! I am not left wing, or right wing, middle or of any other political persuasion.
I too went to a school of diversity and my friendship group today remains a mixed bunch, so to speak. I am constantly weighing up the pros and cons of schooling here, but one thing that concerns me more than exposing my daughter to racism is gender inequality. Women tend to be appraised first by their beauty over their talents or contribution to society. As a father, that troubles me.
I would also miss the bottom shower, and if I moved home I would have to get one installed. It’s hard to believe I ever wiped and smeared.
Sep 24, 2014 at 4:41 pm
bibblies says
I call them ‘bum guns’, although if you have to look them up on the Internet to buy they’re also known as ‘shower bidets’.
We got one installed very quickly so it’s fine at home. It’s just everywhere else I leave with the dirty feeling of dags 🙁
I can’t understand Westerners in this respect. Why would you not use water to clean away faeces? We don’t clean babies’ bums with dry toilet paper. We use water or wet wipes, for a good reason. So why stop the principle?
Thailand’s good when you have no responsibilities, gym and pool in the condo, etc, but when you have to plant roots, there are show-stoppers that make Thailand a no for me. Not being able to own your own property and the discrimination in law is a huge thing as is the lack of trust I have in its rule of law generally.
I also want my children to have a good education and learn good values right up to university and I think the UK is probably better for this. I don’t want mindless rote learning, discouragement of curiosity and teaching to kow-tow to people who don’t necessarily deserve respect . And, as you say, it’s worse for girls!
Sep 24, 2014 at 10:06 pm
Chris says
Actually most of your views are extremely left wing, surprised you can’t see that or willing to acknowledge it.
Jul 20, 2015 at 3:26 pm
Rinky says
You’re definitely very left-wing, judging by your little rant about the government, not to mention use of words like “diversity” as if it’s a normal conversational word – you sound like a social worker! Lol
Btw, there’s no such thing as race, that Victorian concept went out with phrenology and suchlike. The academic consensus is that only ethnicity exists and that humans are evolutionarily adapted to be ethnocentric, so all the moaning from you and bubbles is pretty pointless – people tend to look after their own.
Dec 03, 2015 at 11:15 am
TheThailandLife says
What is “left wing”? Is that a term given to those who believe in a fairer society and not the exploitation of people for profit? Nothing wrong with the majority of social workers; most do a wonderful job in helping children who’ve suffered neglect and abuse.
I don’t disagree with your last point. However, in the context of the conversation, I think you understand what we mean and are choosing to be pedantic.
Dec 03, 2015 at 2:37 pm
Chris says
So how’s that working out for you in the UK, the whole ANYONE can buy property law. Has that increased home ownership for UK citizens? Has it pushed ordinary citizens further away from the city because they can no longer afford to live there after some douche from another country has bought the place and stays in it all but a few weeks a year?
Jul 20, 2015 at 3:18 pm
bibblies says
It’s working out well, a lot better than it would in Thailand where I couldn’t really own a thing properly. Not everyone wants to live in the centre of a city. There’s plenty of green land here where I am, between a couple of parks and I’m near train stations if I wanted to go into the city – which I don’t, being from this century and working and shopping online rather than trudging in 😉
How’s it working out in Thailand, with that lack of equal rights and trust in the law? Has ecommerce got there yet, can you actually order stuff and expect it to arrive? 😉
Jul 20, 2015 at 10:26 pm
bibblies says
So you’re comfortable with your daughter growing up thinking that it’s fine to discriminate, that her father is some kind of odd second-class citizen who can’t own property and has to jump through hoops in business, always wary that any temporary privileges could be taken away at any point at the whim of a person in power? That it’s OK to not have democracy respected, coups every few days, that corruption is fine?
You’re kidding yourself about dirty truths. How can you write that with a straight face while living in a country under its second military coup in just a few years?! The UK is fine, thanks. My wife loves it here, because of its fairness. She got a settlement visa that didn’t force her to report to immigration authorities or leave the country every few months. Can you get one of those? Then she got a permanent residents permit. How about one of those? Are you ever going to be able to get one of those? And soon she’ll be able to get a passport and citizenship. You’ll never get the Thai equivalents.
Of course, there are plus points to living in Thailand, if you have money. If you look at some of the ones you’ve highlighted, that you can get cheap nannies, cheap good private health care, cheap massages…. a lot of it comes down to cheap labour and people being servants. That’s fine with me but does that make you comfortable, does it really sit well with your ideals? All that made possible because of lowly paid nannies, nurses, cleaners, masseuses? If those people were in your home country, they’d probably have had the education and fair opportunity to do better, get paid more.
Thailand’s a feudal unfair society. Good if I want a massage, a cheap private medical procedure or cheap labour but not something I’d like my daughter to grow up in.
30. Casual racism and discrimination. My wife hasn’t been subjected to any racism or discrimination here in the UK, hasn’t had to pay extra at tourist sites.
Sep 19, 2014 at 4:24 pm
TheThailandLife says
My daughter will understand that each country has its rules, and whether we agree or not, as a guest, I do not have the same privileges as a native. BTW, if I wanted to I could buy a house; there are plenty of developments now where foreigners can buy.
Anyway, like our British ancestors, I’m not here to force change or exploit the economy by buying up lots of cheap land from people desperate for money.
I’m not in any sort of competition with your wife regarding our visa statuses; but I am able to stay year for a year straight, which suits me right now. And luckily we have the option of educating our daughter in the UK. And luckily for her, she has the privilege of seeing both sides of life.
There are pros and cons to every country, depending on who’s running the show. For example, it has taken me 11 weeks to get my daughter a British passport, and it still hasn’t arrived – I got her Thai passport in one hour.
As for residency or a Thai passport, I’m not seeking that. I’m a British national / resident, and that shall always remain.
I absolutely agree regarding the exploitation of cheap labour. I am not comfortable with any of that. I would not employ a nanny, simply because it’s just wrong to employ someone to look after your kids who has kids of her own but can’t afford to raise them. Neither am I comfortable with the building slave trade all over Asia, nor the garment (sweat shop) making trade – but that doesn’t stop people in the UK and all over Europe demanding ever cheaper clothes and therefore encouraging this awful abuse.
But then I’m not comfortable with the foreign policy of the UK; the murdering and stealing. Neither am I comfortable with being ruled by a family who (some members) supported Nazi Germany, and who continue to engage in illegal wars and hunt and kill innocent animals for fun. There’s also plenty of examples of exploiting cheap labour in the UK; just go down to Brick Lane or China Town to see illegal immigrants working for cash in hand.
I’m glad your wife hasn’t encountered any racism, but you and I both know the UK is a very racist country. In fact, many of the Brits I encounter here are extremely racist.
But, at the end of the day, Bibblies, my experience of Thailand is a positive one of being made very welcome. For me, life is about people, not governments who care only for economic growth, taxes and supporting big corporations to prop up their elitist lifestyles. I have a wonderful rapport with the locals where I live, I have Thai friends and enjoy being a part of the community.
People are kind to me and I am kind in return.The everyday Thai people I encounter are no different to myself. They are simply getting on with life, trying to make the best of things and provide for their families. The large majority of Thai people are friendly, gentle and generous.
I don’t seek my happiness by comparing which government is less oppressive; I seek my happiness among real experiences, with real people on a daily basis, immersing myself in the one global consciousness that binds together this beautifully interdependent, interconnected world.
Have a great day.
Sep 20, 2014 at 12:33 pm
bibblies says
Don’t miss:
23. The generally infantile standard of TV.
24. Comedy that needs drum rolls and silly noises.
25. Lack of interest in nutrition, making it hard to avoid additives, find low sugar/low fat versions of foods and drinks and good oils.
26. Thais walking speed and blocking manoeuvres.
27. Not being able to walk up or down escalators.
28. The feeling of not being considered equal, not being able to own property, my own company, etc. How are you going to explain that to your child, TheThailandLife?
29. The strait-jacket of ‘face’, the self-destruction it causes, the waste of time and potential by not being straightforward and fair and considering each person on his or her merits. Not being able to be honest.
Sep 18, 2014 at 4:26 am
TheThailandLife says
I quite like those silly, sudden TV noises; it catches your attention and brings you into the present moment – almost spiritual in a way 🙂
28. I hear you on this…But, I know the deal, and if I don’t like it I know where the door is. At this point in time I don’t want to start a company here (my British friend owns his own company here BTW – it’s under some tech initiative whereby foreigners can own 100%), nor am I really interested in owning a property, largely because it’s not a good investment and I’d rather buy another back home. My daughter can buy land/property here, as can my wife. For me it’s about happiness; we’ll go wherever makes us happiest.
Thailand has its flaws, as does every country. The UK may hide its true nature behind liberal rhetoric, but one only needs to look behind the curtain to see the dirty truths.
Sep 18, 2014 at 10:17 pm
BlogDaz says
Some very good points, but I think the “would miss” outweigh the “wouldn’t miss”,
just like to elaborate on one point, the poor acting I can tolerate, but the goddam noise they make make shocking, it should be classed as noise pollution.
Mar 29, 2014 at 8:44 am
TheThailandLife says
I agree, and I think the “wouldn’t miss” things on the whole are far more tolerable than the things “wouldn’t miss” things back home.
Mar 29, 2014 at 12:36 pm
bibblies says
That’s why you two are still there! When you decide that the bad grates more than the good, you move! 😉
“Hot climate”? Meh, give me proper seasons. My wife likes them too. Actual weather!
“Great beach getaways on your doorstep.” OK. How about culture? You’re living in a wasteland there.
“Cheap food, and good restaurants – when you need them.”. OK, that’s the only big thing my wife misses.
“Beautiful women everywhere.” Hmmm.. not sure about that! You mean kinda-available looking ones who give you the time of day rather than blank you? If women are more friendly towards you, you’ll find them more attractive.
“Smiley, positive people with a zest for life.” Or who couldn’t care less?
“Great malls and market shopping.” And, to balance that out, NO internet shopping system to speak of at all. The cheapness of the internet, the choice, the convenience that my wife loves, hasn’t got to Thailand (vested interests and corruption making it difficult, I assume?)
“Fantastic public transport (Bangkok)”. Well, the skytrain and MRT are cheap, I’ll give you that. But there are only a couple of lines, with about 10 stations on each! London had more 100 years ago. Taxis? OK, you got me there 😉
“The rural simplicities of day to day life (for those living upcountry).”
Living upcountry is BORING! And the internet stinks.
“Rich and diverse culture (temples and regional traditions, etc).”
Come off it. Compared to Europe? ! No way.
“The low cost of living.” – Not everything. Just rent, a lot of food and labour.
“Having a nanny.” Isn’t that kind of exploiting people in a way? Just like bar girls?
“The constant availability of fresh fruit and vegetables.”. I miss durian but everywhere has different fruit. Try the price and quality of cherries or strawberries in Thailand compared to the UK, for example.
“No speed cameras, traffic wardens or parking charges.” – yeah, because Thais don’t need any of that, driving and parking so considerately?
“The ability to walk almost anywhere, safely, 24 hours a day.”. Nah. You just don’t pick up on the vibes like Thais do. I’ve blithely walked places where Thais have advised me not to. Thailand’s got a higher murder rate than my country. So you’re more likely to be murdered over there. Or die in a car accident.
“Affordable massages.” – again, exploiting cheap labour.
The “you do your thing and I’ll do my thing and we’ll both be OK” attitude.
In a way, that’s what I loved about Thailand at first. But then it starts to grate as things happen and you realise that what you thought was a great attitude can be a selfish abdication of responsibility or caring for others. Back in my home country, I realise that people are often nicer, fairer, more genuine. Even if they don’t smile much!
Sep 18, 2014 at 4:15 am